Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: RayB on September 14, 2015, 09:53:03 PM
-
In a previou thread KevM and others mentioned that if running 80 mph on the slab all day, then the v7 is not the tool.
If the v7 is the closest thing to what an airhead would be today, why wouldn't it be useful to run the interstate? Now my airhead can run all day at 80mph or 4500 rpm. Would a v7 grenade if pushed that hard or would it just be buzzy?
The reason I ask is I'd like to get a v7 to replace my EV but not if it can't do interstate work.
-
In a previou thread KevM and others mentioned that if running 80 mph on the slab all day, then the v7 is not the tool.
If the v7 is the closest thing to what an airhead would be today, why wouldn't it be useful to run the interstate? Now my airhead can run all day at 80mph or 4500 rpm. Would a v7 grenade if pushed that hard or would it just be buzzy?
The reason I ask is I'd like to get a v7 to replace my EV but not if it can't do interstate work.
It gets along just fine at 80mph. Settles in nice and will run all day there. Just a little shy on horsepower. Like if you are merging on an on ramp, with the wind blowing right in your face at 30 mph, (Oklahoma), it kind of runs out of juice. So it wont grenade, or buzz. But it could use a little more oomph...
-
Ok thanks. I don't own one and am just curious.
-
Having owned a couple of R 100 Beemers , no , a V7 won't lope down the highway like a 1000 CC BMW . For that you are gonna need the other bike you own .
It gets along just fine at 80mph. Settles in nice and will run all day there. Just a little shy on horsepower. Like if you are merging on an on ramp, with the wind blowing right in your face at 30 mph, (Oklahoma), it kind of runs out of juice. So it wont grenade, or buzz. But it could use a little more oomph...
A few days this summer we would have loved to have some of that Western Oklahoma wind over here in my part of Okiehomie .
Dusty
-
Still breaking in my '16 V7, but with the 6 speed, it had no problems at 75 mph going up steep climbs into the Washington Cascades. Plenty of power and a dead smooth engine. I don't see a problem. Last bike was a R1200RT. A naked bike is certainly a different experience. But I don't feel like the V7 can't handle it. And the V7 is a lot more entertaining on slower, tighter roads.
-
I'm on my second V7, and they're fine at interstate speeds.
Ran mine 75-80 mph on the way home from work this afternoon. 4500-5000 rpm, and the bike loves it.
No "long" trips on the new bike, but planning to run it over to Tulsa soon. 120 miles on 75 mph roads.
I'll be sure and report back.
-
I did about 3 hours this weekend on my '14 V7 Racer, Not bad, hands got a little stiff, and butt was a little sore. I was with a bunch of 100hp+ sport bikes tho, so I certainly felt the lack of acceleration power when they'd take off or pass. Felt the wind too, even with a Dart Marlin Flyscreen.
Doing the Cannonball 500 (km) next weekend. Picked up a wrist rest for the throttle, see if that helps my hands/wrists. Looking for something to put on the stock racer seat to make longer rides a little more comfortable.
-
In 2013, I rode my V7 Stone from Naples to Vicenza (~720km) and back the next day at 80+ MPH the whole way. Ran perfect. Wouldn't hesitate to ride that distance again, or even further, on the V7. Excellent machine, period.
-
I use a throttle lock, incidentally make by a guzzista here in Sydney in his garage & available here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-Throttle-Lock-Cruise-Control-Wrist-Rest-V3-Factory-Second-Item-/111771469173
On my recent trip to the Flinders Ranges on the V7 Special, we had a lot of long, straight country "highways" in between places of interest. 2 days to Broken Hill (1200k/745m), a day to Adelaide (550k/340m), a day to the Flinders (580k/360m), 2 days to get to an easy ride of Sydney (1200k/640m). We went a bit faster on the way out, and day 2 was done at 5,000 - 5,500rpm, but settled into riding at 4,000 - 4,500 rpm - all day. Admittedly these are not GS distances, even in the short days of winter, but there was no buzziness, nor seat or wrist pains, and easily handled, with around 100 miles between stops - not because we had to, just rider preference; we were on a holiday. The V7 does it comfortably, but the big blocks do have more acceleration in reserve, and could sit at higher speeds more comfortably, if not as economically. I'd happily ride it around Australia (some 19,000k/12,000 miles). On the longer trips, I tend to want to take in the scenery along the way, so these speeds are fine. And as MGPilot notes, the V& is a little more flexible than the Cali Classic I was riding with. The Cali Classic has no problems riding with the V7 (that's what he says, at least). Still, I can't see him giving up his Cali. I'd say he loves the capabilty of being able to punt it along briskly when he gets the urge.
Hope this helps,
Mal
-
Since I said it, perhaps I can better explain my own comment.
The V7 has no problem running 80 mph, it's just not where it shines.
It's light enough that it gets blown around a little on the highway compared to many other larger modern bikes.
And it feels busier to me than I enjoy. In contrast a larger bike like say a big block Guzzi or my 1200 Sporty is turning maybe 1k less rpm at speeds like that so it feels more relaxed and is less disturbed by crosswinds or turbulence.
It's a preference thing, but I'd rather take more backroads and enjoyed slightly lower speeds on my V7, but I felt that way about my R65 and my R80 too. Now my R1100 was a different beast and was more at home on the highway at those higher speeds.
That make any sense?
-
My wife has taken her Breva 750 on plenty of long trips where she runs it at 80 on the interstate for long periods, loaded down for a week long trip. It seems to do it fine. I took it to the Canton Lake campout on Saturday for a day ride (ended up doing over 480 miles by the time I got home) and it was regularly in the 70 to 75 range just purring along (about 4500 to 5000 RPM) with no issues, only it won't have much punch at that pace.
-
In a previou thread KevM and others mentioned that if running 80 mph on the slab all day, then the v7 is not the tool.
If the v7 is the closest thing to what an airhead would be today, why wouldn't it be useful to run the interstate? Now my airhead can run all day at 80mph or 4500 rpm. Would a v7 grenade if pushed that hard or would it just be buzzy?
The reason I ask is I'd like to get a v7 to replace my EV but not if it can't do interstate work.
I only have about 1300 miles on my new V7 Stone but I would argue that, thus far at least, it has been the best motorcycle for ME at those speeds and on those roads than any others I've owned. Now let me clarify what I mean by best. It has, by a very long margin, the best tank range of any bike I've owned and is also by a wide margin the most efficient as well. At 80-83 it is turning an incredibly smooth 5 grand even and through the bars is the smallest amount of vibration I personally have had at those speeds among any bike I've owned. My 4 previous Californias, my former GT1000, previous Multistrada 1000DS, even the fantastic Stelvio I had for a bit, after about 75-80 miles on the highway I would have to slip on the Cramp Buster or the Go Cruise. With a few of those bikes, they were actually more smooth in the 85-90mph range, but nearing 90 on the highway is risking tickets and around those speeds the wind noise and general resistance begins to wear on me. With the new Stone, however, even after 150-160 mile sittings without a break on the slab running 80-85, I have yet to feel the need at all for any wrist relief, just ass relief. :thumb: The biggest challenges for me so far - and there are challenges for touring with any bike, really - is the Stone's seat and my lack of legroom, both of which I hope to amend somewhat with an aftermarket seat. The suspension can wear on your back a bit but I have slipped discs so that might be a special issue just for me. Also, a better seat might too help this latter as well.
[Edit. I would add here that your results will certainly vary. Things like comfort, perceived vibration, etc., etc. can be very subjective. I forgot to mention earlier as well that while I have a longer inseam (32") I'm not a big guy, 5'9" and only 145lbs tops so some of those factors, I think, also influence why I maybe enjoy the bike more than others at variable speeds and so forth]
-
I would compare this to my first bike, a Honda CB500-4. About same weight and hp.
Once I added a windshield to it, it was happy at 80mph and would cruise nicely at that speed. It was fine as a naked bike except when the winds kicked up sand out here in the desert. No, not a lot of hp for passing zones. Add some headwind and it will have a hard time maintaining 80mph. And high winds or truck turbulence would toss it around a bit more. It would also 'feel' a load on the back more than a heavier bike.
The T5 is decent at cross country. A little heavier but just a little more power. It also struggles to pass folks at the higher speeds, especially up hill. I have taken it around most of the southwestern states and it does well. Yep, 5000rpm is 80mph so it is 'busy'. My brother on his new GS bugs me about getting a bike with more power so I can keep up with him when he passes cars.
So, if you are not in a hurry the V7 would do fine on the highway and would be great on back roads.
-
I did about 3 hours this weekend on my '14 V7 Racer, Not bad, hands got a little stiff, and butt was a little sore..... Picked up a wrist rest for the throttle, see if that helps my hands/wrists. Looking for something to put on the stock racer seat to make longer rides a little more comfortable.
Did you get one of these:
(http://www.compacc.com/images/product/300/29982_1.jpg)
Or a Throttle Miester type device (which replaces the right side bar end weight):
(http://store.bobsbmw.com/images/products/thumb/wrist-rest-for-r850-1100-1150-gsrtr-and-k1200-rsgt--2004.jpg?maxWidth=495&maxHeight=308)
Having used both, I really recommend the later. I have the Kaoko version on my F800GT, which I like a lot. With these devices, you can dial in just enough friction to hold the throttle to let go completely (so you can hang your hand down and shake it out), or even to just hold the right grip very loosely, allowing your wrist to relax. The first device (Cramp Buster, Wrist Rest, Thottle Rocker, etc), does help, but, not as much as the later.
Bob's BMW sells a Throttle Miester type device that they also call a Wrist Rest, hence my question. I don't know if they sell them for other makes, but, I got one for my R100R, as I couldn't find a Throttle Miester or Kaoko for it. As an added bonus, it was about half the price of the other too (Guzzi Content :thumb:).
These, and similar devices have a collar on threads that rotates a friction surface against the end of the throttle tube, which will hold it in place for you, but, not so tight that you can't roll off the throttle w/o disengaging the device. With the Kaoko on my F800GT, for highway riding, I'll engage it, and then make mild corrections to throttle position w/o disengaging it.
The Kaoko and Throttle Miesters are made specific to MANY make and model bikes. The model-specific Kaoko throttle locks are made to look like the original bar end weight. Throttle Miester offers replacement matching left bar end weights for a unified look (at an extra cost).
I got my Kaoko from Twisted Throttle.
I use a throttle lock, incidentally make by a guzzista here in Sydney in his garage & available here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-Throttle-Lock-Cruise-Control-Wrist-Rest-V3-Factory-Second-Item-/111771469173
I've tried these. They work, sort of, and really depend on what type of grips you have as to how well. Get the Throttle Miester, Kaoko, or similar device.
-
... The suspension can wear on your back a bit but I have slipped discs so that might be a special issue just for me.
:1:
I've got a couple slipped discs as well.
I just put an Ohlins rear shock on my Monster, and did a 4 hour ride Friday with it. What a HUGE difference. It smooths the ride out nicely.
Now, with that benchmark, I'm contemplating similar upgrades for some of my other bikes.
-
Having owned a couple of R 100 Beemers , no , a V7 won't lope down the highway like a 1000 CC BMW . For that you are gonna need the other bike you own .
I have a 2013 V7 Racer, and previously a 2009 V7 Classic. I also currently have a 1992 R100R. While the V7's will do 80-85 MPH on the highway just fine, the R100R does have more passing power at highway speeds. The 1,000cc twin on the R100R is rated at only 60HP, but, likely has another 25% more torque than the V7, which is noticeable.
That said, while the current V7 does just fine, I'm anxious to see if MG comes out with a 65 HP V7 as is rumored (in another thread) to be running around Italy in the form of a prototype. :food:
-
I have a Bonneville, and while it can cruise at 75mph+, it doesn't feel like it wants to. The RPM's get high and the bike feels like it's trying too hard. IMO, the Bonnie's sweet spot is around 60mph. The V7II might do a little better with that 6th gear.
It all depends on what you can tolerate. I'm sure I can get by with the Bonnie, but my Norge just does it better.
-
I have a Bonneville, and while it can cruise at 75mph+, it doesn't feel like it wants to. The RPM's get high and the bike feels like it's trying too hard. IMO, the Bonnie's sweet spot is around 60mph. The V7II might do a little better with that 6th gear.
It all depends on what you can tolerate. I'm sure I can get by with the Bonnie, but my Norge just does it better.
My new 2014 V7 Special is glass smooth at 4500 rpm, which is around 70mph. It starts getting a little buzzy at 80 mph and 5000 rpm, but I can still see out of the mirrors. And, the bike feels more than willing.
Granted, it doesn't have a lot of power in reserve at 80mph, but since I rarely travel faster than that, I won't miss it.
My Sport 1100 is loafing at 80mph and about 4400 rpm. Roll the throttle at that speed and it will pull pretty hard past 125 mph, then a little bit slower up to around 140 mph. Man, it's nice! But you know, I've only pulled that trigger a few times in the 18 years I've owned the bike.
The V7 is perfectly adequate.. And sometimes adequate is just perfect..
Adequate:
adjective
1. as much or as good as necessary for some requirement or purpose; fully sufficient, suitable, or fit.
-
I have a 2013 Stone that I've put 22,000 miles on so far. Some of the miles have been commuting, some motorcycle camping in the NC mountains but most of the miles are from 350 mile day trips to the mountains which include backroads and a couple hours on the highway both ways. It's even been (slowly) down a few unpaved roads without issue. Even though lately I've found myself considering a Stelvio in the spring, the V7 pretty much does everything I want a bike to do. With the Mistral exhaust it sounds great doing it. :grin:
-
We had an 80 gentleman ride his Griso down to Cottonwood Arizona for our Not-a-Rally this spring. Saw him again in August in Datil at the rally on a new V7-II. He rides from the Seattle area.
Last seven bikes he's own have been Griso's or V7's
And he's a hard rider.
All this riding/touring - stock see, no windscreen and a medium dry bag for luggage (he could get by with a small bag, but this was a gift from his kids).
Personally I think he's too tall for the V7, but he does not seem to mind it at all. :laugh:
-
Based on what I've heard. I must just stick with the EV for a while. On the interstate I think I'd like to have some extra ft-lbs available if needed for safety reasons. Thanks for all the insights.
-
I've toured on a Suzuki TS-125, Honda CB-360T and a Kawasaki KZ550 Ltd back in the day. Can't recommend the 125, but especially the 550 (with about 50hp) did just fine.
-
My new 2014 V7 Special is glass smooth at 4500 rpm, which is around 70mph. It starts getting a little buzzy at 80 mph and 5000 rpm
<snip>
My Sport 1100 is loafing at 80mph and about 4400 rpm.
That's the type of difference I'm talking about.
Based on what I've heard. I must just stick with the EV for a while. On the interstate I think I'd like to have some extra ft-lbs available if needed for safety reasons. Thanks for all the insights.
I'm NOT telling you to rethink staying with the EV.
MY JACKAL certainly felt a little less busy on the highway.
That said, I don't buy for one millisecond it's a safety issue.
I CAN be buzzing along on the highway at 70 or so and drop a gear on the V7 and be at 90 pretty quick.
I just don't recall every being in a situation where that was NECESSARY for safety.
-
My Bassa didn't have a whole lot more power at 80mph than the V7 does.
A byproduct of the extra 150-lbs of weight, I'm sure.
Tonti Californias don't have a lot of power. Passing power in 5th at 80mph is similar or less (IMHO) than the V7.
They just don't accelerate real fast at those speeds...
-
My Bassa didn't have a whole lot more power at 80mph than the V7 does.
A byproduct of the extra 150-lbs of weight, I'm sure.
Tonti Californias don't have a lot of power. Passing power in 5th at 80mph is similar or less (IMHO) than the V7.
They just don't accelerate real fast at those speeds...
Agreed, and I think the difference is just that the Tonti Calis were geared taller and turning lower rpm at those speeds so they FELT a little LESS BUSY, but you still had to drop them a gear for a quick pass and they'd still be running out of steam around the same place.
-
I just don't recall every being in a situation where that was NECESSARY for safety.
Trust me Kev. In order for me to get out of town, interstates are almost necessary. Here at the armpit of the nation, our interstates are dominated by semi-trailers carrying goods around the southern tip of Lake Michigan, into and out of Chicago. Some of 4 lanes sections have 3 lanes that make it look like a rail line except they are back to back trucks. (Now Stormtruck don't get offended)
The speed limits are 55 and further out they are 60 mph. Nobody follows those rules unless LEO is around.
Typical to see trucks running 70-75mph on I65 on two lane sections with trucks in both lanes. When you decide to pass you want a handful and better get on with it. That's the safety part I was talking about. My R100 will accelerate from say 75 but as you know, its going to take its time to get to 90...but it WILL get there, and is just OK for Insterstate work. My EV however will shit and get it if I drop a gear and grab a handful. It also doesn't sound like its going to come apart. I was just trying to get people's impressions about the V7 in such situations cuz I was worried the V7 might be a little short on torque for the job.
-
Granted, it doesn't have a lot of power in reserve at 80mph, but since I rarely travel faster than that, I won't miss it.
Adequate:
adjective
1. as much or as good as necessary for some requirement or purpose; fully sufficient, suitable, or fit.
Yeah , we won't talk about the time when you and Mike D passed that car going up that long grade on 259 and left me struggling along behind it on the old beater /5 :grin:
Dusty
-
Trust me Kev. In order for me to get out of town, interstates are almost necessary. Here at the armpit of the nation, our interstates are dominated by semi-trailers carrying goods around the southern tip of Lake Michigan, into and out of Chicago. Some of 4 lanes sections have 3 lanes that make it look like a rail line except they are back to back trucks. (Now Stormtruck don't get offended)
The speed limits are 55 and further out they are 60 mph. Nobody follows those rules unless LEO is around.
Typical to see trucks running 70-75mph on I65 on two lane sections with trucks in both lanes. When you decide to pass you want a handful and better get on with it. That's the safety part I was talking about. My R100 will accelerate from say 75 but as you know, its going to take its time to get to 90...but it WILL get there, and is just OK for Insterstate work. My EV however will shit and get it if I drop a gear and grab a handful. It also doesn't sound like its going to come apart. I was just trying to get people's impressions about the V7 in such situations cuz I was worried the V7 might be a little short on torque for the job.
SHORT ANSWER - the V7 can handle that.
But Sorry Ray, I still disagree with your argument.
LONG ANSWER -
I've ridden plenty of interstates in my life from rush hour traffic in and around LA, NYC, Philly, DC, Baltimore etc. to the I-10 from LA to Phoenix, to the length of I-95 from Maine to Florida. I've done this on Airheads, Oilheads, Guzzis (smallblock and big block) and HARLEYS - mostly Sportsters and FLHs, and some JAPanInc. products both big and small, oh, and pressbikes, heck, a good number more of BMWs, Buells, other Harleys, etc.
I found a long time ago that I NEVER HAVE TO (I may want to, I may enjoy, but never MUST) out-accelerate one or more of the vehicles around me.
You never HAVE to pass a tractor trailer or anyone else on the road, not to merge onto a highway (you can ALWAYS slow and slip in behind (there's plenty of room to squeeze in a bike), not to deal with traffic on a busy interstate (you don't HAVE to be the fastest one on the road*), not to get around on a backroad (but if you ever do, well, hell, there's plenty of acceleration there in a V7 for that). You can ALWAYS be the one that slows down (and/or gets out of the way).
*Riding Harleys and slower bikes in major interstate traffic taught me something. If I slow down to a speed that I want (slower than the average around me) and stick to the right lane, I create a bubble in traffic. It's not unlike the crazy old woman in the right (or left) lane of the highway going 10 under the speed limit. Traffic stacks up behind her, but IT ALL SLOWS - except the frustrated ones that shoot to the opposite side of the highway to get around (and the more lanes the bigger the cushion for you). Even the guy right on your ass will slow either because he/she is happy going that speed too, OR because they are going to start looking for a chance to move over and pass you. But either way, they back off (maybe one or two get on your ass for a few seconds, but if you slow further or give them a few flashes of the brake light, they'll slow too and drop back).
So if you run 55 while everyone else is going 65, you will actually slow a bunch of cars behind you to the point where they've effectively got your six by creating a cushion where the faster highway traffic can't get to you.
Now, that said, that's NOT the way I CHOSE to ride in many situations, but I have done it purposefully on highways in heavier traffic when I just didn't want to be part of the maddening flow (the 10 or 20 above the speed limit, each only 5' off the bumper of the guy in front of them). Generally speaking I will use this method even when I was going fast if I see that kinda shyte developing. I might be in the left lane moving along, but I'm seeing traffic up ahead and if I stay in the left I'm going to be stuck in the middle of them and people just as fast as me coming up from behind, so I move right, and chill waiting for the left to clear again, then if I want to wick it up I can.
Just a different perspective, but perhaps one you might give at try sometime.
-
To find a nice cruising speed, stop looking at the speedometer. If you have a smartphone put one of those GPS apps on it that records average, high and low speeds. Then go for a ride on the freeway or highway with your speedo and tach covered up.
Instead of looking at the speed, just ride and settle in at the most comfortable speed where everything feels good. You'll know it when you get there.
Later, look at the speed you were riding at and you might be surprised. Sometimes, the speed you thought was comfortable wasn't and was more an effort to maintain a certain speed or some concern over RPM.
Try it, costs you nothing but does add to your knowledge of what really is a good cruising speed for a particular bike. Then you can go back and match engine speed to the comfortable cruising speed and really know.
-
SHORT ANSWER - the V7 can handle that.
But Sorry Ray, I still disagree with your argument.
LONG ANSWER -
I've ridden plenty of interstates in my life from rush hour traffic in and around LA, NYC, Philly, DC, Baltimore etc. to the I-10 from LA to Phoenix, to the length of I-95 from Maine to Florida. I've done this on Airheads, Oilheads, Guzzis (smallblock and big block) and HARLEYS - mostly Sportsters and FLHs, and some JAPanInc. products both big and small, oh, and pressbikes, heck, a good number more of BMWs, Buells, other Harleys, etc.
I found a long time ago that I NEVER HAVE TO (I may want to, I may enjoy, but never MUST) out-accelerate one or more of the vehicles around me.
You never HAVE to pass a tractor trailer or anyone else on the road, not to merge onto a highway (you can ALWAYS slow and slip in behind (there's plenty of room to squeeze in a bike), not to deal with traffic on a busy interstate (you don't HAVE to be the fastest one on the road*), not to get around on a backroad (but if you ever do, well, hell, there's plenty of acceleration there in a V7 for that). You can ALWAYS be the one that slows down (and/or gets out of the way).
Excellent perspective, and one that I've been a proponent of for years.
You DON'T have to drive like everyone else on the Interstate. Problem is, it's hard for us to get rid of that reflex to "take" the open space in front of us, to ALWAYS have to merge "in front of" a faster car, and to go from lane to lane looking for the "fastest lane".
I've ridden a lot of miles on US Interstates and UK motorways on underpowered old Brits, and I've always found that you can find someone who's going about the same speed you want to, in the slow lane, and just ride along with them.
It's not necessarily pleasant, but if the "old road" has been subsumed by the Interstate and it's the only way (like the M25 north out of Kent), then you can do it in order to get to the real riding .....
Lannis
-
I get the point from both of you but if I did that the trucks will run right over you. Rear view mirror says Mack and start saying your rosary.
-
Based on what I've heard. I must just stick with the EV for a while. On the interstate I think I'd like to have some extra ft-lbs available if needed for safety reasons. Thanks for all the insights.
I agree with Kev on this. It really isn't SAFE to have extra power on the highway. Yes, you may ride slower, but, that is usually 'safer' than buzzing along in the fast lane or weaving in and out of traffic or passing those trucks just cause they are going 65 and you want to go 75.
Now, if you WANT the extra power, then by all means keep the EV or get a bike with more power. But please don't kid yourself that it is for 'safety' reasons.
-
Actually some reserve power can be a safety factor . No , I don't weave in and out of traffic , usually try to find a soft spot and hang there . Hard to do sometimes W/O a bit of juice left to keep ahead of the cars doing 5 over , or more likely around here , 15 over .
Dusty
-
I get the point from both of you but if I did that the trucks will run right over you. Rear view mirror says Mack and start saying your rosary.
Not sure why it would happen to you and hasn't happened to me. HAS a Mack truck actually run right over you, or are you just supposing what might happen?
Perhaps Stormtruck might comment on whether truck drivers are really murdering bastards or not. Maybe they are and I just haven't found them yet ....
Lannis
-
Not sure why it would happen to you and hasn't happened to me. HAS a Mack truck actually run right over you, or are you just supposing what might happen?
Perhaps Stormtruck might comment on whether truck drivers are really murdering bastards or not. Maybe they are and I just haven't found them yet ....
Lannis
Truck drivers tend to be pretty courteous , at least the pros . Around here we have trouble with private trash trucks and concrete haulers .
Dusty
-
I get the point from both of you but if I did that the trucks will run right over you. Rear view mirror says Mack and start saying your rosary.
I'm sorry, I'm not looking to completely hijack the thread and turn it into an argument.
I'm just relating a technique that has worked for me on crowded and fast major highways all around this country.
And that's not to say that I always use it, or that I don't sometimes chose to move faster than traffic or MORE IMPORTANTLY stay completely away from traffic WHEN I CAN.
I'm just relating something I've noticed over many years and many miles.
I can understand your reticence if you've not tried/experienced it. But it truly does work. I've seen tractor trailers take to the middle r left lane and leave me a nice wide berth many a times. Coupled with courteous replies (a few flashes of the 4way) to my flashing headlight or waving hand alerting them it is safe to merge back in.
Give it a try sometime and you might be surprised.
THAT SAID - to the original point of this thread, there's no reason you would HAVE to use this technique on a V7... it motors along just fine at 70 or 80, and passes well enough at 90.
-
Actually some reserve power can be a safety factor . No , I don't weave in and out of traffic , usually try to find a soft spot and hang there . Hard to do sometimes W/O a bit of juice left to keep ahead of the cars doing 5 over , or more likely around here , 15 over .
Dusty
Sorry, 'extra' power not needed for that on an interstate. Now, if you want to be able to pass a car, doing 15 over, on a two lane road, then yeah, that's a bit of extra power.
Having ridden a 50hp (probably closer to 40hp) while commuting in interstate traffic, it was a no brainer. If your top speed is over 100 then any interstate riding is perfectly "safe".
Again, if you WANT the extra power, for whatever reason, then get it. But it is not necessary to stay alive on the interstate, or any other road for that matter.
-
The need to be able to accelerate is indeed a safety factor. Ride near some major cities, especial in California and there is no hanging out in a slow lane, the slow lanes are just a right side passing lane.
Drivers and riders have been run over, going 70 mph themselves by others who simply weren't paying attention or were trying to make the right lane end run to gain position in the far left (#1) lane. It happens at slow and go speed and it happens at 70+ mph too.
Sometimes there is no place to go but faster, no such thing as never.
One of the safety features motorcycles have is their ability to accelerate faster than most cars. Moving to one side sometimes isn't an option. Plenty of dead riders who thought they'd hold their lane position come hell or high water, they met both.
-
I love my '13 V7 Stone and ride the heck out of it. To me, it's been great on any road I've taken it on. Yesterday morning, I rode 85 miles to work from East Texas to the Dallas area, about 70 miles of that was on a crowded interstate. The slow lane was traveling about 85 mph, but I had no problems staying at that speed. The last 15 miles was on busy city streets with stop and go traffic in school zones and a few 4-way stop signs with at least 30 cars in front of me. Ugh.... Still no problems with the bike.
I've ridden this bike on several long trips, loaded down with camping gear, and have had no problems with riding all day long. I've ridden it to the Canada, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, and New Hampshire rallies. I think it's comfortable and handles any road I've been on just fine!
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/2014_06020001_zps8skxowqv.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/2014_06020001_zps8skxowqv.jpg.html)
Beaver
-
The need to be able to accelerate is indeed a safety factor. Ride near some major cities, especial in California and there is no hanging out in a slow lane, the slow lanes are just a right side passing lane.
Drivers and riders have been run over, going 70 mph themselves by others who simply weren't paying attention or were trying to make the right lane end run to gain position in the far left (#1) lane. It happens at slow and go speed and it happens at 70+ mph too.
Sometimes there is no place to go but faster, no such thing as never.
One of the safety features motorcycles have is their ability to accelerate faster than most cars. Moving to one side sometimes isn't an option. Plenty of dead riders who thought they'd hold their lane position come hell or high water, they met both.
I'm sorry, but I just don't accept this argument. According to it people should be rear-ended every day on every major highway around you. Granted I've only ridden a number of weeks in CA not decades like I have on the East Coast, but for that to be true the traffic and culture would have to much much different than I have observed.
-
It is fun to have enough HP to dance ahead of traffic on two lanes, but not much use in the long run on interstates. What used to be groups of traffic here and there, you could jump up to the clear spots, not so much anymore, mostly grid lock the whole way between big cities.
Still fun in the mountains if no traffic to have the big HP. But, riding in a group (6 bikes or less) you can only pass traffic on two lanes in 2s or 3s and then still limited by the slowest bike in the group or sight lines.
When there is lower speed limits and bunch of traffic, running with the traffic is the safest bet, especially on two lanes, like YellowStone, Jackson Hole, and Red Lodge area. Any bike will work in these areas now adays.
-
I've ridden more miles with a friend of mine than any one else on the planet and I can follow him when there is no traffic, not so on a crowded fast moving interstate. I think it has to do with our personal comfort levels. He chooses to ride a mile or 2 per hour under the flow of traffic, I choose to ride a mile or 2 per hour over the flow of traffic. He's not comfortable with my style and It's unnerving for me to have cars, trucks or whatever crawling up my tailpipe. We get our destinations figured out, ride our own ride, and meet on the other side of it all. There is no doubt that most folks will slow down behind someone and create that "bubble" you speak of. He can ignore what's going on behind him, I can't take my eyes off my mirrors and would rather anticipate and respond to what goes on in front of me than what might happen behind me. Then there are those that see that safe bubble as an opportunity to squeeze off the interstate to an exit that they just about missed or to get ahead of that slow mover that's going to add 10-15 seconds to their arrival time. Add those 10-15 seconds together and you've got a whole 5 minutes crossing the average city! :undecided:.There are also folks that just don't realize that a motorcycle can stop at a much quicker rate than a truck or a car, not to mention they're not thinking about how much damage a multiple ton vehicle can do to a fraction of a ton vehicle. I agree that in most cases accelerating won't help the situation, BUT, you have to admit, there are instances where it may get you out of trouble if you are so inclined to use that tactic. I want every advantage I can utilize. That said, I think the V7 is adequate for touring at sane paces, after the test ride I finally got about a month ago :thumb:. Choose what works for you, and stay safe out there! John
-
I'm not saying you cannot ever accelerate away from a problem. Sure there are times going faster than traffic is more comfortable.
I'm also not saying that when you create that bubble it's not a fluid and ever changing thing.
But thing is, it's fluid and changing at a SLOWER pace than if you let yourself get stuck in the middle of close quarter traffic moving 20 mph faster right?
It's a general principle to which there may be exceptions from time-to-time, but to a reasonable point slowing down gives you more time to observe, react etc.
That said, I very much prefer to NOT have traffic behind me in any close quarters WHEN POSSIBLE.
-
I have been on my KLR on the interstate and had "wanted" to accelerate ahead of a vehicle because I saw myself about to be boxed in by trucks moving 5 to 10 under the speed limit, and didn't have the ability. You know the situation where a truck tries to pass another truck and can't get it done for several miles. I see slowing further down, now 10 to 15 under, to create a bubble as something that just might piss off the truck behind me, especially if I kill his momentum getting up the hill. I would much rather be able to get out of their way before hand and avoid getting anyone upset and start tailgating me.
I commute on I-35 in central Oklahoma everyday, and this is not an uncommon occurrence. Also, I've never felt the 750 Breva lacked power to do that up to 90, and I understand the newer V7's have a bit more power.
-
I'm sorry, but I just don't accept this argument. According to it people should be rear-ended every day on every major highway around you. Granted I've only ridden a number of weeks in CA not decades like I have on the East Coast, but for that to be true the traffic and culture would have to much much different than I have observed.
+1 But, I have commuted in CA and DC, a few times in several other major cities. I've never seen a place where having more power would prevent an accident.
OTOH I have seen several where being able to stop faster would have been better.
Face it. We like power on our bikes. I liked the power I've had in some cars. But, it wasn't a safety factor.
-
+1 But, I have commuted in CA and DC, a few times in several other major cities. I've never seen a place where having more power would prevent an accident.
OTOH I have seen several where being able to stop faster would have been better.
Face it. We like power on our bikes. I liked the power I've had in some cars. But, it wasn't a safety factor.
So , all of the times I've used all the available HP to create a cushion between myself and some clown in a car that was trying to mate with my motorbike were just imaginary ? Maybe you guys live where no cage driver ever tries to occupy the same space as your motorbike is already occupying , around here it is common . Hell , it has happened on an empty two lane road .
Dusty
-
So , all of the times I've used all the available HP to create a cushion between myself and some clown in a car that was trying to mate with my motorbike were just imaginary ? Maybe you guys live where no cage driver ever tries to occupy the same space as your motorbike is already occupying , around here it is common . Hell , it has happened on an empty two lane road .
Dusty
Yeah, sounds like your imagination.
Either people are trying to run you down on purpose or you need to learn to use the rest of the controls (handlebars and brakes).
:kiss: :tongue: :wink:
-
So , all of the times I've used all the available HP to create a cushion between myself and some clown in a car that was trying to mate with my motorbike were just imaginary ? Maybe you guys live where no cage driver ever tries to occupy the same space as your motorbike is already occupying , around here it is common . Hell , it has happened on an empty two lane road .
Dusty
Plus one. My emoticons need some HP this morning.
Look, I dunno if there's an absolute right or wrong in this argument about speed, ponies, and safety. Yes, driving exceptionally fast is obviously dangerous and going slower - IF you can maintain the same level of attention and guard is almost always safer. That being said - and I'm sure I'll get wiped out this week following this statement - but I personally tend to be a better driver when I am being slightly offensive rather than slower and what I call defensive driving where I am just watching traffic go around me and concentrating on maintaining a bubble. The absolute closest calls I've had on the big roads - are we talking about mainly big roads here? - was driving slower and not getting past traffic. Was that because I was going slower per se? No. It was because that when I don't drive the slightest bit offensively, then the truth is that I invariably lose my focus and attention - then a close call happens. If you can drive slower, keep that bubble between you and traffic, and keep your attention, can anyone argue this is NOT safer? Even still, for me personally I have found that I keep my focus better and my attention to the road and traffic when I am driving a slight bit aggressively and/or offensively.
And someone is really gonna likely flag me for b.s. on this statement I'm about to make - they've already said as much in previous posts of Cali (more power) over Stone - but I have found in my now 1400 miles on the Stone that in the 60-90mph roll-on range, I personally am considerably faster at getting around cars than I was on my 4 previous Calis. Keep in mind I am a small guy (145lbs) so I'm sure that's a factor but I had to plan a great deal more on the Calis than I've had to thus far on my Stone, this from small to big roads. Maybe the Cali came on a bit stronger around 90 but by then I'm already just about around/past traffic.
-
So , all of the times I've used all the available HP to create a cushion between myself and some clown in a car that was trying to mate with my motorbike were just imaginary ? Maybe you guys live where no cage driver ever tries to occupy the same space as your motorbike is already occupying , around here it is common . Hell , it has happened on an empty two lane road .
Dusty
You can also use the brakes to move yourself relative to the car who wants your space.
We haven't always got to be "ahead".
Lannis
-
I really think the answer is that having the ability to quickly accelerate out of a situation IS a safety concern because it can allow you to DECREASE the probability of a collision or other occurrence that could cause damage to yourself or machine. This is kind of an anti-antidote statement, that the absence of seems to be proof that power is never needed to avoid disaster. "I've never needed it or seen it so it must not be!" :huh:
-
"There are also folks that just don't realize that a motorcycle can stop at a much quicker rate than a truck or a car"
Not to pick on anyone, but I have seen this type of statement several times on multiple motorcycle forums. Might do some good to actually check the test times and distances for braking ability of your motorcycle, and then compare it to what is being reported for cars. Can easily be found in magazines and on-line car tests. You might be a bit surprised how fast many modern cars can scrub off speed (especially if they have magic electrons on their side). My point is don't always assume you can out-brake that car in front of you. Stay safe!
-
My only real concern about taking the Skorpion out to SoCal is it might be a little low on power to handle the 405, 5, 110, etc. going out to the mountains. I could bore you with how the power of the Mighty Scura saved my bacon on the last trip, but I won't bother..
-
There are no absolutes <chuckle> and I'll never say never <chuckle more>
So yeah, none of my argument has been that there aren't times when you might feel better going faster than traffic vs. slower.
My argument is that you can always go SLOWER and that you don't HAVE TO ACCELERATE out of trouble (yes, I guess there might be an unforeseen 0.001% occurrence when you can't but for the life of me in hundreds of thousands of miles I've not experienced it, but I've seen it in movies, the atomic bomb planted by the terrorist is about to go off and you've just decided you can't disarm it so you've only got 30 seconds to get to a safe distance, at that point I don't think a Hyabusa is going to save your ass but that's the first time I'd rather have it than a Stone).
But yeah, we're not doing to prove any absolutes.
Then again, I don't think we have to prove absolutes from this argument to say that in hundreds of thousands of miles of experience we've been able to survive without it, therefore "it doesn't appear to be a big/common need" and since multiple people here are reporting the same experience, it's easy to suspect those who feel it IS a "need" are probably fooling themselves trying to justify the "more POWA" (read like Jezza) that many of us know and love.
Anyway on other things:
And someone is really gonna likely flag me for b.s. on this statement I'm about to make - they've already said as much in previous posts of Cali (more power) over Stone - but I have found in my now 1400 miles on the Stone that in the 60-90mph roll-on range, I personally am considerably faster at getting around cars than I was on my 4 previous Calis. Keep in mind I am a small guy (145lbs) so I'm sure that's a factor but I had to plan a great deal more on the Calis than I've had to thus far on my Stone, this from small to big roads. Maybe the Cali came on a bit stronger around 90 but by then I'm already just about around/past traffic.
Well that makes perfect sense to me.
First the gearing on the Cali is taller, meaning its motor is spinning slower (further away from peak power) at the same highway speed as a V7. So the V7, already higher in the powerband SHOULD roll on better.
Yes, I think your weight is helping. At my weight it's almost like I'm carrying a passenger too compared to just you solo. Plus I have HB bags on mine (and sometimes a topcase) which add to wind drag.
And as mentioned there are the differences in bike weights too.
Let's look at some relative specs (I know they don't tell the whole story, but they paint at least part of the picture, most specs from Motorcycle Consumer News, but some filled in from other sources):
Jackal vs. Black Eagle vs. Cal-Vin vs. V7 Stone (2013-15)
Wet Weight: 572# / 589# / 616# / 443#
RWHP: 63 / 68 / 68 / 40
Torque: 60 / 58 / 58 / 41
Standing 1/4 mile: 13.74 / 13.35 / 13.2 (not MCN) / 14.29
The 1/4 mile figures show slight differences. The Cal-Vin number is a test variance from a different source, there's no reason it should be quicker than the same motor/ECU (but lighter) Black Eagle. The numbers show a slight advantage WOT from a dead stand still that goes to the Breva1100 engine internals in the Black Eagle/Cal-Vin, and that the Jackal (another lighter, stripped variant compared to an EV or many other Tonti Calis) which likely goes to the slight hp to weight ratio advantage of the Tonti Cali vs. the V7.
I should add the top speeds in the 1/4 mile for the Black Eagle (fastest) vs. the V7 (slowest) were 100 mph vs. 90 mph.
I don't have the figure for the Jackal noted, but looking at the times, let's split the difference and call it about 95 mph.
So in a standing 1/4 there might be a 5 mph difference between a stripped Cali and a V7, that's not much.
And any sudden "need" for acceleration on the highway it's going to come down to the particular rider/bike and conditions. I mean, how much weight are you carrying, windshield and bags for drag, do you try to roll on or drop it gear?
To me, that's basically an RCH.
-
I really think the answer is that having the ability to quickly accelerate out of a situation IS a safety concern because it can allow you to DECREASE the probability of a collision or other occurrence that could cause damage to yourself or machine. This is kind of an anti-antidote statement, that the absence of seems to be proof that power is never needed to avoid disaster. "I've never needed it or seen it so it must not be!" :huh:
I'm not saying I've never needed to accelerate. And, I like power. But, I have commuted on two different V7s and they have adequate power to move in and out and around traffic at interstate speeds.
Heck, I just did that this morning.
-
For me... If a car starts to merge into the lane space I am occupying, and I have a choice to quickly accelerate or quickly brake, and there is a car closely behind (not necessarily tailgating either), I will opt for the throttle because I can control better where I go than I can control the attention and braking of the car behind me. YMMV in what you prefer to do.
-
Ok. My original question was whether the V7 is adequate for 80 mph slab work. Most have said it is.
Having an extra margin of power...well lets just say its a personal thing. No, I don't ride wild and do like to ride between the packs in traffic but if I want to go I want it available...whether or not that is truly safer or not.
If I can avoid the interstates well thats my first choice but sometimes its not practical. Hey if most people think the V7 is ok for interstate work that's good enough for me.
Question answered. Thank you.
I also know now not to question the power levels of the V7 any more. People feel very emotional anout their choice of bike. I guess one could tour on anything I guess. Once read an article anout a guy that toured on a Whizzer. Safety is related to one's perception of risk.
-
For me... If a car starts to merge into the lane space I am occupying, and I have a choice to quickly accelerate or quickly brake, and there is a car closely behind (not necessarily tailgating either), I will opt for the throttle because I can control better where I go than I can control the attention and braking of the car behind me. YMMV in what you prefer to do.
OK, perfect discussion point.
What kind of merge?
Freeway on-ramp? - then I disagree. You can see them coming long enough that it takes very little speed differential to put you just in front or just behind.
(Because I ride with Jenn relatively often, and it's not uncommon for her to be far enough back that accelerating to get in front of merging traffic doesn't make sense, it's something I've done many times, literally a slight roll off of the throttle allows you to pace and merge behind the on-ramp traffic).
Freeway rolling traffic? - I still disagree. If someone merges "suddenly" into your lane there are only 3 options and I think they depend on where you were in the first place. I mean, if you're staying behind them so it's tight but clear, then no problem (except that they just ate your cushion so you'll have to slow slightly for a few seconds to build a new cushion). If you're just in front of them, or maybe because of traffic you've just dropped by to even with the driver, then some horn, a slight swerve, coupled with some acceleration can help, but it depends on how fast they're coming over - I mean if they just swerve into your lane you're hit, done acceleration wasn't going to help cause chances are you don't have the reaction time and the bike doesn't instantly jump ahead even if it's a Busa. And lastly, if you're RIGHT next to them (BEHIND the driver) and they just come over - you're hit. But then you shouldn't be just right next to them for more than a second or two since you should be either already slowing or accelerating. No?
But let's not forget the other input you've got - STEERING - I mentioned it briefly in that answer. Even with a Jersey barrier on one side, you've likely got lane-splitting room to get out of a serious situation. Swerve and then brake.
Also, in all the above scenarios IF you are moving slightly slower than traffic then you've already got an advantage on the swerver/merger who is coming into your lane that you were already putting distance between them giving you room to dodge behind them.
Shit, I'd rather dodge BEHIND someone who is being aggressive than IN FRONT OF THEM where I'm still a target.
RAY - this has simply become a discussion about bike choices/riding technique... thanks for starting it. I don't think the exchange of different viewpoints and strategies is a bad thing. But as for questioning the power of the V7. Here's the thing. I don't think ANYONE CAN do it on the internet. It obviously has enough power for lots of people. But that's not the question you were really asking. You were asking if it has ENOUGH POWER FOR YOU, and I CAN'T ANSWER THAT (nor can anyone else here). Though we have obviously tried to give your our perspectives to see if you can relate to it or not. I do think maybe you'd enjoy a demo ride. It might confirm your thoughts, or it might change them. Who knows. Though I do think the Jackal vs. V7 specs tell SOME of the story. Have fun and RIDE SAFE!
-
I also know now not to question the power levels of the V7 any more. People feel very emotional anout their choice of bike. I guess one could tour on anything I guess.
My 2014 V7 Special is my 7th Guzzi. Two currently in the garage. My Sport 1100 can eat the V7 Special for lunch in any measure of performance, but that does not mean the V7 is not perfectly adequate for highway and interstate riding. I bought the V7 Special specifically for around town, commuting, and light touring. And, it performs those tasks with no issues.
Sure, the bike could have more power. It could also have better suspension. But, it would not be a sub-$10k bike, if it had those things. I bought the V7 Special for "fun". It's a different kind of fun than my Sport 1100. The V7 makes me smile every time I ride it. The bike reminds me of a very refined vintage standard, and that is what makes it fun for me.
-
OK, perfect discussion point.
And proof that there are many variables and more than one way to skin a cat.
-
And proof that there are many variables and more than one way to skin a cat.
The very existence of alternate methods does not prove either their superiority or the NEED for them. :wink:
I conceded desire for them from the start of the discussion. :boozing:
-
Some years ago, I traveled all over Southern California on a Vespa ET4, a 150 motor. It cruised at 65 + all day on the freeway... In the right lane. With enough planning, I could overtake trucks and slower vehicles. On hills it slowed a lot and passing power was minimal... But manageable. I remember having to 'budget' the Vespas power... And that was part of the fun. I guess the point is, you don't have to have 1000+ cc bike to go somewhere. All is planning and budgeting what you do have. My wife loved the vespa... It was comfortable and classic, and limited you to a more relaxed pace. My V7 stone is a behemoth next to the Vespa, a fire breathing monster by comparison. I enjoy the visceral feel of the V7 and think it has the perfect amount of horsepower... for me and what I need.
-
I agree with Kev on this. It really isn't SAFE to have extra power on the highway. Yes, you may ride slower, but, that is usually 'safer' than buzzing along in the fast lane or weaving in and out of traffic or passing those trucks just cause they are going 65 and you want to go 75.
Now, if you WANT the extra power, then by all means keep the EV or get a bike with more power. But please don't kid yourself that it is for 'safety' reasons.
Well said.
:bike-037:
-
I'm sorry, but I just don't accept this argument. According to it people should be rear-ended every day on every major highway around you. Granted I've only ridden a number of weeks in CA not decades like I have on the East Coast, but for that to be true the traffic and culture would have to much much different than I have observed.
I concur. Having ridden in SoCal since 1980... First on a Suzuki 550,more recently on a 150 Vespa and the new v7 stone... I can say, anecdotally, that I have not seen or experienced riders being run down on the highway. More often, it's the riders on 100+ hp bikes that overestimate their skill that end up as statistics. Having to budget power on my 150 Vespa on SoCal highways taught me a lot about making due with what you have. Heck... most of the time the freeways here are a parking lot anyway!
-
The very existence of alternate methods does not prove either their superiority or the NEED for them. :wink:
I conceded desire for them from the start of the discussion. :boozing:
The other option is "lane sharing". Modern interstates have 12-foot wide lanes. There is more than enough room for an average passenger car and a motorcycle.
On one occasion in the past couple years, I have had to move left to the yellow line when a pickup with trailer moved into me at about 65mph, and I was unable to accelerate or brake out of his way. There was plenty of room in the lane, and a few seconds later I was in front of him.
Just another day in the life...
-
So , all of the times I've used all the available HP to create a cushion between myself and some clown in a car that was trying to mate with my motorbike were just imaginary ? Maybe you guys live where no cage driver ever tries to occupy the same space as your motorbike is already occupying , around here it is common . Hell , it has happened on an empty two lane road .
Dusty
Wow... Didn't realize how dangerous the plains states are. Perhaps the flat, straight roads encourage faster driving, I can see that. Or maybe you're a magnet for disgruntled Midwesterners ... come on out to sunny California sometime. Lots a curvey mountain roads punctuated by unbearable traffic, lol.
-
Wow... Didn't realize how dangerous the plains states are. Perhaps the flat, straight roads encourage faster driving, I can see that. Or maybe you're a magnet for disgruntled Midwesterners ... come on out to sunny California sometime. Lots a curvey mountain roads punctuated by unbearable traffic, lol.
He's probably referring to Tulsa at Rush Hour, which isn't a cakewalk.
-
The other option is "lane sharing". Modern interstates have 12-foot wide lanes. There is more than enough room for an average passenger car and a motorcycle.
On one occasion in the past couple years, I have had to move left to the yellow line when a pickup with trailer moved into me at about 65mph, and I was unable to accelerate or brake out of his way. There was plenty of room in the lane, and a few seconds later I was in front of him.
Just another day in the life...
I did mention that... I know my posts are tiringly long sometimes. :embarrassed:
-
I know my posts are tiringly long sometimes. :embarrassed:
:boozing:
-
:boozing:
It's probably why Dusty doesn't bother replying on the forum to me... he usually just calls me up and we BS for an hour. :laugh: :azn: :grin:
-
He's probably referring to Tulsa at Rush Hour, which isn't a cakewalk.
I'll take two Tulsa rush hours to one OKC (honestly think Tulsa drivers may have a slight advantage in the mental department). Of course it may also be the huge amount of truck traffic OKC has on I40 and I35, along with the I44 traffic that comes our way going to and from Tulsa. Sometimes it seems like we are a major crossroads for interstate traffic! :wink:
-
He's probably referring to Tulsa at Rush Hour, which isn't a cakewalk.
Likely true. Dusty I apologize... I didn't mean to sound like such a dick
-
I really think the answer is that having the ability to quickly accelerate out of a situation IS a safety concern because it can allow you to DECREASE the probability of a collision or other occurrence that could cause damage to yourself or machine. This is kind of an anti-antidote statement, that the absence of seems to be proof that power is never needed to avoid disaster. "I've never needed it or seen it so it must not be!" :huh:
Some of the discussion sounds like "She turned me into a NEWT!" .... people are claiming that they'll get run over or smashed if they haven't got X amount of horsepower - yet they're NOT run over or smashed, which means that they don't know that it WOULD have happened if they had less horsepower, and don't know that it HASN'T happened because they have MORE.
I know that, although I typically ride a Stelvio in those conditions today, I have spent many a necessary mile on a crowded Interstate on a BSA A65 or something similar .... and I really believe that if you just watch out, try to stay out of the way, and don't try to "duel" with people on an equal basis, you can get down the road just fine ....
Lannis
-
Some years ago, I traveled all over Southern California on a Vespa ET4, a 150 motor. It cruised at 65 + all day on the freeway... In the right lane. With enough planning, I could overtake trucks and slower vehicles. On hills it slowed a lot and passing power was minimal... But manageable. I remember having to 'budget' the Vespas power... And that was part of the fun. I guess the point is, you don't have to have 1000+ cc bike to go somewhere. All is planning and budgeting what you do have. My wife loved the vespa... It was comfortable and classic, and limited you to a more relaxed pace. My V7 stone is a behemoth next to the Vespa, a fire breathing monster by comparison. I enjoy the visceral feel of the V7 and think it has the perfect amount of horsepower... for me and what I need.
I agree. I remember when a 750 was a big bike, a powerhouse.
The world hasn't changed. Merely our expectations.
-
I did mention that... I know my posts are tiringly long sometimes. :embarrassed:
The tiring part must be running around holding a gun to everyone's head to make them read your long posts .... :wink:
Write all you like ... Sometimes, if it's an interesting subject, I'll read all of it and sometimes respond. If it's not so interesting, or if I think you're off on some rabbit trail, I won't read it all .... but in that case, I won't respond either.
The tiresome people are the ones who DON'T read what one writes, and yet they respond to it anyway - in which case they're actually responding to some sort of voice in their head!
So compose away!
Lannis
-
I also know now not to question the power levels of the V7 any more. People feel very emotional anout their choice of bike. I guess one could tour on anything I guess. Once read an article anout a guy that toured on a Whizzer. Safety is related to one's perception of risk.
There are several guys who have successfully completed the Iron Butt Rallies on scooters and 250cc Kawas. You don't need much.
Take the "safety" statements out of all this, then decide what you want to ride. It is perfectly OK to want more power. I'd like to have 20-30 more hp sometimes, but, I don't NEED it to keep from crashing or have someone crash into me.
-
Sometimes it seems like we are a major crossroads for interstate traffic! :wink:
Yeah. I think I-35 / I-40 qualifies as "major crossroads" !!!
Luckily, I've never experienced OKC rush hour. I always time my passage to miss it !
-
I also know now not to question the power levels of the V7 any more. People feel very emotional anout their choice of bike. I guess one could tour on anything I guess.
I was answering your question about 80mph on interstate! I also have a 1100 Breva, a couple of Jackals and a Honda VTX1300 that I loved touring on too. The Breva and Honda are much smoother and don't even feel like they're going fast at all. I look down at the speedometer and oops, I'm going over 100. If that's what you want, don't get the 750. The 750 is lighter weight, very easy to handle and can easily keep up with the others at 85 - 95 mph, but doesn't have the power to pass quickly at those speeds. When touring, I mostly try to stay off interstates and big highways; commuting to work I'm either on interstate or 2 lane highway with an occasional passing lane, depending on where I'm working that day. When I'm riding in Dallas or Houston or Austin rush-hour traffic, I don't think it makes a difference which bike I'm on.
I love all my bikes equally! They're all fun. I'm only 5' 2.5" and I can barely touch the ground on tip toe and the 2013 750 Stone is my tallest bike.
I ride quite a few open range roads here in Texas, some paved and some not, so you've gotta be real careful of livestock. Here's a new friend I met one time who had to come check out the Jackal. He was telling me about his uncle who knew someone who had a Guzzi a long time ago.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/Horse%20near%20Hamilton_zps0erfg4he.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/Horse%20near%20Hamilton_zps0erfg4he.jpg.html)
Here's my others:
'06 Breva 1100
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/Wildguzzi%20Pie%20Run%202-2014/BeaveronSH323_zpsb163c0df.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/Wildguzzi%20Pie%20Run%202-2014/BeaveronSH323_zpsb163c0df.jpg.html)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/Eastland%20Weatherford%20and%20Baird%20March%202012/101_4497.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/Eastland%20Weatherford%20and%20Baird%20March%202012/101_4497.jpg.html)
'00 1100 Jackal
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/Fools%20on%20a%20Hill%20Mt%20Nebo%20March%202010/16-AridethroughMtMagazineStatePark.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/Fools%20on%20a%20Hill%20Mt%20Nebo%20March%202010/16-AridethroughMtMagazineStatePark.jpg.html)
'06 Honda VTX1300
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/AngelAnnievtx/gravel%20roads/BaldTire.jpg) (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/AngelAnnievtx/media/gravel%20roads/BaldTire.jpg.html)
Beaver
-
FWIW:
Having transited I-40 thru OKC numerous times (40 or so in the last few years) at rush hour in AM and PM I can say its a piece of cake. The OKC system is very good with interstate markings on the surface of the lane!!
I wish more states would do this.
If you have to run thru OKC at rush, fear not, unless an accident or lane closure its speed limit or more all the way.
Having said that it can get a bit tense thru the air force base area but still moves good most times.
ABQ is the same.
mike
-
It's probably why Dusty doesn't bother replying on the forum to me... he usually just calls me up and we BS for an hour. :laugh: :azn: :grin:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah , I get cramps trying to keep up with you Kev :grin:
Likely true. Dusty I apologize... I didn't mean to sound like such a dick
No , we all know who the dick is here :shocked:
I'll take two Tulsa rush hours to one OKC (honestly think Tulsa drivers may have a slight advantage in the mental
department). Of course it may also be the huge amount of truck traffic OKC has on I40 and I35, along with the I44 traffic that
comes our way going to and from Tulsa. Sometimes it seems like we are a major crossroads for interstate traffic! :wink:
Yeah , you folks out in OKC are crazy :grin:
VS , my part of Oklahoma is full of curvy roads , and yes , we do have women in minivans doing 90 MPH on them , some of you folks have a complete misconception of what the plains states are like . We actually have electricity , metro areas with crazy drivers , and they tell me we will be getting moving picture shows soon :rolleyes: Look , I've ridden lots of accident free miles, and acceleration has been a tool that has kept me safe more than once . No , you don't need 100 HP , and yes , the new V7 is more than adequate . Slowing down is sometimes an option , but often times there is simply no place to go in heavy traffic , but forward . Cranking up the brakes in a mess of cars can cause a chain reaction behind , and traveling 5 under also causes a snarl . The freeways are the freeways , go with the flow .
Dusty
-
I don't consider rush hours bad unless you are in places like DC, Dallas, LA, etc. And then they are only slow at certain places or if there is an accident.
-
The number of lane changes required to stay on US-412 across northern Tulsa makes it a pain. Add in the constructions zones and a bunch of traffic, and I try to time my trips to miss rush hour. Last week, It was 9:00-9:30 am when we went through, and it wasn't too bad. Coming back through at 9 pm on a Saturday Night was kind of sucky. There's about a 30 mph difference between slow and fast cars and they're all criss-crossing at the junctions: 51, 75, 11, 169, 44. Plus the exits for the busier north/south avenues...
-
I don't consider rush hours bad unless you are in places like DC, Dallas, LA, etc. And then they are only slow at certain places or if there is an accident.
OKC and Tulsa are just as bad . Hell , Rocker's natural habitat in Northwest AR has turned ugly over the last 20 years . Funny , I have heard how bad the traffic in San Francisco is , but having ridden MCs several times in that area , found the drivers to be courteous , and the traffic no heavier than Tulsa or OKC .
Dusty
-
Wow
Never guessed the question would turn into such a heated thread. :popcorn:
-
Rocker's natural habitat in Northwest AR has turned ugly over the last 20 years .
Yeah. I-49 between Fayetteville and Bella Vista are best avoided during rush hours. Especially Friday afternoons !!!
6:30 to 9:00 am, and 4:00 to 7:00 pm.
-
Yeah. I-49 between Fayetteville and Bella Vista are best avoided during rush hours. Especially Friday afternoons !!!
6:30 to 9:00 am, and 4:00 to 7:00 pm.
Now that's comedy !!!!!!!
At least to someone who drives in The Dallas/Ft. Worth Metromess :grin:
-
Now that's comedy !!!!!!!
At least to someone who drives in The Dallas/Ft. Worth Metromess :grin:
Yep we have one interstate with 25-miles of congestion. Small town stuff, for sure. But, Put yourself on I-49 at 0730 on a weekday and tell me how long it takes you to make 10-miles. It's just as bad as any big city. You might be on there for an hour.
DFW's population is about what the population of the entire State of Arkansas is. Metromess is right. Last month, I was down there to pick up my V7 Special in Farmers Branch on a Saturday. Holy Crap! I-35E is a friggin mess! Took me as long to make a couple miles on I-35 as it did to cross over from Fairview on Sam Rayburn Tollway. BTW, Sam Rayburn Tollway is nice! First time I'd ever taken it.
My corporate office is in Frisco Texas. No way they'd ever get me to move down there to the DFW. Visiting is fine, but way too many people, too close together. I'm thankful that curvy two-lane goodness is 5-minutes out of my neighborhood. My metro area has passed 500,000 this year. Way too big for me. My next move is going to be to some small town in the middle of nowhere. I grow more anti-social as I grow older...
-
Now that's comedy !!!!!!!
At least to someone who drives in The Dallas/Ft. Worth Metromess :grin:
I've found DFW is congested but usually moves pretty fast and most know where they are going. Arkansas seems to have a more laid back approach so it takes a while to clear out. Tulsa is close to Arkansas and some must rub off. Chicago and STL are about like Dallas with worse roads. OKC just has questionably skilled drivers that don't know where they are going, but they are gettin' there fast (and they all have a Nascar sticker in their pickup window)! :evil:
-
My metro area has passed 500,000 this year. Way too big for me. My next move is going to be to some small town in the middle of nowhere. I grow more anti-social as I grow older...
Just Funnin' ya.
500,000 people... has it been that long ago?
I went to Berryville,Ar with a buddy of mine on R&R.
We spent 3 weeks partying all over N.W. Arkansas.
Nowhere near that many people when we were there... just a small town.. ..Way before the freeway came in.
-
No doubt DFW is a nightmare , as is Chicago , Los Angeles , Portland , etc etc . But once again , OKC and Tulsa ain't exactly a piece of cake either . Try riding from Owasso OK into Tulsa at 7AM on a weekday when 40,000 commuters seem to believe that they can leave 15 minutes late for work , but by driving 20 over the clock will stand still :shocked: :rolleyes: To top that off , factor in chunks of concrete , bridges carrying 100,000 cars a day that have reinforcement rebar showing through , and a steady stream of interstate truck traffic due to the inland port in Catoosa . OKC , like Biking Sailor has mentioned , is probably worse . try bumper to bumper traffic moving at either 90 MPH , or 50 MPH , and drivers who think using turn signals is optional :huh:
Did you forget where you were? Some of these people live for this stuff.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
This discussion isn't really heated , just a camp fire exchange among friends ... I think :evil: :grin: Oh , and no one has yet mentioned Houston traffic , sheesh , don't ever go there , buncha crazies :laugh:
Dusty
-
Well that makes perfect sense to me.
First the gearing on the Cali is taller, meaning its motor is spinning slower (further away from peak power) at the same highway speed as a V7. So the V7, already higher in the powerband SHOULD roll on better.
Yes, I think your weight is helping. At my weight it's almost like I'm carrying a passenger too compared to just you solo. Plus I have HB bags on mine (and sometimes a topcase) which add to wind drag.
And as mentioned there are the differences in bike weights too.
Let's look at some relative specs (I know they don't tell the whole story, but they paint at least part of the picture, most specs from Motorcycle Consumer News, but some filled in from other sources):
Jackal vs. Black Eagle vs. Cal-Vin vs. V7 Stone (2013-15)
Wet Weight: 572# / 589# / 616# / 443#
RWHP: 63 / 68 / 68 / 40
Torque: 60 / 58 / 58 / 41
Standing 1/4 mile: 13.74 / 13.35 / 13.2 (not MCN) / 14.29
The 1/4 mile figures show slight differences. The Cal-Vin number is a test variance from a different source, there's no reason it should be quicker than the same motor/ECU (but lighter) Black Eagle. The numbers show a slight advantage WOT from a dead stand still that goes to the Breva1100 engine internals in the Black Eagle/Cal-Vin, and that the Jackal (another lighter, stripped variant compared to an EV or many other Tonti Calis) which likely goes to the slight hp to weight ratio advantage of the Tonti Cali vs. the V7.
I should add the top speeds in the 1/4 mile for the Black Eagle (fastest) vs. the V7 (slowest) were 100 mph vs. 90 mph.
I don't have the figure for the Jackal noted, but looking at the times, let's split the difference and call it about 95 mph.
So in a standing 1/4 there might be a 5 mph difference between a stripped Cali and a V7, that's not much.
And any sudden "need" for acceleration on the highway it's going to come down to the particular rider/bike and conditions. I mean, how much weight are you carrying, windshield and bags for drag, do you try to roll on or drop it gear?
To me, that's basically an RCH.
Thanks for posting this info. Just for giggles I wonder what the 0-60 times are for those same bikes? If I recall correctly my former little Street Triple used to make it to 60 faster than its big brother Speed, but by the end of the quarter mile the Speed had plenty tagged it.
-
Thanks for posting this info. Just for giggles I wonder what the 0-60 times are for those same bikes? If I recall correctly my former little Street Triple used to make it to 60 faster than its big brother Speed, but by the end of the quarter mile the Speed had plenty tagged it.
Really what we all need is a Rocket 3 that weigh 400 LBS :grin: Wholey Schmoley :shocked: Of course , I did just fine on a 40 Shetland /5 for years , but passing was often an adventure :laugh: Last year coming back from Luap's deal , riding a very curvy road on the Jackal , there was an RX8 being driven by someone who was obviously impaired , speeding up slowing down , driving on the gravel verge . No place to pass , and not wanting to get caught up in this cars upcoming mess , backed off and started looking for a safe place to pull off . A K1600 GT came up from behind , and simply zapped the RX8 on a short straight , sometimes 145 HP is useful .
Dusty
-
Whoa! Forgot about Houston. About 5 or 7 odd years ago I was the unfortunate one (read didn't know enough to refuse) that got elected to drive the van pulling a Hobie 33 sail boat through Houston during the afternoon on our way to HYC for the Harvest Moon Regatta. Had nightmares about that one for quite a while!
-
No place to pass , and not wanting to get caught up in this cars upcoming mess , backed off and started looking for a safe place to pull off . A K1600 GT came up from behind , and simply zapped the RX8 on a short straight , sometimes 145 HP is useful .
Dusty
Back in my younger/WAY Dumber days I would have passed on the guy one of my fast bikes.
Sold ALL of them 2 years ago :grin: and now take the option you did...Get off the road and let them get on down the road.
-
Back in my younger/WAY Dumber days I would have passed on the guy one of my fast bikes.
Sold ALL of them 2 years ago :grin: and now take the option you did...Get off the road and let them get on down the road.
Don't misunderstand , given the accelerative capabilities of the K1600 , probably would have zapped the RX8 :grin: But yeah , really much wiser to back off ... dangit :evil:
Dusty
-
Don't misunderstand , given the accelerative capabilities of the K1600 , probably would have zapped the RX8 :grin: But yeah , really much wiser to back off ... dangit :evil:
Dusty
I understand...That was one of the most fun things for me about riding was to drop a couple gears and pass someone going way too fast!!!!
I have come to realize that I'm NOT the rider I was or most probably "thought" I was.
Thankfully, the Eldo leaves me no other option but let them get on down the road...which is a good thing..Alan
-
My small block can win races - easy! :wink:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic014/slow_bike_race_0_zps45euhhr5.jpg)
-
I understand...That was one of the most fun things for me about riding was to drop a couple gears and pass someone going way too fast!!!!
I have come to realize that I'm NOT the rider I was or most probably "thought" I was.
Thankfully, the Eldo leaves me no other option but let them get on down the road...which is a good thing..Alan
No Rossi here either , well , except in my own mind :grin: The guy riding the K1600 gassed up next to me about 15 minutes before encountering the RX8 , don't know how he got behind , as he left before . Guess maybe since spending 27 large on the Beemer , he is gonna use the performance capabilities . Dang , all it took was a twist , and he was gone bye bye .
Dusty
-
I'll add to the touring discussion by saying I've taken my V7 on 3 trips of over 2000 miles each with no issues at all. Here is a picture while riding on highway 395 and the Eastern Sierra Nevada's.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/RickFi/Trip%20two/P1010050_zps8f6db9a5.jpg) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/RickFi/media/Trip%20two/P1010050_zps8f6db9a5.jpg.html)
Of course I'm not doing 80 mph here but just 70 mph with the temps at 105 degrees and the V7 isn't worried at all. I'm not a small guy (6' 260 lbs) and the bike is toting me and my luggage.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/RickFi/Trip%20two/P1010099_zpsbcaf83bd.jpg) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/RickFi/media/Trip%20two/P1010099_zpsbcaf83bd.jpg.html)
As far as the power issue that is being discussed here, how does a HD 883 Sportster compare to a V7? There must be many many more of the HD's on the road compared to the Guzzi but I don't hear reports of them being run over (I suppose they do have the loud pipes advantage). I've never ridden the Sportster so can't say if it has more get up and go than my V7 but I'm sure others have done so.
-
I see loads of Sportys...mostly parked by the taverns ....only ever saw a few on Interstate for any distance.
Seemed to do ok.
I had my one and only ever Sportster ( a '76 XLH ) and I still think my forearm bones are not right from all those vibes many years ago. It would use all 1000cc on accel but after about 65mph it would rattle the fillings in your teeth. I get it- they're better now-but for others, not me. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
-
Current Sportsters weigh about 550-lbs. They have a little more power than a V7, but a severe weight penalty.
Top speed for an 883 is about 95 mph. I've BTDT on the last one I owned. Full dirt track tuck, downhill, just kissed the ton.
Power is all about wants and not needs. As you mention, there are hundreds of thousands of Sportsters running the highways and few complaints.
Kev M will be here shortly to back me up, and to also mention the ubiquitous nature of Stage 1 kits that help them a lot.
-
Current Sportsters weigh about 550-lbs. They have a little more power than a V7, but a severe weight penalty.
Kev M will be here shortly to back me up
While he's at it, could he also explain the pirate outfits?
Oh come on! What?? What'd I say???
-
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61973233.jpg)
Yes, the Sportster 883.
Well, current models range in the 550-566# range wet, 48 rwhp / 47 ft. lbs. torque (but they're a quick set of mufflers, no reflash necessary, from 50+ / 50+). Stock they are a very similar 14.6 1/4 mile at about 90 mph. They are geared a little lower than the 1200 Sportys so they are busier on the highway, but it actually helps make of for the heft in the git' up n' go department.
Jenn rode her 883 from PA to FL and back (in MARCH) of the year she bought it.
She also toured on it, up and down the blue ridge, through Deal's Gap, and through a number of other busy northeastern states/cities.
She was never run over on it either.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RDP3Nv-_XA9aajpHqNsR0QpS6sl_0_nzjBfKS2h2hyx11gisUANnjXCruR2vZqTQ7Nw6miiZaivw66SrQ195YO95iSHocC3Vz5atnifVU6YLUXBA_L3Kc_N8ydDkwb4uVDRXOGdI5aXe7mBQdtxDNtE-y87l1k4r5mNVP3qp8qegsEltzxzEdZnOyDgPrJ5gtB-SeFKvPkL_JlJw64Gi9gBFTE8zWlC0ZSGdWK8_dfaLWn9aXdybk5WseAXWsuw2eIr3SOy6Ib0j81gYFak3vM761pHgL9FweCZCdS4Oz28FtDeEeYh_oQhMAth32RrS985ZEqe7fuBQhlAz9Eaqd1StML91cUgkme0qx6KCK6G-ZSLjgVHr793OsXbI6760VBJUvNP0NRcllfNQLGEAGvvJMiskX9ivusC2N7y1lzQQnYx7BkAR5hdr-1eFHnDD125X21SMEOpPmLw-XaWIfDOMXQ1RctsUHLt-u8u_KGGyAnFqsemjP_ryPWOIkZh6sGoVJpeoQ9VDvyT24WlOYYXfIGYE4Kl0veJh7-Louqc=w576-h497-no)
While he's at it, could he also explain the pirate outfits?
Oh come on! What?? What'd I say???
Sorry missed this.
Ohhhh PUUUHHHLEEEEZZEEEE, seriously Pirate?
What self-respecting pirate would dress like this:
(http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/435613/modules/forum/attachments/eHFwNTY2MTI%3D_o_blue-oyster-bar_1384640842.jpg)
I see loads of Sportys...mostly parked by the taverns ....only ever saw a few on Interstate for any distance.
Seemed to do ok.
I had my one and only ever Sportster ( a '76 XLH ) and I still think my forearm bones are not right from all those vibes many years ago. It would use all 1000cc on accel but after about 65mph it would rattle the fillings in your teeth. I get it- they're better now-but for others, not me.
Talk to Stormtruck about his experience the other weekend - he did what something like 550+ miles on mine in less than 24 hours:
(https://bill-and-kathi.smugmug.com/photos/i-7KWhQnW/0/X3/i-7KWhQnW-X3.jpg)
I'm told his interstate speed was a steady 85 for an hour or two each way, then he hit the twisties with a Griso.
-
Ohhhh PUUUHHHLEEEEZZEEEE, seriously Pirate?
What self-respecting pirate would dress like this:
(http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/435613/modules/forum/attachments/eHFwNTY2MTI%3D_o_blue-oyster-bar_1384640842.jpg)
:grin:
Gorgeous Sporty, btw.