Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yukonica on July 28, 2015, 09:22:57 AM
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Bike has been running poorly. Then I noticed this one side has some sort of serious issue. Looks like a lot of fuel burning in the muffler on that one cylinder. Do I check valves? re-gap plugs? Re-torque the heads? Any and all comers welcome. Thank you.
(http://content.sitezoogle.com/u/59773/7d7386dd38e4e64469389d9bcf3719acda902777/photo/3280948.jpg?1438092874)
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Send that picture to your dealer. Looks like the cat is overheating. May be a fueling issue. Saw one here in May.
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Check the spark plugs. A misfiring plug can send raw fuel out which runs the converter very hot.
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I'd think you'd know if it was mis-firing for sure. I know I would.
Now running rich on one side could go unnoticed and do that.
Is this carbed or injected.
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Looks like a single TB Model V7. If it's under warranty I would take it in. Have it serviced, not just the oil changed. Have it checked for errors w/software.
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Send that picture to your dealer. Looks like the cat is overheating. May be a fueling issue. Saw one here in May.
I'll certainly send the picture down. I believe it is a feeling problem. Open the throttle quickly and the thing 'dies'.
There is a distinct smell of unburned fuel when shutting down after a ride.
Excuse my ignorance (and being too lazy to look up in the tech manual for the sake of this reply) where is the Cat located? can it be replaced?
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Check the spark plugs. A misfiring plug can send raw fuel out which runs the converter very hot.
Fresh plugs 4k (km) ago. not misfiring unless symptom is heavy stutter when rolling on throttle.
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Looks like a single TB Model V7. If it's under warranty I would take it in. Have it serviced, not just the oil changed. Have it checked for errors w/software.
Correct. 2013 V7 Special.
It technically is under warranty.
Dealer is a bit of a ride away. :)
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I'll certainly send the picture down. I believe it is a feeling problem. Open the throttle quickly and the thing 'dies'.
There is a distinct smell of unburned fuel when shutting down after a ride.
Excuse my ignorance (and being too lazy to look up in the tech manual for the sake of this reply) where is the Cat located? can it be replaced?
The cats are located inside each muffler. There was a member here who had a similar issue. With his new V7. Can't remember who it was.
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Have you made any mods, such as an O2 spoofer? It's pretty clear that you are getting too much fuel on one side. These bikes seem to run much better when left dead stock, particularly after getting the latest version of the factory flash. I seem to recall that GuzziDiag can now read the single throttle body ECU and at least pull any codes. As a last resort (and I really mean LAST) you could pull the ECU and send it to a REXXER dealer for a re-flash. I think they can read any error codes too.
Peter Y.
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I'd think you'd know if it was mis-firing for sure. I know I would.
Not really.
I have a single cylinder Honda. If the spark plug gets carboned up, it starts to do a very mild and almost undetectable misfire. It causes the exhaust pipes to glow bright red at night. Put in a new spark plug, the hot exhaust goes away.
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The cats are located inside each muffler. There was a member here who had a similar issue. With his new V7. Can't remember who it was.
Wasn't the issue a bad O2 sensor? Just go to the dealer and get it fixed, especially if it's under warranty.
Ken
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Have you made any mods, such as an O2 spoofer? It's pretty clear that you are getting too much fuel on one side. These bikes seem to run much better when left dead stock, particularly after getting the latest version of the factory flash. I seem to recall that GuzziDiag can now read the single throttle body ECU and at least pull any codes. As a last resort (and I really mean LAST) you could pull the ECU and send it to a REXXER dealer for a re-flash. I think they can read any error codes too.
Peter Y.
No recent modes. No spoofers.I bought Mistral shorties direct from Italy. They arrived without baffles. Ran it a fortnight without; hated it so ordered DB killers from AF1. Installed all. Power cycled the battery overnight. Made several attempts to like the short pipes (aesthetics are nicer in my view). Replaced the graphite gaskets on both stock and Mistrals. Re-installed the stock pipes, cycled the power and thought I was back to 'normal'.
All was good until I ran for a couple hours in a real drenching (drops bouncing back up 30cm). All has been schite since.
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Single throttle body , same ignition map for both cylinders , and no changes from stock , correct ?
Dusty
Yep. nothing
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Let's assume I can't do anything until winter. I can disassemble and send out whatever needs to be repaired.
The question I have is: what kind of damage can i do if (IF) I were to keep riding it in its current condition.
Could care less if the pipe burns out. I plan on going back to the Mistrals when a Map is available. I do care if I'm likely to burn up valves or something that isn't 'plug and play'. To ride or not to ride... That is the question.
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My 2014 did that, and it ended up being the plug cap not seated well on the wire. hasn't happened since the dealer fixed the issue.
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It's definitely burning fuel in the cat. The stuttering under acceleration will be it not firing every power stroke and then the u burnt mixture will be being pushed out and burning in the cat. It needs fixing.
My first guess would be plug, cap or HT lead. Make sure the HT lead is sitting firmly in both the coil and the cap is screwed on tight. Chuck a new plug in that side. If it's still hesitating under load we'll need to dig further.
Pete
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It's definitely burning fuel in the cat. The stuttering under acceleration will be it not firing every power stroke and then the u burnt mixture will be being pushed out and burning in the cat. It needs fixing.
My first guess would be plug, cap or HT lead. Make sure the HT lead is sitting firmly in both the coil and the cap is screwed on tight. Chuck a new plug in that side. If it's still hesitating under load we'll need to dig further.
Pete
Thank you... a free day on Saturday approacheth. I have new plugs in the drawer, I am sure the local Honda dealer will have HD lead, and possibly (only very very possibly) the Napa shop will have a cap on hand. Or I'll be freighting in parts from Texas. :)
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What was awesome for me was the tech went straight to the plug cap and checked it and it was loose. No head scratching, no looking at a manual or hooking up diagnostics. I am blessed with a great dealership with an excellent service department. Now if Luigi would get off his ass and send a new casting for the back of the transmission, all will be good with the bike.
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What was awesome for me was the tech went straight to the plug cap and checked it and it was loose. No head scratching, no looking at a manual or hooking up diagnostics. I am blessed with a great dealership with an excellent service department. Now if Luigi would get off his ass and send a new casting for the back of the transmission, all will be good with the bike.
Simple solutions are the best....
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What was awesome for me was the tech went straight to the plug cap and checked it and it was loose. No head scratching, no looking at a manual or hooking up diagnostics. I am blessed with a great dealership with an excellent service department. Now if Luigi would get off his ass and send a new casting for the back of the transmission, all will be good with the bike.
Awesom from the tech??....you sure are easily impressed. It was obviously running on one cylinder intermittently or permanently and putting fuel into the cat and burning it there.
It's not rocket science. The plug/ cap/ lead is the obvious first place to look.
Ciao
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Phil, it's obvious to people comfortable with engines and how they work and the ins and outs of *modern* technology like catalytic converters. Not everyone has these skills. That's why they go to a shop! It may well be obvious to us, it's hubris to think that everyone should share our skill set.
Pete
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Phil, it's obvious to people comfortable with engines and how they work and the ins and outs of *modern* technology like catalytic converters. Not everyone has these skills. That's why they go to a shop! It may well be obvious to us, it's hubris to think that everyone should share our skill set.
Pete
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/1.gif
And those of us at the entrance of learning these skills are immensely grateful to those who share their encyclopedic knowledge so generously.
You can bet that having been shown a solution once it isn't forgotten.
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We have had two V7 that exhibited what your bike was doing right out of the crate. On both the problem was ECM related. They replaced the ECM on both units. Right now Guzzi has the ability to rewrite the stock map through PADS so replacement should not be needed. I hope the tech hooked up to pads and verified everything is OK. Has he ordered the new exhaust? If service has been done on the bike in the past Guzzi will not be buying you a exhaust and look to the last person that pulled the plugs and failed to secure the cap.
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Phil, it's obvious to people comfortable with engines and how they work and the ins and outs of *modern* technology like catalytic converters. Not everyone has these skills. That's why they go to a shop! It may well be obvious to us, it's hubris to think that everyone should share our skill set.
Pete
I understand your point Peter, it's just if people are "amazed" by how brilliant the tech is by just doing the basic stuff the bar is going to keep getting lower, and if you've had a modern car serviced lately believe me it's already down there.
Ciao
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We have had two V7 that exhibited what your bike was doing right out of the crate. On both the problem was ECM related. They replaced the ECM on both units. Right now Guzzi has the ability to rewrite the stock map through PADS so replacement should not be needed. I hope the tech hooked up to pads and verified everything is OK. Has he ordered the new exhaust? If service has been done on the bike in the past Guzzi will not be buying you a exhaust and look to the last person that pulled the plugs and failed to secure the cap.
Hello Walter. That's really good information you've offered and I appreciate it. The dealer has been contacted for guidance but he is a very long way south of me. How far? Three 10 hour days driving. I live in the subarctic. Regarding the pipe; I wouldn't ask him to order one even if it is a warranty issue. It's hard enough for niche businesses to stay alive without having to incur unnecessary expenses. I plan to put Mistral's back on next year.
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Ah, the tyranny of distance. You should be able to source resistor caps & HT lead (copper cored) locally from those who handle small motors, but cheaper probably on the net - google NGK - even if you are just around the corner from a decent source, it's always good to have a little stock of the basics on hand. When you have issues, you gradually build up a small useful stash. For me, extra plugs, caps & HT lead are among them. I do note that the tank on my '14 V7S has rested lightly on LHS HT lead, enough to score the paint there, so I'm keeping an eye on it. On the V7C, both caps & one lead have been replaced over the course of its life so far.
I know what you mean about the Mistrals - these came on the V7S and are a lot louder & more raucous than the Staintunes I have on the V7C. I much prefer to more mellow purr/growl of the Staintunes.Think about it & watch the exchange rate - much more favourable to you blokes over the pond these days.
Best of luck,
Mal
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Experience and the ability to go to the heart of the problem with minimal clues IS a rare thing. We see it here consistently with a small handful of good brains, but both here and in the world those brains are few and far between. On a site like this one where those few are so willing and prompt with ''obvious" answers that aren't so obvious to the guy asking the question, we start taking it for granted. If those folks were to stop helping, we'd quickly see how few and precious they are.
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Experience and the ability to go to the heart of the problem with minimal clues IS a rare thing. We see it here consistently with a small handful of good brains, but both here and in the world those brains are few and far between. On a site like this one where those few are so willing and prompt with ''obvious" answers that aren't so obvious to the guy asking the question, we start taking it for granted. If those folks were to stop helping, we'd quickly see how few and precious they are.
You are so right. As one of those guys continually asking questions I freely express appreciation and gratitude for the generosity shared by you and others.
Quite frankly, with my limited knowledge and lacking access to any physical resource, owning a Guzzi would not have lasted past last year.
I could well have ended up selling it to buy a Honda or Yamaha as those are the only brands with business support up here. Not what I want to ride.
So, once more, this forum has pointed me in a direction to resolve a problem. I know what to do, will teach myself how to do it, and will grow as an owner. I'm grateful.
~ now the fun part: went to every possible parts source in town. No one sells HT plug wire for bikes, I can order in spark plugs by the 10, and the plug cap can be ordered singly for one fifth the OEM price... but is backordered until november. AND the Canadian dollar is in the toilet so cross-border shopping is 30% more expensive than a couple months ago.
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If it's a standard diameter plug wire with the core you want, just buy it from the bulk roll along with new ends and roll your own. There's nothing really special about m/c plug wire. If you're worried about the effects of the environment, run the wires through plastic tubing. I use the clear stuff so if there is a spark leak I can see it.
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I understand your point Peter, it's just if people are "amazed" by how brilliant the tech is by just doing the basic stuff the bar is going to keep getting lower, and if you've had a modern car serviced lately believe me it's already down there.
Ciao
The bike was running pretty well, just the occasional miss, and as I was just getting used to the bike,, I considered it might just be the fuel mapping, as I went through surge issues with BMW on the oilheads. I noticed the blue on the pipe, and nothing about the surging/missing.
There are way more horror stories about incompetence in motorcycle shops than stories about great techs. Good that you have nothing but experts where you live.
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~ now the fun part: went to every possible parts source in town. No one sells HT plug wire for bikes, I can order in spark plugs by the 10, and the plug cap can be ordered singly for one fifth the OEM price... but is backordered until november. AND the Canadian dollar is in the toilet so cross-border shopping is 30% more expensive than a couple months ago.
Can't you just order a metre of it on line? As for plug caps? Plugs are CR8EKB's aren't they? And the caps are about a 120* angle aren't they! Confirm that and I'll pick up some lead , plugs and caps for you tomorrow in Canberra and post 'em out. Probably take a week ten days to get from bumf*ck here to bumf*ck there but if you can't find anyone to ship shit to you from the U.S. I can do it from Oz.
Pete
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Can't you just order a metre of it on line? As for plug caps? Plugs are CR8EKB's aren't they? And the caps are about a 120* angle aren't they! Confirm that and I'll pick up some lead , plugs and caps for you tomorrow in Canberra and post 'em out. Probably take a week ten days to get from bumf*ck here to bumf*ck there but if you can't find anyone to ship shit to you from the U.S. I can do it from Oz.
Pete
Very generous offer, thank you. Hopefully Gord, where I bought the bike, will have something on hand. Over the long term I'm working on Malik's suggestion of stockpiling key components. Have just learned of a couple more pieces.
Yes on the plugs and cap as to model and angle. This is where little knowledge gets dangerous... :) ... Reading through NGK's website I find there are 9 options for lead wire. Three diameter 5, 7, 8mm and three core construction; copper, carbon, and mag core. The V7 appears to have carbon core. I'll measure the diameter this morning before work.
Not to detract from Harpers or AF1 but, man, they are getting hosed by Piaggio on the plug caps. OEM price is $32 each. Napa will order them in for $6 to me as a retail customer. As soon as I know the thread size and resistance rating of the stock piece I'll buy a few. Short term: I'll buy one OEM and live with the pain.
Again, thank you for the offer. You are too cool for words.