Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: toukow on August 30, 2015, 08:45:07 AM
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Hello All: I've been wanting a Guzzi's for a long time, over 10 years. Not exactly sure why, perhaps the reputation of such a robust engine? My psychiatrist says it's a latent desire to hang out with somewhat quirky type people, go figure. Have a few books including Guzziology, but did I bother to review before shopping at this time- nope. I was trying to bottom feed for a bike on Craigslist, which is perhaps why I didn't study too much in advance. Can't be picky unless you're willing to spend the cash to be model/year specific.
Previously I test rode a $2000 1998 EV11 (I think that was the model) which was ratted out, had Kerker exhaust, had foot boards, and the toe-heel shifter. I've never used this style of shifter and made lots of mistakes. The feel was all wrong for me, including seat riding position so I passed.
So I saw an ad on Craigslist three weeks ago for a 1999 California Bassa for again $2000, with 16k miles. Pictures looked good, but weren't the best. I waited for it to disappear, and it didn't. So I arranged a meeting to go look after a week of listing figuring it's a sign from the Gods. Guy shows up and the bike looks good.
I take it for a test ride and I really liked the handling, very nimble for the size. More importantly, I realize it doesn't have foot boards, so I can use the toe-hill shifter like a standard bike. The seat has just been reupholstered so it looked great, and more importantly felt good. The chrome looked pitted, and it's obvious the guy hasn't even bothered to wash the bike. I realized that buying a bike that is so different from what you're used to riding makes it somewhat difficult to judge if there something is wrong with it. I hit many false neutrals, but figure that's not unreasonable for a bike brand newbie. That said, the shifting on this bike was far smoother than I had expected from descriptions (industrial, tractorish) I'd read over the years.
As many point out, a bike's worth is what you're willing to pay for it. Typically on CL around here people post their bikes at KBB retail prices, and this guy had listed at under the trade-in value. I didn't even haggle, the bike looked good enough so I just paid the man.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/IMAG00135-001.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/IMAG00135-001.jpg.html)
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/P1060787.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/P1060787.jpg.html)
Got her home and put her on the lift and started cleaning her up. I am amazed how well it's cleaning up. There was no pitted chrome, given it's mostly plastic it simply wiped off and was perfect. Paint is pretty much immaculate, with minor scratches on front fender. I'm extremely pleased so far on the deal, and really like how the solid color white makes the bike look compared with the two tone versions.
I'm do a lot of proactive maintenance on my bikes and tend to go overboard on such things, so have been reading posts on the various components. Retorqued the heads, valve adjust, new cables for throttle and clutch, new rear brake rotor (required), rear brake pads, new wheel bearings (probably wasting money here, but had them fail on my VFR at 22k miles), fuel and air filter, all fluids, new rear Metzler Lasertec as the existing had lots of tread but was 11 years old. Drained all the gas given the tank was off and intend on running only non-ethanol gasoline in her as I have a nearby source.
I found two of the valve cover bolts stripped, but I purchased a couple of bolts 5 mm longer and they appear to be holding securely. The electrically operated fuel petcock has been replaced with the screw type offered by MG Cycle. It has a 5 year old Odessy PC680 battery which I had tested and will keep running for now. Front master cyclinder was nearly empty and all the brake fluid looked very dark. I'll have to keep an eye on that to see if there is an issue.
Given I had the rear wheel off for tire replacement, I pulled the swingarm to inspect the cardan joint and grease the swingarm bearings. The cardan joint looked perfect, but was spinning in the carrier bearing. I put it in a vise as suggested in a Guzzitech article and looked for slop and there was some, as it rocked back and forth a bit. Not sure I made the right call, but A. your posts on catastrophic failure tend to put the fear of God in one and B. I have a tiny bit more money than time (and brains), so I bit the bullet and ordered new.
So after paying the registration, state sales tax and all the parts mentioned above, I'm at around $3100. That said, possible additions are a windscreen, saddle bags, crash bar (dropped my FJR in garage recently so this came to mind), and my kingdom for a center stand, so the number will climb probably.
Anyway, just introducing myself before hitting you with a few questions. Thanks for the help and reading, and my next posts will be shorter!! Dean
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Congrats, that's one of Guzzi's prettiest bikes and you stole it!!!! :thumb:
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Welcome aboard! Looks like you got yourself a sweet ride, ENJOY! John in Missouri
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Nice bike! ... Have a Blast!
Vrooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo ooommmmmmm
John in MN
BTW that's 3 Johns offering congratulations in a row hehehee!
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Sounds like your doing the right thing....
You got a great deal and a great bike.
Mark
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Nice, your into it for the right price. Most of the mounting hardware for the center stand should already be in place, get a used stand and I'll send you the springs for free.
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Brother ! Good bike, good deal.
Stripped valve cover hardware ? That's odd.
I've the same bike one year older with three times the miles on it - you can follow my adventures as advanced reconnaissance. My current thread regarding my charging woes contains a summary of what the two previous owners put into the bike, so there's a (somewhat) complete history of expected wear, which aligns with some of what you've done.
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Stripped valve cover hardware ? That's odd.
I've the same bike one year older
not really, probably the most common stripped bolt on a guzzi😄
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thats a beauty! welcome
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Congratulations on a great looking bike as others have pointed out you stole it, easily worth 3K IMHO
The stripped bolts are not a problem if they let go again just drill them out and use threaded inserts (the right name escapes me) for a permanent fix.
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Dean,
Welcome to the playground.
You got a killer deal there... good for you.
Ride 'em,
Rob
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Nice bike!
I can fully appreciate going though it and renewing anything questionable. At the least, you have a baseline moving forward. Always loved the look of the Bassa!
Best of luck
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Congrats!!!
Great first post!!!!!!!
Alan
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Thank you all very much for the very warm welcome, as well as the input on pricing. I've immersed myself so much into the search function on the forum that I feel I know some of you already. The forum has some VERY active members looking at the number of posts by some , which I guess reflects the passion many of you feel for the brand.
I'm breaking my promise of keeping the posts short, so apologize in advance.The current bike conditions is shown below. Just got the swingarm back in yesterday:
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/P1060819-001.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/P1060819-001.jpg.html)
As to the comment of the valve cover bolt threads being stripped, I noticed most of the cover bolts had deposits of aluminum on the starting threads. I bought a set of 'thread chasers' and am going to run them through each hole when I pull the cover again.
Nice, your into it for the right price. Most of the mounting hardware for the center stand should already be in place, get a used stand and I'll send you the springs for free.
Thanks, I will keep an eye out for the centerstand and may take you up on the offer of springs. In lieu of that luxury, I saw some great posts on making a lift for bikes without centerstands, including dimensioned drawing by Carl Allison- great job! After I started making the brackets, I found my ATV lift was abused and wouldn't work. It also did not rise straight up, which is desired when using the jack sitting on top of the bike lift.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/P1060815-001.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/P1060815-001.jpg.html)
So I got a $20 scissor jack from Harbor freight, and made the tube/bracket shown in the photo. It worked very well, but I do have the straps on the handlebars for stability while on the lift and blocked under the sump regardless. Glad I did the extra precaustions, as I was getting a bit physical when installing the swingarm (though it went in relatively smoothly following the comments on the forum).
Somewhat regretted jumping into buffing out the spoked rims, but given their condition there was little choice. Man, what a pain if you want to do it well. I'm trying just about everything I can find to make it easier, and will probably post on the matter after I'm done so that others can learn from my mistake(s). Once I started, I didn't see putting it back together until the buffing was complete, and I haven't even started the front. It wasn't encouraging that everything I've read says it will be constant battle keeping them from corroding henceforth! I'm going to try several applications of Klasse Sealant Glaze in hopes it will help some.
Questions and observations from the uniformed-
OK, I'm an idiot, but the instructions for tank removal do not say make sure the gas is below the level of the valve located near the steering head. I can pull the tanks on my other bikes while full. I thought there was some sort of check valve to stop gas leakage, but that was incorrect.
Heap as much abuse as you wish, but after polishing all the chrome plastic/metal and rims on this bike (I even went ahead and bought a bench top buffing machine from Harbor Freight! Please don't mention it to my riding friends, given my mouthing off on the subject over the years), she is going to be one of the most pampered garage queens you've ever seen, such that it may even make Harley owners envious!! OK, I admit Harley owners don't envy anything without the HD logo as part of their code, but she will be such a queen until the first unexpected rain squall is encountered. Usually takes about two weeks around here.
Would have been nice if Guzzi had kept the swingarm cover caps with the holes in them for locking the swingarm bearing pins. Probably because on this bike the pins use a 14mm hex, and there wouldn't have been much meat left in the cap to function as a locking mechanism.
Surprised to see that there is no preload adjustment on the rear shocks, given I'm a fat guy. And the fact that changing the shock can affect the linked brakes. I'm not going to worry about it too much. I didn't use OEM rear pads, so I've already changed the relationship given the different coefficient of friction from design. I'll experiment with the length of the spring to the brake valve to get what I'm comfortable with in the end.
I've found no definitive answer as to the design brake bias percentage for this 'Load Compensating' style of valve actuator. Proportional valve supposedly being 70% Front/30 % Rear (source Guzziology, page 19-54 with lots of caveats saying the percentages are not accurate in many cases/models), but not for the spring actuated valve. I infer that the intent was the same general 70/30 relationship. This system explained why when I got home after the buying it I said 'this thing has a fantastic rear brake!'. I'm traditionally a front braker, and can understand the concerns of being forced to apply the front brake when unwanted in low traction situations.
Question: Other than the decal on the side cover, what are the difference between the California Special and the Bassa? I've assumed mechanically that they are identical, with all parts interchangeable. When looking at parts am using the Special listing if Bassa is not shown as well.
Question: I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one of these bikes with a tank bag and certainly don't think it would enhance the looks. I don't really want to add saddle bags as I don't think I'll be touring it, but I need to figure out something. Are saddle bags about the only option for minor storage? Don't see anything sitting on the rear seat position like a tail bag given the seat size, but perhaps there is something available that would work there?
Well thank you all for letting me bore you once again and for the warm welcome. I'll try and post some useful information sooner or later, but really appreciate the resource the forum provides. I'm worried these bikes are somewhat addictive as I'm still looking at Craigslist for others!! Not in front of the wife, of course. So now to finish the buffing, pull the front forks for oil change and new wheel bearings, and then I may actually ride the damn thing!!!!! Thanks again, Dean
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Dang , what a strong showing dude :bow: Welcome to the clan .
Dusty
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Great introductory posting toukow! Welcome to the board!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/welcome%20couple_zpsdyzo4ejg.jpg)
Drop by for a cappicino and some almond puff cookies! :thumb:
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Dang that is a beauty! Congrats!!
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I've found no definitive answer as to the design brake bias percentage for this 'Load Compensating' style of valve actuator. supposedly less front when applying light pressure as in parking lots and more to the front under agressive pedal.
Question: Other than the decal on the side cover, what are the difference between the California Special and the Bassa? I've assumed mechanically that they are identical, with all parts interchangeable. When looking at parts am using the Special listing if Bassa is not shown as well.
Most cal SS had steel tube type rims and non adjustable forks, in fact accept for body work the EV etc are also nearly identical parts wise.
Question: I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one of these bikes with a tank bag and certainly don't think it would enhance the looks. I don't really want to add saddle bags as I don't think I'll be touring it, but I need to figure out something. Are saddle bags about the only option for minor storage? Don't see anything sitting on the rear seat position like a tail bag given the seat size, but perhaps there is something available that would work there?
tank bags
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/0/M/IMG_0500-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/A)
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-GNvMqwW/0/L/IMG_005-L.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-GNvMqwW/A)
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You asked for a picture with bags and fotoguzzi nailed it.
I have a Great Basin saddle bag by Giant Loop. They also make smaller bags, like the Coyote. Nice thing about these bags - no permanent hardware required. They sit on the bike where a passenger's hips and thighs would be. The bag is secured to the passenger footpegs. I like that I can use the same bag on any bike - could even fly with it if I want to rent a bike where I'm going.
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/LeMans%20Project/IMG_3548.jpg) (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/timscudder/media/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/LeMans%20Project/IMG_3548.jpg.html)
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Bassa's came out in 1999 featuring tubeless rims and adjustable forks. Around 2001 or 2002 they were renamed Specials losing the adjustable forks and going back to tubed wheels. then called Special Sports with a red/black tank and then a Gold/black tank ("Copper top"). Then they were called Aluminum and then Titanium. I'm not at home to consult my catalogs so a year it two might be off.
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Your posts are too long for even ME to read, which is ironic.
But fire your psychiatrist, you don't need him/her anymore...
... You're incurable. :boozing:
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But fire your psychiatrist, you don't need him/her anymore...
... You're incurable. :boozing:
LOL. But who wants to be cured from OMGD (Obsessive Moto Guzzi Disorder) anyway?
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tank bags
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/0/M/IMG_0500-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/A)
Thanks for the photos, that tank bag looks much better than I had hoped. I had pictured it at the highest point on the tank instead of back like that. I'll give that a go and buy a magnetic bag. Your hard luggage looks great as well! Thanks, Dean
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Your posts are too long for even ME to read, which is ironic.
But fire your psychiatrist, you don't need him/her anymore...
... You're incurable. :boozing:
While I agree I have easy solution, just skip 'em.
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I think your posts are just fine. Pay no attention to Kev..he's a closet knuckle draggin Harley guy, and probably can't read. :evil: :boozing:
I'm assuming that you *changed* the brake fluid? If so, you're probably the first one to do it to that bike. <shrug>
A bike just like yours (same color even) was my introduction to Guzzi.. a test ride at Bike Week. I bought a Centauro immediately after and have never looked back.
After your labor to go through it, it'll be reliable for years. :thumb: Cheap. (Guzzi content) welcome to WG, btw.
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I think your posts are just fine. Pay no attention to Kev..he's a closet knuckle draggin Harley guy, and probably can't read. :evil: :boozing:
I'm assuming that you *changed* the brake fluid? If so, you're probably the first one to do it to that bike. <shrug>
A bike just like yours (same color even) was my introduction to Guzzi.. a test ride at Bike Week. I bought a Centauro immediately after and have never looked back.
After your labor to go through it, it'll be reliable for years. :thumb: Cheap. (Guzzi content) welcome to WG, btw.
Thanks Chuck, I even tried not to use big words. Yeah, I changed everything from cables to wheel bearings to cush drive modification to.....well, sort of embarrassing actually. The front brake fluid was very low so I'll keep an eye on it, but I see no evidence of leaking at the calipers or elsewhere.
A few more photos to bore people.....
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/Bassa3.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/Bassa3.jpg.html)
I'll probably post on my mistakes doing the rims. That was a real pain and I think I have at least 16 hours labor in them. I learned the valuable lesson that a shinny spot in an overall satin finish stands out like a sore thumb. I then gave them 4 coats of Klasse Glaze Sealant. It remains to be seen how that will hold up, but being a garage queen it won't be a real test.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/Bassa1.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/Bassa1.jpg.html)
Gave the covers a go, looks better but I'm still learning to polish metal. The Harbor Freight buffer was well worth the $32 with discount coupon. Is that an aftermarket fin guard shown, or did they come from the factory with them?
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/P1070098.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/P1070098.jpg.html)
Very glad to read the thread about the plastic expanding in the gas caps. This thing was a mother and I was worried about breaking the key. The price for a replacement was very high, if I actually found the right unit. Works well now-that's red synthetic grease in the key hole.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/toukow/P1060789.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/toukow/media/P1060789.jpg.html)
Also appreciated the comments in another thread about the plastic chrome pieces falling off, as one of mine had started to break lose. I siliconed the inside as suggested, so hopefully that will secure them adequately.
Thanks for letting me bore ya..... Dean
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The bike is really looking great. Isn't amazing how much some polish or fine touches can improve the overall look - and then there's the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
I'm not bored. But let's see some pics in in her natural habitat - mountains, curvy roads, expansive views, etc. Time to go riding...
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Beautiful bike.
Although you can get static shots by the side of the road, we could go riding sometime and I could take some action shots of you riding it. Might be nice to have given the work you put into it.
James
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Congrats on a great deal on a beautiful bike!
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What a pile! You got screwed and not in the fun, happy way. But I'll help you out and give you $3500 for it. :cool: I have a black one,everybody knows they are faster! Welcome to the insanity!
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not really, probably the most common stripped bolt on a guzzi😄
Nah, that's got to be a crankcase drain plug (if you can consider that to be a bolt).
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Nice bike, and you're treating it well.
A point for the sake of a point: When you see your brake fluid level really low, get something and pry back the pads. Now check the fluid level. You may be looking at pad wear, not fluid loss. Watching the fluid level can save you a scored rotor.
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Nice bike, I bet that the stripped threads were on the screws fitted to the crash protector. What happens is the protector is fitted using the original screws but the thickness of the protector shortens the engagement of the screw.Fix by fitting a longer screw or fitting an insert.
Cheers, Voncrump
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Secure or keep an eye on the fake chrome plastic trim, including the fuel injector covers (re-inforce the inner surfaces of those--they will crack). All of those plastic pieces are prone to disappearance and expensive or impossible to replace. Otherwise a solid dependable bike. Enjoy it.
Rich A
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It looks like there is only one throttle cable. There was a recall to add a return cable.if the engine backfires thru the intake, it can move the injector aft where the linkage will foul upon the air box and cause the engine to not go to idle, causing the operator to "wad the machine up" . Before you do the recall yourself, get a copy of the instructions, it's not as simple as adding the cable. You have to add the threaded hole in the drum housing as well.
What Rich A says is true, the chrome plastic pieces need to be watched. Working some clear RTV under them has worked well for me.
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It looks like there is only one throttle cable. There was a recall to add a return cable.if the engine backfires thru the intake, it can move the injector aft where the linkage will foul upon the air box
So that's what causes the throttle to stick half open, it happened to my EV and I couldn't figure it out.
One more thing to check,
Remove the gas filler cap and dribble a few drops of light oil into the filler moat drain, it's connected to a pigtail like pipe that exits under the tank to drip on the hot engine. Its quite common for it to rust up so that any water collecting in the tank recess runs directly into the tank next fill up causing it to rust and plug off the fuel filter. If the oil runs away it will coat the inside of the pigtail, if not drill it out using a length of inner cable in a drill.
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You all bring up some interesting points-
I'm not bored. But let's see some pics in in her natural habitat - mountains, curvy roads, expansive views, etc. Time to go riding...
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. You guys actually ride these bikes? Hmmm. I thought about taking her out during the inch of rain yesterday, but thought better of it as the FJR (w/ABS) is the dedicated rain bike. Your point is taken but that said, I do collect (in a very small way) and work on bikes as a hobby and ride every weekday, just not this bike. I do in a minor way regret not doing the work in the winter, but all you have to do is read horror stories of cardan joint failures, seized cush drives and associated damage, valves out of spec, etc. to decide to address the issues on a new used bike so that you can forget about them in the future. And yes, forums tend to emphasize things disproportionately to the probability of such issues.
And to your point- while working on this bike I only ran it for short periods to test some of the work. When I pulled the valve covers again the oil up top was a bit milky, and had less than 10 miles and 3 weeks on it after oil and filter change. One nice thing about air cooled is I didn't have to wonder about coolant. A guy at work said his air cooled KTM always has milky looking oil, but I've never seen this on my water cooled bikes. Do you guys tend to see milky oil residue under the valve covers, or don't you ever run them without doing an Iron Butt or the like after breakfast?
A point for the sake of a point: When you see your brake fluid level really low, get something and pry back the pads. Now check the fluid level. You may be looking at pad wear, not fluid loss. Watching the fluid level can save you a scored rotor.
The front pads were fine at about 50% or more of life remaining. The wear could account for the fluid loss as you note, and I hope that's the case, but wonder with only one hose compared to usual on the front reservoir? The rear rotor was out of spec and the pads gone, so they have been replaced. As noted by another, I think this was the first time the fluid was ever changed on the bike, though my Tuono fluid changes color about 12 mintues after you change it. It looked pretty bad both front and rear.
Nice bike, I bet that the stripped threads were on the screws fitted to the crash protector. What happens is the protector is fitted using the original screws but the thickness of the protector shortens the engagement of the screw.Fix by fitting a longer screw or fitting an insert.
That seems spot on, as buying 5mm longer bolts did solve the situation. It was the most forward and aft screws in the protector. I was trying to avoid the insert, but will do it if it comes to that.
including the fuel injector covers (re-inforce the inner surfaces of those--they will crack)
I have not addressed these, having thought that the issue is with plastic pieces and mine appear to be metal. I'll pull them off and try and reinforce them with JB Weld or the silicone at a minimum.
It looks like there is only one throttle cable. There was a recall to add a return cable.
I wondered about the single cable design, as I've never seen such a design before that I remember. It was part of the reason I replaced the throttle cable along with the clutch cable. I'll check on the recall with Moto International this week, as you're the first to mention it-thanks!
Thanks for the education everyone, Dean
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I have to say that's one lucky bike!
Welcome, Dean!
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I have to say that's one lucky bike!
Welcome, Dean!
Thank you Sir!
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It looks like there is only one throttle cable. There was a recall to add a return cable.if the engine backfires thru the intake, it can move the injector aft where the linkage will foul upon the air box and cause the engine to not go to idle, causing the operator to "wad the machine up" . Before you do the recall yourself, get a copy of the instructions, it's not as simple as adding the cable. You have to add the threaded hole in the drum housing as well.
What Rich A says is true, the chrome plastic pieces need to be watched. Working some clear RTV under them has worked well for me.
Pay attention. This is what put John Lloyd (RIP, really good guy) under the dirt. :sad: :sad: Apparently, the throttle didn't close when it should have. Mark at MGC still has the bike.. says he won't sell it.
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" There was a recall to add a return cable.if the engine backfires thru the intake, it can move the injector aft where the linkage will foul upon the air box and cause the engine to not go to idle, causing the operator to "wad the machine up" "
I've not heard of that before. I believe I'll take a look down there.
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Pay attention. This is what put John Lloyd (RIP, really good guy) under the dirt. :sad: :sad: Apparently, the throttle didn't close when it should have. Mark at MGC still has the bike.. says he won't sell it.
I'll contact Moto International on the issue today. On the face of it in our litigious world, I'm surprised such a design was implemented. Was this approach used on other models? Only in 99? Just curious. I'll report back on the recall, perhaps in a separate post on the matter. Thanks, Dean
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I have peered into the darkness and seen an apparent two cables at work, one when I open the throttle and another when I release it.
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As I recall, you need a somewhat odd-sized tap to install the return cable.
Rich A
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Yeah it was oddball and I ordered one . only time I will ever use it unless you want to roll by and do it here. I could loan it to you you'll have to remind me the size.
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2000 Bassa here, and only one cable. Was there a recall? Is the 2000 a different system?
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Yes, there was a recall for the 2000 Bassa (I have one) for the return throttle cable.
Rich A