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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigbikerrick on September 22, 2015, 04:22:53 PM
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Hello Folks, My son is starting a Nurse Practitioner program next month that will require him to commute 260 miles round trip 3-4 times a month, over the next 3 years. mostly 2 lane backroads, and some interstate. His F 150 truck is not very fuel efficient, so me being retired and having all the "time in the world" he has tasked me the job of helping him find a nice used car for him. His car budget is about $9K , he wants to buy used from a private party, to save $. I am not at all familiar with all the different Korean cars out there, and dont even know if any of those would be a good choice. He wants an automatic transmission, and a car that is comforatable, and safe on the road, 4 door preferred, but 2 is okay. It should get at least 30 mpg, or better. What does the group recommend? Any cars to specifically avoid? All comments, and advice appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Rick.
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First Odd, congrats to him and best of luck on the program.
Personally I have observed that KIA and Hyundai have come a very long way and think they could be good bets for price be value.
I get the impression most JAPanInc. brands are solid, but I'm not convinced that Nissan is as good as the others (sometimes cut corners on materials and such on their less expensive models) though our Juke is a blast (albeit not as economical as he would want). I just don't always think Toyota and Honda are worth the premium.
Of domestic brands I think I'd pick Ford for this application as they have some decent small cars. I'm a odd/niche vehicle loyalist so I'd probably buy something Jeep and not worry about the lack of economy.
If he was spending more I would wonder if there would soon be deals on VW's, as a late-model Rabbit would do the trick.
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Thanks Kevin, with the deal going on with VWs , a rabbit may be a good value. This only affects the TDI diesels, Right?
Rick,
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I have a VW diesel and love it. Regularly get 50mpg. Best I've gotten was 69mpg. More in his price range, I'd recommend the first gen honda fit... if he can get a second gen even better. It's a four door hatch and the seats both fold up and down. I've put 2 mountain bikes and a 6 foot step ladder in that car at the same time. With the rear seats folded, he wouldn't miss his F150. That honda has a crap load of space. Also got about 33-36mpg with that one.
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Hello Folks, My son is starting a Nurse Practitioner program next month that will require him to commute 260 miles round trip 3-4 times a month, over the next 3 years. mostly 2 lane backroads, and some interstate. His F 150 truck is not very fuel efficient, so me being retired and having all the "time in the world" he has tasked me the job of helping him find a nice used car for him. His car budget is about $9K , he wants to buy used from a private party, to save $. I am not at all familiar with all the different Korean cars out there, and dont even know if any of those would be a good choice. He wants an automatic transmission, and a car that is comforatable, and safe on the road, 4 door preferred, but 2 is okay. It should get at least 30 mpg, or better. What does the group recommend? Any cars to specifically avoid? All comments, and advice appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Rick.
I've rented a LOT of small Japanese cars for business trips, and the only one that felt low-quality and didn't do well for me was a Nissan Versa.
But based on the cars I've owned and rented over the years, I don't think you can go wrong with almost any small Japanese car. And $9K from a private party should get you a good one. Just to be practical, AVOID ones that were driven (and/or modified) by young men like you and I used to be .... Cars that Daddy maintained for their young daughters who are now married and need a mini-van have been good ones for me .....
Lannis
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Thanks Kevin, with the deal going on with VWs , a rabbit may be a good value. This only affects the TDI diesels, Right?
Rick,
Yes, it only affects diesels.
A late model ( < 10 yrs old) Focus should be a good reliable commuter that you can get for a reasonable price.
ANY small 4 cyl. car will get way better fuel economy than the F150.
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Another of my "observation, not recommendation" posts: My daughter bought an 18 year old Ford Escort for under $1,000 to get her to/from/around college. That thing appears to be bullet proof, gets great mileage, has reliable air conditioning, auto trans, etc.. I wouldn't hesitate to get an Escort or Focus for inexpensive, reliable transportation.
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Toyota Corolla is about as reliable as it gets. my 2010 commuter appliance is past 140k miles and has had one scheduled service besides oil and filters, tires and brake pads) and zero repairs. It's reasonably comfortable (more so than comparable Hondas or Hyundais IMO) and boring as hell. I average 35MPG in combined City/Hwy mpg. I have the S model (means it looks sporty without actually being sporty).
Out here, used toyotas fetch a premium price due to their reputation. If that is the case where you are, there may be better alternatives.
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I buy Subarus at about 100,000 miles, and run them to 250,000+. Purchase price is $3500 to $4500 and the first timing belt has already been replaced (about 80,000 miles). This leaves room in the budget for a clutch (about $900) and if necessary a brake job. Get a Legacy or Forester, not a WRX, and you can pretty much be assured that it never ran on testosterone.
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Ford Focus. Great car, buy American !
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Accord, Altima, Camry, Civic, Corolla, Versa, Mazda 3. Maybe a Focus. I'd stay clear of the Korean cars for used.
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I will never buy another Toyota. I had very bad experience with the last 2 ('01 & '04). I feel they are living on their past reputation to boost their price. My first 2, a '77 and an '80 couldn't be stopped. I got rid of them at over 150K miles because I wanted a new car.
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Ford Focus. Great car, buy American !
Soon to be built in Mexico......sure buy American.
http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/07/ford-motor-company-moving-car-production-to-mexico/
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My 2012 Mazda3 is worth about $9k. I've got 88k on it have replace the plugs, tires and filters above regular oil changes. The computer says I get 35mph with a 42mph average speed using 87 octane ($1.64/gal here).
Not bad...
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Is his F150 pickup truck paid for? will the car payment of the new car be more or less than his gas expenses? You can buy a lot of gas for a $300 car payment..
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Avoid late model Ford Focus with the dual clutch auto transmission like the plague. There is a reason that Ford extended the warranty on the transmission alone to 100K miles.
Pile of dung.
(Spent 2012 to 2014 as service manager in a Ford dealership.)
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Soon to be built in Mexico......sure buy American.
http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/07/ford-motor-company-moving-car-production-to-mexico/
Regardless of where any vehicle is built, one thing remains the same- where the profits ultimately go. Which is one reason why I buy American cars....the other being the superior engineering and quality. I can only speak for Ford but they have been making great stuff for years. The foreign cars have nothing on them. Largest recalls ever (save VW perhaps)- Honda Odyssey Transmission and Toyota "carpet" issue lol.
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Avoid late model Ford Focus with the dual clutch auto transmission like the plague. There is a reason that Ford extended the warranty on the transmission alone to 100K miles.
Pile of dung.
(Spent 2012 to 2014 as service manager in a Ford dealership.)
:1:
And the Fiesta with the dual clutch trans. We have several in my family and all have had problems.
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Have you considered a Toyota Yaris? If there are not too many mountains on the commute the Yaris is a great car. I get 35mpg running around town, 37.5 mpg at 70 to 75 mph and 42 mpg at 50 to 60 mph. Pick up a used one with 30 to 40 k miles and they are reasonably priced. Get one with an auto trans, power locks and 15 inch wheels (for the best gas mileage) and its a great commuter. Good bang for the buck. Don't get one with the manual trans or 14 inch wheels, unless you can swap them for 15's. The other one to consider is the Corolla. Cant go wrong with that one. All the best.
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My 2012 Mazda3 is worth about $9k. I've got 88k on it have replace the plugs, tires and filters above regular oil changes. The computer says I get 35mph with a 42mph average speed using 87 octane ($1.64/gal here).
Not bad...
That's a GOOD CAR, and possibly my number one JAPanInc. Brand/Product!
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My 2012 Mazda3 is worth about $9k. I've got 88k on it have replace the plugs, tires and filters above regular oil changes. The computer says I get 35mph with a 42mph average speed using 87 octane ($1.64/gal here).
Not bad...
yeah. my sons have had 3 Mazda hatches between them (2 Mazda 3 and a Protege 5). Great cars. Fun to dive and practical. Built at the same plant with the old Focus. Add these to the list.
Like any used car, look for one in good condition that's been cared for and maintained.
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Avoid late model Ford Focus with the dual clutch auto transmission like the plague. There is a reason that Ford extended the warranty on the transmission alone to 100K miles.
Pile of dung.
(Spent 2012 to 2014 as service manager in a Ford dealership.)
any advice on a Focus ST? My youngest is looking at '14 model. Really clean car. Turbo scares me along with the Ford badge.
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any advice on a Focus ST? My youngest is looking at '14 model. Really clean car. Turbo scares me along with the Ford badge.
Save his/her pennies and go for the new Focus RS!!!!
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Nooooooooooooo ! Not for him.
Maybe for me though. Although, the turbo and Ford badge still scare me.
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any advice on a Focus ST? My youngest is looking at '14 model. Really clean car. Turbo scares me along with the Ford badge.
Focus ST for a teenager? (I don't know how old your youngest is). 270 HP = high insurance (if he's < 25).
Otherwise, FUN, FUN car!
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Focus ST for a teenager? (I don't know how old your youngest is). 270 HP = high insurance (if he's < 25).
Otherwise, FUN, FUN car!
He's 26 and an engineer, has a job, and can pay cash or finance at 3%. He's priced insurance too. I'd still wish he'd get a Honda or another Mazda. But that ST is a pretty nice ride and he found a beauty. I just hope the turbo isn't a grenade.
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Comfortable safe, above 30 mpg, get a big car! Buick Lesabre/Park Avenue with a 3.8L was one of the finest automobiles on the road. Interstate speeds average about 36 mpg.
Replace the intake gaskets with felpro metal gaskets and the engine is good to go. I've seen many well cared for cars with 250,000+ miles.
Being a GM service manager for about 15 years I've seen many small cars not hold a candle to them for the overall package with what your looking for. You could easily get a good example in or below that price.
PS I'm 40 and if I had to buy a car that would be #1 on my list
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Comfortable safe, above 30 mpg, get a big car! Buick Lesabre/Park Avenue with a 3.8L was one of the finest automobiles on the road. Interstate speeds average about 36 mpg.
Replace the intake gaskets with felpro metal gaskets and the engine is good to go. I've seen many well cared for cars with 250,000+ miles.
Being a GM service manager for about 15 years I've seen many small cars not hold a candle to them for the overall package with what your looking for. You could easily get a good example in or below that price.
PS I'm 40 and if I had to buy a car that would be #1 on my list
I just sold my mom's 04 Le Sabre with 109k for $3k. He wouldn't get tickets in it that's for sure! And it does get 28mpg or so average.
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I just got a nice 2004 Subaru Forester for my college kid in Duluth.. He needs reliable transport to his job at Spirit Mountain (really a big hill) I expect it will last till he graduates.. a lot of Subaru owners are fanatic about the brand.
I went to CL and searched the word "owner" to find an original owner with complete service records and all work done at the dealership.. I was second caller and lucky me the first guy was buying for his college daughter who rejected the red color! it's a nice dark red my son equates to UMD maroon !
when you find a good candidate be quick and ready to make a down payment on the spot after you check it out, the good deals go fast. but be patient for the right car.. the inside of sellers garage speaks volumes.
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Yes, it only affects diesels.
A late model ( < 10 yrs old) Focus should be a good reliable commuter that you can get for a reasonable price.
ANY small 4 cyl. car will get way better fuel economy than the F150.
Don't get a PT Cruiser unless 20 mpg from a 2.4L is OK with you.
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:1:
And the Fiesta with the dual clutch trans. We have several in my family and all have had problems.
Yep, same transmission, same problem.
Otherwise both Focus and Fiesta are great cars.
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thanks OC
:thumb:
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This is a great thread... I vote for Yugo. If its still running it has to be tough.
Avoid any auto trans car... manual transmission only... (built in anti theft, very few kids can drive a stick).... pay that premium for the Honda, Toyota or Scooby Do, there is a reason they bring top dollar. I doubt you will be able to find a used Honda because everyone that has one keeps it.
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We've had a 2004 Acura TL since it was new. It has been a real good, reliable car and still starts and runs like new. Has 149,000 miles on it (mostly around town miles). Gets about 30 mpg highway. 3.2L, V-6 (normally-aspirated), automatic, front wheel drive, four-door, with lots of room inside and in the trunk. Very tight mechanicals - has never leaked any oil. The only problem we've had is that recently the DVD drive for the nav system, located in the trunk, has failed. I just checked Kelly Bluebook and the car was valued at about $5100 (private party sale). I suppose it will become our daughter's car when she goes to college next year. So, I'd give a thumbs-up vote for an Acura TL or similar model Honda (and maybe even more so for the latter, without the nice-to-have, but not necessary, "bells and whistles" of the Acura).
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Another thumbs up for Mazda 3 The wife has a hatchback that she is very happy with and actually so am I when I get to drive it. For an econobox it's really fun to drive and has plenty of pick up whether around town or at freeway speeds. Every time we go on a trip and get a Rent-A-Car we find that whatever we get compares poorly to her 3. Only negative I can think of is a bit less passenger legroom compared to some other cars in its class. Doesn't matter to us really.
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I have an 08 Honda Fit. Can't say enough good things about it. Tons of room, well equiped for the price( ac,cruise,power windows and locks). Just keeps going and going. Still on the original battery even! :boozing:
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I just picked up a used Toyota Yaris for my daughter to replace her VW Golf with a 180,000 miles on it. Nothing was wrong with the Golf yet but at the miles she had on it it was time for an up grade. The Yaris is a four door hatch back with an automatic and drives quite nicely and should be in your price range. It has a timing chain instead of a belt so you do not have that replacement cost down the road.
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I buy Subarus at about 100,000 miles, and run them to 250,000+. Purchase price is $3500 to $4500 and the first timing belt has already been replaced (about 80,000 miles). This leaves room in the budget for a clutch (about $900) and if necessary a brake job. Get a Legacy or Forester, not a WRX, and you can pretty much be assured that it never ran on testosterone.
Just to add to the above, a 2012 and up Impreza will have a timing chain that no longer needs replacement. I **think** the 2.5 engine in the Forester and Legacy got a chain in 2011, but I'm not certain. The 2.5 that continued on in the WRX was the old motor that used a timing belt until the 2015 WRX. (Just info, and as stated, I would not recommend a WRX either. Turbo, needs premium, go fast, higher insurance.) As for the Impreza, the base model will likely not have cruise control, but someone can add the factory switches in the steering wheel for under 100 bucks and it will be there. (That would be you doing the labor, rather than a shop.) The auto is actually a CVT. I'm not aware of any major issues with it. Been happy with mine and would not hesitate to get another one.
John Henry
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I had the same problem a few years ago. I had to make a 300 mile round trip every weekend in my F150. Been doing it for two years. After we did the math we figured out that I can drive that F150 a long way for the price of a new car. Cheaper to pay for the gas in the F150 then it is to pay for two vehicles and buy gas, insurance, up keep and plates for both of them. Plus in the summer time I can ride my bike. :bike-037:
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I had the same problem a few years ago. I had to make a 300 mile round trip every weekend in my F150. Been doing it for two years. After we did the math we figured out that I can drive that F150 a long way for the price of a new car. Cheaper to pay for the gas in the F150 then it is to pay for two vehicles and buy gas, insurance, up keep and plates for both of them. Plus in the summer time I can ride my bike. :bike-037:
That's a good way to calculate costs and decide what to do .... although it really bothers me to burn more gasoline that I need to for a given application. If it's close, I'll spend a bit more on capital expense to cut down my long-term operating expense.
Plus, disposing of an old car and buying a new one is a much bigger strain on Earth's resources than burning a few hundred extra gallons of gasoline.
Hmm ....
Lannis
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Plus, disposing of an old car and buying a new one is a much bigger strain on Earth's resources than burning a few hundred extra gallons of gasoline.
Well,
1. Is this true today? A heck of a lot gets recycled - the steel, the wiring, I think even the plastics.
and
2. Just because you trade or sell a working vehicle doesn't mean it gets disposed of. It usually gets sold to someone else who keeps it running which is the most efficient method of recycling.
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Is his F150 pickup truck paid for? will the car payment of the new car be more or less than his gas expenses? You can buy a lot of gas for a $300 car payment..
:1:
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Good cheap, economical fun car?
Buy a ten year old Mazda Miata.
It will be less than your $9000 budget and return MPGs in the 20s, while actually being fun to drive.
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Good cheap, economical fun car?
Buy a ten year old Mazda Miata.
It will be less than your $9000 budget and return MPGs in the 20s, while actually being fun to drive.
Another +1
There's some more wisdom there!
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Well,
1. Is this true today? A heck of a lot gets recycled - the steel, the wiring, I think even the plastics.
and
2. Just because you trade or sell a working vehicle doesn't mean it gets disposed of. It usually gets sold to someone else who keeps it running which is the most efficient method of recycling.
Recycling is definitely a mitigating factor. I don't know how much. It takes time and energy and chemicals to recycle things that don't have to be used if the car is still on the road. And the guy that buys your old car has an OLDER car that he's probably going to junk, unless someone buys THAT car and junks theirs. At any rate, someone's junking a car.
The biggest non-mitigating factor is what it takes to produce a NEW car .... and that's quite a bit that doesn't have to be mined, refined, etc if you're still driving the old one .....
Lannis
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Recycling is definitely a mitigating factor. I don't know how much. It takes time and energy and chemicals to recycle things that don't have to be used if the car is still on the road. And the guy that buys your old car has an OLDER car that he's probably going to junk, unless someone buys THAT car and junks theirs. At any rate, someone's junking a car.
The biggest non-mitigating factor is what it takes to produce a NEW car .... and that's quite a bit that doesn't have to be mined, refined, etc if you're still driving the old one .....
Lannis
I hear you but isn't that a pretty thin thread of logic. I.E. your buying a new car enables someone to junk an old one.
I mean, if the old one is that bad off it's gonna get junked either way.
And the new car companies are still going to be building them for others to buy.
Sure if global demand for new cars slowed so would production, but I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
And how about the environmental impact (since that's what we're discussing) of old cars. At some point they are polluting as bad as, well, as bad as BRAND NEW VW DISIELS! ( :evil: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: :evil:). And that's pretty bad. :boozing:
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I hear you but isn't that a pretty thin thread of logic. I.E. your buying a new car enables someone to junk an old one.
I mean, if the old one is that bad off it's gonna get junked either way.
That's the way we behave today because we have huge amounts of money and desire for new cars.
But if we decided we were going to make things last longer, and spend our money keeping them running right rather than trashing them and buying a new one, we wouldn't be mining and refining and pumping and melting quite as fast, which in many ways would be a good thing.
It's just the way I roll. As I've mentioned before, I put my money where my mouth is - two new cars in 40 years, I take care of them and the old ones with a goal of a quarter-million miles per car, and my household average fuel economy is over 40 MPG. I think the world would be a better place if everyone behaved like that, although I'm under no illusions that it will happen. But you only do what you can ....
Lannis
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That's the way we behave today because we have huge amounts of money and desire for new cars.
But if we decided we were going to make things last longer, and spend our money keeping them running right rather than trashing them and buying a new one, we wouldn't be mining and refining and pumping and melting quite as fast, which in many ways would be a good thing.
It's just the way I roll. As I've mentioned before, I put my money where my mouth is - two new cars in 40 years, I take care of them and the old ones with a goal of a quarter-million miles per car, and my household average fuel economy is over 40 MPG. I think the world would be a better place if everyone behaved like that, although I'm under no illusions that it will happen. But you only do what you can ....
Lannis
My debate is with the "we".
We as a society?
Not gonna happen. Some people will always have the money and desire for new cars.
Others are not, and by necessity WILL keep the old ones running as long as they can.
What happens in between is, well, in between. But I doubt there's a 1st world nation or a growing 2nd or 3rd that doesn't have similar groups and a desire for the new.
That doesn't mean that every old vehicle gets trashed every time a new one is bought. Though I guess some percentage must, or the number of operating cars in the world just grows exponentially.
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My debate is with the "we".
We as a society?
Not gonna happen. Some people will always have the money and desire for new cars.
Others are not, and by necessity WILL keep the old ones running as long as they can.
What happens in between is, well, in between. But I doubt there's a 1st world nation or a growing 2nd or 3rd that doesn't have similar groups and a desire for the new.
That doesn't mean that every old vehicle gets trashed every time a new one is bought. Though I guess some percentage must, or the number of operating cars in the world just grows exponentially.
I agree. Sometimes Agent Smith's monologue on humans and viruses sounds more true than not .....
Lannis
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I just picked up a used Toyota Yaris for my daughter to replace her VW Golf with a 180,000 miles on it. Nothing was wrong with the Golf yet but at the miles she had on it it was time for an up grade. The Yaris is a four door hatch back with an automatic and drives quite nicely and should be in your price range. It has a timing chain instead of a belt so you do not have that replacement cost down the road.
Another vote for a Yaris. 4 Years 65K miles and only routine maintenance. Mileage has been higher than claimed. Typically 35-40 mpg. Price new was 12K with 0% financing. Compare to used if you have to finance as rates for used tend to be much higher and you will get a warranty.
Pete
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Is his F150 pickup truck paid for? will the car payment of the new car be more or less than his gas expenses? You can buy a lot of gas for a $300 car payment..
+1
don't go home as often.
Have dad come visit you. :evil:
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I have an 08 Honda Fit. Can't say enough good things about it. Tons of room, well equiped for the price( ac,cruise,power windows and locks). Just keeps going and going. Still on the original battery even! :boozing:
:thumb:
Our manual-tranny '09 has almost 150K and is a C-130 of cars.
Might not have the payload of a F150, but it has an astonishingly large cargo capacity.
It's also been virtually flawless. Would leave out the "virtually," but seems we needed something minor during warranty, but can't recall details.
Only regret is buying base version, which tho it has many features -- e.g., AC, PS, PW, rear-window wiper and defroster, etc. -- does not have cruise control. This is our "slab car," and droning along at those speeds can get tiring with foot on pedal for hours.
On our monthly trips to Atlanta -- 1200+ miles r/t -- I routinely get 38 ("real," measured at pump) mpg; Kathi, 35. I'm saving my LEO discussions for Guzzi riding. :police:
Bill
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Let's see here.....
$9000 @ 3.00 a gallon = 3000 gallons of gas @ 10 miles/gallon = 30000 miles divided by 1000 miles per month = 30 months...Worse Case
pretty close to 3 years and I bet his F150 gets more than 10 miles/gallon.
Unless it's just a good excuse to get a new car...Nothing wrong with that!!
As a side note my wife drives 500 miles/week to get to and from work.....2012 Honda civic coupe 38-40 MPG 120k no problems
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I would avoid Nissan cars. Particularly Sentras, and specifically '07-'08. They got a lot bad rubber engine mounts and that wear out causing a number of secondary issues. The other issue I've discovered with Nissan is the aftermarket parts are outrageously high. About 2-3 times higher than the equivalent parts from Honda or Chrysler. With any used car, there will be maintenance. You might want to look at a few common parts and see what they cost relative to each other. The bigger the production run of any vehicle the more parts options will be available and hence a lower price. (I would imagine Mitsubishi parts are probably rather pricy and probably only available from the dealer).
Between Honda, Nissan and Toyota's economy cars I give the nod to Honda for it's maintainability. I've noticed this confounding thing Nissan and Toyota do where they put the engine in backwards. The intake is on the front of the engine and the exhaust is in the back. Which makes sense at first until you realize they have to run the intake manifold over the top of the engine. To do any work like replace a plug, coil, injector, adjust a valve, replace a leaking head gasket and you have to remove the intake manifold just to get to the engine. A royal effing pain that adds an hour or two to any job.
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Let's see here.....
$9000 @ 3.00 a gallon = 3000 gallons of gas @ 10 miles/gallon = 30000 miles divided by 1000 miles per month = 30 months...Worse Case
pretty close to 3 years and I bet his F150 gets more than 10 miles/gallon.
Unless it's just a good excuse to get a new car...Nothing wrong with that!!
As a side note my wife drives 500 miles/week to get to and from work.....2012 Honda civic coupe 38-40 MPG 120k no problems
I'd use numbers more like this:
$9000 used car / $2.00 per gallon gas = 4500 gallons of gas @ 14 miles per gallon = 63,000 miles / 1,500 miles per month = 42 months.
But that's not counting the fuel cost of the new car, which would make the "cost" of the car over the same time be much more. Lets says the economy car returns 28 mpg.
63,000 miles at 28 mpg is 2,250 gallons of gas. At our $2.00 per gallon, that's $4,500 on top of the $9,000 spent on the car. (Another $4,500 that could be spend on fuel for the truck!)
The cost to own the $9,000 28mpg car for 63,000 miles will be at least $13,500 when you add fuel.
Basically, it will take nearly a decade before buying the $9000.00 28 mpg car to save gas over the $0.00 14 mpg truck would actually save any money.
And either one would've been traded off by then, anyway.
If the pickup is in good order, and if it's paid for, I don't see the economics of buying a car to save money on gas...
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I'd use numbers more like this:
$9000 used car / $2.00 per gallon gas = 4500 gallons of gas @ 14 miles per gallon = 63,000 miles / 1,500 miles per month = 42 months.
But that's not counting the fuel cost of the new car, which would make the "cost" of the car over the same time be much more. Lets says the economy car returns 28 mpg.
63,000 miles at 28 mpg is 2,250 gallons of gas. At our $2.00 per gallon, that's $4,500 on top of the $9,000 spent on the car. (Another $4,500 that could be spend on fuel for the truck!)
The cost to own the $9,000 28mpg car for 63,000 miles will be at least $13,500 when you add fuel.
Basically, it will take nearly a decade before buying the $9000.00 28 mpg car to save gas over the $0.00 14 mpg truck would actually save any money.
And either one would've been traded off by then, anyway.
If the pickup is in good order, and if it's paid for, I don't see the economics of buying a car to save money on gas...
There are a few unknowns that make this calculation difficult. Is the $9000 budget for a new car including the sell price of the old pickup? Also, how old is the f-150? The repair costs of an older f-150 (although mine was remarkably reliable) could easily offset the lack of repairs of a newer more reliable compact. Particularly if the OP son isn't inclined to do the repairs himself. $4500 in repairs at a shop for an old pickup over a 63,000 mile timespan is not unheard of. I swear it takes an hour just to get the number 8 spark plug out.
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A tough call on a kid's car... Our two daughter's drove junkers just like the parents. :grin: I would fix the cars when they broke and the being girls they could get some help from male friends...But overall they got by no problem for a few years.
When one grand daughter started college her parents bout her a new Chevy Cruze. My son in law got some kind of deal and figured a new car should be better ...it's been a good car for three years...but almost all are...
Our oldest grand daughter drove junk, first car (about 6 years ago) was a early 90's Chevy Caviler ..it was surprising reliable for two years despite a complete lack of maintenance. It had hard miles and used some oil and she didn't check it..More often than not it was two and even three quarts low...Then she got a late 90 Cherokee and again it was reliable for a few years despite the being low on coolant and oil many times. So she gets married and they buy a used 2003 Ford Escape....Nice low mileage small SUV...in two years they burned up the engine. Apparently some engines don't tolerate low oil levels...
What am I trying to suggest? let the kid have a choice in the car to some extent, it's a good lesson learned...
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There are a few unknowns that make this calculation difficult.
Yeah. We don't know if the F150 is paid for, how old it is, or if it will be sold to help offset the price of the economy car.
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Hey Folks, What a compilation of excellent information here! Exactly what I was looking for! I learned a few things, that I will share with my son to help him in his search. Never had a clue about the fords with the dual clutch trannies, or the big buicks with 3.8L V6 being great cars, or the goofy looking Versas not being too good a choice.The Mazdas seem to be excellent, as well as the honda Fit. These tips will surely help us in our search, there is nothing like information like this from a group of like minded enthusiasts. Keep em coming!
Thanks,
Rick.
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I have a Chevy Sonic that I am quite happy with. Made in USA 35 MPG, I am 6'2" and it is comfortable. Used ones should be in the price range he wants.
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I'm liking my 2012 Versa. CVT trans yields 39 mpg on cheap gas. NOT a powerhouse. :grin: If it lasts like my other Nissan products have, I'm well served.
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Yeah. We don't know if the F150 is paid for, how old it is, or if it will be sold to help offset the price of the economy car.
My Sons Pickup is a 2012 Raptor. He plans to keep it, its paid for. He uses it mostly for recreation on weekends, scuba trips down into Mexico where they have to travel on some crazy roads to get to the water. It gets pretty bad gas mileage, but is one heck of a nice truck.
Rick.
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Ha ha, the Raptor isn't just a truck, it's a muscle car/truck with the worst mileage they make. So yeah, this makes sense.
Rated at 11/16, wouldn't surprise me if it easily got less. Plus maintenance costs are likely higher as well.
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For $9000, check out a used Mazda 3. I have had my bottom-of-the-line version* for 3 years, and it is perfectly boring, and perfectly reliable. I really like it.
*my motorcycle has cruise control and heated seats; my car doesn't. Go figure.
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:1:
And the Fiesta with the dual clutch trans. We have several in my family and all have had problems.
I recently rented a new Ford Fiesta SE w/dual clutch auto tranny and drove it 600 miles non-stop when my 750 Breva clutch blew :huh: It was like driving a sports car and got 36 mpg but the clutch felt odd like it was a belt drive tranny at times. Otherwise I was impressed w/the car. Why would an auto. tranny need a dual clutch? :rolleyes:
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Im really surprised someone has not come out with a comment about any of the Korean cars. In Arizona, I see a ton of Kia, Hyundai, etc. out on the road. They cant all be that bad, or are they?
Ive heard some people comment that they are at the quality level of Toyota/ Datsun back in the 70s-80s.
Rick.
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Im really surprised someone has not come out with a comment about any of the Korean cars. In Arizona, I see a ton of Kia, Hyundai, etc. out on the road. They cant all be that bad, or are they?
Ive heard some people comment that they are at the quality level of Toyota/ Datsun back in the 70s-80s.
Rick.
Never had a new one. I've had three Ford/Kia/Mazda "Festivas" from 1989 - 1993 and they're nice cars, built by Kia.
The ones I've rented have been good solid-feeling cars. But no real-world experience.
Fay put 200,000+ on a former Avis rental Buick 3.6L. Best-riding, nicest car we've ever owned. Totalled by a stupid woman in a parking lot.
Lannis
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Ha ha, the Raptor isn't just a truck, it's a muscle car/truck with the worst mileage they make. So yeah, this makes sense.
Rated at 11/16, wouldn't surprise me if it easily got less. Plus maintenance costs are likely higher as well.
He usually gets 12 MPG no matter how he drives it. One time I drove it on a 100 mile round trip of pure highway. I tried to drive it like an old lady, to get the best fuel economy, kept it at 65mph, on cruise control, had the tailgate open, etc. Best I could get was 17.
That beast is one thirsty truck!
Rick.
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Never had a new one. I've had three Ford/Kia/Mazda "Festivas" from 1989 - 1993 and they're nice cars, built by Kia.
The ones I've rented have been good solid-feeling cars. But no real-world experience.
Fay put 200,000+ on a former Avis rental Buick 3.6L. Best-riding, nicest car we've ever owned. Totalled by a stupid woman in a parking lot.
Lannis
I thought that era Festiva was a Daewoo (later bought up by Kia or Hyundai). At least that's what Jenn's 89 said on the under hood and door jamb badges.
It was cheap, but tough and reliable, and very efficient.
I've gotten the impression that Kia and Hyundai overall reliability has come WAY UP and are decent enough vehicles these days.
I absolutely don't believe the Toyota and Honda myths anymore.
All four companies make multi-hundred thousand mile vehicles, and all four make some lemons.
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Now that we know he's keeping his truck, that makes the story different.
Do you want to put the money in the fuel tank, or into a car ?
I'm still of the mind that spending $9,000 on a car to save a few thousand $$$ in gasoline over three years doesn't make purely economic sense.
But, I do know that some people really don't like giving money to oil companies. My dad, for instance, will drive across town to save a nickel a gallon. Even with the big 42-galllon tank on his Super Duty Ford, the difference is only $2.10 on a tank of fuel. And he'll burn that savings on the round-trip drive to the station. But it's his money, and his point to make, I guess.
To maximize savings, and fun, I'm still in the Mazda Miata camp. But, since he's holding the truck, I'd get an even older Miata. Something 15 years old for $4,000 to $5000. There are lots of garage-queen Miatas out there with low miles, which have spent their lives as 2nd and 3rd cars.
I bought my 1991 Miata with only 39,000 miles on the clock. It returned 24 mpg in town and 32 mpg on the highway. Combined was 26 - 28 mpg. And, it was fun. I prefer trucks, so for me, a car has to be fun. The car didn't have a lot of power, but it was a convertible that handled great, and returned decent fuel economy numbers for me. I sold it with 125,000 on the odometer, and I still see it on the road occasionally. Cam Belt, a window regulator, a brake job, and a Battery were my only maintenance in seven years and 86,000 miles.
(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-gnMsGdn/0/M/DSCN3908-M.jpg)
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my 2007 Hyundai Sonata has 175000 ish miles on it.
A tractor trailor hit my wife (35mph)and drug his front wheel lugs down the side of it...Think Ben Hur Chariot race.
It was totaled and I got it for 1800.00 and a salvage title..
She got a new Honda Civic.
That was 75000 miles ago and it's still running great.
I'll drive it till it drops!!
I don't have as many people parking near me on the left side of the car in parking lots anymore!!!! :bow:
I have had good luck with mine.
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Now that we know he's keeping his truck, that makes the story different.
Do you want to put the money in the fuel tank, or into a car ?
I'm still of the mind that spending $9,000 on a car to save a few thousand $$$ in gasoline over three years doesn't make purely economic sense.
It's not that simple a question.
It's a Raptor, so it's a specialty truck.
Maybe he wants to save IT for playtime and not commute time.
Maybe the ride is more harsh than he wants for commuting.
Maybe the parking is limited and tight, or in a crappy neighborhood.
Maybe he's looking at more than just gas expenses (wear/tear, tires, brakes, etc.).
But what does it matter, he's got a father to ask those questions of him.
His dad came here asking for info about brands and models, not the economics of buying a commuter car.
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His dad came here asking for info about brands and models, not the economics of buying a commuter car.
And I have offered my suggestion on a great car that would fill the bill...
...with just a little bit of sideways discussion about the economics of it.
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And I have offered my suggestion on a great car that would fill the bill...
...with just a little bit of sideways discussion about the economics of it.
No I know, and I'm the last guy to complain about a tangent, but that was last page. This page it was answered. I think it was the way you said in one sentence that now we know he's keeping his truck, but in the next asked the question again, do you want to put the money into the tank or car... Well, he answered that as did you in the first question... No biggie.
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No I know, and I'm the last guy to complain about a tangent, but that was last page. This page it was answered. I think it was the way you said in one sentence that now we know he's keeping his truck, but in the next asked the question again, do you want to put the money into the tank or car... Well, he answered that as did you in the first question... No biggie.
Yeah. He's saving his nice truck from the drudgery of the weekly commute. Nothing in the world wrong with that.
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It's not that simple a question.
It's a Raptor, so it's a specialty truck.
Maybe he wants to save IT for playtime and not commute time.
Maybe the ride is more harsh than he wants for commuting.
Maybe the parking is limited and tight, or in a crappy neighborhood.
Maybe he's looking at more than just gas expenses (wear/tear, tires, brakes, etc.).
But what does it matter, he's got a father to ask those questions of him.
His dad came here asking for info about brands and models, not the economics of buying a commuter car.
Alot of those things are true, Kev. He wants that truck to last him, its more of a toy, the car is going to be a workhorse /commuter.
Rick
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I'd go for fun too. The math against him - it just going to cost him a new Stelvio to save a running El Dorado in gas. Maybe a Honda S2000 or an early Audi TT. He might as well get laid in process.
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Miatas are a great value, but he needs something with a back seat, as sometimes, he needs to take his girlfriend, and her son along.
Rick.
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Now that we know he's keeping his truck, that makes the story different.
Do you want to put the money in the fuel tank, or into a car ?
I'm still of the mind that spending $9,000 on a car to save a few thousand $$$ in gasoline over three years doesn't make purely economic sense.
But, I do know that some people really don't like giving money to oil companies. My dad, for instance, will drive across town to save a nickel a gallon. Even with the big 42-galllon tank on his Super Duty Ford, the difference is only $2.10 on a tank of fuel. And he'll burn that savings on the round-trip drive to the station. But it's his money, and his point to make, I guess.
To maximize savings, and fun, I'm still in the Mazda Miata camp. But, since he's holding the truck, I'd get an even older Miata. Something 15 years old for $4,000 to $5000. There are lots of garage-queen Miatas out there with low miles, which have spent their lives as 2nd and 3rd cars.
I bought my 1991 Miata with only 39,000 miles on the clock. It returned 24 mpg in town and 32 mpg on the highway. Combined was 26 - 28 mpg. And, it was fun. I prefer trucks, so for me, a car has to be fun. The car didn't have a lot of power, but it was a convertible that handled great, and returned decent fuel economy numbers for me. I sold it with 125,000 on the odometer, and I still see it on the road occasionally. Cam Belt, a window regulator, a brake job, and a Battery were my only maintenance in seven years and 86,000 miles.
(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Miscellaneous-bike-photos/i-gnMsGdn/0/M/DSCN3908-M.jpg)
My cousin Mary and her husband Rick are part of the Miata Club up there. They live in Bela Vista. Don't know if you've crossed paths. Small world.
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I recently rented a new Ford Fiesta SE w/dual clutch auto tranny and drove it 600 miles non-stop when my 750 Breva clutch blew :huh: It was like driving a sports car and got 36 mpg but the clutch felt odd like it was a belt drive tranny at times. Otherwise I was impressed w/the car. Why would an auto. tranny need a dual clutch? :rolleyes:
Because it is not a true automatic. Actually a standard shift with two alternating gear stacks in the trans, hence the two clutches. So what you really have is an efficiently programmed and shifted manual trans that acts like an auto. They did this to pick up about 9% better mpg.
They may have done a final workable fix for the problem since this time last year. It's been a year since I have had any direct knowledge. But since the OP was talking used I believe it would apply.
FWIW, my wife drives an 07 Edge (loves it) and I just negotiated a deal on a 2010 Fusion for my 88 year old mom. I've not got a problem with FMC, just that particular transmission in the late model Focus/Fiesta.
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Because it is not a true automatic. Actually a standard shift with two alternating gear stacks in the trans, hence the two clutches. So what you really have is an efficiently programmed and shifted manual trans that acts like an auto. They did this to pick up about 9% better mpg.
They may have done a final workable fix for the problem since this time last year. It's been a year since I have had any direct knowledge. But since the OP was talking used I believe it would apply.
FWIW, my wife drives an 07 Edge (loves it) and I just negotiated a deal on a 2010 Fusion for my 88 year old mom. I've not got a problem with FMC, just that particular transmission in the late model Focus/Fiesta.
Maybe that's because it was a 6 speed? The funky shifting was just at certain times. I will say going up grades it had no issues. :thumb:
Anyone here driven a car with auto tranny w/belts yet?
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Anyone here driven a car with auto tranny w/belts yet?
Do you mean a CVT?
I've driven a couple, including the Juke I own.
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After reading the replies ,and it has been mentioned,what is the point of spending near 10 grand for an economy car when the "gas guzzler" truck won't be sold? How long is the payback between 12 MPG compared to 35 MPG? And the extra cost of insurance,license, required maintenance....It's not like a young man starting off needs two vehicles....unless one is a bike :wink:
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Come on guys, the boy needs a chick magnet, not a grocery hauler.
Rockers Miata would be cool but no back seat :evil:
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A Fiat 500 a couple years old will run like a top, get great mileage, maintenance is cheap, it's built and sold all over the world so parts are ubiquitous. The hatch is huge and swallows up far more than many larger cars or small SUV. Insurance and registration is cheap. Engine is built in Detroit, body is designed in Italy and it's put together in Mexico. I've had one for three years, bought it new, and it's been a great car.
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Come on guys, the boy needs a chick magnet, not a grocery hauler.
Rockers Miata would be cool but no back seat :evil:
Scion TC
A nice little "sports coupe" with decent economy and a back seat.
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/4/288/2521/38218760001_original.jpg)
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Scion TC
A nice little "sports coupe" with decent economy and a back seat.
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/4/288/2521/38218760001_original.jpg)
That ain't gonna get him laid... unless maybe he's into guys... :boozing:
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That ain't gonna get him laid... unless maybe he's into guys... :boozing:
It's a bit scary that you're so sure of that .... ? :azn: :laugh:
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It's a bit scary that you're so sure of that .... ? :azn: :laugh:
What's the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets - he plays a misogynist romance author (Melvin Udall):
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
:cool:
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What's the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets - he plays a misogynist romance author (Melvin Udall):
Quote
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
Whew! Good thing there's no women that ever look over WG posts! (I SAID, IT'S A GOOD THING THERE'S NO WOMEN READING THIS!) :laugh: :laugh:
Lannis
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Not many of the cars mentioned in this thread are going to get a young man much action.
It was noted that he had a girlfriend and needed to haul her and her kid sometimes.
I'd tell her to use her car and I'd get the Miata. But that's just me, and I swore off girlfriends with young kids years ago.
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Whew! Good thing there's no women that ever look over WG posts! (I SAID, IT'S A GOOD THING THERE'S NO WOMEN READING THIS!) :laugh: :laugh:
Lannis
I think our current ratio of members, men to women, is 35:1.
Man-Town, for sure...
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Since the "economics" have changed from saving money to - I need a car to put miles on, haul girlfriend and son occasionally, and if she doesn't work out still get laid.
He should steer clear of VW and Volvo as those are generally chick cars. As in driven by. (except the TDI)
I'm going to step out on a limp here and say a Jeep Wrangler or a convertible.
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Since the "economics" have changed from saving money to - I need a car to put miles on, haul girlfriend and son occasionally, and if she doesn't work out still get laid.
He should steer clear of VW and Volvo as those are generally chick cars. As in driven by. (except the TDI)
I'm going to step out on a limp here and say a Jeep Wrangler or a convertible.
I don't think he doesn't ALSO want to save on gas. I mean, if you throw out the economics of efficiency the $9k gets even worse.
I'm planning on buying Wrangler, but it's not a lot better than a Raptor on fuel consumption. That's a non-starter.
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I don't think he doesn't ALSO want to save on gas. I mean, if you throw out the economics of efficiency the $9k gets even worse.
I'm planning on buying Wrangler, but it's not a lot better than a Raptor on fuel consumption. That's a non-starter.
Don't take me so seriously. The whole thing is absurd. It's just going to cost him a piss load of money to appear to "save" some depreciation on his truck and "save" money on gas. Vehicles are depreciating assets. He ought to just drive his truck. After the commute period, his priorities will likely be changed anyways. His truck may not fit his needs anymore.
Drive the truck, save the money. And if everything is all the same in the end - he can always buy a NEW truck and will still have cash in the bank.
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Miatas are a great value, but he needs something with a back seat, as sometimes, he needs to take his girlfriend, and her son along.
Rick.
In light of this I think a bigger car will do better. I had a 2007 Ford Edge 2WD, best damn car I've ever owned. 26-27mpg on the road, 22-23 commuting in town. Does not like hills or stop and go traffic; that will eat the mileage down now (oddly enough, in the mountains of Colorado going from Denver to Telluride I got close to 30 - all those down hills I guess). It will reward a light foot and punish a heavy foot. Rides very well, Very roomy rear seat and a decent storage area in the back.
The 500 or Taurus or what ever their standard sedan is called today is also nice. Roomy, handles nice and if you get the SHO, a wolf in sheep clothing. The Flex rides VERY nice but suffers a bit in the mileage department.
For long commutes and a three person car (with junk) I'd spoil myself with a big bigger car. The Subaru Outback or Forester would be the smallest in my book, to consider. But I'm a tall long legged sort that squeezes into Fiesta's for rentals just fine, but for longer term ownership prefers bigger cars. :)
Bigger cars will also be easier to take on some weekends if you really want to keep the miles off of the Raptor.
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It's ABSURD I tell ya , ABSURD
Dusty
yep.
I'm going out of the box, how about a w/t tacoma with camper shell late 2000's. Decent mileage with the 4 cyl and 5 speed, plus you could haul a bike or take a long road trip and crash out back. If you can shift good, you can pass cars on the freeway :grin:
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Don't take me so seriously. The whole thing is absurd. It's just going to cost him a piss load of money to appear to "save" some depreciation on his truck and "save" money on gas. Vehicles are depreciating assets. He ought to just drive his truck. After the commute period, his priorities will likely be changed anyways. His truck may not fit his needs anymore.
Drive the truck, save the money. And if everything is all the same in the end - he can always buy a NEW truck and will still have cash in the bank.
Yeah. The mentioned 250-300 mile round trip that has to be made 3 or 4 times per month is only 1,000 miles per month. The three year period mentioned means the commute to his hospital job will only add 36,000 miles to the odometer on his truck over whatever recreational miles he puts on it during that time.
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Don't take me so seriously. The whole thing is absurd. It's just going to cost him a piss load of money to appear to "save" some depreciation on his truck and "save" money on gas. Vehicles are depreciating assets. He ought to just drive his truck. After the commute period, his priorities will likely be changed anyways. His truck may not fit his needs anymore.
Drive the truck, save the money. And if everything is all the same in the end - he can always buy a NEW truck and will still have cash in the bank.
It's absurd for me to have 3 motorcycles, a small turbo AWD SUV, and a mid-size luxury SUV... but I LIKE IT.
I don't see him wanting a beater in addition to his muscle truck as an issue.
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Uh , what was the original question ?
Dusty
Being that is a Guzzi forum, the original question, inferred that a young man wanted buy a economical car to commute with in order to save money on gas. However, being the master cheep asses that we are, we saw right through this charade of fiscal responsibility. There are only two economic decisions in life: sex and money. We know the real economy he is after and have now resorted to answering the underlying question. (Which is the question we all wanted to answer in the first place). What car should I buy that can I still get laid in, that could be "justified" as a "need." I'm voting for a Honda S2000 - you can only save up money for old age.
Kevm - Don't take me seriously!
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Being that is a Guzzi forum, the original question, inferred that a young man wanted buy a economical car to commute with in order to save money on gas. However, being the master cheep asses that we are, we saw right through this charade of fiscal responsibility. There are only two economic decisions in life: sex and money. We know the real economy he is after and have now resorted to answering the underlying question. (Which is the question we all wanted to answer in the first place). What car should I buy that can I still get laid in, that could be "justified" as a "need." I'm voting for a Honda S2000 - you can only save up money for old age.
Kevm - Don't take me seriously!
Uh , back in the day all I needed was a bicycle to accomplish that feat :grin: Besides , would take a contortionist to , well , you know, in an S2000 :laugh:
To paraphrase Freud , sometimes a question is just a question .
Dusty
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Uh , back in the day all I needed was a bicycle to accomplish that feat :grin: Besides , would take a contortionist to , well , you know, in an S2000 :laugh:
To paraphrase Freud , sometimes a question is just a question .
Dusty
An S2000, or a Miata for matter, is just foreplay. Bring a blanket.
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That ain't gonna get him laid... unless maybe he's into guys... :boozing:
HHaHa, Thats funny! You guys are a hoot! My Son is 31 years old, as far as getting "laid" he already has the perfect vehicle to attract the babes. He has a Silver 2007 Z 06 Corvette. This vette is the "garage Queen" but he will be driving that, until he finds a commuter. He hates racking up the miles in the vette, though.
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So Far the cars that he favors are the scion TC, and a Mazda Three, 4 door hatchback , but those are hard to find at a decent price and low miles.It seems CL in Arizona is full of salvage title cars!
Rick.
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Wait a Vette and a Raptor? He's not gonna be happy slumming it in a $9k anything.
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He has a Silver 2007 Z 06 Corvette. This vette is the "garage Queen". He hates racking up the miles in the vette, though.
He'll get over that in time. I had that problem with one. The other.... 12,000 miles in 7 months on the road. :thumb:
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My wife just rolled over 13k miles on her 2015 Ford C-Max. Computer says 43mpg total fuel mpg. Nice car. As with any new design, the first couple years had pretty low Consumer Reports ratings. I think by 2015, they're pretty good. Lots of room. Surprising acceleration. Seems good. (She traded in her '98 Avalon w/223k miles, one owner.)
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My vote is for driving the Vette. It's not like its some appreciating asset like a Delahaye or 250 California. It can take it, and will return decent mileage too!
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I think our OP has been playing us a little bit.
What the kid is really looking for is a fuel efficient family car.
I'm changing my vote to Prius. It should haul the girlfriend and kid, and commute very efficiently.
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So Far the cars that he favors are the scion TC, and a Mazda Three, 4 door hatchback , but those are hard to find at a decent price and low miles.It seems CL in Arizona is full of salvage title cars!
Rick.
My 2012 Mazda3 is worth about $9k. I've got 88k on it have replace the plugs, tires and filters above regular oil changes. The computer says I get 35mph with a 42mph average speed using 87 octane ($1.64/gal here).
Not bad...
Mazda 3 Hatchback is a fantastic option. Room in the back, amazing sport handling and ride. I bought one Yesterday, in fact. 30k on the ODO. same color as my guzzi and it will be trailered by it. I owned a TC and loved it as well. I enjoy a small car that rides like it's on rails. You don't need a couple hundred horsepower to go plenty fast and get in plenty of trouble.