Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: homebrew on August 19, 2015, 09:05:32 AM
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My riding instructor, Steve Briggs, died yesterday after a minivan turned into his right of way this past Saturday. He was a very safety-conscious rider, always preaching ATGATT, emphasizing the ability to come to short stops ("Don't schtaaaaaap. STOP!"), and teaching about looking ahead to find escape routes even if everything looks clear. He was so talented a rider that not only did he teach a basic course, he co-owned and instructed at a school that taught advanced techniques to police officers and motorcycle rodeo participants. None of that was enough when he met the wrong minivan owner at the wrong time.
RIP Stephen Briggs, Marine, motorcycle enthusiast, IT professional, entrepreneur and all-around great human being. Everyone be careful out there, OK?
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Sorry.
As I have mentioned before, there is a fair amount of denial involved with riding a motorcycle..
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Sorry for your loss. But thanks for sharing the story. The fact that this happened to such an accomplished rider and safety advocate is an important reminder to us all. That bus picture in another thread a couple days ago got my attention too.
Safety first, fun second, speed third. Those are my priorities. Any time I've gotten in trouble it's because I let something get out of order.
@Chuck - yeah, when we get on a bike we need to deny that it's going to happen, but be aware that it could. It's a fine mental balancing act. Think about safety all the time... but don't think about safety too much... find the "goldilocks zone."
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Sorry for you loss.
I read this and the irony hit me (instructor, ATGATT, etc.). It reminded me of Lawrence Grodsky getting taken out by a deer.
I have to say Chuck makes a valid point.
I will admit that part of me hears this and wonders if we don't waste a lot of time arguing over helmets, and armor (and when it comes to cars seat belts and airbags) etc.
I always wear some gear (helmet, jacket, boots, gloves etc.) and there's no denying statistically that if everything else is equal I'm sure you're better off with more gear or safety devices (seat belts, airbags).
But at the end of the day, when your time is up, it probably just doesn't matter.
I'm not saying I'm going to stop wearing a helmet...but maybe I'm going to judge other's choices a little less harshly based on that.
Maybe it's just not worth it to sweat it out in full leathers on a 90-100F degree day... maybe ride a little slower and wear some mesh... I dunno...
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Maybe it's just not worth it to sweat it out in full leathers on a 90-100F degree day... maybe ride a little slower and wear some mesh... I dunno...
Get the mesh and sweat it out, I do. Sure it's not going to help you when the "day that knows your name" comes but it will help you if you become one of the (not) walking-wounded.
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Sorry.
As I have mentioned before, there is a fair amount of denial involved with riding a motorcycle..
Yes, AND a fair amount of denial that it's our fellow human beings that are doing this to us.
If they were shooting at us with six-guns, we'd know better how to deal with it. But our neighbors are taking the combination of a 4000 pound kinetic energy weapon, controlled by either alcohol or a smart-phone, and (without thinking or caring) killing us with them.
35,000 times a year. Nobody seems to care enough to do anything about it. Life in 21st century America.
Lannis
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Get the mesh and sweat it out, I do. Sure it's not going to help you when the "day that knows your name" comes but it will help you if you become one of the (not) walking-wounded.
:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother.. :evil:
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Anything worth doing involves some risk , sorry for your loss , but happy the man experienced life :thumb: :bike-037:
Dusty
Risk makes it exciting...unlike cars/trucks most drive with all sorts of devices to make sure the driver need not be concerned with driving...
Bad news and the irony of a man of experience getting put down in that manner...
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In the case of catastrophic collisions like head-on or impact to a building or a tree no amount of ATTGATT is going to help you.
As much as we like to assign blame for accidents to the other stupid drivers that cause the accident ultimately it is your responsibility not to let them hurt you. Pointing the blame finger after you are hurt or dead does not change the circumstances.
Ride safe, look ahead, always plan an escape route. Have a plan at all times for what to do when the other driver does something stupid and tries to hurt you. Don't let them, have an alternative ready.
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Sobering Thread.
my condolences to you for losing your friend.
My only trip in an ambulance ever was as a cyclist in the same situation. I was doing everything "right", wearing a helmet, obeying the law, and the position of the sun and a young driver conspired to take me out. Bike, and my shoulder were destroyed.
We take a chance every time we leave the house, fire up a power tool, step on a plane/train/bus.....
Before there were combustion engines people were dying in farm accidents.
Just gotta play it smart, make sure the people you love hear it from you, often, and keep moving.
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Have a plan at all times for what to do when the other driver does something stupid and tries to hurt you. Don't let them, have an alternative ready.
It's not always possible to escape. There is ALWAYS a window within which a left-turner WILL get you, no matter how careful you are or how slow you are going. The faster you are going, the bigger the "window of opportunity" for the cager to kill you will be, but it's always there. You can lower the odds with speed and alertness, but if someone turns across you and there's no way out, and you hit them and come across the hood and hit the road, your gear will minimize the damage.
Lannis
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While I agree that most crashes are preventable , fatalities and serious injuries are down significantly from 20 years ago , and there are more vehicles on the road , and speeds have generally increased . Maybe someone does care about the dangers of operating a motor vehicle , but there will always be inherent risks that accompany driving or riding . Life is dangerous , no one gets out alive .
Dusty
I agree with this and I'd be wary of further attempts to increase motorcycle safety -- any measures are not likely to involve putting cushions on cars or doing anything else to increase their expense. It will come by mandating changes to our rides and our behavior, not theirs.
We will benefit from further generalized safety features which are coming. Blind-spot detection technology is already on some cars and oncoming vehicle detectors are in test. I saw a presentation from one of the companies making enabling technology for autonomous vehicles and he talked specifically about bicycles and motorcycles and how they are a different challenge from either cars or pedestrians or animals.
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Sorry for your loss. Reminders like this are good for our little community here. Thanks for posting, it'll make me be more careful, your friend would want it that way to be sure!
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While I agree that most crashes are preventable , fatalities and serious injuries are down significantly from 20 years ago , and there are more vehicles on the road , and speeds have generally increased . Maybe someone does care about the dangers of operating a motor vehicle , but there will always be inherent risks that accompany driving or riding . Life is dangerous , no one gets out alive .
Dusty
Just because something has "inherent risks" and is "always dangerous" doesn't mean that we should stop trying to fix the obvious things to make it safer. I'm not talking about more air bags or collision-avoidance radar - I'm talking about the things that would prevent so many motorcyclists from getting killed just by rank, stupid, unnecessary incompetence or impairment by automobile drivers.
Flying an airplane has "inherent risks", matter of fact they have a whole dimension that isn't even a danger for a motorcyclist. But most of the risks have been taken out by training and by the attitude of the aviators.
There's still SO many things that could be done to lower the fatal collision rate by bikes that don't require anything but good common sense, and by a caring attitude on the part of car drivers. Right now, too many of them still "don't care". The butcher's bill is just "normal wastage". We're not going to make that go away just by saying "It's all our fault".
Lannis
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cost benefit ratios
probability and statistics
quality of life at "old" age
why take a chance?
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Through you by posting here, your friend taught us all a riding lesson until the very end. I'm sure he (or anyone) would've never seen it that way while alive, but I think that if his life/death can teach a few more of us out there to really watch out and expect the unexpected, maybe it would help ease the pain of his passing for his family and friends a little.
Sad news. Too much of it lately...
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Flying an airplane has "inherent risks", matter of fact they have a whole dimension that isn't even a danger for a motorcyclist. But most of the risks have been taken out by training and by the attitude of the aviators.
And pretty intense gov't regulations...
My opinion is nothing can be done to make drivers more aware of bikes. Many drivers and some riders don't pay attention . And for the rest of us it's circumstance that we met up with the inattentive driver who turns in front or rams from behind.
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If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more. When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away.
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We are all going to die. There are worse ways, numerous ones, than being on a motorcycle and enjoying the ride.
Hell of a lot better than wasting away in a bed somewhere.
If you don't want to die in a motorcycle crash, the only sure way to accomplish that is to never ride a motorcycle.
I get enough pleasure out of it (especially on a Guzzi!) to take that risk.
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Death is unlikely.... paralyzed or critically injured for the "rest of one's life"...
I have seen more of this than I care to as a medical professional....
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I am sorry for the loss of your friend, it sounds like he was a giving person to share his time and riding knowledge to help keep others safe. I have always been nervous when I come across a left turner and don't know for sure when he or she is going to go for it. The worst scenario seems to be when the mc is not in front but concealed behind one or two cars in a row. Never fails they will wait for the cars to pass and the go not expecting to find a bike in the group. I always drop back if I can in this situation to open up a gap so the turner can get a visual.
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If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more. When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away.
The pistol won't stop cars from turning left in front of you.... Isn't that the most common accident other than single bike accidents?
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HomeB,
Prayers for your friend's family. Not much to add. Personally I see my FIL right now sitting across from me. He is 77, has medium stage Alzheimer's and his life is mostly grim, sad, lonely and hopeless. I don't want to reach his stage.
Personally I would rather die like your friend--fast and while doing something I love, rather than fade out. Both my 94 year old mother, and my older brother are in very low quality of life, dismal situations.
Carpe Diem.
Make it Count.
15 work days left.
Hawaii before that.
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Personally I would rather die like your friend--fast and while doing something I love, rather than fade out.
Much easier said than done.
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We are all going to die. There are worse ways, numerous ones, than being on a motorcycle and enjoying the ride.
Hell of a lot better than wasting away in a bed somewhere.
If you don't want to die in a motorcycle crash, the only sure way to accomplish that is to never ride a motorcycle.
I get enough pleasure out of it (especially on a Guzzi!) to take that risk.
Well said -- we're all terminal, but the risk we knowingly take when we ride is what makes us different from all the rest of the sheeple. No disrespect to them, but we're not the same.
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:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother.. :evil:
One time in Junction I rode with a girl who put on full atgatt to ride across the street to the cafe. I asked her about it. She had bought a bike that was not tuned properly and would only go about 45 mph. She carefully learned carburetors and got it all tuned up. She finished the job and went out and got the bike up to about 70, at which time she experienced a full tilt knee slapping wallow, and went down. At the time she had on flip flops, a very tiny tube top, and some Daisy Dukes. At that point in the conversation, she showed me some of her scars, especially on her belly, chest, and thighs. It was very impressive. Every time I take a little test spin with less than ATGATT, I think about those scars. If I get hit by and vaporized by an 18 wheeler, that'll be ok. But all that skin bullshit is to be avoided.
I'm very sorry about your friend.
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If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more. When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away.
The reason this man died is the cage driver did not see him. If he didn't see the bike he surely would not have seen a 44 poking out of a holster from 100 feet away. My guess is the cyclist could have been carrying an assault rifle and he still would have been unseen and the cage still pulls into his right of way.
After buying a big red shinny Mille in 1991 I noticed quite a difference in how fewer people pulled out in front of me compare to my old 750 Ducati. I can only consider that the big red Mille with all its shinny chrome (as well as the big Bosch head light I installed) just makes me more visible. But I still have people pulling in front of me just far fewer all these years driving a red bike.
Really 44 magnums do not stop cage drivers from pulling into your right of way. Bad drivers pull into your right of way.
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:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother.. :evil:
About three weeks ago my younger son skidded to a low side on loose gravel at about 20 mph, he was wearing a helmet, gloves, boots but just a hoody and jeans. The crash bars and highway peg on a KLR650 took the brunt of the skid but his right arm and shin were badly skinned, his left arm skinned but not too bad. The road rash and gravel in his arm and leg looked horrible. My wife is a nurse and took care of the wounds, but he has deep scars. I no longer have to preach the ATGATT to him, sadly he had to learn the painful way. I see so many riders on sport bike with muscle shirts and no gloves, Russian Roulette in my opinion.
With respect to the poor fellow killed by an inattentive driver, well he probably didn't have a chance, bloody shame that some idiot took a life so senselessly
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The reason this man died is the cage driver did not see him.
.......... Bad drivers pull into your right of way.
Well, the first part may or may not be true. Sometimes I think drivers "see" bikes, but they pull out anyway, figuring that the thing ahead is something small and will just "bounce off" or will get out of the way or, maybe, just "screw him".
The second part is certainly true.
Lannis
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Terribly sorry for the loss of yet another among us. Noting can stop the ignorant and inattentive from shamming their way into accessing a driver's license. The little old lady in her Mercedes SUV that killed my friend this very summer is probably going to enjoy dim sum on Sunday. She should be in jail. And yes, I am bitter. Jay was/is a hero. 700 people who could attend his funeral thought so too. It was closed to many more because of the capacity of the building.
I have always held the belief that before one qualifies for four wheels and a safety cage you should have to spend 2 years riding a motorcycle. If it is too cold for you; take a bus and train over 5 summers. And let's match the penalty to the damage caused. A slap and a few thousand dollars in insurance hikes is nothing to the loss of that man in my world.
Sorry for the rant.
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:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal.
Good Lord, chip seal!
The Engineers that specify that stuff out to be drug 50 feet on it to understand the hazard that they're creating.
Funny how they wouldn't spec out a system on a road that would have the same effect on a car driver.
Thanks for letting me know the outcome though I do believe you were beat up a lot - from the chip.
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(Actually I like chip seal. It grips well in the wet)
It's always sad to hear of something like this event, yet the road toll can never be zero.
You know, there was a time when I used to ride up and down between Invercargill (home) and Auckland (where I was living at the time). It's about 1000 miles each way on a road I had traveled often. In the more boring parts I would often entertain myself by playing What If. What if this or that thing happens now. How to react? Where to go? What to do?
It was probably a valuable exercise, but there were many potential road events to which there simply was no answer. Sometimes I would scare myself so badly I had to stop for a smoke.
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Very sorry for your loss. I hope there was not much suffering. A toast to him, he must have saved a lot of suffering on the part of his students.
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I am sorry for the loss of your friend, it sounds like he was a giving person to share his time and riding knowledge to help keep others safe. I have always been nervous when I come across a left turner and don't know for sure when he or she is going to go for it. The worst scenario seems to be when the mc is not in front but concealed behind one or two cars in a row. Never fails they will wait for the cars to pass and the go not expecting to find a bike in the group. I always drop back if I can in this situation to open up a gap so the turner can get a visual.
That plus vary your lane position for visibility... :thumb:
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....Sometimes I think drivers "see" bikes, but they pull out anyway, figuring that the thing ahead is something small and will just "bounce off" or will get out of the way or, maybe, just "screw him".
I do believe this is true. I think there's an unconscious "I'm bigger than you" bias that comes into play. I've felt it in myself. Especially before I started riding motorcycles. I also think that good truck drivers fight against this reflex.
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American drivers are the worse of the western world by far, just look at the stats. This isn't because as a people we are deficient but because the training required for a license is a fking joke! It's a total failure! Combine this we the "Time is money" mentality and we have the formula for the disaster we live in.
I had a mini van make a left in front of me after originally stopping and waiting, i avoided the disaster by being good on the brakes and lucky enough to have on empty turning lane. After chasing her down and demanding an answer, she stated that she got confused because so much was her mind but was really sorry.
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Sorry for your loss.
For me it is also about risk management as well as skill and situational awareness.
I altered my work schedule to arrive and leave at the lowest traffic times of the day.
I avoid shopping districts, tourist areas, etc. as much as possible and try and find alternate routes and less travelled roads as much as possible.
A local lady was on a work trip in Maryland this past week and was killed along with her passenger when hit by a truck. They were in a rental car. So, it can happen to anyone, anytime.
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Sad news anytime this happens.
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Here's the deal fellas , the same folks who will turn left on an approaching motorbike will do the same thing to an oncoming semi truck . Ask any truck driver how many close calls they have in a weeks time :shocked: Hell , ask a railroad engineer how many times a vehicle , including large trucks , have pulled across in front of them , and that's with horns blowing and lights flashing .
Dusty
Difference only being that the bike loses every time.
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I stand by my earlier admonition.. "Don't *let* them hurt you".
If you think you cannot prevent other drivers from hurting you then you should not be driving. If you expect the other drivers to be reasonable and not do stupid crap to hurt you then you are bound for disappointment.
Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the way it is. Suck it up, drive safely, take responsibility, drive responsibly, drive defensively.
Nobody has more to do with your safety and happiness than you do.
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Sorry this happened to your friend. I almost got taken out by the left hand turner and tried to get around him but he decided to stop instead of keep going and I nailed his rear quarter panel, flew over the car and woke up in the oncoming lane. He "didn't see me" but then he did see me which was the problem.
"A total of 4,381 motorcyclists died in crashes in 2013."
"Our homes should be private sanctuaries of comfort, security and relaxation. But every year, more than 18,000 individuals in the United States die from home-related accidents."
Not to discount the dangers of riding but getting that bulb,etc. out of the top cabinet with a questionable ladder can kill you too.
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On my recent visit to Arkansas I did a bit of city riding without gear and enjoyed it allot.
I believe I went a little slower and was extra careful knowing the consequences' of a crash but its fun to have the option.
mike
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I stand by my earlier admonition.. "Don't *let* them hurt you".
If you think you cannot prevent other drivers from hurting you then you should not be driving. If you expect the other drivers to be reasonable and not do stupid crap to hurt you then you are bound for disappointment.
Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the way it is. Suck it up, drive safely, take responsibility, drive responsibly, drive defensively.
Nobody has more to do with your safety and happiness than you do.
Agreed...
comma BUT
There are times on many rides where you would have no place to go if somebody does something stupid. Maybe for just a fraction of a second.. but there ARE times where the best rider in the world couldn't save the situation. If you don't believe that.. as I first mentioned .. denial is strong with you. :smiley:
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Agreed...
comma BUT
There are times on many rides where you would have no place to go if somebody does something stupid. Maybe for just a fraction of a second.. but there ARE times where the best rider in the world couldn't save the situation. If you don't believe that.. as I first mentioned .. denial is strong with you. :smiley:
:1: to that.
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The idea is to look ahead and identify those windows so they don't catch you by surprise. Do everything you can to absolutely minimize the window, have a plan of what you are going to do if tshtf..
One small example is pulling up behind someone at a stop light. Make sure you leave enough space in front of you so that you can move and not be there if the guy behind you decides not to stop. Make sure you have some free space to ride in to on one side or the other, that you are in gear with the clutch pulled in for quick action and be ready to go in an instant if necessary, and that you do mirror checks frequently to look at the guy behind you and the guy behind him..
Without doing that if at a stop light someone rear-ends the guy behind you you are roadkill, the accident is absolutely not your fault but you are still roadkill. If you did not have an emergency escape plan ready that *was* your fault because there was an action you could have taken to avoid being injured but you were not prepared to take it.
In the left hand in front of you scenario the same thing applies, constantly be aware and alert, have a plan in place for what you are going to do if the stupid driver decides to bolt at the last minute, have an escape route planned in advance. At some point the plan may be how to minimize damage in a collision, but you should have that plan in your head.
This all sounds like a lot of things going on in your head, and it is, but with practice it gets pretty automatic.
I know, I am a cynic but it all boils down to the fact that *you* are the one that is responsible to ensure that you and your passengers are safe and comfortable. Nobody else - just you.
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Yesterday I could have taken out some women inexperienced bike riders with my car pulling a Guzzi on a trailer as I approached them @ 65 mph on Rte. 66. There was about 20? riders who were leaving a restaurant all together out in the middle of nowhere. They seemed to be more concerned with their positioning amongst each other than worrying about any vehicles coming down on them at the same time. They also seemed to be communicating by radio(leader with straggler?). I hit the brakes and had to change lanes to avoid 3 of them. I saw NONE of them looking my way to see if I was bearing down on them ! They were all just following each other like sheep. I was PISSED to see such idiocy !!! and let them know with hand jesters.(not middle finger) 1 of them flipped me the finger. :evil: NEVER flip a person the finger when you're on a bike and he's in a car. :wink: Lucky for him he was not alone or........ Anyway, I'm sure if you got their version of the incident I would have been the A-hole who tried to take them out. :copcar:
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Thanks for letting me know the outcome though I do believe you were beat up a lot - from the chip.
Not really. The only injury was to one knuckle where the chip/seal burned through the Aerostitch Elkskin Ropers. I thought they were pretty protective gloves.. :smiley: but not any more. I've worn nothing but race gloves with hard knuckle protection since. The mesh gear was trashed, as I mentioned, but the armor in the jacket and pants stayed in place. The Ropers have been relegated to lawn mower duty. :wink:
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American drivers are the worse of the western world by far, just look at the stats. This isn't because as a people we are deficient but because the training required for a license is a fking joke! It's a total failure! Combine this we the "Time is money" mentality and we have the formula for the disaster we live in.
I don't know what the state licensing requirements are by you, but around here they've changed DRAMATICALLY since I was a kid.
No permit until 16 and having completed a driver's training course.
A junior license at 17, with sundown clause and a bunch of other conditions, like I think you need to display a special sticker badge on the car when it's a student driver.
I know in PA they have to log a large amount of hours with their parents, a certain number of hours in the rain.
There might be restrictions on passengers with the junior license etc.
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liense requirements have changed drastically here to, also 16 *after* drivers ed or wait till you are 18. Back in the day I got my first full unrestricted license - not permit - at 13 so I could drive farm trucks. (yes, I am that old)
Meeting modern 13 year olds I am very glad they don't do that any more.
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I apologize to the O.P. for the thread drift. Any time we lose a rider from our community it is a tragedy no matter the circumstances. We should move the safety and license discussions to another thread. We can title it "Atavar the Curmudgeon" if you want.. :boxing:
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liense requirements have changed drastically here to, also 16 *after* drivers ed or wait till you are 18. Back in the day I got my first full unrestricted license - not permit - at 13 so I could drive farm trucks. (yes, I am that old)
Meeting modern 13 year olds I am very glad they don't do that any more.
Well, Curmrdgeon.. 13 year old kids aren't the same as they used to be. Kids used to be expected to be responsible, and most were. Not so much any more..
Yeah, I was driving corn to the elevator, etc. when I was just a pup.
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I apologize to the O.P. for the thread drift. Any time we lose a rider from our community it is a tragedy no matter the circumstances. We should move the safety and license discussions to another thread. We can title it "Atavar the Curmudgeon" if you want.. :boxing:
Steve was an old cuss and would have quite enjoyed a "kids today" discussion. :azn:
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Well, Curmrdgeon.. 13 year old kids aren't the same as they used to be. Kids used to be expected to be responsible, and most were. Not so much any more..
Yeah, I was driving corn to the elevator, etc. when I was just a pup.
I got my license in 1964 at the age of 17 in NJ. Like most of my friends I was a manic on bald skidmore bias ply tires as we tore up the streets in V8 56 Chevy's and Ford's . Driving so hard on back roads the brakes would fade away to nothing .Constantly drag racing on the streets and blowing up transmissions. We all smashed up a car at some point, most lived, a few not. And the girls in the back seat or in the bathroom or where ever :evil:....When I got drafted into the army I drove the equipment like I stole it. Then came the late 60's and serious street racing... Then street drag racing bikes .....It was exciting crazy times and somehow most lived through it...Then came responsibility..... :grin:
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I got my license in 1964 at the age of 17 in NJ. Like most of my friends I was a manic on bald skidmore bias ply tires as we tore up the streets in V8 56 Chevy's and Ford's . Driving so hard on back roads the brakes would fade away to nothing .Constantly drag racing on the streets and blowing up transmissions. We all smashed up a car at some point, most lived, a few not. And the girls in the back seat or in the bathroom or where ever :evil:....When I got drafted into the army I drove the equipment like I stole it. Then came the late 60's and serious street racing... Then street drag racing bikes .....It was exciting crazy times and somehow most lived through it...Then came responsibility..... :grin:
A little different for me. Had to work my teenage arse off for enough money to buy a motorcycle; if I wrecked it, I was walking, there was no money to replace anything I pranged.
Didn't smash up anything - watched some of my friends die painfully and uselessly as they "drove crazy". Always enjoyed the ride, seeing the country, being free when I was on the road. Just one girl was all I needed and still got her 40 years later .....
People get their "excitement" in different ways!
Lannis
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From reading The Hurt Report (Google it) in Motorcyclist Magazine many years ago, one thing I recall was that folks who 'don't see' motorcycles, don't ride one or have relatives that ride one.
A motorcycle doesn't 'register' in their environment.
Obit for author, Harry H Hurt:
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/article/harry-hurt-author-hurt-report-dies-heart-attack
Hurt was a lifelong motorcyclist. Born in 1927, he grew up and began riding as a kid in west Texas. His first motorcycle was a worn-out Cushman scooter that he brought back to life. Hurt graduated from Texas A&M University in 1950, and became a Navy pilot during the Korean War. After the war, Hurt loaded up his 1947 Harley-Davidson 61 and headed west for California. He completed a master's degree in aeronautical engineering at the University of Southern California (USC), and soon after he joined the faculty at USC.
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I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.
Do we know any specifics about this accident, other than left turn across his path? We are speculating about the possible existence, or non-existence, of escape windows, road conditions, his speed, etc. Do we know the pertinent facts?
I certainly didn't know the man, but I suspect that since he was so keen about AGATT, riding instruction, etc. he would understand that serious riders would want to know what happened to catch him out, in hopes that others might learn from his tragedy.
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Do we know any specifics about this accident, other than left turn across his path? We are speculating about the possible existence, or non-existence, of escape windows, road conditions, his speed, etc. Do we know the pertinent facts?
Yeah, but rather than start a "he coulda this, no he couldn't have, what about that" fight I'll simply say that I've been on the road where the minivan pulled out and caused the crash many times. It's a four-lane highway (two on each side), 45 MPH limit with good visibility on the highway itself. But this was a private driveway, wooded to the road on both sides. It's quite hidden from the road and the road is quite hidden from it. Steve would have been going the speed limit in any event but this was very close to a pretty high-security place -- everyone goes the speed limit because going 46 gets you a ticket.
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Yesterday I could have taken out some women inexperienced bike riders with my car pulling a Guzzi on a trailer as I approached them @ 65 mph on Rte. 66. There was about 20? riders who were leaving a restaurant all together out in the middle of nowhere. They seemed to be more concerned with their positioning amongst each other than worrying about any vehicles coming down on them at the same time. They also seemed to be communicating by radio(leader with straggler?). I hit the brakes and had to change lanes to avoid 3 of them. I saw NONE of them looking my way to see if I was bearing down on them ! They were all just following each other like sheep. I was PISSED to see such idiocy !!! and let them know with hand jesters.(not middle finger) 1 of them flipped me the finger. :evil: NEVER flip a person the finger when you're on a bike and he's in a car. :wink: Lucky for him he was not alone or........ Anyway, I'm sure if you got their version of the incident I would have been the A-hole who tried to take them out. :copcar:
Sounds like you saw them all doing this and the front riders had time to safely pull out, AND thought there was enough time for everyone to pull out.
Why didn't you slow down, and/or change lanes sooner? Sounds like you were another Cager at that moment instead of a rider.
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A little different for me. Had to work my teenage arse off for enough money to buy a motorcycle; if I wrecked it, I was walking, there was no money to replace anything I pranged.
Didn't smash up anything - watched some of my friends die painfully and uselessly as they "drove crazy". Always enjoyed the ride, seeing the country, being free when I was on the road. Just one girl was all I needed and still got her 40 years later .....
People get their "excitement" in different ways!
Lannis
I wish there was a LIKE feature on this forum. Thank you for that post Lannis. Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders as opposed to Bikers, Racers, and other Hooligans giving motorcyclists a bad name and reputation.
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I wish there was a LIKE feature on this forum. Thank you for that post Lannis. Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders as opposed to Bikers, Racers, and other Hooligans giving motorcyclists a bad name and reputation.
I don't think we want to get into that "Like" stuff; we just got rid of the Unfriend I mean "ignore" feature. Go too far and before you know it, it's the Guzzi version of TwitterFace or something ..... :grin:
Just trying to give a personal-experience counterpoint to the idea that, in order to have a "fun" and "fulfilling" life, you have to have a past filled with wrecks, speeding tickets, drugs, sex in public toilets, and cleaning out both ditches driving drunk all the time ... I've had an enormous amount of fun, and looking back (and forward) on a fulfilling life, without all that ....
Come to think of it, I probably just described a perfect night out for Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy!
Lannis
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I wish there was a LIKE feature on this forum. Thank you for that post Lannis. Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders as opposed to Bikers, Racers, and other Hooligans giving motorcyclists a bad name and reputation.
Looking back on the whole thing I can say I've been a Racer, done Hoolligan stuff and in my pan head days a biker. (I guess???)
But don't worry I am harmless now!
mike
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It is the management of risk that is rewarding . Racers don't want to crash , they want to find the limit W/O falling down . I never criticize anyone for staying in their skill set , but pushing to learn new parameters , safely , can be very rewarding . The odd thing , engaged spirited riding is probably safer than slowing to a point of boredom where the rider stops paying attention.
Dusty
I agree with all that. In the case of racers on a track, they won't find out where the limit is WITHOUT falling down, so they need to be ready to fall down at speed without maiming themselves or anyone else. Part of the game.
Finding those parameters on the street, however, is a different deal. The legality of it, I'm not commenting on because if I'm going 56 in a 55 I'm doing something illegal already.
How bad to get hurt is a personal decision - some bumps and bruises after falling on a track in an armored suit SEEMS to me to be a tradeoff a reasonable person might make. Being maimed for life, or dead at the age of 25, in the course of finding "your limits" in a world filled with wire guardrails, cars, and utility poles doesn't seem like a reasonable gamble.
And hurting someone else ... no question that that's wrong every time. On the track everyone knows and accepts the risks. On the street, I ought not share the risk of a drunk in a '57 Chevy sliding into my lane at 100 MPH as some younker shows off to his beehive-haired girlfriend ....
Lannis