Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: LeakyLogic on September 17, 2015, 09:01:44 AM
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I heard some good reviews on the book, 'Let's Ride: Sonny Barger's Guide to Motorcycling' so I purchased it. The book was written in 2010. I got to page 40 in the inline triples section and he bashes Italian motorcycles quality and factory workers. I would think he has some street credit, but I don't buy his logic because it may be an outdated view. I am partial to MG because of their engineering and ease of self-maintenance and repair, not to mention the community and the experience they provide. Surely this forum speaks volumes about their positive design and construction. I mention his book because I would like to know how many Guzzi fans have read the book and their opinions regarding his dislikes of MG, He also doesn't seem like HD and has positively promoted Victory.
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Sonny Barger can write?
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Sonny Barger can write?
Drug kingpin, extortionist, murderer and now author!
I don't see mechanical engineer on his resume so I will discount his remarks on Guzzi.
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"Sonny Barger remains an active member of the Hells Angels in the Cave Creek Chapter having moved there from Oakland in 1998. He has owned 10 to 12 motorcycles throughout his life."
Only 10 to 12?
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Truth is , Sonny Barger is full of poop . The guy relied on others to build his bikes , and do his dirty work . Once heard him say in an interview around '99 , "Yeah , my new Harleys , man , it'll just cruise at 100 MPH all day , no problem" .
Dusty
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Many people write about things that they do not know first hand.
One key aspect with motorcycles is that different people have very different opinions and approaches to machines and life in general.
People who buy new cars every two or three years, do not know how to use a screwdriver, get all their service work done by a dealer, and expect complete reliability and ease of use. Probably get Honda and be happy. Would not even like Harley. Generally dull people, often with intolerance for others. Italian anything is bad. Good Japanese brands are very good. BMW cars and bikes are good.
People who buy used US brand cars mostly, who expect to have things need maintenance and work sometimes, but who don't do any of the work and don't understand machines well, and who like very conventional things. They'll get Japanese bikes, probably cruisers and standards, maybe touring, and will get on board the Harley $400/month probably, have a dealer or independent do everything and have a Harley as their only new vehicle. Or will buy used and put up with it. They'll do a bit of research. Scared of Italian bikes of 1980 still.
Like interesting cars, know quite a bit about machines, can't afford the money or risk of a cool car, likes bikes, gets a Ducati or Guzzi and does some stuff on it. Tolerates the quirky. Laughs at Harleys.
Motorheads who always, even in suits, have just a touch of grease somewhere, pictures of themselves grinning covered in grease standing in a shop at 5 years old, changing an engine with family at 30, have owned/worked on XYZ cars and bikes. Looks for feel, coolness, loves quirky, wants one of everything just to have it cuz it's cool, has 30 bikes and cars. They'll be Italian stuff in there. And a shovelhead.
Motorheads who grew up on Brit sports cars, love Italian design, love Harley macho weird, love Japanese machinery and design, love cool, gets the one that sings to them, enjoys the quirky.
So anyone in the first category is going to have a bad opinion of Italian bikes. Anyone with aesthetic sensibilities is going to enjoy looking at and understanding Italian bikes, understanding what Harley is about, is probably going to enjoy the old Valkyrie looks, etc. Especially if they can't really ride.
If Barger is an asshole and in the first couple, he will bash a few things and not be shy about it. Can't see how he would get any cred from cognizant motorcyclists for an ill-informed opinion.
I notice the fake pirates will look from afar, the real bikers of any brand are all over the 1400.
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Truth is , Sonny Barger is full of poop . The guy relied on others to build his bikes , and do his dirty work . Once heard him say in an interview around '99 , "Yeah , my new Harleys , man , it'll just cruise at 100 MPH all day , no problem" .
Dusty
Maybe his bike has a metric speedo and he mistook MPH for KPH :evil:
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...He also doesn't seem like HD and has positively promoted Victory.
I read that he got his Victory from Arlen Ness for $1. Sounds to me like a paid promotion deal with a middleman so Victory doesn't have to admit it.
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+ 1 on all previous , and: he is the same guy who said in a SF City Bike interview years ago that, if it weren't for the image,(sponsorship?) and other assorted reasons , he would ride a Honda....
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Maybe his bike has a metric speedo and he mistook MPH for KPH :evil:
:laugh:
+ 1 on all previous , and: he is the same guy who said in a SF City Bike interview years ago that, if it weren't for the image,(sponsorship?) and other assorted reasons , he would ride a Honda....
Yeah , being full of poop does not preclude intelligence
I read that he got his Victory from Arlen Ness for $1. Sounds to me like a paid promotion deal with a middleman so Victory doesn't have to admit it.
In the good doctors book on the HA's , Thompson states that Barger , more than anything else , is an opportunistic politician.
Dusty
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Why would anyone care what SB had to say?
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:laugh:
Yeah , being full of poop does not preclude intelligence
In the good doctors book on the HA's , Thompson states that Barger , more than anything else , is an opportunistic politician.
Dusty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccyu44rsaZo
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In the good doctors book on the HA's , Thompson states that Barger , more than anything else , is an opportunistic politician.
I enjoyed that book.
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In the good doctors book on the HA's , Thompson states that Barger , more than anything else , is an opportunistic politician.
Dusty
Probably required for the job. I've been watching some of the episodes of "Outlaw Chronicles" on History Channel.
Interesting insight from the former honcho of the Ventura chapter.
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Many people write about things that they do not know first hand......
People who buy new cars every two or three years, do not know how to use a screwdriver, get all their service work done by a dealer, and expect complete reliability and ease of use. Probably get Honda and be happy. Would not even like Harley. Generally dull people, often with intolerance for others......
Like interesting cars, know quite a bit about machines, can't afford the money or risk of a cool car, likes bikes, gets a Ducati or Guzzi and does some stuff on it. Tolerates the quirky. Laughs at Harleys.....
Etc., etc.
I think this opinionating is as biased and uninformed as Sonny Barger's.
There are folks out there who are in one category about cars and in another category about motorcycles. Myself, for example. For a car, I drive a Prius because it's very reliable and inexpensive to drive, and I have zero interest in maintaining it myself. For a motorcycle, I'm on my second Moto Guzzi, I do all the maintenance myself, and I'm very technically aware of how everything on it works.
I have no opinion about Harleys, although I do have strong views about SOME Harley riders.
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I enjoyed that book.
It was a great book
Probably required for the job. I've been watching some of the episodes of "Outlaw Chronicles" on History Channel.
Interesting insight from the former honcho of the Ventura chapter.
The whole outlaw thing is an interesting study in psychology , they represent the worst in human behavior , in fact , they revel in their baddassery . Funny thing is , most of the types drawn to that lifestyle are looking for someone to map out their lives , what MC to ride , when to poop , how to act . Kind of like a college fraternity gone weird :evil:
Dusty
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Why would anyone care what SB had to say?
Because so many people, with dull, unfulfilled, controlled little lives see him as an admirable, tough, independent role model, their ideal of a Free, In The Wind, etc etc ....
Kind of pathetic.
Lannis
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I think this opinionating is as biased and uninformed as Sonny Barger's.
There are folks out there who are in one category about cars and in another category about motorcycles. Myself, for example. For a car, I drive a Prius because it's very reliable and inexpensive to drive, and I have zero interest in maintaining it myself. For a motorcycle, I'm on my second Moto Guzzi, I do all the maintenance myself, and I'm very technically aware of how everything on it works.
I have no opinion about Harleys, although I do have strong views about SOME Harley riders.
:thumb:
The choice to ride or drive a particular brand or model if anything is just that, a choice. Choosing to maintain a car or motorcycle is also a choice and maintaining it yourself shouldn't be a necessity or seen as a rite of passage to anything. Hopefully, if you choose to service a bike it is because you enjoy it, not because it needs constant attention.
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I mention his book because I would like to know how many Guzzi fans have read the book and their opinions regarding his dislikes of MG, He also doesn't seem like HD and has positively promoted Victory.
I have not read the book and I doubt that I'll be reading it. I don't need a "guide to motorcycling", other than my own internal guide, which has developed over many years. I have never put a lot of weight on what others like and dislike with respect to motorcycles; I will read reviews and listen to others, but I'll form my own opinions, and they're usually different from that of the herd. I have loved owning and riding Moto Guzzi. They're not for everyone, but they're perfect for me.
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I like this quote from him:
"Women. Ya can't live with them and ya can't make soup from their bones".
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I like this quote from him:
"Women. Ya can't live with them and ya can't make soup from their bones".
Sort of like all the clever, tough-boy remarks from someone like Hunter Thompson.
You can read his stuff about his "one giant motorcycle for myself", his BSA, or nattering about Vincents, and any real motorcyclist will immediately figure out that he knows very little about actual motorcycling, and a lot about all the BS surrounding motorcycling .....
Lannis
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Lannis, sorry you don't get Thompson , and for sure he was weird , but he did in fact ride quite a bit , and some of us can relate to him . Besides , it wasn't him bashing Eyetalian motorbikes , he liked them .
Dusty
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It was a great book
The whole outlaw thing is an interesting study in psychology , they represent the worst in human behavior , in fact , they revel in their baddassery . Funny thing is , most of the types drawn to that lifestyle are looking for someone to map out their lives , what MC to ride , when to poop , how to act . Kind of like a college fraternity gone weird :evil:
Dusty
They are social misfits, looking for a place to belong. No different than any other street gangs, or ISIS for that matter. I need someone to replace mommy and daddy and tell me what to do...
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he WROTE a book ? lol
but i agreed, don't buy italian bikes , they all suck..... :boozing:
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I think this opinionating is as biased and uninformed as Sonny Barger's.
There are folks out there who are in one category about cars and in another category about motorcycles. Myself, for example. For a car, I drive a Prius because it's very reliable and inexpensive to drive, and I have zero interest in maintaining it myself. For a motorcycle, I'm on my second Moto Guzzi, I do all the maintenance myself, and I'm very technically aware of how everything on it works.
I have no opinion about Harleys, although I do have strong views about SOME Harley riders.
:1: Problem with pigeon holing people, is most don't fit in the holes. :evil:
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Sonny who??
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We know his name simply because he was a pice of societal filth.
He writes a book assuming success due to notoriety or notoriosity.
Neither he nor those hitching their wagons to him will get one lousy cent of any money I have worked for and likely paid taxes on.
Todd.
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I heard or read an interview with Barger, and he seemed like a sensible guy who'd ridden a lot of miles on Harleys, almost feeling he had to choose that brand for image's sake, and decided he didn't like them in the end. I think his knowledge extends to at least one other brand that he likes better (Victory).
What he is reported to have said about Italian motorcycles is not an uncommon opinion, but is not really important to any of us, right?
So...,
Moto
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These guys portray themselves as rugged individualists, but they think, act, ride, and dress as a group. While he might have an interesting book, �why would he have credibility for anyone who is not a groupie?
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I have a low opinion of these HA guys having lived near (behind) their NYC clubhouse. I was regularly awakened in the middle of the night by blood curling screams from inside that building and at some point they took over the building next to it and muscled the owner out until I guess he paid them off. Barger may have softened over the years but that doesn't change my opinion of the group, though I might change my mind if he comes out with a cookbook but that depends on the recipes.
And I rarely observed a single rider wearing the jacket as they seemed to always move in mass.
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I have a low opinion of these HA guys having lived near (behind) their NYC clubhouse. I was regularly awakened in the middle of the night by blood curling screams from inside that building and at some point they took over the building next to it and muscled the owner out until I guess he paid them off. Barger may have softened over the years but that doesn't change my opinion of the group, though I might change my mind if he comes out with a cookbook but that depends on the recipes.
And I rarely observed a single rider wearing the jacket as they seemed to always move in mass.
Same here. But now they have appeared to pick up a new farm tema, the Sons of Hell.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BEch6HTCAAABHvl.jpg)
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Having just purchased this book and getting to the portion about MG, I will not read it with the same enthusiasm as when I bought it or at all. Perhaps I'll put it in the bathroom.
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They are social misfits, looking for a place to belong. No different than any other street gangs, or ISIS for that matter. I need someone to replace mommy and daddy and tell me what to do...
Arrested development displayed in public. I find the patch thugs to be very sad individuals with no ability to define themselves on their own merit. There is nothing glamorous or admirable about an outlaw biker.
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Lannis, sorry you don't get Thompson , and for sure he was weird , but he did in fact ride quite a bit , and some of us can relate to him . Besides , it wasn't him bashing Eyetalian motorbikes , he liked them .
Dusty
I DO "get" Thompson. I don't like who he pretended to be, and much of it WAS pretense, regardless of how much he claimed to ride.
What you don't understand is that I "get" him, but I have an opinion of him and his writing which is different from yours. It's called "diversity"; but there's not much "tolerance" for "diversity" sometimes, I see .... some people can understand differences of opinion only in terms of "you must not understand, then".
Lannis
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I DO "get" Thompson. I don't like who he pretended to be, and much of it WAS pretense, regardless of how much he claimed to ride.
What you don't understand is that I "get" him, but I have an opinion of him and his writing which is different from yours. It's called "diversity"; but there's not much "tolerance" for "diversity" sometimes, I see .... some people can understand differences of opinion only in terms of "you must not understand, then".
Lannis
Dunno , everything I ever read about the man written by other writers pretty much confirmed that he was the real deal . Probably crazier than even he claimed to be . Now, he certainly was not a role model , didn't claim to be .
Oh , and asking someone to be tolerant of intolerance ... hmm , well that seems a bit odd , just sayin .
Dusty
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vySsJJh54Ik
(https://kentuckypress.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/advice-hunter-s-thompson-copy.jpg?w=914)
(http://img.eatsleepride.com/content/list/_20778.png)
(https://hstbooks.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/hst_bike.jpg)
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Oh , and asking someone to be tolerant of intolerance ... hmm , well that seems a bit odd , just sayin .
Dusty
That's how you give YOURSELF a license to be intolerant of others' opinions, while maintaining the fiction of "tolerance" on your part.
Seen it over and over again.
Lannis
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That's how you give YOURSELF a license to be intolerant of others' opinions, while maintaining the fiction of "tolerance" on your part.
Seen it over and over again.
Lannis
Uh , sure Lannis , whatever you say .
Dusty
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If someone is scared off of an Italian motorcycle because of one person's opinion then they shouldn't buy an Italian motorcycle. More for me to look at and buy. :laugh:
"Yep...hard to get parts for. I have to work it. Yeah, Honda Makes a better bike." Of course, after a period of time they start to wonder when they see me still riding the same brand or the same model years later. :laugh:
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Funny part is, during the years of Sonny's rise in the HA (late 60s and early 70s), Moto Guzzi offered road eating V7s, Ambos, Eldos, early Tonti bikes. OR you could buy a rickety Panhead, Shovel, or Sportster and a tattoo. :laugh: OR an Exxon Valdese Brit bike. :wink: I wish I had heard of Moto Guzzi at a younger age. :clock: I liked the workmanship that went into the better choppers, and I still have a soft spot for homemade bikes built from discards. But, even if the HA bikes were really well maintained, they had nothing on the Guzzis or BMWs of the day.
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Funny part is, during the years of Sonny's rise in the HA (late 60s and early 70s), Moto Guzzi offered road eating V7s, Ambos, Eldos, early Tonti bikes. OR you could buy a rickety Panhead, Shovel, or Sportster and a tattoo. :laugh: OR an Exxon Valdese Brit bike. :wink: I wish I had heard of Moto Guzzi at a younger age. :clock: I liked the workmanship that went into the better choppers, and I still have a soft spot for homemade bikes built from discards. But, even if the HA bikes were really well maintained, they had nothing on the Guzzis or BMWs of the day.
A HD comparison to a BMW or Ambassador would be a stock Electra Glide not a chopped or bobbed Harley. And back then a nicely tuned Big Twin a was fine machine for general use or long trips. And if your bike had problems there is no better machine to have a break down than a Harley :laugh:
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And back then a nicely tuned Big Twin a was fine machine for general use or long trips. And if your bike had problems there is no better machine to have a break down than a Harley :laugh:
Not just back then, either. I had three stock Big twins, sort of "one from each era" - a '54 FLE Hydra-Glide 50th Anniversary, a '65 first-year Electra Glide, and an '84 last-of-the-Shovelheads with belt final drive and disk brakes.
From a maintenance, fixability, and cruisin' on the highway standpoint, you can't beat 'em. You have to accommodate the brakes on the old ones, and don't lean too far or too fast on ANY of them, but I'd have another one in a minute.
Lannis