Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: El Pescador on September 26, 2015, 05:08:02 PM
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My wife got her motorcycle license in May of last year after taking the BRC. As a present, I bought her a new V7 special. She put around 50 miles puttering around the neighborhood before she dropped it at the end of our driveway, putting a nice ding in the tank. She hasn't been on it in a year, but she's ready to give it another go in a local parking lot.
We would like to put as much protection on it as possible, since we would obviously like to avoid any more damage.
Other than an engine guard (recommendation on the best performing appreciated), what other parts can we add to keep it beginner resistant?
If this is a hopeless task and a beater is the best option, that is a distant second.
Your help is appreciated.
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There might have been something about the driveway that caused the spill. It is true that many drops happen right in driveways. They are usually sloped, their is a tight turn into and out of them and often there is a car or something else in the driveway too. All that contributes to the spills.
Put some inexpensive side bags on it, that can help keep the rear end of things clean. Bar end spongies can help with a tip over as can cheapo plastic mirrors. The engine guards you have already thought of.
Unless you were going to repaint the tank and unless you want it pretty, do a linex on it. They make it in colors and in some parts it is a new rage for urban bike looks. Makes it ding and dent proof cause they can be pulled easily and resprayed to look fresh.
A different look but they have a nice flat back and there are more and more bikes running around that way.
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I have a daughter who recently got her motorcycle license. Knowing that she's small and light, I got her a somewhat dinged Kawasaki Ninja 250 that's 10 years old. It's not much over 300 lbs, and quite low at the seat, and cost me $1,100. She's glad it's not a new, perfect bike, and it lets her relax and not be overly worried about damaging it. So far, the only mishap is that she dropped it while stopped on a sloped grass shoulder, and we just picked it up and continued on our way with no negative emotions expressed.
Every situation is different, and I certainly don't know your wife, but something similar to gain experience on might make riding more pleasant for her, and when she's ready for the new bike, you could sell the "practice bike" and probably get most or all of your money back. The Ninja 250, by the way, handles great, has plenty of power to go highway speeds, and is smooth and quiet in its stock form. The seating position is definitely not aggressive, and my daughter has no trouble riding 100 miles at a time with me.
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Are you looking for a real answer ?
Dusty
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Are you looking for a real answer ?
Dusty
Thank you
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Are you looking for a real answer ?
Dusty
I don't know exactly what that implies, but your input is welcome as long as it is respectful.
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I don't know exactly what that implies, but your input is welcome as long as it is respectful.
Respectful yes , because motorbikes are my life .
If it took your lovely wife a year to approach a motorcycle after a driveway tipover , that is more of an issue than how much protection the bike needs . Addressing this is the more important problem .
So... how do we handle this . well , a beater dirtbike and hours riding in the dirt until your wife attains some level of skill and confidence . No traffic , reduced chances of causing her or the bike harm , and skills learned in the dirt are invaluable .
Dusty
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Respectful yes , because motorbikes are my life .
If it took your lovely wife a year to approach a motorcycle after a driveway tipover , that is more of an issue than how much protection the bike needs . Addressing this is the more important problem .
So... how do we handle this . well , a beater dirtbike and hours riding in the dirt until your wife attains some level of skill and confidence . No traffic , reduced chances of causing her or the bike harm , and skills learned in the dirt are invaluable .
Dusty
That was very respectful thank you. I shouldn't minimize her crash. Our driveway is a good long slope and she hit the ground really hard. It was more than just a tip over. It was a bonified crash. I've thought about a dirt bike and have her ride it until she's more comfortable, but she has zero interest in riding in the dirt so that's a no go.
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Dusty is getting to the heart of the issue, but for bike protection, I strongly recommend these:
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=60959
For wife protection, perhaps an Aerostich suit:
http://www.aerostich.com/jackets-pants
Good Luck!
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Inexpensive side bags, engine guard, and go ride...parts are readily available, tanks, handlebars, mirrors, turn signals. Even with a tip over, it will be ok...
I hope she does well and is comfortable on it. You might want to be sure she can stand flat footed with it, so it's not too tall for her.
I don't have a specific recommendation for an engine guard, quite a few to choose from, I like the look of the ones MG cycles has on occasion. I'm not sure who makes them.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=172_180&products_id=4565
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That was very respectful thank you. I shouldn't minimize her crash. Our driveway is a good long slope and she hit the ground really hard. It was more than just a tip over. It was a bonified crash. I've thought about a dirt bike and have her ride it until she's more comfortable, but she has zero interest in riding in the dirt so that's a no go.
Has she ever ridden in the dirt ? Most of the fastest racers in the world train in the dirt , greatest learning tool available . Sorry that her crash was fairly serious , and a crash early on in the developmental stages can be hard to overcome . More than one budding rider has stopped after an incident , and we don't want that to happen here . Once again , skill and confidence are the key here , no better way to gain both of those than a few days in the dirt . We are pulling for her .
Dusty
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I can also vouch for the protection offered by some well stuffed, decent sized soft saddlebags - saved a couple of my bikes from any mid or rear damage. The bigger the better! Best of luck to you both.
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You can't really consider yourself to be a motorcyclist until you've dropped bikes a few times. I have Hepco & Becker side cases and a crash bar on my V7 Stone. The hard side cases really do protect. On the several drops I had while (re)learning how to ride, there's been very little damage to the bike (a couple of clutch levers, a mirror, and a brake lever stop bolt), and only a bruise and a sprain to myself. Lessons learned. Knock wood, no drops in the last 10,000 mi.
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If she's having trouble handling the V7, I recommend getting her a well used 250 Honda Nighthawk, or similiar, that can be bought for $1500 or less, and serve as a "throw away bike" for her to learn the basics on.
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I second the cheap side cases and engine guard. I'd try and find some actual crash bars for up front. Both of those items kept me from dinging up my first bike. When it fell over nothing would get hurt on it and I'd keep riding.
Depending on what can hit when it falls over you might get spare clutch, hand brake, foot brake and shift levers.
My T5 is black because after the second time it dropped I figured what the heck. Pulled out the dents in the tank and sprayed it with flat black rustoleum.
PS I agree that the wife side of this is more important. The bike is secondary.
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Can she flatfoot the Guzzi. If not perhaps lower seat might make her feel more in control.
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Just my opinion, and that's not worth much I know <SHRUG>
But NOT learning to ride small motorcycles on loose uneven ground before street riding is like starting to play a musical instrument without an understanding of notes.
My dirt bike riding skills are used every time I throw a leg over. I'm glad I had the opportunity to learn in the dirt. I know it's saved my ass MANY times!
Thank you JC Penney and Briggs and Stratton! :laugh:
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No one needs to fall in a motorcycle mishap to be a motorcyclist, like saying you need to get in a car accident to be called a driver. The only people saying that are the ones who dropped or fell, plenty never have and probably never will. Its one of cliches that just gets repeated.
OP said his wife doesn't want to ride in the dirt so that is out. Dirt riding doesn't make anyone a better rider anyway and falling in the dirt isn't any less dangerous unless you have perfect loam and a perfect jump off strategy.
The wife fell but so long as she is able and has the desire to continue to ride, get her into one of the rider education and skill builder courses. They work and will take her from start to finish.
The rider education and skill builder courses also provide the bikes and she doesn't have to worry about damaging them so that takes care of the uparmor problem in the immediate future. She'll learn the right way from people who teach the skills all the time and sometimes having a non related person do the teaching is better anyway.
A few bucks to make sure she has the good riding gear and then the small expense of the education and skill builder course will do far more than making a tank for her to ride or getting some other bike, it will be provided.
Then let her take it at her own pace. Sure, do the engine guards and such to help protect the machine but the more stuff you hang onto and off of it, the less of basic bike it becomes.
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Uh , go right on believing training in the dirt isn't safer and a great way to develop skills there NP .
Dusty
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Dirt riding doesn't make anyone a better rider...
quoted for posterity. You do not hold the majority opinion on that one, that's for sure. That's for dang sure... :shocked:
(http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/attachments/general-sportbikes/127186d1182554906-ohhh-ducati-hyper-motard-rubenhyper.jpg)
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Uh , go right on believing training in the dirt isn't safer and a great way to develop skills there NP .
Dusty
Yeah , if we believe Kenny Roberts , Colin Edwards , Nicky Hayden , Marc Marquez , Barry Sheene , Freddy Spencer , Eddie Lawson , Ken Maely , Dick Mann , and our own KRGlorioso , training in the dirt is one hell of a good way to develop motorcycle riding skills .
Dusty
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Yeah , if we believe Kenny Roberts , Colin Edwards , Nicky Hayden , Marc Marquez , Barry Sheene , Freddy Spencer , Eddie Lawson , Ken Maely , Dick Mann , and our own KRGlorioso , training in the dirt is one hell of a good way to develop motorcycle riding skills .
Dusty
I also developed a lot of broken bones and 7 months in hospital. But thanks, Dusty, for my 15 seconds of fame!
Ralph
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I also developed a lot of broken bones and 7 months in hospital. But thanks, Dusty, for my 15 seconds of fame!
Ralph
Ralph , pretty sure that you are the only member of WG who was written about in the MC press because of abilities on on a
race bike :bow:
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Hmm, I don't exactly what to say.....But my opinion is new riders who drop bikes in low speed maneuvers need a lot of practice or maybe they are not the person who should be riding...
How does the person drive a car? Are they a smooth in traffic and able to thread their way through without hesitation? Not afraid to use a bit of speed in the turns? If not, they may never have the confidence to handle a bike safely.
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No one needs to fall in a motorcycle mishap to be a motorcyclist, like saying you need to get in a car accident to be called a driver. The only people saying that are the ones who dropped or fell, plenty never have and probably never will. Its one of cliches that just gets repeated.
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Well, OK, there is a group of motorcyclists who never drop their bikes, the ones who never ride them. Nice and safe in the garage.
And maybe one more group, those with poor memories.
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While sliding a bike in the dirt definitely helps get one used to the inevitable low traction situation, if she had something like a used Yamaha XT 250 (low seat, weight, power, and cost), she could ride it around on the street or nice easy trails and develop the muscle memory for clutch/brake/throttle/shifting duties. I have noticed novice drops happen a lot due to over or under doing one or two of the fore mentioned controls.
If she is good with the whole two wheel thing (think much bicycle experience) and the clutch work is a daunting factor, her enjoyment may be higher on a scooter. Since everyone is different and situations are different, I can't be 100 percent sure but does sound like taking a year to get back on the horse is a confidence issue and another dump on the V7 could end her MC desires forever, despite how well she and it are protected.
Good luck to both of you.
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Well, OK, there is a group of motorcyclists who never drop their bikes, the ones who never ride them. Nice and safe in the garage.
And maybe one more group, those with poor memories.
Dropping a bike during a low speed maneuver is a lot different than when riding off road or hitting a bad spot on the road while at speed...
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Well, OK, there is a group of motorcyclists who never drop their bikes, the ones who never ride them. Nice and safe in the garage.
And maybe one more group, those with poor memories.
Trying very hard to stay out of this one (although, for the record, I'm with Dusty on the dirt bike training). But I take issue with this "never dropped a bike, never rode it" thing. I've been riding for over 50 years, both street and dirt. Perhaps closing in on a million miles. Sure, I've dropped dirt bikes more times than I can count. Playing in the mud is part of the fun. But I've never dropped a street bike in all that time. I average around 30,000 km a year on roads, in town, touring, commuting, you name it. I have lots of friends with lots of similar experience, dirt and street, most of whom have never crashed a bike on the street. Hell, I've been rear-ended twice at stop lights on city streets and not dropped the bike.
I'd rephrase that as "those who've never dropped their bikes, and those who've had insufficient training and practice, starting with small low-powered light-weight bikes, and working up gradually as they get better". In my mind, there's really not much excuse for just "dropping" a motorcycle on the road, other than perhaps getting hit by another vehicle out of the blue.
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Trying very hard to stay out of this one (although, for the record, I'm with Dusty on the dirt bike training). But I take issue with this "never dropped a bike, never rode it" thing. I've been riding for over 50 years, both street and dirt. Perhaps closing in on a million miles. Sure, I've dropped dirt bikes more times than I can count. Playing in the mud is part of the fun. But I've never dropped a street bike in all that time. I average around 30,000 km a year on roads, in town, touring, commuting, you name it. I have lots of friends with lots of similar experience, dirt and street, most of whom have never crashed a bike on the street. Hell, I've been rear-ended twice at stop lights on city streets and not dropped the bike.
I'd rephrase that as "those who've never dropped their bikes, and those who've had insufficient training and practice, starting with small low-powered light-weight bikes, and working up gradually as they get better". In my mind, there's really not much excuse for just "dropping" a motorcycle on the road, other than perhaps getting hit by another vehicle out of the blue.
Simply no way to explain the dirt factor better :bow:
Dusty
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My RX for this situation. Smaller (lower to the ground) light beater bike like a Honda Rebel, Buell blast, or Kawi. Repeat MSF course. Practice, practice, practice. Short rides in controlled environments(ie. not to technical with minimal traffic). But before any of this, a good honest heart to heart is she doing this because she really wants to ride or is it more because you want her to ride???
My 2 cents.
gian4
PS I agree with Dusty about dirt riding but if she won't then my above suggestion from my experience should work for her if she really wants to learn and really enjoys riding.
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My RX for this situation. Smaller (lower to the ground) light beater bike like a Honda Rebel, Buell blast, or Kawi. Repeat MSF course. Practice, practice, practice. Short rides in controlled environments(ie. not to technical with minimal traffic). But before any of this, a good honest heart to heart is she doing this because she really wants to ride or is it more because you want her to ride???
My 2 cents.
gian4
PS I agree with Dusty about dirt riding but if she won't then my above suggestion from my experience should work for her if she really wants to learn and really enjoys riding.
Yes , dirt experience isn't the only way , just the easiest and quickest .
The real purpose of this thread is to help El Pescador's wife become a confident competent MC rider , if she really desires .
Dusty
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Respectful yes , because motorbikes are my life .
If it took your lovely wife a year to approach a motorcycle after a driveway tipover , that is more of an issue than how much protection the bike needs . Addressing this is the more important problem .
So... how do we handle this . well , a beater dirtbike and hours riding in the dirt until your wife attains some level of skill and confidence . No traffic , reduced chances of causing her or the bike harm , and skills learned in the dirt are invaluable .
Dusty
Dusty has it right. And that's how they do it in Europe, many hours to get used to riding on small bikes, then traffic etc. Then bigger bikes. Jurgen
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I guess I should've added that even after 50 years of riding, I still take instruction every couple of years. Occasionally on a track, but most often at a dirk bike school. It still helps. I never assume that I know everything, or that it's too late to learn new stuff. I find it invaluable to have a competent teacher observe me, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Even if you never ride dirt bikes for fun, learning how a bike slides, front wheel as well as rear, and how to recover from that, does wonders for your riding skills. Practise sliding around enough and it becomes second nature so that you react instinctively when you hit that small unexpected patch of gravel or sand in a corner on a paved road, or an unexpected obstacle like something fallen on the road.
I have no idea of the actual circumstances the OP's wife's get-off in the driveway, but I wonder if she just slid a wheel and didn't know how to react, other than to grab a handful of brake. Despite her apparent lack of interest in dirt bike riding, I might suggest trying another approach. Rather than simply "get a dirt bike and have her ride it until she's comfortable", perhaps try a family outing to a good school, with both partners taking the same training. Ya just never know, maybe both will learn something new :wink:
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But before any of this, a good honest heart to heart is she doing this because she really wants to ride or is it more because you want her to ride?
This may be the most important suggestion so far.
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There is no substitute for knowing and having control of your machine, I think we will all agree. There is no faster way of learning the controls than practice, practice, practice. I'd rather see my friends and family practice in a field or on a trail than on pavement with moving cars. Just makes sense.
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My opinion is practice for street riding needs to be done on pavement... How many here can slam on the front brake and hold the fine line between locking up and maximum braking traction from 75 mph?? Do you practice this often because it can and will save your life. How about avoidance maneuvers and counter steering ? How how recovery when you go into a corner and the back wheel steps sharply out on loose stone? Got time to grab the throttle and spin the rear tire on a 550 pound street bike so it doesn't high side?
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I second the recommendations to:
(1) Re-take the MSF basic course. They might even offer a shortened "Intro" course that focuses on control foundations (friction zone, smooth application of brakes & throttle, etc).
(2) Grab a used Rebel, Nighthawk, TW200, XT225, or other standard or dirt bike in the 200cc range. They are very forgiving of being dropped. We use primarily Rebels and Nighthawks at our training facility and they are quite durable.
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My opinion is practice for street riding needs to be done on pavement... How many here can slam on the front brake and hold the fine line between locking up and maximum braking traction from 75 mph?? Do you practice this often because it can and will save your life. How about avoidance maneuvers and counter steering ? How how recovery when you go into a corner and the back wheel steps sharply out on loose stone? Got time to grab the throttle and spin the rear tire on a 550 pound street bike so it doesn't high side?
Sigh :grin: All of those skills are best developed in the dirt , once again , there is a reason why almost every fast pavement racer trains in the dirt .
Dusty
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http://www.americansupercamp.com/
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http://www.americansupercamp.com/
You really think those guys know shit from shinola? :laugh:
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Well, OK, there is a group of motorcyclists who never drop their bikes, the ones who never ride them. Nice and safe in the garage.
And maybe one more group, those with poor memories.
There is more than a group, there are many. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean no one else can. There is always the group who says it is just a matter of when, not if. A defeatist attitude and maybe the refusal to admit that there are much better riders than yourself.
I've fallen because of a collision but would not say it will happen to every rider because it doesn't have to and it won't.
The OPs wife fell. It wasn't and isn't a rite if passage and he should be commended for trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. Just because she's fallen once doesn't mean it has to happen again.
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There is more than a group, there are many. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean no one else can. There is always the group who says it is just a matter of when, not if. A defeatist attitude and maybe the refusal to admit that there are much better riders than yourself.
I've fallen because of a collision but would not say it will happen to every rider because it doesn't have to and it won't.
The OPs wife fell. It wasn't and isn't a rite if passage and he should be commended for trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. Just because she's fallen once doesn't mean it has to happen again.
Sigh . Anyone who thinks it can't happen to them because they are such a superior rider is fooling themselves .
Dusty
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Sigh . Anyone who thinks it can't happen to them because they are such a superior rider is fooling themselves .
Dusty
Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.
Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.
Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.
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Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.
Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.
Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.
I forget you California boys have special powers :rolleyes: Actually I don't fall over , and in 400K miles haven't had an accident , but am willing to concede that you are a superior rider .
However , seriously doubt if you are better than Dane Westby or my buddy Steve Martin who was a several times local MX champion , and they both "tipped over" .
Dusty
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Just like anyone who thinks because it happened to them it must happen to everyone else. If you are just falling off your bike or just dropping it without someone hitting you or causing you to fall, then it is you that are at fault and no, it doesn't happen to every one, just the ones that got careless or need better riding skills.
Plenty of people ride motorcycles and don't fall or drop them, maybe they know something you don't.
Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.
I sincerely hope you never ever drop it. However, your physics is wrong. Motorcycles DO fall over all by themselves. In fact, the rider has to constantly, ACTIVELY do something to prevent the bike from falling over, particularly at low speed. It's great that you were apparently born with great riding skills. Me, not so much. I was a klutz when I began riding, at age 71 (no excuse). I haven't dropped my bike in the last 12,000 miles or so, but during the first few thousand, yes, I did go down a few times. I'm glad my bike had a crash bar and hard-sided luggage. Perhaps the OP's wife also is in the learning curve, and her bike can use the "armor" he asked about.
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I sincerely hope you never ever drop it. However, your physics is wrong. Motorcycles DO fall over all by themselves. In fact, the rider has to constantly, ACTIVELY do something to prevent the bike from falling over, particularly at low speed. It's great that you were apparently born with great riding skills. Me, not so much. I was a klutz when I began riding, at age 71 (no excuse). I haven't dropped my bike in the last 12,000 miles or so, but during the first few thousand, yes, I did go down a few times. I'm glad my bike had a crash bar and hard-sided luggage. Perhaps the OP's wife also is in the learning curve, and her bike can use the "armor" he asked about.
Sib , "When I began riding , at age 71" . That is so cool :bow:
Dusty
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Reminds me when I tried to learn to ski at 38. My then girl friend (who was a great skier) wanted me to start out on the bunny slope then jump to the greens and blues. My first day I spent a lot time picking myself up after falls that I had no idea was coming! Lucky the snow wasn't hard packed and I learned a lot in those 3 days, but had MANY falls.
I learned bikes on the dirt mostly, the bikes are lighter, tires are better for the terrain, plus you can go anywhere almost. Well, don't have to stay in a little lane or watch out for cars/trucks/dog/lights! You can practice starting and stopping in a field of pretty small size.
My wife decided to start riding to my surprise and took the MSF, dropped their bike several times over 3 days, mostly the panic stop procedure. She still has some trouble with sudden quick stops.
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Sigh :grin: All of those skills are best developed in the dirt , once again , there is a reason why almost every fast pavement racer trains in the dirt .
Dusty
They start in dirt because it's the most convenient racing. And there's no age limit so to speak......
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They start in dirt because it's the most convenient racing. And there's no age limit so to speak......
OK , so why do the continue training in the dirt after becoming champions ?
Dusty
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I forget you California boys have special powers :rolleyes: Actually I don't fall over , and in 400K miles haven't had an accident , but am willing to concede that you are a superior rider .
However , seriously doubt if you are better than Dane Westby or my buddy Steve Martin who was a several times local MX champion , and they both "tipped over" .
Dusty
For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?
The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.
Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.
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(http://www.clintarcher.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/train-derail.jpg)
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For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?
The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.
Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.
When did I say everyone must fall , or that I am immune . You are the one who is claiming superior skills and just can't possibly fall down :huh: I was merely using examples of very talented riders that have fallen , if you are a better rider than these boys , well , great . Look , the issue at hand isn't whether or not it can happen , but how to deal with the after effects and how to minimize the chances of it occurring again , not what fabulous MC riders you or I are, and some time in the dirt is very beneficial , whether you agree or not .
Dusty
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Ummmm ..... think you have lost your OP. But dirt riding is an interesting topic/
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Don't want a big debate. So here's my two cents.
Listen to Dusty. He's got a lot of experience and is a straight shooter.
Consider what one of the earlier posters said. Get her a cheap, used, beat up Kawasaki Ninja 250. These are dirt cheap, and absolutely unbelievable terrific bikes. The best value for your motorcycle dollar. Heck, after my V7 Stone, my 2012 two fiddy is about my all time favorite bike, and I've been riding 35 years on I don't know how many bikes.
She can surely flat foot the 250. No tears if she drops a $1500 250 multiple times. And she can play on dirt, fire trails, etc
And that freaking 250 will teach her things no other bike will, provided she listens. Again, I've been around the block, but I *still* learn useful stuff riding my two-fiddy.
And yes. A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere. I routinely take mine into Dallas high speed traffic at 80 mph+. I've taken 1,500 mile road trips on it, and would do it again tomorrow. The secret is to not care that you are revving it all the time. It likes that! Spend hours and hours on interstate at 10,000 rpm and you will gain a new perspective about engines. And don't listen to anyone who bad mouths a Ninja 250. The truly knowledgabe motorcyclist will "get" and respect a 250. The others? Don't worry about what they think.
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For crying out loud, you've ridden 400k miles without falling but everyone else must fall?
The point was that not everyone has to fall, there is no rites of passage that falling makes you a motorcyclist. Many people can and do ride their entire lives that involve motorcycles and do jot fall and it has nothing to do with California, it has to do with having the skills not to fall outside of something beyond your control. Falling because you didn't do something right means it was preventable.
Not everyone falls. Must be hard to comprehend I know.
Have to step in and side with Norge Pilot here, this is not something that is unique to California. You can look in my signature line and bet that I see my share of falls almost every weekend. Dirt riding is great if you have the opportunity, but not everyone has. Having said that........nothing .....nothing beats a true desire to become one with your machine.
Tim
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And yes. A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere.
When I first got the little Ninja insured and licensed, I took it for out for about 30 or 40 miles. When I got home, I said that if it were the only motorcycle I could own for the rest of my life, I'd still be very happy riding. I bought it for my daughter to ride, and I've put twice as many miles on it as she has.
One neat feature is that 1st gear is so low that you can idle it in 1st and a person can walk beside you!
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Have to step in and side with Norge Pilot here, this is not something that is unique to California. You can look in my signature line and bet that I see my share of falls almost every weekend. Dirt riding is great if you have the opportunity, but not everyone has. Having said that........nothing .....nothing beats a true desire to become one with your machine.
Tim
The California comment was meant to be humorous :laugh: Maybe :evil: So , how are you differing from the advice most have given so far ?
Don't want a big debate. So here's my two cents.
Listen to Dusty. He's got a lot of experience and is a straight shooter.
Consider what one of the earlier posters said. Get her a cheap, used, beat up Kawasaki Ninja 250. These are dirt cheap, and absolutely unbelievable terrific bikes. The best value for your motorcycle dollar. Heck, after my V7 Stone, my 2012 two fiddy is about my all time favorite bike, and I've been riding 35 years on I don't know how many bikes.
She can surely flat foot the 250. No tears if she drops a $1500 250 multiple times. And she can play on dirt, fire trails, etc
And that freaking 250 will teach her things no other bike will, provided she listens. Again, I've been around the block, but I *still* learn useful stuff riding my two-fiddy.
And yes. A Ninja 250 will do anything and go anywhere. I routinely take mine into Dallas high speed traffic at 80 mph+. I've taken 1,500 mile road trips on it, and would do it again tomorrow. The secret is to not care that you are revving it all the time. It likes that! Spend hours and hours on interstate at 10,000 rpm and you will gain a new perspective about engines. And don't listen to anyone who bad mouths a Ninja 250. The truly knowledgabe motorcyclist will "get" and respect a 250. The others? Don't worry about what they think.
Aww hell , now I am blushing :laugh: This isn't about me , none of what I've said is all that original , just collected wisdom from a lifetime of MCling and listening to riders much more knowledgeable than me . Agree , when it comes to learning street skills , hard to beat a 250 Ninja or similar bikes .
Ummmm ..... think you have lost your OP. But dirt riding is an interesting topic/
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah , probably . Don't ask a question on WG unless you are willing to read lots of answers , some even correct :shocked:
Dusty
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"Many" people NEVER fall?
Really?
I'm hard pressed to think of a motorcyclist I know that has NEVER dropped a bike (crash, parking lot, driveway, garage).
I'm sure there are SOME, but MANY? I DUNNO... I'm skeptical.
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"Many" people NEVER fall?
Really?
I'm hard pressed to think of a motorcyclist I know that has NEVER dropped a bike (crash, parking lot, driveway, garage).
I'm sure there are SOME, but MANY? I DUNNO... I'm skeptical.
:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
I've made sure to exclude those situations beyond your control, the driver that causes a collision and the same would apply to being stuck by lighting while riding or the deer that decides the moment in time to criss the road is when you intersect it.
Simply dropping the bike? Dumping it in a parking lot, drive way or garage? Not yet and its been over 40 years of owning bikes. It might happen but like Ive said, that doesnt mean it will happen and some here seem to envision is the guaranteed future of every rider.
Have I been involved in a collision? Yup. Wasn't talking about collisions.
There are bikes for sale all over the place that haven't been dropped. Someone is riding them. Since 1974, haven't taken a dive and I do know lots of riders that haven't ever fallen but then they don't think that because they can't do something that means no one else can either.
Again, the point was not everyone has to or will simply fall down without being involved in a collision. Instead of trying to figure out how to reduce the damage to a bike why not reduce the possibility of dropping it in the first place? Such a novel idea and one that protects the rider.
What good is an uparmored bike if the rider gets hurt? To hell with the bike, it can be replaced or repaired. Even if its a Moto Guzzi, its a bike and has a price tag on it. There isn't an price tag on the rider.
Just because some.people forget to put down a kickstand, look left and turn right, try to corner without leaning and don't know the limitations of their bikes or themselves doesn't mean everyone is like that. Most are not.
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Well, if we quantify it enough we can all reach the conclusion WE want.
My only objection was "MANY" and "NEVER".
I make no exceptions or exclusions.
I don't care who is to blame.
I'm just going with the odds (and my personal observations). They don't stand up by themselves (off the kickstands, and even then sometimes the stands fail). So eventually they fall down.
I bet that happens in some way to all eventually.
Of course there's always the exception that proves the rule.
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Possibly the most incorrect assertion ever posted on this board
Let's ask the dead and injured dirt riders. Street riding is very unlike riding in the dirt. The decisions you need to make are very different but maybe cars drive in the dirt alongside, who knows. Then there are those darned red lights and semis hitting the hills too.
Rocks and hard clay are so much more forgiving than asphalt and the Stelvio that falls on top of you off road in the dirt won't injure you at all, its just the padding provided by the dirt. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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Wait , whoever suggested a Stelvio was a dirt bike , let alone a beginner's dirt bike :huh:
Dusty
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Well, if we quantify it enough we can all reach the conclusion WE want.
My only objection was "MANY" and "NEVER".
I make no exceptions or exclusions.
I don't care who is to blame.
I'm just going with the odds (and my personal observations). They don't stand up by themselves (off the kickstands, and even then sometimes the stands fail). So eventually they fall down.
I bet that happens in some way to all eventually.
Of course there's always the exception that proves the rule.
Come on, let's be real here, a failing sideatand is not called dropping the bike. Someone colliding with you is not your fault. Context is everything until it is used to support something.
Yeah, plenty of people, and most do not drop their bikes. Most people do not get off their bikes and forget to put down the side stand down anymore than most people do not forget tonuse the brakes to stop at a redlight.
But right, everyone will fall, there is no hope, uparmor your bikes because you will fall.
All the ads saying the bike was never down must be liars, there is no other explanation. It must be the other bike they have that they dumped.
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When did I say everyone must fall , or that I am immune . You are the one who is claiming superior skills and just can't possibly fall down :huh: I was merely using examples of very talented riders that have fallen , if you are a better rider than these boys , well , great . Look , the issue at hand isn't whether or not it can happen , but how to deal with the after effects and how to minimize the chances of it occurring again , not what fabulous MC riders you or I are, and some time in the dirt is very beneficial , whether you agree or not .
Dusty
Okay, enough. Where did I say that superior riding skills make it impossible to fall down? You know I said no such thing.
I see the way it works, some fall, can't believe others will not.
The only point I've tried to make but that sticks in the craw is that contrary to what some right on this forum have said, falling is not some inevitably nor does falling make you a motorcyclist, if you fall, drop your bike not through the fault of someone else or something beyond your control, that means you lack some skills or aren't paying attention.
It isn't about the dirt, the uparmor or anything else. Pure and simple, if it is your fault, you lack some skills or didn't pay attention. Sorry, that is the way it is and hard to take maybe for those who dumped their bikes on a clear day, going through a curve and just ran off the road because they messed up.
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Norge Pilot,
When people suggest her trying some dirtbike, we are talking about riding around on in a field, getting used to turning the bike, starting and stopping, putting it on and off the sidestand... no one is suggesting she needs to ride across Baja on a Stelvio to learn road skills
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Norge Pilot,
When people suggest her trying some dirtbike, we are talking about riding around on in a field, getting used to turning the bike, starting and stopping, putting it on and off the sidestand... no one is suggesting she needs to ride across Baja on a Stelvio to learn road skills
Thanks Mr Mayor , better than what I was going to say .
Dusty
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Sigh :grin: All of those skills are best developed in the dirt , once again , there is a reason why almost every fast pavement racer trains in the dirt .
Dusty
Let's have some fun with this ..Valentino Rossi started on go karts...Since he's one of the best we can assume go karts are better than dirt bikes?
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What good is an uparmored bike if the rider gets hurt?
If you select good "armor", it can protect the rider as well as the bike.
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Let's have some fun with this ..Valentino Rossi started on go karts...Since he's one of the best we can assume go karts are better than dirt bikes?
Sigh :rolleyes: He still trains on dirt bikes . Hell , even Jimmy Johnson was a motocrosser :huh:
Dusty
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Let's have some fun with this ..Valentino Rossi started on go karts...Since he's one of the best we can assume go karts are better than dirt bikes?
I'm partial to a dirt bike on a go-kart track. :grin:
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Yeah. Rossi doesn't do dirt...
(http://photos.motogp.com/2013/12/09/1-2-copia_original.jpg)
(http://thewhyofriding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rossi_motocross.jpg)
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The first time I saw Freddie Spencer was on a gocart track, but not sure it was a dirt bike. LOL
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I think Fast Freddie is one of the few American Superbike/GP racers that did not have a dirty background.
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I think Fast Freddie is one of the few American Superbike/GP racers that did not have a dirty background.
Nope , he grew up in the dirt also , as did Schwantz . KR more or less developed the modern GP style while riding AMA flat track, he says it is the main reason he spanked the Europeans so quickly .
Yeah. Rossi doesn't do dirt...
Great shot of Rossi .
(http://photos.motogp.com/2013/12/09/1-2-copia_original.jpg)
(http://thewhyofriding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rossi_motocross.jpg)
Dusty
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I feel like I dropped a grenade in the middle of the room and walked away. I apologize for that. Let me clear up some information...
My wife is 5'10". She has no trouble flat footing the V7. When she wrecked she had on a helmet, boots, FirstGear mesh jacket, and gloves. The only piece of gear she didn't have on was armored pants, she was in jeans because "Motorcycle pants are ugly". She's still thinks they're ugly, but has bought a pair and won't ride without them now.
As for the dirt riding, my personal opinion is that so many great riders started there only because it's the only way to get on a motorbike at a young age. I think pro riders do it still to cross train. These opinions may be right, they may be wrong, but they have about as much empirical evidence as those to the contrary.
It is impractical for my wife to train in the dirt. It will mean buying another bike, loading it in the truck, finding a place to ride it, and clearing time for the entire evolution. It's just not going to happen.
Thanks to all for your responses. Please feel free to resume your discussion.
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I still think buying a lighter, less expensive bike to practice on would be a great idea.
With her height, a street-legal dual-sport like the Yamaha XT225 or XT250 would be great.
(http://i2.wp.com/reviewoutlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/2008-Yamaha-XT250a.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=370%2C246)
Otherwise, you can get these from Hepco + Becker:
(http://www.guzzitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/v7-special-engine-guard-501.540-close-up.jpg)
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There are street legal dirt bikes that make very good learning tools .
Don't worry about dropping a grenade on WG , a lively discussion re motorbikes is a good thing , and there have been several good suggestions made . Once again , the goal is to create a competent confident rider .
OK , here is the hard part . Marketing has convinced way too many folks that a 750 CC MC is a good beginner bike , and yes , a 400 lb MC is fairly light , but most of us started out on much smaller devices when a 750 was considered large . So , now you have to ask your self some tough questions , what is the ultimate goal here ?
Dusty
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Motorcycles don't fall over by themselves, you fall over and take the bike with you or forget to do something. Don't blame the bike, it doesn't do anything by itself.
This reminds me of the pilot's adage and retractable landing gear. There are those who have and those who will .....
I've always figured I ain't so good and need to "armor up" because broken bones are painful.
Then again I've "fallen off" dam near anything I've tried to ride in my life. tricycles, wagons, bicycles, mountain bikes, ten speeds, roller blades, three wheelers, street bikes, horses, skis, x-country skis, rowing shells, kayaks, canoes.
I guess I have to count my blessings as I've never rolled a car, pickup, dump truck, bobcat (well not all the way), reachlift, manlift, tractor or sheepsfoot roller. they won't let me on the Dozers or 'Cans :grin:
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The adage of those there are those who have and those who will came from those that have and follow the other adage:
Misery loves company.
The oft heard comment from someone who has fallen through no one else's fault...don't worry, your turn will come. Why do they say that? No reason other than the denial that just maybe they goofed up and can't bring themselves to admit they need to learn something better.
When in doubt, blame the sidestand, the tires, the big breasted girl who made you look, anything but your own skills.
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Is Spenson the famous mime ? :grin:
Dusty
I just reread that, who typed that? I did change it. Damn! Getting old is not for sissies.
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:popcorn:
Dave
Galveston
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The adage of those there are those who have and those who will came from those that have and follow the other adage:
Misery loves company.
The oft heard comment from someone who has fallen through no one else's fault...don't worry, your turn will come. Why do they say that? No reason other than the denial that just maybe they goofed up and can't bring themselves to admit they need to learn something better.
When in doubt, blame the sidestand, the tires, the big breasted girl who made you look, anything but your own skills.
Who is making excuses?
Saying that "it happens to everyone" is simply playing the odds.
Since NO ONE IS PERFECT, everyone will eventually screw up, and put a foot down on something loose, or leave it on a hill without it in gear, or let the sidestand sink into something, or misjudge the amount of sand in that corner, or grab a little too much brake, or SOMETHING that will lead to the bike falling over.
If there are some out there that NONE of these things have ever happened to - kudos. I might suggest they consider hanging up their helmets soon then, cause odds are they won't escape forever.
But saying that it happens to everyone eventually IS simply to make people feel better about screwing up.
Where's the harm?
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Well, I ain't winning any arguments with "Old Bike" so I better stay on topic.......This woman is my race bike rider's girlfriend...Yes, 6 foot tall and no need to discuss her lack of safety gear :laugh:
She never rode a motorcycle previously enrolled in a 3 day class about 4 months ago, she's 38 years old. The bikes used were 400 cc Japanese...She passed the course and got her license..... Besides the kick start 650 Triumph she rides a 90's Harley Big twin...She never dropped a bike while learning...She is an excellent car driver, very alert and smooth even when running in dense high speed traffic.Drives a clutch car without issue.. I'll stand by my first statement, a good car driver makes a good bike rider. If you have trouble and fumble the bike at low speeds on a sound road surface you may want to reevaluate bike riding..
(http://i.imgur.com/88Ltx6fl.jpg)
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The adage of those there are those who have and those who will came from those that have and follow the other adage:
Misery loves company.
The oft heard comment from someone who has fallen through no one else's fault...don't worry, your turn will come. Why do they say that? No reason other than the denial that just maybe they goofed up and can't bring themselves to admit they need to learn something better.
When in doubt, blame the sidestand, the tires, the big breasted girl who made you look, anything but your own skills.
What's the big deal about having limited skills? I'll never ride a bike like a racer, nor will I ever play the guitar like Eric Clapton. So what? I have other skills, things I'm very good at. I can still enjoy motorcycling even with my limited skills. In my case, armor is useful to minimize my chances of injuring myself. No biggie, that's why armor is available. This isn't a pissing contest. If you need to brag so much about how you've never done anything less than perfectly on your bike, perhaps you need to hone your skills at tact and get some control over your overconfidence.
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Here's my two cents. Admittedly it's putting the cart in front of the horse, but the year away tells me she's just not into it. If you could somehow encourage her to join you on a nice "long" ride, away from traffic, intersections, and freeways, on a road she's familiar with, the fun factor might be rekindled and she might be interested in relearning her skills. An overnight destination 2-3 hours down the road perhaps. Make it a date, not just a ride. I tried this with my SO and it got her riding again. I also agree with the benefits of dirt riding but that's a non-starter here.
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El Pescador & Mrs. El Pescador: I'll chime in on the merits of starting on a smaller bike (NOT a beater bike, just something more manageable), from the perspective of a middle-aged woman who didn't start riding seriously until I was 40 (and didn't have the option to ride in the dirt, because if so I would have been all for that).
In 2009 I got a Ninja 250, and I put 19,000 miles on it in the six years I had it. I went from "OMG what the hell did I buy this thing for? I must be nuts! I'll never be able to ride this!!" to riding the heck out of it every chance I got, including an overnighter from Philly to Waynesboro VA to ride Skyline Drive. Yes I dropped it a couple times in the early days, but it wasn't a big deal because it wasn't a big/expensive bike. About 18 months into owning the bike I low-sided in a sharp turn on my way to work, and all I did was pick it up and ride the rest of the way to work (then learn how to replace a cracked faring and turn signal). Riding the Ninja taught me all the basics of how to handle a bike, but more importantly it helped me build the skill and confidence to very comfortably upgrade to my V7, which I've ridden over 1400 miles in the four weeks I've had it. I'm not exceedingly brave or a daredevil or a risk-taker; just a normal woman who wanted to learn to ride well, and with some patience and the right machine I eventually did. At this point in my life there are few things that I love more than riding with my husband and our friends on my own bike.
Here's me six years ago on my brand new Ninja, wondering how the hell I'll ever learn to keep the shiny side up. (See? NOT a beater; a very nice bike IMHO):
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5625/21823390251_07f7cbc5c8.jpg)
And me four weeks ago, moments after taking ownership of my brand new V7, ready to hit the road. (I rode it 150 miles solo that day.):
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/653/21635624131_322a246901.jpg)
That's my two cents. I really hope it helps.
Kim
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Kim , that was brilliant . We needed a woman's perspective on this , leaving out the psuedo-macho stuff .
Oh , you certainly don't look middle aged .
Dusty
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:thumb:
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Kim, I'm not sure if you read my post above, buy my daughter is in the transition from "I hope I can learn to do this" to "Let's go for another ride" on the Ninja 250. It's great to hear another success story that involves that amazingly capable motorcycle.
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And me four weeks ago, moments after taking ownership of my brand new V7, ready to hit the road. (I rode it 150 miles solo that day.):
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/653/21635624131_322a246901.jpg)
That's my two cents. I really hope it helps.
Kim
Standing outside FBF!
Congrats on the bike. Hope you enjoy.
I love my V7!
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Kim , that was brilliant . We needed a woman's perspective on this , leaving out the psuedo-macho stuff .
Oh , you certainly don't look middle aged .
Dusty
My pleasure and thank you kindly. I definitely don't feel middle-aged, and for that I give most of the credit to my love of motorcycling.
:thumb:
:bow:
Kim, I'm not sure if you read my post above, buy my daughter is in the transition from "I hope I can learn to do this" to "Let's go for another ride" on the Ninja 250.
Good on you for being a great dad and best of luck to your daughter!
It's great to hear another success story that involves that amazingly capable motorcycle.
YES! Were I not an urban apartment dweller with limited funds I would have kept the Ninja as a track bike.
Standing outside FBF!
Congrats on the bike. Hope you enjoy.
I love my V7!
Thanks!
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I was in a similar situation. My wife and I (how do you like the English?) both had a sportster but we couldn't ride together for whatever reason. We've ended up with a Norge and 2 Yamaha XT250s which I've seen mentioned here. The Norge is for doing the Alaska Highway at some point and the 2 Yams are for riding down logging roads - not dirt biking. So far we haven't actually been down any logging roads (been too busy wit the Norge) but I'm sure we'll get on fine together on the Yams. And neither of us want to go dirt biking.
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I was in a similar situation. My wife and I (how do you like the English?) both had a sportster....
You're almost there. "My wife and I (how do you like the English?) EACH had a sportster". If that's what you mean.