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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Robert Sylvester on August 06, 2015, 02:36:40 PM

Title: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Robert Sylvester on August 06, 2015, 02:36:40 PM
Just got this months Cycle World magazine. Great article on the new California. What confuses me is the authors statement that Moto Guzzi is the third oldest continuously run motorcycle company in the world. I have always thought we were the 2nd oldest behind Harley Davidson. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rodekyll on August 06, 2015, 02:46:50 PM
Those claims are more believable if they can name the other two.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 06, 2015, 02:51:44 PM
Royal Enfield .

  Dusty

If Indian Enfield is counted, so should be Triumph.

Which would make Guzzi 5th.

I'll go with H-D 1st, Guzzi 2nd, BMW 3rd.

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 06, 2015, 03:11:19 PM
Technically , it was always called ROYAL Enfield , and production never ceased . Triumph ceased production a couple of times . Pedantic , well sure .

  Dusty

Enfield of India is a different company from the original Royal Enfield (Enfield Cycle Company), and only dates to 1955. 

"In 1955, Enfield Cycle Company partnered with Madras Motors in India in forming Enfield of India, based in Chennai, and started assembling the 350 cc Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle in Madras. The first machines were assembled from components imported from England. Starting in 1957, Enfield of India acquired the machines necessary to build components in India, and by 1962 all components were made in India

The original Redditch, Worcestershire based company dissolved in 1971, but Enfield of India continued, and bought the rights to use the Royal Enfield name."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Enfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Enfield_(India)

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: redrider on August 06, 2015, 03:37:55 PM
Norton was founded in 1898. There have been so many iterations of almost all that the modern company is the old in name only. I go with the original start-up date.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: tazio on August 06, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
Husqvarna
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Aaron D. on August 06, 2015, 03:45:48 PM
Husqvarna isn't really continuous, is it?

If you think Enfield should be considered then Indian beats them all. But that would be wrong.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: oldbike54 on August 06, 2015, 03:49:21 PM
Husqvarna

 Troublemaker LOL . Really , since Honda built their first MC in what , 1954 , and to the best of my knowledge has never actually been  taken over by the workers in a lock out , or sold to a bowling ball company , we could say they are the oldest . I stand by my original assertion , Enfield , HD , Moto Guzzi .

  Dusty
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 06, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Daimler.

Yeah, they switched to cars, but they're still the oldest.   :evil:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: oldbike54 on August 06, 2015, 03:52:44 PM
Husqvarna isn't really continuous, is it?

If you think Enfield should be considered then Indian beats them all. But that would be wrong.

 Using that criteria Enfield is still older .

  Dusty
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: oldbike54 on August 06, 2015, 03:55:57 PM
Daimler.

Yeah, they switched to cars, but they're still the oldest.   :evil:

 Never a brand , and DeDion actually built and sold trikes before anyone else .

  Dusty
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Scud on August 06, 2015, 04:26:36 PM
Husqvarnas have been manufactured continuously - although there have been several changes in ownership over the years (true also for Guzzi and many others). BMW had a short stoppage - things were a bit tense in Germany in the early to mid 1940s.

To my knowledge, only Harley and Husky have released 100-year anniversary special-edition bikes - they are marked by chrome baubles and stickers (respectively).

I started a "100-year anniversary wishes" thread over on v11LeMans site a while ago. Docc posted a great interview with Carcano that gives perspective on the company:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18931&hl=

Odd that Husqvarnas now share so much with KTMs - and that the resurrected SWM is reintroducing the previous Italian Husqvarna models. As an Italian-Husky enthusiast, I'm having a little identity crisis. CafeHusky subdivides the forum into Swedish, Italian, and Austrian bikes (to include the brief BMW mis-adventure).  http://www.cafehusky.com/

Wikipedia on Husqvarna (first bikes in 1903):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husqvarna_Motorcycles
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 06, 2015, 04:54:12 PM

To my knowledge, only Harley and Husky have released 100-year anniversary special-edition bikes - they are marked by chrome baubles and stickers (respectively).
 

Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

(http://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/photos/2002_triumph_t100_bonnevi/img_3804.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Yeahoo Whoyah on August 06, 2015, 05:02:42 PM
Can someone start a poll and then we can vote?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Scud on August 06, 2015, 05:18:39 PM
Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

(http://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/photos/2002_triumph_t100_bonnevi/img_3804.jpg)

Thanks. Special paint for them.  Lucifer Orange... what the hell?  :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 06, 2015, 05:24:43 PM
Can someone start a poll and then we can vote?

Done.

(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/lurker.gif)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Denis on August 06, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
"Oldest Motorcycle Company" is rather  a vague term, isn't it?!

I would tend to discount any shuffling around "just to keep the name alive" sort of claim, just as I would discount any "revivals" or "revisiting".

For oldest continuously produced motorcycles I'm sticking with these:
1. Harley-Davidson (1903)
2. Moto Guzzi (1921)
3. BMW (1923)

If we get into oldest by date, no matter when the company discontinued production, that's a whole separate category and then you get into stuff from the late 1800s where no examples even exist or they made 5 or 10 or 20 examples.

By the same token in the auto world, the only auto manufacturing company in the world that is older than Daimler is Studebaker, founded in 1852. Even if you consider they ceased production in 1966, they are STILL one of the oldest vehicle manufacturing companies in the world. Hell, they were 114 years old when they stopped making cars and trucks. And Oldsmobile still is one of the oldest auto companies in the world and it hasn't produced a car in 11 years.

If you count auto manufacturers STILL manufacturing vehicles, again, that is a different story but again with Daimler being the oldest.





Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rodekyll on August 06, 2015, 07:30:26 PM
Wasn't BSA also founded in 1852?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: ITSec on August 06, 2015, 08:44:59 PM
Never a brand , and DeDion actually built and sold trikes before anyone else .

  Dusty

Actually, Daimler was a 'brand' (of constructor), Maybach was a partner, and Mercedes was a model and later a model line (and also a partner's daughter's name).  Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft became Daimler Benz which became Daimler AG...
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: ohiorider on August 06, 2015, 09:18:48 PM
Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

(http://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/photos/2002_triumph_t100_bonnevi/img_3804.jpg)
Making me nostalgic for my 2003 T100 in Lucifer Orange and Silver.  Mine was 'post-factory fire' model, not pre-fire 2002.  She's still ridden and loved by the third owner, who had her trailered in the dead of a January winter from Hudson, Ohio to his home in Philadelphia.  Last I heard, the bike was approaching 65,000 miles.  But 100 years of continuous production? 

Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Scud on August 06, 2015, 10:21:42 PM
"Oldest Motorcycle Company" is rather  a vague term, isn't it?!

I would tend to discount any shuffling around "just to keep the name alive" sort of claim, just as I would discount any "revivals" or "revisiting".

For oldest continuously produced motorcycles I'm sticking with these:
1. Harley-Davidson (1903)
2. Moto Guzzi (1921)
3. BMW (1923)

If we get into oldest by date, no matter when the company discontinued production, that's a whole separate category and then you get into stuff from the late 1800s where no examples even exist or they made 5 or 10 or 20 examples.


We could also ask, "What is the oldest company that at some point produced motorcycles?" Then we'd have to look closely at Husqvarna's founding in the 1600s as a weapons manufacturer - hence the gun-barrel-and-sights logo around the H. I know Husqvarna is not "in the sights" of most street riders, but they have a rich history and I think (and hope) a good future. Rather than being "shuffled around" they're currently offered as a premium product above KTM. I think they've had about as many owners as Moto Guzzi. I feel compelled to represent the "oldest continuous motorcycle manufacturers" list in this fashion:

1. Husqvarna (1903)
2. Harley Davidson (1905) - when they actually produced a motorcycle
3. Moto Guzzi (1921)
4. BMW (1923) - happy to include BMW on the "continuous" list even though they had to cease production briefly at end of WWII.

I agree that resurrected brands such as Indian and Norton are not the same companies as they were the first go-round.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 06, 2015, 10:56:41 PM
Is there any other motorcycle company that is still building bikes in the same factory they started in? Not the same location, but the original factory. I think Moto Guzzi is alone in that distinction.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Scud on August 06, 2015, 11:04:21 PM
Is there any other motorcycle company that is still building bikes in the same factory they started in? Not the same location, but the original factory. I think Moto Guzzi is alone in that distinction.

It's all about how the question is asked. You found the way to put Moto Guzzi at the top of the list. 

Well done.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rodekyll on August 06, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
Uhhh , not as a motorbike company .

  Dusty

And Studebaker was?
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 07, 2015, 07:50:38 AM
Voting ends today at 4:20.

Vote while you can.

(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/bmwrider.gif)
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: oldbike54 on August 07, 2015, 09:19:06 AM
Actually, Daimler was a 'brand' (of constructor), Maybach was a partner, and Mercedes was a model and later a model line (and also a partner's daughter's name).  Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft became Daimler Benz which became Daimler AG...

 Cars and trucks , besides , the Reitwagon had outriggers  :laugh:

  Dusty
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 07, 2015, 09:29:27 AM
Oh you are SOOOOO funny Mike  :laugh:

  Dusty

 Wait , I'm polling in third , if elected , I will not serve  :grin:

  Dusty

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: keithl on August 07, 2015, 10:56:14 AM
I believe Enfield is the oldest brand, but not necessarily oldest motorcycle company. They were making guns first.
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Scud on August 07, 2015, 12:56:11 PM
I believe Enfield is the oldest brand, but not necessarily oldest motorcycle company. They were making guns first.

Quick internet search turns up:

Royal Enfield founded 1893 as a gun manufacturer, motorcycles in 1901. The Enfield corporation shut down and shipped the manufacturing machines to India. The company that makes Enfields today is not the same company that founded it.

Husqvarna founded in 1689 as a gun manufacturer, motorcycles in 1903. Husqvarna had continuity of (at least some) employees, dealers, and facilities during their ownership transitions.

I'm abstaining from voting, because my candidate is not on the ballot - and there's no provision for a write-in.

FWIW: I also like the argument for Honda being the oldest - but then the definition would need to include some continuity of ownership as well as manufacturing.

This is an interesting discussion.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on August 07, 2015, 01:28:22 PM
Voting ends today at 4:20.

Vote while you can.

(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/bmwrider.gif)

 On Friday 4:20 comes earlier..
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Denis on August 07, 2015, 07:05:53 PM
Is there any other motorcycle company that is still building bikes in the same factory they started in? Not the same location, but the original factory. I think Moto Guzzi is alone in that distinction.

We have a winner!
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: rocker59 on August 07, 2015, 07:14:36 PM
And Dusty tied for 2nd with Indian !!!   :boozing:
Title: Re: Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?
Post by: Waltr on August 08, 2015, 06:47:19 AM
Can someone start a poll and then we can vote?

  Ok lets vote on what facts to believe.  While we are at lets vote on how many inches in a foot or feet in a yard or the correct answer for 2 + 5.

  Ok, the I guess the french roast has kicked in...............ca rry on