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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: radguzzi on July 28, 2015, 10:54:51 AM
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I am heading Northeast toward Maine and after 2100 miles the V11 Jackal engine started missing badlyminor first the slight hiccup was only once in whiee and it has progressed to very often.
The first thing I have done is change plugs in the off chance that was the issue... possibly the 87 octane I was forced to fill up with at a poorly timed fuel stop.
No joy, next I stopped and bought some contact cleaner to spray Ingo the TIPS, that seemed to work for a few miles with only minor hiccups but now it is back.
I am at a rest stop in Crossville, Tenn. And was hoping for Roanoke tonight but I do not know whether I should continue or not.
I.know this is not much to go on but if you have any advice on what to check I would appreciate a call.
Thanks,
Rob
I will be here for a few more minutes and then check in at tbe next fuel stop.
207/350-0386
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What is the status of your side stand cut out switch?
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Bad gas? Dump in some SeaFoam...
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Does the Jackal have a sensor in the right side of the bell housing? If so, that picks up clutch swarf and gets dodgy. Easy to remove and wipe clean.
What does your gravity fuel flow look like? There is a huge filter for the FI system. However, upstream of the pump is the tank's petcock and that petcock has a tiny filter about the size of a pencil. Tank debris can clog that filter easily. When you stop, the debris falls off. Next time you run the bike, it seems fine for a bunch of miles until the debris gets up into fuel and again sucked onto the filter screen. Pull the fuel hose from the petcock and turn on the key. It should flow fuel just like any gravity petcock. Remember, in a FI system, the pump is always circulating fuel just like the water in a fish tank. Thus, much easier for debris to get at this little filter.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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The sidestand switch is unplugged.
I thought about bad gas but I have running four tanks a day...
I need a place to tear into that fuel system in the event that something unexpected breaks, the rest area is no place for repairs.
I am heading back out and I'll check in later.
Thanks'
rd
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What about the electric fuel petcock?
If you still have one, it could be restricting fuel flow.
I know my Bassa cut out and acted strange before totally dying on me with the electric petcock gone bad.
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Does the bike seem to run out of fuel or does it just die? If it does the former it could be your petcock filter.
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http://www.powersports-pro.com/ Corban Eells is good - (865) 255-2188 Maryville, TN, if you're heading east on I40. Cut over on 321 through Lenoir City. If you get stuck at Corbans or near, drop me a PM, I'll be around off and on. Corban is good. I also know places to avoid. Corban probably has time to run you through quick, but Willis in Knoxville is very good, too. Busy busy.
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I agree with the petcock as a possible suspect, also the kill switch on these can be an issue. Restriction at the petcock should change the sound of the fuel pump.
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I had a similar issue on a trip awhile back while riding my centauro, ended up being a bad coil cutting in and out.
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You might try pulling and reattaching as many electrical components as you can reach. I had the same symptoms on my 96 Cali. The connections at the coils turned out to be the culprit.
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The power loss is as if the bottle just falls out for a split second and then I can power through it.
I will try checking all connections but I'll fear this may be a show stopper. If this totally craps out at a bad time then it could be a dangerous situation.
I still want to make it to Roanoke.
If I have to catch a flight back and find a place to leave the Guzzi for pick up from a shipping company I can do it from there.
Man, this is not good .
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When I bought my EV in Denver I found it would run out of power on the hills, it wouldn't actually cut out just bog down. The fuel filter was blocked, I took it off and shook it up with the fuel remaining then let it run back out the inlet this was enough to get me back to BC.
If it's cutting right out like loss of electrics remove the side cover and hot wire to the ECU relay, second from front, this will bypass all the interlocks, ignition switch, kill switch.
The first fuse from the rear of the bike is the petcock fuse, if you can get 12 Volts there the ECU should be happy
The hot for that fuse comes from the stand relay normally closed, from kill switch from ignition switch
I would remove the stand relay and poke a wire from the battery into the center small socket, if there's no connector in there it may use the 87 connector (large one in the middle)
In the case of an intermittent electrical I always suggest to monitor the petcock fuse with a small 12 V lamp. It's the last point before the power goes to the ECU relays, even if you have a manual petcock chances are Fuse 1 is still wired. If you pass a Radio Shack or automotive parts outlet get a small 12 V lamp with wires attached, jamb one wire in with the fuse the other to chassis.
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Is it sensitive to the throttle position?
Sounds like a bad spot on the TPS.
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I agree with the petcock as a possible suspect, also the kill switch on these can be an issue. Restriction at the petcock should change the sound of the fuel pump.
Is the pump unusually noisy?
It's easy to check the fuel flow, uncouple the return hose where it joins the tank at the front by the headstock (its the one with a connector nut) and direct it into a bottle. you should get a full pipe flow several gallons per minute.
If you just get a dribble there's the problem.
If its cutting like loss of electrics hot wire the sucker as per my previous.
Take note next time it cut's out, does the tacho return to zero while the engine is still spinning?
One other thing, my EV came with resistor type HT lead. it started to miss on one cylinder then cut out with throttle opening getting progressively worse over a couple of days, there was a gap in the core at the coil end, the temporary fix was poking a strand of wire into the core to bridge the gap.
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replace the micro iso relays.
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is it heat related. does the bike run fine cold and then acts up when its warmed? I dont own one but does a guzzi have an ignition coil?
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is it heat related. does the bike run fine cold and then acts up when its warmed? I dont own one but does a guzzi have an ignition coil?
It has 2 coils so a failed coil will only take out one cylinder
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Sounds electrical. Go in a dark place make sure nothing is shorting when you throttle through the rough spot (like a loose or rubbed bare spark plug wire). I also suspect a bad coil. Good luck!
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If I have to catch a flight back and find a place to leave the Guzzi for pick up from a shipping company I can do it from there.
Get it to the closest u-haul dealer, rent a one way van. Has to be cheaper than the above.
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Get it to the closest u-haul dealer, rent a one way van. Has to be cheaper than the above.
But do NOT tell U-Haul folks what you want to put in their truck ... or you'll be renting an empty truck to pull a trailer.
BTDT. [Imagine angry & tearful emoticon]
Bill
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Get it to the closest u-haul dealer, rent a one way van. Has to be cheaper than the above.
Don't use U-haul as they are the most expensive. Try Budget. Oh, and tell them you are hauling "household" goods.
First of all try and find a Guzzi shop that has the equipment to diagnose what is wrong. Misses and cutting out are hard to fix on the computer.
Good luck,
Tex
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Rad,
I'm an hour ENE of Roanoke (Lynchburg) Have pup & trailer, I can come & pick you & the bike up. Have tools, a few parts & place to work on/store bike if needed. also spare bedroom. Let me know if i can do anything to help, (434)993-3841.
ronkom
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Rad,
I'm an hour ENE of Roanoke (Lynchburg) Have pup & trailer, I can come & pick you & the bike up. Have tools, a few parts & place to work on/store bike if needed. also spare bedroom. Let me know if i can do anything to help, (434)993-3841.
ronkom
:1:
And that is the best solution thus far. Way to go. :boozing:
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The power loss is as if the bottle just falls out for a split second and then I can power through it.
TPS is my bet.
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TPS is my bet.
My Jackal was dropping rpms and popping at low speeds like the whole system had a short. I replaced the TPS and that fixed the problem. I have the old TPS, which would probably get you home. I could Fed Ed it to you.
Rich A
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Sorry for the late post.... I have been out running the rain.
So the thing straightened out for a tank full and now it is back to the same tuff...
More later, I just got in to Waterville, no Marriott rooms in Roanoke.
Thank you all. Back when I can type on the iPad...
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Sorry for the late post.... I have been out running the rain.
So the thing straightened out for a tank full and now it is back to the same tuff...
More later, I just got in to Waterville, no Marriott rooms in Roanoke.
Thank you all. Back when I can type on the iPad...
Seems to reason fuel component related then, fuel filter or something that gets moved around and then gets sucked back into place and causes fuel starvation. A loose connection somewhere but to go a whole tank regular running and then when new gas is added? Filter.
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Sorry for the late post.... I have been out running the rain.
So the thing straightened out for a tank full and now it is back to the same tuff...
More later, I just got in to Waterville, no Marriott rooms in Roanoke.
Thank you all. Back when I can type on the iPad...
Not sure where Waterville is, but if north of Roanoke you are not that far from Winchester Motosports -- http://www.winchestermotosports.com -- where a very fine Guzzi wrench (Mike) works.
Bill
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Most likely the petcock filter. When mine clogged a full tank of gas relieved the symptoms. The crud had gathered around the petcock filter but gas got through the top, like a straw.
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Seems to reason fuel component related then, fuel filter or something that gets moved around and then gets sucked back into place and causes fuel starvation. A loose connection somewhere but to go a whole tank regular running and then when new gas is added? Filter.
That's how my EV went, stop the bike, some of the crud falls down, start and runs ok for a while after a while builds up again. With the fuel injection eventually every scrap of rust ends up in the filter.
The Jackal/EV tanks are especially bad for rusting since rain/wash water runs into the tank rather than out the filler drain.
Radguzzi, when you get a chance pull the return line off and check for flow. Just remove the screw at rear of tank and slide it back a bit to remove the return line then watch the flow into a bottle while it primes.
As others have pointed out if the main filter, petcock filter are plugged or petcock is not opening the pump becomes extra noisy.
On mine it was the main filter plugged up solid, I just flushed it backwards and it's still going strong (no need to replace the filter)
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And most of all- hang in there! You will figure it out!
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Life sure was simpler in the days of points condenser ignition and carburators.
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I am not sure which ECU you have but on my 98 V11 EV I was having a similar problem like yours that only happening on rough roads or going over a bump. It turned out to be the the wiring harness plug on the P8 ECU was loose so I took wire ties strung around the ECU to hold the plug in on the ECU. It has been running fine ever since. Remove the plug and reinstall to see if that helps. Also could be a bad realy. Move them around to see if that helps. Good luck
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The '01,s have the small ECU under the side cover. Also, the crank sensor is in the timing chest. (FWIW)
Like others, I too lean toward the TPS. Another thought is the air bleed(s) may have backed out allowing causing a too lean condition. This is easy and free to check.
John Henry
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All right,
Thanks all, I will go through and check the fuel lines as mentioned... RonKom, I may be giving you a call.
Attempted remedies:
I first tried the Seafoam, easy to do. When I pulled up to the freeway she gave up one minor cough for old times sake and then ran great for about nine miles, ran well for a few more miles and then more minor couches.
I made a premature fuel stop to gather my thoughts, check mail and messages here, had a bite to eat. Before leaving the station I pulled the relays and reseated them.
Rode way and not a hiccup for forty nine miles, then again at sixty miles. Other than those two, she ran well.
One more fuel stop and it all went to crap again, nearly immediately.
So, yes, I will get away from the Marriott parking lot to pull fuel lines off...
It is foggy here so I am going to just wait for that to lift or burn off and go have a try at how she may be acting this morning.
Thank you all very much for the assist, back later with more details.
Best,
Rob
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Sorry for the late post.... I have been out running the rain.
So the thing straightened out for a tank full and now it is back to the same tuff...
More later, I just got in to Waterville, no Marriott rooms in Roanoke.
Thank you all. Back when I can type on the iPad...
If it straightened out for a full tank.. it's not the TPS. Once it starts acting up, it keeps acting up.
C'mon Rad.. this isn't rocket science. :smiley:
Pull the petcock, clean the screen, drain the rust out of the tank. Hope the fuel filter isn't plugged.
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Yeah, I get that Chuck, I am not sure that I have two 17mm wrenches with me so I will need to wait until Napa is open to buy anther one to pull the fuel tap off. Even then I will need to run the tank down so I don't create a hazmat situation in the parking lot... :tongue: right...? The tank will be completely open with the tap out... Correct...?
Is this screen the usual straw type arrangement as on many fuel taps...? and yes, hope it is not the filter.
More later.
It is foggy here so I may sneak the thing outta sight to pull the tap off and hope that I do not have a Valdez incident.
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If the tank is less than half full you can remove the tank from the bike and set it on its side in the grass to remove the fuel tap. No Valdez.
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If the tank is less than half full you can remove the tank from the bike and set it on its side in the grass to remove the fuel tap. No Valdez.
Yup, as soon as I get on the road I will check the mileage and do just that. A stop at Napa or some other parts store first to pick up the proper tools.
Thanks,
rd
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Where are you now (as in when you next stop for maddening maintenance)?
Bill
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Where are you now (as in when you next stop for maddening maintenance)?
Bill
Luckily Sue, said spouse back home called to let me know that there were no rooms at any Marriott hotels in Roanoke so we put together the stay at Wytheville, just South of there for the night.
I need to go find some additional tools to ensure that I can pull the FI lines off the tank to enable removal and pull the fuel tap. Can't wait.
I hate doing that at home let alone on the road but hey, makes for good stories... :thumb:
Back soon.
Best,
rd
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Does anyone happen to know whether I need a 19mm for the FI line at the head of the tank...?
Do I need two, one to hold, one to remove the union fitting....? I cannot see the fitting until I pull the securing bolt at the rear of the tank and pull it back. I would rather do this all in one evolution with tools at the ready.
Thanks,
Rob
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Will check the nut size in about 20 minutes, mine comes off with a screwdriver to loosen the worm drive clamp.
Is the pump noisier than usual, like it's being strangled?
The filter is easy to back flush once you get it out of the frame.
You might find this useful, it's based on a 98 but if your fuses are behind the sidecover I'm guessing it is the same.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=77937.0
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I'd suggest a crescent wrench at this point. Not sure, I can't help you much here. Not familiar with that bike. Also, you may have some water in the tank maybe? Could there be a ball of water that gets in the way sometimes and not others? I guess removing the taps would clear that. Good luck.
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Not enough room in there for a crescent wrench. One 19mm should do the trick. As mentioned above the worm drive clamp might be easier to remove. The coupling nut has right and left hand threads with the regulator threaded for the latter. Once the nut is loose grab hold of the reg. and spin the nut with your fingers.
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Yes, it's 19mm, just checked mine, same size for the petcock and the front fitting of the fuel filter, sorry I couldn't get at the rear one.
The other hose at the front is just a spigot, a tank vent I think.
If either filter or the petcock is blocking flow the pump will make more noise than usual
If the main filter plugs the pressure goes from 45 to over 60 and it relieves back through the pump's internal relief, hence the strangle noise.
On mine the regulator is bolted to the chassis, just the downstream hose comes back.
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Rob left here (Lynchburg, Va) a couple hours ago, no calls to come & pick him up yet (fingers crossed). We:
1.Checked the flow of the electronic petcock (a gush each time the key turned on)
2.The gush was an indicator of a clean inlet screen on the petcock but we pulled the petcock & checked the screen anyway (REAL gush). At least that made sure any water in the bottom of the tank was washed out.
3. Pulled all the fuses & relays, cleaned the plug surfaces.
4. Sidestand switch was disabled, but Rob unplugged it from the harness under the tank & removed it from the bike.....to be absolutely sure.
At this point Rob took the bike out for a test ride. I told him to "jiggle" the key & killswitch & see if he could cause the symptom as he was riding up the road. He was gone so long, I was gearing up to go up the road & look for him when he came back grinning.
He said it missed just a bit when he first started the bike, but then it ran fine.
I said the next thing I'd suggest if the problem persisted would be to replace the relays for the fuel pump & CPU. I have the set of stockers I pulled from my EV when I bought the bosch replacements that Pyro Dan sold. I gave Rob 2, so he'd have some back-ups (besides the sidestand switch relay which is unused when the switch is deactivated). He decided to go ahead & put them in, then he loaded up & headed out. The bike sounded fine going up the road. I'm awaiting a final report on how the rest of the ride to Maine went.
Ronkom
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:thumb:
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:thumb:
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Man, it's amazing how awesome this group is...Well done, everyone, especially Ronkom.
Steve
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Just a thought -- if the problem persists after all this work -- what happens if the gas cap is popped when the symptoms occur? (could it be a tank suck issue with the vent?)
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Attaboy, Ron..
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I'm glad he contacted you Ron, I knew you would be helpful as always!
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We may not have shyte for Guzzi dealers in the states, but we have a whole passel of service centers. WG Service Centers.TM Way to go guys. :thumb: :bow:
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I made it to Chambersburg.p, PA.
Details after I get something to eat.
A huge thank you to Ron and everyone here as well.
Back in a few.
Best,
Rob
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Film at Eleven.....
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I'm glad you are up and running.
Ron, Roncom
When the dust settles , please give us a report of what the problem turned out to be.
What were the symptoms and what conclusion you came to.
This was an interesting problem and one we may all learn from.
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Going 81/84?
Anyway, if you have trouble as you approach New England don't be afraid to let us/me know.
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well the internet server blows at this motel so I am relegated to talking into my galaxy 3 to send this message, the iPad will not connect.
so as Ron said we did a bunch of diagnosis for the fuel system and checked things out and on the test ride it seemed to run better, still with hiccups though.
I decided to make a run for it packed up and headed toward 81 again to go north. as I was going down rockfish gap Turnpike I had the thought that we had not checked anything on the ECU, the plug or anything like that.
And then it dawned on me, there is a PC 3 connected to this motorcycle, I unplugged it plugged the stock ECU in and long story short rode to Chambersburg with nary a hitch.
There is aslight flat spot a couple of miles per hour either side of 70 but nothing like that rocking horse on a pogo stick doing hopscotch feel like it had earlier in the day.
I need to thank the Guzzi community for all the help, suggestions and support and of course Ron for opening his facility to help out a stranger in need. The common bond beong motorcycles and Moto Guzzi in particular
This is why we pay it forward, at some time everyone will need a helping hand. Luap has done us a great service by maintaining this site for us however we owe each other a huge round of humble thanks, this is a great community and I am proud to be a part of ot.
I think it is time for me to send in my 2015 support to WildGuzzi.
Kindly over look any typos here, I am.doing this on a small device.
Thanks again for the assistance.
Ron, you are the best. Thank you
Rob
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Wooooo hoo. Glad it worked out Rob!!!!
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Great news!
Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.
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Glad you're able to press on Rob. You're not the first one to unplug a PC to make the bike run better.
Hate those things too.
Cam
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These machines are getting old, and electrical connections are getting corroded. I've found that Wayne's magic Caig DeOxit on every electrical connector works wonders. Probably will fix that PC, too.
I've still gotta think that pulling the fuel petcock was the main culprit. Maybe water?
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Great news!
Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.
this!
Glad you're back on the road Rob.
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I took off late this morning, heading for Scranton then 84. East.
Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.
I would love to go 80 all the time but I need my license. The plan is to make it home tonight. More later as I stop for fuel.
Best,
Rob
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I took off late this morning, heading for Scranton then 84. East.
Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.
I would love to go 80 all the time but I need my license. The plan is to make it home tonight. More later as I stop for fuel.
Best,
Rob
It's stumbling in 5th at 70mph ?
Run it in 4th at 70mph.
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And then it dawned on me, there is a PC 3 connected to this motorcycle, I unplugged it plugged the stock ECU in and long story short rode to Chambersburg with nary a hitch.
Should have known. My PC3 is in a box in the garage from where it shut down my bike a few times.
I still think you need a new TPS.
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It's been great to part of this thread. Almost feels like a pit-stop crew!
(http://www.tlnt.com/media/2011/01/Pit-stop.jpg)
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Unfortunately there is a distinct hitch in the throttle at the speed I need to maintain.
Big hint. The reason it is stumbling at that particular speed is because you commonly run for long distances with all of the parameters at that one setting. What is the one sensor or device that YOU control? The TPS. The internal contact sweepers are always hovering at or about the same location. Miniscule internal resistance and sparking, etc. Leads to wear, dirt, corrosion at that one particular location of the arc. Eventually wears or changes more at that point than anywhere else along the sweep arc.
Change the TPS.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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The stumbling seems to be worse with the last one third of the tank forcing sooner pit stops...
A clue to the filter and or pump...? Who knows.
More later.
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Did you pull the petcock to check the filter or did you just check the flow?
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I still think you have a filter problem however as Patrick pointed out the TPS may have a dead spot. This would be easy to verify if you have a multimeter, not so easy on the road though, can you get to someone with a meter?
If the bike starts to fail again you could loosen the TPS and move it back and forth a few degrees while maintaining a steady throttle, It's surprising how little effect changing the mV has on the fuel mix but if it's dropping right off who knows?
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Ok, I am in Southbury, Conn for the night, good wifi and on the iPad, not my phone.. Lol... I need to update you all on conditions.
I had mentioned that the symptoms of stumbling were greatest when the tank was ini the lower third well that has proved not to be the case as I monitored the conditions all day long. It still happens everywhere Except when I am hammering the throttle, passing a truck or cruising at 80+ mph. Now I could do that all day long but we know the law of averages especially with the law... :copcar: anyway.
Yes, probably a combination of TPS, fuel delivery or more issues, who the Hell knows right now but I will find out and report back.
To add insult to injury I escorted a huge cell of nasty thunder storms across part of N Y and I pulled into Southbury to both look for a room and just get out of that torrent. It was Biblical, I kid you not. Leading further that if I have open wire coverings or shorting issues that might be exsaserbated by flooding rains then that could become very dangerous. Of course hitting the Nutmeg State at rush hour... :rolleyes:
On an up side I found the Nelson Riggs rain gear more than up to the task.
So, I will be home tomorow and I will start in on the fuel filter, have my local m/c shop guy that is good with the electronics diagnosis start in on it and straighten her out.
Again, I want to thank each and every one of you for the help, I did not answer all PMs and I apologize, things have been a tad hectic from the cockpit.
Know that I very much appreciate you taking time to help out.
More later.
Best,
Rob
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I think it is time for me to send in my 2015 support to WildGuzzi.
Let me know if you want one of the nifty oil sensor wiring kits I offered to all 2015 contributors....
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These machines are getting old, and electrical connections are getting corroded. I've found that Wayne's magic Caig DeOxit on every electrical connector works wonders. Probably will fix that PC, too.
I've still gotta think that pulling the fuel petcock was the main culprit. Maybe water?
Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray? Pin applicator?
Best of luck Rob!
Shaun
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Power Commanders and airbox mods-I hate those on Guzzis.
Well, it may not work for everyone, but my 2008 Norge is the better for it... (PC-V w Autotune, wideband O2, open airbox w K&N, ECU remapped for full O2 control)
It does mean the owner needs to take a different mindset to operating and troubleshooting it.
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Guessing for late models ? Missed that , pretty nice offer .
Dusty
I created it for late models, but the offer is open to any who use the now discontinued GU31768780 sensor. Common on post 2005 big blocks, but may be used elsewhere...
See the thread at http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=77673.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=77673.0)
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Rob,
http://hamlincycles.com
If you're still in Southbury, Jim Hamlin's Guzzi shop is 17 miles from you. Worth a short ride for him to check it out. He's got a great rep.
Cam
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Rob,
http://hamlincycles.com
If you're still in Southbury, Jim Hamlin's Guzzi shop is 17 miles from you. Worth a short ride for him to check it out. He's got a great rep.
Cam
Cam,
I was just going to post the same information. I may be up there tomorrow.
Gerry
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Thanks Cam and Gerry. I contemplated givng them a call as the first few miles had the symptoms but I pressed on and then the damn thing ran flawlessly all the way to Maine, three more tanks. :rolleyes:
I will still start going through it.
I am home. :)
Best,
Rob
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Moto Guzzi - A World of Friends! Congrats Rob!
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Well the dust settled, we had another week's vacation where I did not touch the Guzzi... spent some quality time with Sue Ellen. :wink:
This morning I put a new fuel filter on and changed the remaining fuel out completely, reexamined the fuel tap filter, clean as a whistle.
The test ride indicated a little bit of stumbling and bucking at take off, not extreme but still there and it tended to smooth out once underway. I flew back home to reconnect the Power Commander and that made it absolutely un-rideable...! :shocked: I could hardly get back up the drive. So that is out of the loop... forever.
So now what... Disconnect the fuel pump and test it...? Is there a way to actually test the pump...?
I am not a TPS type of guy so if it comes to that I will need to take it to a fellow that I trust here, Ducati and general Italian service guy.
More later.
I have other chores to do so this may have to take a back seat and get to it when I can.
Thanks,
Rob
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Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray? Pin applicator?
Best of luck Rob!
Shaun
Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..
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Side question: what form of Caig DeOxit works best? Spray? Pin applicator?
Best of luck Rob!
Shaun
Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..
Got it... can't hurt.
Thanks,
rd
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I had a very similar issue with my jackal a while back. Same kinds of symptoms. I changed the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tap, drained the gas, checked the tps , had a diagnostic run on the fuel injection and ignition, on and on. Turns out it was the spark plug caps. Put on a new set and all was well. Not saying that is the answer to your problem, but these kind of challenges can drive a person to distraction. Hope you get it fixed soon.
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{snippity}
So now what... Disconnect the fuel pump and test it...? Is there a way to actually test the pump...?
{snip}
Thanks,
Rob
Pumps are rated by flow and pressure and the ability to 'lift' fuel. In the hold-my-beer school if we can figure out pressure, flow and lift are implied.
So I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see if it maintains ~42# when the problem is occurring.
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I had a very similar issue with my jackal a while back. Same kinds of symptoms. I changed the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tap, drained the gas, checked the tps , had a diagnostic run on the fuel injection and ignition, on and on. Turns out it was the spark plug caps. Put on a new set and all was well. Not saying that is the answer to your problem, but these kind of challenges can drive a person to distraction. Hope you get it fixed soon.
Thanks wavedog, I changed the plug caps, no go. Good idea though.
I also swapped the electronic fuel tap with the one from the Sporti that is off the road due to cosmetic upgrades (paint), no go there either.
Pumps are rated by flow and pressure and the ability to 'lift' fuel. In the hold-my-beer school if we can figure out pressure, flow and lift are implied.
So I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see if it maintains ~42# when the problem is occurring.
Yeah, I am not how I could watch a gauge with one in line to the pump... :undecided: the occurance is only while riding, not at idle.
After a couple of test rides following plug cap changes, fuel tap changes, the latest observation is that the stumble is just off idle while taking off in first gear, after that she tends to run right up and pull like normal, no skip, no stumble. On decel, shifting down to turn up the rpms and throttle up there will be a slight hiccup and stumble. :tongue:
On the Caig DeOxit subject...
Does the Caig brand contain chemicals different than the CRC Brand QD Electronic Cleaner that I have here...?
Isohexane, Difluoroethane, Ethanol, n-Hexane...
Thanks,
Rob
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Does the Caig brand contain chemicals different than the CRC Brand QD Electronic Cleaner that I have here...?
Isohexane, Difluoroethane, Ethanol, n-Hexane...
They don't tell you what's in it. :smiley: Neither does Coke..
It's prescribed by Dr. Wayne. That's good enough for me. As I mentioned, I can't tell you how many things I've fixed with it. The Kid fixed a $5000 (!) helicopter relay, too. A friend had a Countach that he'd put DiElectric grease in connectors. Practically nothing worked. All afternoon and and $17 can of DeOxit fixed it. <shrug>
Change out the TPS, like has been mentioned above. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu You North Easterners are hard headed. :grin:
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Chuck is right, change the TPS, it is much easier than frigging with a pressure test on the pump, which is unlikely to be the culprit.
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They don't tell you what's in it. :smiley: Neither does Coke..
It's prescribed by Dr. Wayne. That's good enough for me. As I mentioned, I can't tell you how many things I've fixed with it. The Kid fixed a $5000 (!) helicopter relay, too. A friend had a Countach that he'd put DiElectric grease in connectors. Practically nothing worked. All afternoon and and $17 can of DeOxit fixed it. <shrug>
Change out the TPS, like has been mentioned above. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu You North Easterners are hard headed. :grin:
Geezus, take it easy there shipmate... I am not hard headed, I just like take steps to run all this crap to ground.
I do not have the expertise to just swap out a TPS so I am doing what I can prior to taking it to someone who can... dayum.
And I get it with the Caig, all the usual outlets are closed on Sundays so I will try to procure the DeOxit tomorrow.
Patience grasshopper. :bow:
Best,
rd
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Dunno.. I've never used anything except the spray. It's fixed a ton of electrical stuff for me, though..
Thanks, Chuck. I've ordered some!
Shaun
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You're not supposed to do this as it is not the most accurate way to do it, but I set the TPS on my Jackal, which was misfiring, using Guzzidiag, and now the bike is running fine.
(Before doing this I compared the TPS reading I got with a VOM against the Guzzidiag number. Then I installed the new TPS using the Guzzidiag value).
Rich A
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I agree that he pump pressure is probably not the problem. But the question was how to test it, not was it a productive thing to do. :smiley:
As far as the problem with reading the gauge while riding -- try a longer hose so the gauge can be taped to the handlebar. You can easily replace the oil light sender with a banjo and run the hose off of that.
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Hey Rob,
I came across a purple water bottle festooned with stickers in my garage. I assume it's yours. Where shall I send it?
Ron
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You're not supposed to do this as it is not the most accurate way to do it, but I set the TPS on my Jackal, which was misfiring, using Guzzidiag, and now the bike is running fine.
(Before doing this I compared the TPS reading I got with a VOM against the Guzzidiag number. Then I installed the new TPS using the Guzzidiag value).
Rich A
GuzziDiag gave me a reading of zero MV when I'd set Rosie's TPS with a voltmeter to 150 MV. IIRC, it would read 0, and the next higher number would be *well* over 150.. I can see why they say don't do that. :grin:
What you did sounds right to me, but I'm certainly no expert..
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I can also vouch for Deoxit. You can find it at large computer stores and/or large music stores carry it too. There are a few different types depending on application, but probably the more common one that you'll find (and that I've used) is the D5.
Here is the full list:
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f
Also, I've used ACF-50 for stuff like this and it works just as well (a little more messy however)
http://www.amazon.com/Lear-Chemical-ACF50-Anti-Corrosion-Lubricant/dp/B000P1C8UO
As far as the TPS goes, I know nothing about it and just learned that it means Throttle Position Sensor and it is NOT a reference to the movie "Office Space" :tongue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy3rjQGc6lA
Hope you can figure out what the problem is soon!
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When you changed the plug caps was the HT lead solid core or the resistor core type?
My EV was the carbon stuff and it burnt out at the coil end.
It only takes a couple of minutes to check the TPS, do you have the large P8 ECU or a small one?
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Hey Rob,
I came across a purple water bottle festooned with stickers in my garage. I assume it's yours. Where shall I send it?
Ron
Hey Ron,
Nah, don't send it but thanks... use it for a fuel collection canister. :laugh:
I will send your spare relays here this week.
Thanks,
Rob
When you changed the plug caps was the HT lead solid core or the resistor core type?
My EV was the carbon stuff and it burnt out at the coil end.
It only takes a couple of minutes to check the TPS, do you have the large P8 ECU or a small one?
Well the core is stranded wire... If I can come up with the nerve I will check the TPS, I have studied the procedures that you guys have made reference to and I should be able to do it. What's the worst that could happen...? :shocked:
Small ECU, 2001 V11 California.
I can also vouch for Deoxit. You can find it at large computer stores and/or large music stores carry it too. Hope you can figure out what the problem is soon!
Thanks,
Rob
I too ordered some along with a sealer that they recommend to use after the cleaner. I could not find it locally so Amazon won.
Thanks,
Rob
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Even if you don't adjust it measure the Voltage from the TPS to chassis, open the throttle slowly and the Voltage should ramp up slowly from around 400mV to 4.5 Volts also, no sudden changes. Tell me which ECU you have and I will identify the wire. The old P8 ECUs are easy because you can just take the back off the connector for the other type I usually suggest poke a sewing pin through the wire.
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Even if you don't adjust it measure the Voltage from the TPS to chassis, open the throttle slowly and the Voltage should ramp up slowly from around 400mV to 4.5 Volts also, no sudden changes. Tell me which ECU you have and I will identify the wire. The old P8 ECUs are easy because you can just take the back off the connector for the other type I usually suggest poke a sewing pin through the wire.
Ok, well that sounds simple enough that even I could do it... I rode something else to work today so I will look as soon as I get home for the model of the brain.
Thanks,
Rob
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When I measured the TPS at the connector, I used short pieces of guitar string (unwound) as the probes. Had to use some needle nose pliers and cuss words to get them seated, but that worked.
I got my replacement TPS from CA Cycleworks. Good folks to deal with.
Rich A
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When I measured the TPS at the connector, I used short pieces of guitar string (unwound) as the probes. Had to use some needle nose pliers and cuss words to get them seated, but that worked.
I got my replacement TPS from CA Cycleworks. Good folks to deal with.
Rich A
That's a good idea Rich... I can change the strings on one of the acoustics, use a B or E string. If the connectors on the TPS have small holes in the tabs then I could use twist lock wire pliers to make a strand... although getting it of the tab might be a problem.
BTW, what I saw of your State while passing through was gorgeous, enough that Sue and I will go back for a longer stay one of these days.
Thanks,
rd
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The wires from telephone cable are about the right size but the pins from an old computer serial cable are perfect. Cut the plug apart and rescue a couple of pins with wire attached.
That's ok for measuring Ohms but the best method is to measure Volts with the key On.
Poke a pin through the wire going to pin 11, I think its Black/Violet
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I've got a few tens of thousands of those bare pins if anyone needs a few. But the sewing pin solution works perfectly, too.
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I'm not sure if it is exactly the same for V11 California, but there is a company that makes a nice little break-out harness for the TPS on the V11 Sport/Le Mans:
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness (http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness)
Might be the same on your bike.
It makes testing a little easier. I bought one, and it arrived within a few days. Sure, I could have done without, or could have made my own, but this was quick, easy and convenient.
Cheers,
Shaun
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I'm not sure if it is exactly the same for V11 California, but there is a company that makes a nice little break-out harness for the TPS on the V11 Sport/Le Mans:
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness (http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18052&hl=%2Btps+%2Bharness)
Might be the same on your bike.
It makes testing a little easier. I bought one, and it arrived within a few days. Sure, I could have done without, or could have made my own, but this was quick, easy and convenient.
Cheers,
Shaun
Thanks for that Shaun... The Breakout Connector will make the testing easier, especially for the amateur like me. I am not a Luddite but I have avoided learning the procedures required for the FI/ECU equipped Guzzis that I own. I need to get on the stick and jump in to figure this stuff out.
Thanks,
Rob
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I used sewing needles in the backside of the connector where the wires go. A digital Fluke meter and a set of their clip on probes. My V11 had a stumble at around 3000-3500 rpm (70 mph or so) after a TPS swap to cure said stumble. No help. I reset the Idle Fuel Trim from -20 to +25 and the problem disappeared. I went as high as +90 but that was a bit rich. I used the Centurion software for that but GuzziDiag is so much better at everything. I still have the replacement item as the stocker works beautifully now. If you mark a spot on the throttle handgrip that corresponds to the rpm bad spot, you can watch the TPS values as you roll through the marked area. I would wager a beer the TPS is OK.