Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: boatdetective on August 06, 2015, 06:47:36 PM
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OK- so i spent last Sunday riding back 100 miles in stop and go traffic with hot oil spraying all over my boot and pants. I DON'T want that to happen again.
When i pulled the cover, I saw that it had split at one of the lower holes. I know- be gentle with the screws. I was- but we're still talking about a thin section of gasketable surface.
I know how some folks swear that they coat one face of the gasket with a bit of oil so they can pop it off in the future. I'm not goign to be that cheap. My priority is to see that the oil stays inside the engine. At some point last season, i had to pull the opposite side and recall using a bit of high temp rtv. It has worked like a charm.
So my question is - I have a new set of gaskets- what would be the best thing to do- just bed a fresh gasket dry? use a thin shmear of rtv on the gasket to bond it to the head? Use Hi tack?
All opinions welcome - thx
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Thin sheen of oil on the gasket.
Don't use any adhesive. You (or the next owner) will regret it later.
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( Yorkshire accent )..." Loook-shiree..."
" When I was a motorcyclist, we had to cut our our valve cover gaskets out of rubberized cork. What we wouldn't have given for a NEW set of gaskets ! "
Oh, and what [rocker59] said.
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One word -grease.
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Both stock valve cover gaskets gave my boots a super coating of 10-60. I limped into MPH and Larry, the head teck. showed me what the new improved gaskets looked like. 5K and not a leak with NO magic coating. I used to have valve cover gaskets that lasted will over 100K, but the new gaskets are made of a different material that suxs, I mean blows.
Tex
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Try a product that's designed for frequently disassembled components. Hylomar , available from NAPA and most speed shops. Same gaskets on my bike since '09 and the valve covers come off at least twice a year.
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There are several types of rocker cover gaskets for squarefin big blocks supplied by the factory. They all work perfectly satisfactorily on earlier engines with rarely a problem but for some reason I don't understand the late model, twin plug, heads, regardless of cover shape seem to habitually spit the gaskets out. To make it even more infuriating not all engines do it! Only some of them!
Over here the importer is now bringing in and supplying Valpollini gaskets, these are constructed of the same metal-with-a-magic-coating material that the later small block rocker cover gaskets are. They can't rip and are very re-usable. I dunno if these are the same ones Mike is now using or not but they are a 'Universal' figment and it appears that they can be used on roundfins too, (Although I haven't tried it.)
If you can't source them in the U.S. I've seen what I think are the same gaskets on fleabay from Europe but PM me John and I'll bung a couple in a baggy for you for nix. Just use the shitty ones until they arrive.
Pete
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get the silicone reusable gaskets. find them with google.
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Thin sheen of oil on the gasket.
Don't use any adhesive. You (or the next owner) will regret it later.
:1:
I just set my valves tonight, so have a few observations:
1. Cleanliness. Make everything very clean (which will be hard if you have a gasket glued on). Clean the cover exterior before you remove it, too, since grit tends to collect at the top seam, and can fall into your valve gear.
2. Assuming your gasket was put on last time with oil, it will either come off without any effort, or may need a sideways tap with a plastic mallet.
3. Look for splits, even if the gasket wasn't leaking. I just found one of these, with no leak. (It might have split when I used the mallet.)
4. Use motor oil to coat both sides (not just one side) of the gasket on installation. Reusing gaskets in good shape works.
5. Torque the bolts to 10Nm. Somehow this is a controversial suggestion, even though Guzzi has specified it for 40+ years. Ignore the touchy feely types who say to use your own judgement. Get a suitable torque wrench for low torque values; Harbor Freight offers one that seems to work well enough.
The recent, cheaper gaskets do split -- I've had this happen twice. The kind of gasket that Pete mentioned, built on a metal core, is available from mgcycle.com in the U.S.:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4634 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4634)
I'll probably buy a couple of these next, but I'll continue to use plain oil to fit them.
Whatever you do, don't use a gasket glue.
Moto
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OK, those ones MG are selling are the Valpolini type I mentioned. They are the the solution to this irritating problem.
Pete
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After having to change the valve cover gasket on my old saturn, and having to pick off the RTV that the previous person that worked on it used, I have an overarching desire to kick anyone who uses RTV on gasket surfaces square in the nuts.
I've had good luck using grease on the gaskets just before installation. No problems so far on the Breva 1100 after replacing the ones the bike came with. It had a busted valve cover gasket and some gaskets that no one had ever seen before.
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I would also suggest hand sand/plane the valve cover gasket surface flat. Use a glass, marble or granite surface and some 220 then 400 dry/wet sandpaper or emery cloth as the top, then with light pressure move the valve cover back & forth as well as in a circular motion (checking often to make sure you're not putting too much pressure on one side only and such). This will ensure you are starting off again with a nice flat surface. then tighten to the specs mentioned above.
I had a problem with a leaky valve cover after I adjusted the valves for the first time. Turn out that I overnighted the bolts causing some slight warping that was enough to cause the leak.
Start with a high grit number if you're not sure you want to do this (like 800 or 1000 grit) and you'll quickly see where the problem areas may be if any.
As far as gaskets go, the previous owner had the gray (factory?) ones before I went in to adjust the valves, and it did not leak. Then I used new green ones and it leaked (see reason why above). After planing the surface flat, I used new green ones again and it did not leak. I used a little bit of engine oil to wet the gasket in both cases.
Hope that helps.
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Thicker green ones from MG Cycle. Thin layer of grease on both sides. Works well for me.
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OK, those ones MG are selling are the Valpolini type I mentioned. They are the the solution to this irritating problem.
Pete
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/976139b.jpg)
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4634
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To reduce the chances of warping the cover I tighten the screws incrementally in a crisscross pattern, starting with the central four screws, then the outer, and back around in this pattern until the proper torque is achieved.
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Thanks to Pete and Antietam Classic for explaining why to use the gaskets from MG Cycle. Larry from MPH basically said the same thing, but I didn't relay the message.
I'll stick to turnips.
Tex
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OK, those ones MG are selling are the Valpolini type I mentioned. They are the the solution to this irritating problem.
Pete
Yes, the metal core rubberized gasket is terrific. Never going back to the paper ones.
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I went on MG's website and only found black or green paper ones. Are they available for round heads too? Does anyone have part numbers? I have both type bikes. Thanks.
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get the silicone reusable gaskets.
Gotta agree:
http://www.realgaskets.com/files/motorcycle.htm
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No metal core for round-fin that I can find, only the square-fins and (Heron head) small-blocks.
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/887002.jpg)
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=4595
I've never had any issues with using the thick green ones on round-fins, but it would be nice to have metal core available for those as well.
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A while back in another thread Martin asked if they would fit roundfins too. I posted up a pic which showed that the Valpolini type appear to be 'Ambiheadstrous' in that it looks like they will work on both round and squarefin heads. Next time I'm at the desktop 'pooter I'll post the pic again.
Pete
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I like the rubber ones from realgaskets.com. My CalVin had a problem with leaking gaskets and tried many things to solve the issue finally the gaskets I mentioned were suggested to me and they have been great! A bit tricky to get them correctly but never a leak since I started using them and they should last a lifetime
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the brownies box that i cut into shape in a motorway rest stop near seville has so far outlasted two of the green gaskets on my calvin.
the black ones look great, anyone know where to order in the uk?
thanks
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Wish I had known about these before. I think Pete identified the problem accurately. It's more than the gaskets splitting- they seem to squeeze/spit out at the lower edge- pushing away from the gasketed surface and splitting at the bolt holes. This could be due to surfaces that are slightly out of whack- but I'm not about to mess with that. The extra "squish of the silicone would probably solve that. However- I bought four of the iffy gaskets already.
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36 years on guzzi, and 10 racing them, and never had a valve cover gasket leak until my calvin oiled my shoe. Replaced with metal composite. Last week while doing valves, other side was close to blowing out. Same spot, one of 2 lowest bolt areas.
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The joy's of a hydro motor. No valve adjustment.
My best practice on gaskets is to coat both sides with a very thin layer of hondabond or yamabond, let it cure, install. I do not assemble with a wet sealer. Seals and can be removed easily. Don't worry about sealer squishing into motor.
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Another thing to check is to make sure your Crankcase ventilation check valve/PCV valve is working. If that little ball is rusted into the valve your crankcase will build pressure and oil will exit at the weakest point the valve covers.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=1007
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Different system on the CARC bikes. Breather is on the timing chest.
Pete