Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joep7 on September 07, 2015, 12:00:54 PM
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hello all, please see my intro in the new members thread.
I am considering driving a good distance to pick up this 850t. Bike is a basket case and will be a long term project. Price is very cheap.
Am I ever going to get this thing in working order or should I find a better project? I have experience restoring old Yamaha two strokers as well as riding and maintaining a modern guzzi.
Thanks for any input offered. I am most concerned about part availability.
Here is link.
http://www.caferacer.net/forum/bikes-sale/25253-moto-guzzi-t3-850-project.html
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Even if the owner paid you $5K to take it you'd be better off getting something that actually runs and is not such a rust heap. There are posters here who have done 100% rebuilds (what this will need) and they can give you the gory details. If you are serious about an older Guzzi there was an Eldorado for sale at the Ohio rally, a runner that appeared to be in good shape. Now, if you just want to make some kind of chopper/bobber/cafe there are newer donor bikes to consider. After conversion the value will be much less than what you have invested, probably less so for the newer machine vs one that could be considered a classic.
Peter Y.
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There is a Cal 2 in the classifieds for $2200, a 1997 Cal 1100i on eBay for $2700 and a lot more that would make a lot more sense. Just sit at your kitchen table and burn dollar bills. This way you can have the same feeling and not even have to waste your time going to pick it up.
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This is a parts bike, and not a very good one of those .....
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If you bought that bike, you'd just be acting as a garbage removal service.
Rich A
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Even if the owner paid you $5K to take it you'd be better off getting something that actually runs and is not such a rust heap. There are posters here who have done 100% rebuilds (what this will need) and they can give you the gory details. If you are serious about an older Guzzi there was an Eldorado for sale at the Ohio rally, a runner that appeared to be in good shape. Now, if you just want to make some kind of chopper/bobber/cafe there are newer donor bikes to consider. After conversion the value will be much less than what you have invested, probably less so for the newer machine vs one that could be considered a classic.
Peter Y.
That is very similar to the advise I give me on some of the other forums where I am one of the more informed :) if I was actually looking for a ground up resto....possibly a tasteful (period correct with safety upgrades) resto mod would this be a terrible platform from a part availability standpoint? I know Yamaha two strokes very well....I just don't know guzzi well enough yet to know what models and years can share parts.
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Haha alright that's the the kind of unified response I was hoping for.
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Driving a "good distance", assuming you do it in a day I am guessing 800 miles round trip in a PU or dragging a trailer with 20-25 miles/gallon. So add that to your cost. Even with dirt cheap $2.25 gallon gas you are looking at $100 in starting fees just in gas. I see nothing on that bike that is not completely and totally rusted/oxidized and or otherwise junk. It is beyond barn find and into the realm of really scrap metal. I hope this is not to strong language as I do not want to sound like I am putting you down. I think the question was should I punch the ticket?
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I wouldn't touch that as a first guzzi project (and an experienced person wouldn't touch it at all). There are more cooties than parts in the pile and it's priced $1000 too high. I'd need a picture of the front of the engine before deciding if it's even the right one for the bike. You'd be much better off spending more $$$ and getting more potential.
$0.02
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There is a Cal 2 in the classifieds for $2200, a 1997 Cal 1100i on eBay for $2700 and a lot more that would make a lot more sense. Just sit at your kitchen table and burn dollar bills. This way you can have the same feeling and not even have to waste your time going to pick it up.
The Cali 2 looks like a touring/cruiser from the 80's ,but, it can be turned into quite a stunning Café type bike.
I would not have guessed it by looking at it,but, then I'm not as talented like some of the builders that do this kind of thing.
Google around you'll be surprised at how versatile a platform the Cali 2 is for what ever style Guzzi you are thinking of building.
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I will look into those other ones mentioned. I would never touch a a run of the mill two stroke in that condition. But if I found a tz or td in that shape I would snatch it up tomorrow. I am still learning the value of these old guzzis and it sounds like they aren't rare enough to make a completely basket case worth the time. Thanks for the education.
I am not looking to build a cafe, more of a sport touring which is why I gravitated to the 850 t or t3. But I would consider other models from the era.
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I will look into those other ones mentioned. I would never touch a a run of the mill two stroke in that condition. But if I found a tz or td in that shape I would snatch it up tomorrow. I am still learning the value of these old guzzis and it sounds like they aren't rare enough to make a completely basket case worth the time. Thanks for the education.
I am not looking to build a cafe, more of a sport touring which is why I gravitated to the 850 t or t3. But I would consider other models from the era.
Smart decision. You'd be wasting your time and a LOT of $$$$ to get that POS back in top condition. Not worth the effort even if the seller paid you to take it away.
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hello all, please see my intro in the new members thread.
I am considering driving a good distance to pick up this 850t. Bike is a basket case and will be a long term project. Price is very cheap.
Am I ever going to get this thing in working order or should I find a better project? I have experience restoring old Yamaha two strokers as well as riding and maintaining a modern guzzi.
Thanks for any input offered. I am most concerned about part availability.
Here is link.
http://www.caferacer.net/forum/bikes-sale/25253-moto-guzzi-t3-850-project.html
Ever see the movie the Money Pit? Best to find a running 850 T-3 prices range from $2500-$3000ish .. best be retired have 12 hrs a day for about a month to sort thru it and feel safe to do a 1000 mile round trip ride. LOL
Don't ask How I know..
leroy in Cleveland
Ps really I am a glutton for punishment and got a Convert too. Look at what to expect from a running bike in my shutterfly links below
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I got a kick out of the seller's statement, "The shady italian guys at Moto Guzzi built a replica Honda." Hopefully this was said in jest.
I might give $50 for this, if I didn't have to drive more than a few minutes to get it, just to pick through the parts and save anything of use which I might use later. I wouldn't try to use it as a base for a restoration.
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I'd pay a couple hundred bucks for the title and haul the rest away for free.
Looking at the bike in its current state you easily spend $4,000 getting it up and running probably a lot more once you opened the motor, transmission and read drive. It certainly isn't beyond the point of no return but it will take a bathtub full of cast to get it sorted.
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I would say better used as a boat anchor.
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I got a kick out of the seller's statement, "The shady italian guys at Moto Guzzi built a replica Honda." Hopefully this was said in jest.
I might give $50 for this, if I didn't have to drive more than a few minutes to get it, just to pick through the parts and save anything of use which I might use later. I wouldn't try to use it as a base for a restoration.
He was joking. You wouldn't believe the morons we run into at that site. Lots of bandwagon hipsters who have no clue.
I agree....and there's nothing more expensive than a free motorcycle. I am definitely not a noob. Like I said, I just don't know the value of these things yet.
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He was joking. You wouldn't believe the morons we run into at that site. Lots of bandwagon hipsters who have no clue.
I agree....and there's nothing more expensive than a free motorcycle. I am definitely not a noob. Like I said, I just don't know the value of these things yet.
Here's something instructive you could do in preparation for a Guzzi restoration -
Peruse this thread -
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69343.0
Excellent pictorial story and excellent examples of things you'll find down in a Guzzi (altho this one is a small-block) and how it's dealt with .....
Lannis
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I'm building an 850T from less than what was in the picture you shared. It does cost way more $$$$ than a good running bike, but if the bike ever fails I know where to point the finger at :) It's a sickness I caught from my brother and his friends
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As has been said, the bike you're considering is a parts bike. And some of the worthwhile parts are already gone (headlight, bags, etc.). For someone in need of a parts bike or donor, this might be worth a hundred dollars or two. As a restoration project, free is too expensive. And it only gets worse if you spend a day or so driving to fetch it.
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If money is not a problem , go get it.
If you want to play with a bike and still be on a budget , you better off buy something decent and just modify it aesthetically to get where you willing to go.
Plenty of fishes in the sea.
good luck
http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/mcy/5135812051.html
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/5164155426.html
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/5190302937.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/mcy/5146163541.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/mcy/5193280828.html
http://easternshore.craigslist.org/mcy/5145991639.html
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Here's something instructive you could do in preparation for a Guzzi restoration -
Peruse this thread -
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69343.0
Excellent pictorial story and excellent examples of things you'll find down in a Guzzi (altho this one is a small-block) and how it's dealt with .....
Lannis
Thanks for the link. Appreciated.
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Thanks for the link. Appreciated.
I've mentioned before that sometimes free is too much. This is another of those.. :smiley:
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I've mentioned before that sometimes free is too much. This is another of those.. :smiley:
Thanks chuck. Where ya from? :)
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. Bike is a basket case and will be a long term project.
Understatement of the month!
welcome to WG.
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Joep7
Welcome to WG
I started out thinking the same thing. My 73 ELDO WAS A RUSTY leaking, but rideable hulk.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/soHPIP.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/exsoHPIPj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/MrRZYN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/paMrRZYNj)
14 months and 16 grand later here it is.{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252
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\f0\fs22 \cf2 \expnd0\expndtw0\kerning0
\outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/soHPIP.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/exsoHPIPj)\
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/MrRZYN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/paMrRZYNj)}
Now after 10,000 miles I still love it, however, it is now for sale for 8800.00. Bad right arm says I cannot pull the front brake
I know I went over the top with the build, very easy to get carried away
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Kent beat me to it. It looks like it has been used as an anchor on a shrimp boat. But then some people like restoring shrimp boat anchors....
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Joep7
Welcome to WG
I started out thinking the same thing. My 73 ELDO WAS A RUSTY leaking, but rideable hulk.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/soHPIP.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/exsoHPIPj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/MrRZYN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/paMrRZYNj)
14 months and 16 grand later here it is.{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252
{\fonttbl\f0\fnil\fcharset0 .HelveticaNeueInter face-Regular;}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;\red71\green71\blue71;}
\deftab720
\pard\pardeftab720\sl360\partightenfactor0
\f0\fs22 \cf2 \expnd0\expndtw0\kerning0
\outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/soHPIP.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/exsoHPIPj)\
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/MrRZYN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/paMrRZYNj)}
Now after 10,000 miles I still love it, however, it is now for sale for 8800.00. Bad right arm says I cannot pull the front brake
I know I went over the top with the build, very easy to get carried away
Beautiful. I wish I could just buy it from you. Amazing job on the restoration. Sorry you can't keep enjoying it.
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Might want to check out a one owner v7 sport listed in the swap section.
I'll check that out thanks.
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Project motor vehicles, regardless of the kind, unless there is an established collector base or it is a flip condition thing, aren't investments in any sense of the word. Even if you manage to recover the materials costs, as an investment you must also recoup labor costs, including your own. If you just like rebuilding things, its a hobby, not an investment.
I think the OP was asking about difficulty and the availability of materials and parts, not to see if he was going to get his money back or even turn a profit.
What is a royal pain and misery to one person is pure joy to another. It might cost many thousands more than it would be worth in a sale but just how many Moto Guzzis are there that appreciate in value even in garaged condition?
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Project motor vehicles, regardless of the kind, unless there is an established collector base or it is a flip condition thing, aren't investments in any sense of the word. Even if you manage to recover the materials costs, as an investment you must also recoup labor costs, including your own. If you just like rebuilding things, its a hobby, not an investment.
I think the OP was asking about difficulty and the availability of materials and parts, not to see if he was going to get his money back or even turn a profit.
What is a royal pain and misery to one person is pure joy to another. It might cost many thousands more than it would be worth in a sale but just how many Moto Guzzis are there that appreciate in value even in garaged condition?
You are correct. I am not looking for ROI. However I do have time and money constraints and while I do want a project, if a better example can be found for decently cheap them I am glad I was steered away from this purchase. I was under the impression they are becoming very difficult to find, but it sounds like I shouldn't be that desperate as of yet.
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The early T variants are among the most numerous of the guzzi models. With patience, you should be able to pick your price/condition (within reason) on any of the '70s model years.
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If that 850-T was local and I could get it for $400 I would take it in a second. But then, an 850-T was my first bike and I've had Guzzis for years, so I'm not necessarily afraid of it.
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If that 850-T was local and I could get it for $400 I would take it in a second. But then, an 850-T was my first bike and I've had Guzzis for years, so I'm not necessarily afraid of it.
The tentative deal I had made was 450 if I picked it up. But only if I got the bags. I have a friend that flies to the area every few weeks. I was gonna hitcha ride and drive it back. Still think it's probably a bad idea tho :)
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The early T variants are among the most numerous of the guzzi models. With patience, you should be able to pick your price/condition (within reason) on any of the '70s model years.
This .
The claims of rarity always seem like nothing more than a sales pitch .
Dusty
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This .
The claims of rarity always seem like nothing more than a sales pitch .
Dusty
And it gets worse as time goes on.
10 years ago, ads for BSA Firebird Scramblers (I have one of the 1000+ made) said "One of only 500 made".
Five years ago, the standard was down to 300. "One of only 300 made".
The last two I saw, it was down to 200. People read each other's lies and just repeat them ....
I'm sure Guzzis will go the same way. Why, I used to own one of the 5 Centauros they ever imported here ....
Lannis
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And it gets worse as time goes on.
10 years ago, ads for BSA Firebird Scramblers (I have one of the 1000+ made) said "One of only 500 made".
Five years ago, the standard was down to 300. "One of only 300 made".
The last two I saw, it was down to 200. People read each other's lies and just repeat them ....
I'm sure Guzzis will go the same way. Why, I used to own one of the 5 Centauros they ever imported here ....
Lannis
Yeah , the 1977 Silver Jubilee and 1979 T140 D Special Bonneville Triumphs are apparently down to a production count of
50 or so . One ad from a few years ago made me squirm . Guy had a late B50 , the one that BSA falsely badged as a Goldie. The ad claimed something like , "Buy this ultra rare BSA Gold Star , only 100 built this year" . True about the number maybe , but it never was or will be a Goldie .
Dusty
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hello all, please see my intro in the new members thread.
I am considering driving a good distance to pick up this 850t. Bike is a basket case and will be a long term project. Price is very cheap.
Am I ever going to get this thing in working order or should I find a better project? I have experience restoring old Yamaha two strokers as well as riding and maintaining a modern guzzi.
Thanks for any input offered. I am most concerned about part availability.
Here is link.
http://www.caferacer.net/forum/bikes-sale/25253-moto-guzzi-t3-850-project.html
Run away!! Fast!! There are way better project bikes out there.
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Yeah , the 1977 Silver Jubilee and 1979 T140 D Special Bonneville Triumphs are apparently down to a production count of
50 or so . One ad from a few years ago made me squirm . Guy had a late B50 , the one that BSA falsely badged as a Goldie. The ad claimed something like , "Buy this ultra rare BSA Gold Star , only 100 built this year" . True about the number maybe , but it never was or will be a Goldie .
Dusty
Well, BSA owned the name "Gold Star", and if they wanted to stick it on a unit 500 and pollute the Gold Star brand, it's their business. (Business - something BSA was terrible at!).
If you want to get a Gold Star Guy upset, just refer to a '71 - '72 500 single as a Gold Star. "But look, it has the BSA decal right here on the side cover, it IS a Gold Star!" They go into a blind frothing-at-the-mouth rage, they can't help it.
BSA imported to the USA thousands of the 5700 that they built, nothing rare about them, although I will say that most of them ended up getting beat to death on cow trails or on motocross tracks, so nice ones are hard to find. Projects are all around .....
Lannis
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I was gonna hitcha ride and drive it back. Still think it's probably a bad idea tho :)
Enzo?
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Enzo?
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?
A famous ex WGer . I think Foto read your idea of driving the bike back home as meaning literally riding it back . It did kind of read that way , and obviously the MC isn't anywhere near riding condition :grin:
Dusty
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An INfamous ex WGer . I think Foto read your idea of driving the bike back home as meaning literally riding it back . It did kind of read that way , and obviously the MC isn't anywhere near riding condition :grin:
Dusty
Fixed it for you!
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Fixed it for you!
Yeah , that's better . Anyway Enzo is an EX member , and one must work pretty damn hard to raise the ire of Luap .
Dusty
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A famous ex WGer . I think Foto read your idea of driving the bike back home as meaning literally riding it back . It did kind of read that way , and obviously the MC isn't anywhere near riding condition :grin:
Dusty
I think Michigan is mainly downhill from NY... ;)
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I think Michigan is mainly downhill from NY... ;)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah , but ya got that big old pond to deal with :grin:
Dusty
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Seller here.
You guys are 100% right.
This is a huge project best suited for a guzzi person.
Would not be a first guzzi and a really bad first project.
If anyone has any interest in it please feel free to reach out.
Super motivated to get it out of my garage.
This weekend I might start listing some parts and throwing the junk away.
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Surffly , let us be honest here . This bike does not qualify as a project , it is a rusted pile of parts with a seized motor . Someone might offer 100 bucks and haul it away , and that would be generous .
Dusty
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Surffly , let us be honest here . This bike does not qualify as a project , it is a rusted pile of parts with a seized motor . Someone might offer 100 bucks and haul it away , and that would be generous .
Dusty
The frame and title is worth the $100 and the parts are a bonus, but a friend is 550 miles round trip to ALBANY Ny . Thats maybe 150 bucks for gas , lunch his time on the road , would you help load and throw in a case of beer?
Leroy in Cleveland
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The frame and title is worth the $100 and the parts are a bonus, but a friend is 550 miles round trip to ALBANY Ny . Thats maybe 150 bucks for gas , lunch his time on the road , would you help load and throw in a case of beer?
Leroy in Cleveland
Leroy , I'm trying to make someone a good deal here :grin:
Dusty
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Leroy , I'm trying to make someone a good deal here :grin:
Dusty
Ok should he raise my SUGGESTION by a KFC Bucket of chicken will all the sides for the drive home? :thumb:
Leroy in Cleveland
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I can Vouch for surffly. He is a good guy and seriously into all the good things about viintage bikes. Guzzis just aren't his thing. He is contributing member on some of the other sites I'm on and has very much the same attitude as most of the members here have.
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Semantics.
But if parts bike is the term then no hurt feelings.
No one is going to buy this and turn it into a running bike without many parts.
Like I said it is best suited for a guzzi person.
Maybe you have a worse bike and can build one out of two.
Maybe this has the parts to fill in the whole on another.
Is it worth $700?
Not a chance.
Is there zero value?
Not a chance either.
I agree that it is in a funny place.
Someone will value a trifled frame by itself.
But as a parts bike like this they want it for less because of the burden of dealing with the "junk"
I would be more then happy to help load and even more so to buy the nut that wants this a beer and some food.
Not trying to get rich.
Just trying to find someone that needs some stuff.
Honestly thought this would work better as a trade deal.
Anyone have a brit bike motor? Maybe a pile of junk bsa?
How about some real blashemy....Honda SOHC parts?
I need some eye/eye shocks for my Seeley.
Some whitworth tools?
Something else?
Anyone just waiting till this thing gets parted out?
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I can Vouch for surffly. He is a good guy and seriously into all the good things about viintage bikes. Guzzis just aren't his thing. He is contributing member on some of the other sites I'm on and has very much the same attitude as most of the members here have.
I would like a guzzi one day.
This just isn't going to be put to any use by me. Other projects in front of the guzzi itch.
Playing the Norton game hard right now.
The basket case Seeley is kicking my butt too.
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I got my first basket case for $50. a tree had fallen on it when parked against his wood pile.
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-XDKkXtD/0/L/cycles-L.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-XDKkXtD/A)
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Just my .02 Euros...
The rear wheel and brake are quite sought after by V700/Ambo/Eldo owners looking to add a cush drive. Last one I sold brought $175 and went to Italy.
The front wheel could bring as much as $200.
If the rear drive has a good ring and pinion, then it's worth ~ $450.
Same with the transmission - if good, ~ $300-$400.
Doesn't take long to make a profit, even on something so rough, especially if it's bought right.
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Just my .02 Euros...
The rear wheel and brake are quite sought after by V700/Ambo/Eldo owners looking to add a cush drive. Last one I sold brought $175 and went to Italy.
The front wheel could bring as much as $200.
If the rear drive has a good ring and pinion, then it's worth ~ $450.
Same with the transmission - if good, ~ $300-$400.
Doesn't take long to make a profit, even on something so rough, especially if it's bought right.
Right, but that person has to want to spend the time and tie up the space.
It seems that few want to.