Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: O on September 28, 2015, 10:56:49 AM
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Cool story about a woman that toured the U.S. on a Bonneville last year, setting a Guinness record in the process.
http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/guinness-record-ride
Too bad she didn't do it on a V7, but still a great adventure, I'm sure.
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A 900 Bonne isn't what I'd call a "small" bike. Some might. It's a very capable machine. I'd take my 850 LeMans anywhere. For the gal who set the record, you go girl! GOOD JOB!
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I don't think the Bonneville upped displacement to 865 cc until the 2007 model. The one she took was a 790 cc version. Not that I disagree with you, neither are small bikes, but in this day and age of liter+ bikes, they are often considered as such.
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Going back a while but back when I was a teenager had a friend who was so impressed with his new Suzuki GP100 he road it all the way down to Italy the week he bought it, from Halifax, only stopped for fuel. Italian border control looked over his passport a few times when they saw the French stamp with same date and looked at the bike.
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I don't think the Bonneville upped displacement to 865 cc until the 2007 model. The one she took was a 790 cc version. Not that I disagree with you, neither are small bikes, but in this day and age of liter+ bikes, they are often considered as such.
Sorry <shrug> rounded up :laugh: yes you're right, the buying public have been duped into thinking there's a big enough difference in a 865cc and a 1000cc that the "little" bike can't handle a road trip. Wasn't many years ago a Honda 750 4 speed was a big bike. Unless your pulling a trailer or plenty of gear and a big tattooed woman, I say it's overkill. My 955 Tiger hauls my fat arse just fine too.
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I toured last year on my 494 cc MZ Silver Star. '88-'92 I toured on a Morini 350K2 and will again next year. Two friends of mine went coast-to-coast (and back) on CBR250 Hondas accompanied by 250 Ninjas and other small displacement bikes. No big deal really.
A Bonneville isn't a small bike.
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A fine accomplishment for anyone. Engine size isn't the sole criteria of what makes a bike big. The Bonneville is a medium sized bike at best. With a low seat height and leas than 500 pounds, it is anything but a big bike.
Gone are the old days putting a bike into a size class based on engine displacement only. A 850-900cc bike can be considered a smaller bike easily. Big displacement doesn't mean big bike. Then look at the 650 V-Strom which for it's engine size is more bumble bee than svelte ADV. The Honda CB500X feels more like a 750 from a size wise and the Suzuki 250 feels more like a 500.
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A Bonny is a big bike in my book. A 250 or even a 500 could be considered a small bike.
I have ridden about 7500 km so far this year on a KLR 650, from Phoenix to LA, then up to the Yukon and back to Phoenix, next week I am riding another KLR 650 from here down the Pacific Coast and then over to Phoenix. Some would call a 650 single too small to tour, nonsense, for solo riding with a larger front sprocket it is very comfortable and can cruise at 75 ~ 80 mph. I actually prefer to ride and the comfort the KLR gives me over my R1150RT.
A small block V7 would be a luxury over the KLR.
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...the buying public have been duped into thinking there's a big enough difference in a 865cc and a 1000cc that the "little" bike can't handle a road trip..
I stopped by a neighbor's house on my Mille last year. The wife, who has experience with dirt bikes, saw the Mille parked in her driveway and said "Oh, you rode a little street bike". I had no idea that someone could look at a 1000cc motorcycle that weighs in the mid 500 lb range, and think it's little. I should have known, but I didn't.
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People tour on 10 spd bikes! I see them out in the Dakotas bucking head winds but they appear to be smiling! :wink:
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A few years ago in Georgia I was returning home from a 3000 mile round trip feeling pretty proud of myself. Checked in to the motel and there was a old couple in their upper 60's or early 70's also checking in. Yes they said that's our tandem bicycle out there with a tow trailer. We are almost to Jacksonville Florida. We departed from Oregon. Having written this it doesn't detract from the epic ride by the young lady on the Bonneville.
Bill
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Pardon me! "old couple in their 60s or early seventies? Know your audience!!
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Small? I still see that one as larger than "Mid-Size".
Go tell small to that guy who went most ways across the country on his Hodaka a couple years ago or those 125 touring weirdos.
A modern Triumph small? Hardly in general and given her physical size in particular? Not at all.
I do however dig her story and commitment and appreciate the link.
She says 11 "tire changes"... any idea how many chains?
For all the criss-crossing and doubling up in many states, one would think she had "warrants out" in Wy, Ne & Ia. Not much mile-love for those three.
Todd.
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Sizes in bike seems to have crept up like dresses sizes in women; what was medium not too long ago is now too small for a learners bike. But back in the day folks toured on 125's and 185's (two up no less - but it was a two cycle) including me on the 125. 350's were considered the smaller medium sized bikes; I toured on my 360. Huge upgrade from the 125! 500-650's were mid-sized bikes and we all toured on them (me and my 550) with the big boys having 750's.
Then the Goldwind happened with land yacht proportions.
Things got really out of hand after that. :boozing:
Sidebar; some folks are old at 60, some are not. :popcorn:
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My Brother-in-law (who lives in Italy) went touring around Europe back in the day on a Suzuki GT380 (2-stroke).
Got as far as Sweden and back to Germany before the inevitable 'nip-up' happened, one of his touring buddies towed him back through southern Germany and Switzerland...
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My Brother-in-law (who lives in Italy) went touring around Europe back in the day on a Suzuki GT380 (2-stroke).
I'm not sure that's much worse then Jeff doing his Iron Butt ride on a GT550:
http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html (http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html)
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My wife and I toured the Americas in 2012/13 Buenos Aires to Ushuia then North to Alaska, 26 states in the USA, 13 countries in South/ Central America 3 provinces in Canada on 2 650 single BMW's . Could have done with more horses in the US & Canada but they were fine ( more comfort & reliability would have been better) Size is in the mind, it's the Macho shit that makes us want bigger and faster, reality is most don't need it.
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I certainly wouldn't consider that a small bike unless they were towing a camper or something.
Remember the blog about the guy that toured all over on an old beat up Kawi KZ-440LTD? Called the 751 as I recall cause he found 751 dollars and decided to see how far it would take him.
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I'm not sure that's much worse then Jeff doing his Iron Butt ride on a GT550:
http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html (http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html)
Quite frankly, I'm surprised your GT550 lasted that trip. My son had a GT550 exactly the same color as yours and like clockwork he blew pistons regularly. Unlike my Yamaha 350 twins when his 550 blew a piston he said there was no warning. His GT550 was a terrible handler by today's or even it's current standards. We put some chrome expansion chambers on his which got him some respect. Those pipes gave him more midrange power, but it still wasn't as fast as you would think it should be. I rode Yamahas YDS2, YM1, R5, RD350 back in the day, all of which I toured on.
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Cool story about a woman that toured the U.S. on a Bonneville last year, setting a Guinness record in the process.
http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/guinness-record-ride
Too bad she didn't do it on a V7, but still a great adventure, I'm sure.
That was quite a ride. She fit that bike perfectly, looks like!
I note she said that her greatest fear is "having to work a nine-to-five job". Most of us find something along those lines to be somewhat of a necessity in order to gather tokens for motels, campgrounds, gasoline, tires, road food, etc. I'd like to know what her secret is! Or "who" he is ..... ? :laugh:
Lannis
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Lannis, I'll go into detail when I eventually get up there for a visit (soon), but I quit the 9-5 thing around 1989 because I was very unhappy with it, and have been working on my own ever since. I've been pretty broke at times, and not so broke at other times, but generally much happier. The biggest secrets I can reveal are to minimize expenses, and never get into debt.
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Cool story about a woman that toured the U.S. on a Bonneville last year, setting a Guinness record in the process.
http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/guinness-record-ride
Too bad she didn't do it on a V7, but still a great adventure, I'm sure.
Very cool!
Here's a thread about another gal on a long-distance adventure, on an even smaller bike (a Vespa): http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic141441 (http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic141441)
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In the mid to late 80's, me and the wife toured all over California and the Southwest on my 85 Yamaha RZ 350, it was smooth, comfortable for us and just fine in the twisties or the highway. Before that, I took long trips on an Yamaha R5, no problems. As I got larger, seemed I needed a larger bike, but the fun of touring on a small bike still interests me
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Don't forget the old adage;
Size isn't important, it's how you use it that counts (or is that for something else?)!
In my book, you can 'tour' on any Bike that'll cruise comfortably at around 50mph or so for a couple of hours.
I'd say it's more of an 'adventure' doing a big trip on a small Bike than on what we now call an 'Adventure' Bike :thumb:
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I used to think you couldn't till I spotted a Ninja 250 with an Oregon plate in Cabo San Lucas trekking on dirt roads all bagged up. Another is a guy I met with an SR500 who road cross country with it regularly. Flipped the odometer once and replaced once. No rebuild ever surprisingly.
Any Guzzi Ive seen was 750+ccs..
I would think a v7 would be awesome as tourer.
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Did in to the 100's of thousands on a G3L 12hp 350 Matchy. The Breva tours just fine. Hp is not everything.
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I'm not sure that's much worse then Jeff doing his Iron Butt ride on a GT550:
http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html (http://www.3cyl.com/iba/ibride.html)
Indeed, it takes a special bravery to attempt a long tour on a '70s 2-stroke triple. :laugh:
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I read a blog on Modern Vespa about a guy who toured the country, even going up to Alaska, on a 50cc Honda Ruckus! Doesn't get much smaller than that. I think he took several months and did around 30,000 miles on it. That's small displacement touring!!
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This is the crux of the matter. If you want to ride hell for leather and act the goat get a suitable machine.
For me at least 'Touring' is about the countryside you are travelling through and the people you meet as much as the pure 'Motorbike' experience, although that is a vital difference between a motorbike 'Tour' and a 'Road Trip' in a car.
For any of my US or Oz longer trips a V7 would be fine, as wod a CT110 Honda or my Mana or a host of other machines. When I do the 'Round Oz' trip we have planned with my mate in 2017 I'll be doing it on the Griso but only because I want to. Not because I need to.
Pete
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Very cool!
Here's a thread about another gal on a long-distance adventure, on an even smaller bike (a Vespa): http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic141441 (http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic141441)
Thanks for posting that, Jeff. I love her pictures of Baja.
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That's impressive, but that is not a small bike. This is a small bike to tour on! Two up, no less.
http://scootercanada.weebly.com/
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You CAN tour on ANY bike. It all depends on your attitude & time. Especially on the blue roads. As one mag editor said a few years ago; the bigger & faster the bike you have merely increases the sped at which one day you will eventually crash. Dealers will sell any bike to any customer with little regard to age or experience. Re-entry riders with the $ are influenced by their riding friends and purchase to much bike, farkled it before delivery then go out & crashed. Last time I checked they were the highest percentage of crashers. A couple came into a dealer years ago where I worked briefly to get the lady her 1st bike. She immediately went over to the Honda VLX600. Her male companion snorted & informed her that she "wasn't gonna ride that little piece of sh__ next to him." Awesome advice & support Dude!
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That's impressive, but that is not a small bike. This is a small bike to tour on! Two up, no less.
http://scootercanada.weebly.com/
Young people, what are you going to do? They'll do any kind of crazy thing. :laugh:
Although a Canadian from British Columbia rode his 1950's C12 BSA (a 250cc pre-unit single with a cruising speed of 50 MPH) from BC to Brimfield Massachusetts and back in 2006 for our International Rally, 6,000 miles. Just locked the throttle wide open day after day after day and watched the plains roll by, he said ..... :cool:
Lannis
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This is the crux of the matter. If you want to ride hell for leather and act the goat get a suitable machine.
For me at least 'Touring' is about the countryside you are travelling through and the people you meet as much as the pure 'Motorbike' experience, although that is a vital difference between a motorbike 'Tour' and a 'Road Trip' in a car.
For any of my US or Oz longer trips a V7 would be fine, as wod a CT110 Honda or my Mana or a host of other machines. When I do the 'Round Oz' trip we have planned with my mate in 2017 I'll be doing it on the Griso but only because I want to. Not because I need to.
Pete
This nailed it, for me at least!
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For those semi-serious about this subject I recommend the "Minimalist Touring Thread" on AdvRider.
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/minimalist-touring-thread-250cc-and-under.201349/
I'm thinking the rumored KTM 390 Adventure may hit the sweet spot for small displacement touring.
Mike
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That's impressive, but that is not a small bike. This is a small bike to tour on! Two up, no less.
http://scootercanada.weebly.com/
Ok this one takes the prize. 3K miles in eleven days is pretty impressive. Most 50cc scooters only do about 30 mph.
Having done back to back 3.3K mile rides last month, 8 days each, I am impressed. Most of the time we were traveling between 65 and 85 mph but stopping to smell the roses along the way.
Pete
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We get impressed (I do, anyway) with people touring the country on 250s and Honda step-thrus and 50cc bikes.
Some people tour the continent on pedal bicycles. If they can do that, we ought not be too amazed that someone can do it on a motorized bike.
Now if you're talking about Optimum Comfort, you can be like me and select a Stelvio over a Norge because the legroom is better ... or you can say "Oh, heck with a motor, I'll just pedal it myself .... " THAT's hard core!
Lannis
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I read a blog on Modern Vespa about a guy who toured the country, even going up to Alaska, on a 50cc Honda Ruckus! Doesn't get much smaller than that. I think he took several months and did around 30,000 miles on it. That's small displacement touring!!
I read an article of a young Canadian who rode across all of Canada on his Tohatsu 50 2 smoke in the `70's w/pics. :shocked: Where there's a will, there's a way.
When I ride long distances it's to get from A to B. Don't stop much to smell the roses. But do smell everything else. :grin: ANYBODY can travel in a car/truck. It takes more effort to do it on a MC/scooter. I want to experience everything around me. :boozing:
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Robert M. Pirsig rode a CB77 Super Hawk on the trip he made with his son and their friends in 1968 on a two month round trip from their home in St. Paul, Minnesota to Petaluma, California, which became the basis for the novel Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance:
I don't know much about th cb77 but I'm sure it's pretty small by today's standards especially considering 2 up?
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Here is good read still unfolding.
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/rach-ed-ride-the-tat-on-honda-c90s.1085263/
Pete
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About 15 years ago I camped next to a fellow on his way home from the Alaskan north slope. He was on a 250 rebel. Full camping setup and all. From somewhere in Indiana, if memory serves. Had been on the road since the end of the school year and would get home a week before the new school year. Do not remember if he was a teacher or an (older) college student. So, how small is to small?????
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Years ago I met a Guzzisti who lives in the Portland, Or. area who has spent his whole life frugally. His name is Lloyd and he's a retired engineer. He used to have Guzzis and his last big MC was a Ducati Monster when they 1st came out. After getting a # of speeding tickets on it he downsized for good. He rides his 200 Yamaha single all over the place including Baja. Any time it needs something he is so cheap he fabricates it himself if he can. His whole mantra in life is get by as cheaply as you can, even though he's smart enough to do otherwise.
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So what we really need now if for some 85 year old lady to do an around the world trip , unsupported , on a unicycle powered by a 10 CC model airplane engine . Would that settle this , or does she also need to be handicapped by carrying an orphaned kangaroo in front while also delivering bottled water to 3rd world villages ?
Dusty
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Yep, tour the world on a bicycle if you want, or a tracter trailer rig. Don't care.
Oh, and you can travel by motorcycle and not really see/experience any of the contryside any better than driving in a cage. I just like riding a motorcycle a little bit more than driving a sports car.
And now I find that my 'big block' 850 is considered a 'small' bike? Don't think so. Maybe a 350 or less is a 'small' bike. Heck, one of the Iron Butt Rally finishers this year was a 250 Kawa.
I would think the important part of the OP is that another woman traveled a long distance on a motorcycle. Enough have done it that it is not very notable anymore, no matter how small the bike/motor.
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Sydney to London:
http://www.thepostman.org.uk/wp-content/gallery/1-australia-20/11-1.jpg
http://www.thepostman.org.uk/the-journey/
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Yep, tour the world on a bicycle if you want, or a tracter trailer rig. Don't care.
Oh, and you can travel by motorcycle and not really see/experience any of the contryside any better than driving in a cage. I just like riding a motorcycle a little bit more than driving a sports car.
And now I find that my 'big block' 850 is considered a 'small' bike? Don't think so. Maybe a 350 or less is a 'small' bike. Heck, one of the Iron Butt Rally finishers this year was a 250 Kawa.
I would think the important part of the OP is that another woman traveled a long distance on a motorcycle. Enough have done it that it is not very notable anymore, no matter how small the bike/motor.
It's only notable "culturally" any more, not physically. There's no reason in the world that a woman in the right physical shape can't ride a motorcycle or drive a race car as fast and far as a man can.
Matter of fact, I don't know why women aren't regularly the world's billiard's champions. A steady hand and eye, patience, and skill and practice, not physical size, is what's required. Or chess, for that matter.
Women will never play men head-to-head at golf, or wrestling, or football, or baseball; they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals. They're just not built that way.
But if it requires grit, and common sense, and an ability to choose the right path, and patience, rather than load-carrying ability and upper-body strength, then there's a lot of places in the world, including long-distance motorcycling, where a woman is going to out-ride us, so any man's ego better be ready for it!!
Lannis
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That scooter ride across Canada is brilliant! Adventure biking at its finest. (Wind, rain, long stretches of dodgy roads, overcoming adversity, wildlife sightings, and run-ins with the local constabulary)
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I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.
(http://www.vespausa.com/public/upload/images/resized/240x240/001%20Vespa%20Sprint%20_NEW.jpg)
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I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.
(http://www.vespausa.com/public/upload/images/resized/240x240/001%20Vespa%20Sprint%20_NEW.jpg)
Good idea, since those small tires will last 3,000 miles each. :boxing:
I tour on my 400 MP3 to Guzzi events. Some of the Guzzisti look @ all the stuff I carry and how far I've come and say to themselves, do I really need a bigger bike to get around? :grin: No you don't really, unless you ride 2 up.
Heck, some have ridden their 250 MP3s cross country. It's doable but I like to have more power available when needed. 1 guy rode his 500 MP3 from Florida to Alaska and back. :shocked:
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Some years back a guy went round the world on a 250 cc.Honda Helix.
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I want to tour on a Vespa Sprint 150 but I can't find a road slow enough.
(http://www.vespausa.com/public/upload/images/resized/240x240/001%20Vespa%20Sprint%20_NEW.jpg)
My wife's Vespa Sprint 150 will keep up with traffic on the freeway (60 to 70+ miles per hour). Even though Vespa officially says it will only go 59 miles per hour, it will go a good bit faster, WOT. The big issue, I think, for touring on a Vespa is fuel capacity. You really need fuel canisters strapped somewhere to the scooter. My Vespa 300 GTS has a 2.4 gallon fuel tank. It gets 70 miles per gallon, but your are really looking for fuel before 150 miles. My wife's Sprint has an even smaller tank, holding a mere 2.1 gallons. True, it gets better mileage than my 300, but you're still looking for fuel before 150 miles...
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My wife's Vespa Sprint 150 will keep up with traffic on the freeway (60 to 70+ miles per hour). Even though Vespa officially says it will only go 59 miles per hour, it will go a good bit faster, WOT. The big issue, I think, for touring on a Vespa is fuel capacity. You really need fuel canisters strapped somewhere to the scooter. My Vespa 300 GTS has a 2.4 gallon fuel tank. It gets 70 miles per gallon, but your are really looking for fuel before 150 miles. My wife's Sprint has an even smaller tank, holding a mere 2.1 gallons. True, it gets better mileage than my 300, but you're still looking for fuel before 150 miles...
My MP3s carry a bit over 3 gal.s so I carry a 1 gal. plastic can and it has come in handy many a time out West. I get 70-65 mpg on my 250 & 400 MP3s riding 65 m ph. My Aprilia 500GT scooter get's 55 mpg and goes over 200 miles per tankfull with it's 4.5 gal. capacity.
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I used to tour on my RZ350 with soft saddlebags and tank bag. It was great...as long as I didn't get too enthusiastic with the throttle and drop the fuel mileage down into the 20s! LOL. It needs crank seals right now, but I will tour on it again soon.
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....they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals. They're just not built that way.
Lannis
I think I would take issue with that Lannis. There are any number of nations that have shown that they are happy to have women in the role of front line soldiers.
I think the issue for some cultures, including mine, is not that the women can not do it, but that the men don't like it. It's hard to kid yourself that you are fighting for home and family when the family is in the ditch beside you manning a machine gun and definitely in harms way.
As too small bike touring, when In the early 70s I was living in Auckland and working for Joe Lucas, an English girl came in looking for a set of points for her BSA which she had just ridden out from England.
It was a plunger frame 125 Bantam!!! Must have dated from the very early 50s.
It was like this one;
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Bantam.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Bantam.jpg.html)
The design brief for these things was that they get a man to work cheaper than he could go in a bus! Not world touring.
I was very impressed.
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Another good blog about long distance touring, posting as he goes, on a Vespa:
http://singlecylinderpsyche.com
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Regarding fuel capacity; I will fill up the Griso, depending upon stops, at 90-120miles. To and from the Datil rally I had two spots where I did 138 miles which is about my upper limit - and I had a couple miles to travel through town at the end of the leg with other options if needed. But 100-120 seems to be about when I'd like a little break. There have been rare times where a 200 mile range would be very nice (Nevada for example) and certainly more comforting.
I find smaller bikes just too small to comfortably sit on for long stretches. More so as I age. I'd be pretty happy for most riding with a 450-600cc motor if it was in a frame that I could drape myself over. Sadly, the larger bikes come with the much bigger motors. And extra weight to boot.
We just had two gals finish Army Ranger school; still up in the air if the Army will let them become Rangers. They are the exception as most women that have tried failed (much higher failure rate than the guys, but women tend to fail on the physical bits were the guys tend to fail with the head games) so I don't think you'll find many women taking over those roles; but I do expect to see some there. Especially if that is what they want to do. When I was active in NRA Bullseye shooting, we had one wife dragged down to the range and within a year was out shooting her husband. Another gal, a grandmother from the western part of the state and an Olympic medalist, was looking to unseat our state pistol champion (I think she did, but I was out of the game by then). Pistol shooting is something like 90% mental; guys don't have the edge there (women don't either; pretty level playing field - it comes down to the individual and not their sex) so they need to pick up their game. :)
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Women will never play men head-to-head at golf, or wrestling, or football, or baseball; they won't be combat infantry Marines, and (if there's a real war on and not just a big sociology experiment) they won't be combat Rangers or Seals. They're just not built that way.
I dunno.
I realize this isn't the same thing as an MO of combat marine or seal but it's not far off and it addresses some of the physical attributes of your discussion, as well as the peril of being in harm's way.
My SIL dropped out of college and joined the marines a month or so after 911.
She was already a 3rd degree black belt in Shotokan Karate who fought on a team representing the US in Japan.
In boot camp they noticed her strength and abilities and basically left her alone during basic hand-to-hand training.
Later in Marine combat training non of the women in her unit could take her in hand-to-hand and her male instructor challenged her to take him down. She did, effortlessly.
In the years she was on base at LeJune we visited and saw quite a diverse group of modern marines. She was definitely bigger and stronger than many of the males.
She served in Iraq (Ramadi for more than a year) during which time she constantly volunteered for operations. So much so the one day her sergeant told her no, 3 or 4 of her good friends (women marines) died from a suicide bomber at the checkpoint she would have been working.
Yeah, she was technically "logistics" but she certainly had the strength and capacity for combat and certainly faced some of the same perils.
I get the point that men and woman are different, and a much lower percentage of women are going to be able to match the physical abilities of a man. But there's a hell of a lot that has to do with combat that isn't just straight strength. As you suggest things like mental acuity/toughness, dexterity, and a host of other skills come into play and very much level the playing field. Hell, that sorta was the whole point of guns as opposed to swords in the first place.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/khR7NodL7Jok17aoDDVVTW6gztT-5c-LpgpBIRG72rYoscy9q73oX_E2rhycEENT11fFb4TujoojNZEWjKrDrk05wbwpxPeyo4a3CkhCmQWxnVqHQjeoReiPPlh-jbLCfi4pXLMd9BZAlkLteIB6NKreEGP1-pdWrIUGGLL2azqfvhEIqZgq9XeTacoeW-Gca1voEsnz5KElpwoZWcvnGbRcyGwLwLCv4x4mLfmVh5Wy6hyTvBdR6NUn6OxuVx0E-CvcK5uImd-6UKic3DUs-PVP9KLLeuvEvJX8z3YJOS_V_odtIu0_9yQnarD9MDpGPqV3PK4Zt1qaXs_mOn5XoQG1j_KZIQEbFw_czzq7AgPBk3LrIb1roSe9biYIGjurqXf3EgMjlgsntB9iqCvVEphIy_8ynx5wM32Qs8-NYRDoEq0IZzsLlOA9mEO4cU-xqsdfyTq9ZuFSRad_5M_8t1KkB6HS25ck1e8gKGiyoL0J9pY7O6VrExzqG4X6jWz-rYSi0GwGQlEyxWR7Cx4sYgDwlb6rscBuXogLlnKtVnc=w576-h432-no)
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I think I would take issue with that Lannis. There are any number of nations that have shown that they are happy to have women in the role of front line soldiers.
The men don't want them there because they don't want to be fighting alongside someone who can't carry them out if they're wounded.
They don't want the sexual tension that comes along with it.
And what country lately who has women as front line soldiers has been fighting for their lives in a serious war? That's what I'm talking about, not a "social experiment" like we use the military for now. Is there a big strong woman somewhere who MIGHT be able to operate at the level of the smallest, least capable guy in the unit? Maybe, but what does that mean in a service with 175,000 men in it?
My son-in-law in the Marines at this moment is tasked with trying to bring a group of women up to combat readiness, and it's a frustrating, failing effort. And when my son was fighting in Fallujah and Ramadi, his outfit would have absolutely not put up with the limitations of having women on their rifle squad, just for the sake of "diversity". Dirty, heavy-lifting, mortar-baseplate-carrying, hand-to-hand fighting in urban environments with 60 pounds of body armor and ammo, breaking in doors, knife-in-hand, spill their guts fighting? Give up the "I am woman, hear me roar" stuff for the sake of 21st Century "feel good" .....
Lannis
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Really , the resistance to females in combat thing is based in nature . Until men can bear children , nature compels us to keep the ladies protected . Nothing to do with capabilities or a willingness to do the dirty work .
It has everything to do with capabilities, nothing to do with willingness.
And the military is presently a social laboratory as much as a war-fighting organization. Once (God forbid) we get into a fight-for-the-nation's-life war, all that will stop real quick, I suspect.
Lannis
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So, the 'average' woman is not up to combat just as the 'average' male is at a minimum level.
If you applied some of the standards being discussed half the men would need to be taken out of combat duties. The common soldier/marine/sailor/airman is not some superhuman who can heft his 250lb team mate and run to safety. He is a normal guy who has had some good physical training.
Yes, an 'average' female would need a bit more training to get up to speed. Compare a 5'4", 110lb woman to a 5'4", 110lb man.
There are VERY few military units who have integrated combat units. If they have combat units they are typically all female. Some good reasons for that and most are cultural and related to living conditions. The common theme is many of those units are feared a bit more. Women have shown themselves to be a bit more ruthless in combat than their male counterparts. Probably because of what typically happens to them when they are overrun.
I have no problem with women in the military at any level. What I do have a problem with is applying different standards for them. For years it is drilled in that a person needs to meet certain minimums to qualify for duty. Then women come along and the standards are reduced because they are 'different'. Fix that first. Then address the social issues.
One last issue. Assaults. The military needs to crucify any and all who are guilty of such acts. From privates to generals. Not just make them retire or be discharged, put them behind bars where they belong.
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I have no problem with women in the military at any level. What I do have a problem with is applying different standards for them.
As long as we don't do that, I'm fine with any of it.
Lannis
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And here I thought this thread was about touring on a small motorcycle. Boy, was I wrong! Kinda makes me wonder where we would be if the OP's article had been about some guy doing the same thing. I, for one, think it would be neat to do a 30 day motorcycle trip on my V7. The challenge would be to carry less stuff, what I tell myself I need to do at the end of every trip. I'm planning a 3 week trip across the US in 2016 and the Stelvio is my steed of choice to haul my butt and stuff since I know we will have to deal with really hot (100F), really cold (25F), and really wet conditions. I'm in awe of anyone who can travel by motorcycle for an entire year on a lesser pack mule bike.
Peter Y.
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So, the 'average' woman is not up to combat just as the 'average' male is at a minimum level.
If you applied some of the standards being discussed half the men would need to be taken out of combat duties. The common soldier/marine/sailor/airman is not some superhuman who can heft his 250lb team mate and run to safety. He is a normal guy who has had some good physical training.
Yes, an 'average' female would need a bit more training to get up to speed. Compare a 5'4", 110lb woman to a 5'4", 110lb man.
Absolutely, and my example (my SIL) is 6' and was probably 160-170# of muscle in those days. Except after boot where they frickin' near starved her because moron put her height down as 5'8" or something like that. And still she was guide every week but one.
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And here I thought this thread was about touring on a small motorcycle. Boy, was I wrong! Kinda makes me wonder where we would be if the OP's article had been about some guy doing the same thing. I, for one, think it would be neat to do a 30 day motorcycle trip on my V7. The challenge would be to carry less stuff, what I tell myself I need to do at the end of every trip. I'm planning a 3 week trip across the US in 2016 and the Stelvio is my steed of choice to haul my butt and stuff since I know we will have to deal with really hot (100F), really cold (25F), and really wet conditions. I'm in awe of anyone who can travel by motorcycle for an entire year on a lesser pack mule bike.
Peter Y.
Indeed, what a turn this thread has taken. Gotta love WG! :rolleyes:
Peter, do you have bags on your V7? Is the carrying capacity of the Stelvio really that much greater, or is it also that it provides a little more protection from the elements?
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Can't be done..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg.html)
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Indeed, what a turn this thread has taken. Gotta love WG! :rolleyes:
Peter, do you have bags on your V7? Is the carrying capacity of the Stelvio really that much greater, or is it also that it provides a little more protection from the elements?
Let's get back to basics,
Bivi bag
Dry sack 30 litre
Roll mat
Small rucksack
A pack of bungle cords
A couple of home made Guzzi fit Hot doggers for cooking on the go.
Any one touring for months without roughing it just a bit is not taking a road trip they are just leading a privileged life style.
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Any one touring for months without roughing it just a bit is not taking a road trip they are just leading a privileged life style.
Check out this gal here -
http://bsa.org.nz/index.php/stories/peggy-and-the-bantam
This is the hardest-core motorcycle touring you can do ... !! AND the most on-topic post of this thread, too ....
I've got her book, it is WELL worth buying! It'll make you feel like a wimp, too.
Lannis
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Peter, do you have bags on your V7? Is the carrying capacity of the Stelvio really that much greater, or is it also that it provides a little more protection from the elements?
Owen, I have HB bags on the V7 and they are significantly smaller than what is on the Stelvio NTX. In addition, the Stelvio bags are rectangular and thus I can stuff more in than the plastic bags on the little bike. Add in a much larger rear rack on the Big Girl so I can load up a "U" shaped bag with all my camping gear, cooking stuff, Kermit chair, and some freeze dried food...now, that's a load. Were I to go strictly minimalist (bivy sack, etc) I could certainly travel on a Vespa 50.
Let's face it, I got my minimalist camping fix a few years ago so now (age 69) I'm beyond that. There is enough adventure built into a long motorcycle trip that I don't need to add much. Something usually happens to add excitement to any of my trips and I always meet interesting people along the way.
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Photos-from-Vietnam-66-67/Photos-from-Vietnam-service/i-twbTPV2/0/M/101812-3-M.jpg)
Here's me on a camping trip a few years ago.....a live fire exercise. I'm on the right and my friend 1LT Bill Thompson on the left. Bill is buried in Belleville IL.
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I don't think anyone would say you CAN'T. I think the real question is "Is it practical?". Even that is subjective. I guess my answer is "If you think it would be fun then do it"
Check this one out:
http://www.whizzermotorbike.com/glenallen.htm (http://www.whizzermotorbike.com/glenallen.htm)
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Pete,
It IS neat to do the long trips on a V7. I've now got the load down to about 30kg, including the wok & a couple of stoves, the hammock (not a bivvy bag), tools & spare parts (that's the heavy bit), stool & some food. With either the saddle bags on the V7C or the banana bag on the V7 Special (only 3/4 full), there's room to spare, and the bikes are not overloaded. I seem to have everything I need, and more. The more is mostly in the spares and a lot of the tools that don't usually get used, but may well be needed sometime.
The V7 will take you comfortably wherever you want to go, is decent on gravel, light enough for us old farts who don't get around to keeping up our exercises to pick up if it does happen to fall over, and lots of fun. And again, lots of fun - that's the best bit.
Mal
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Tent, sleeping bag, thermarest, pillow, chair, stove, coffee press, tire patch kit, tools, and clothes. <shrug>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/illinois%20rally/1-001_zpse2lban2r.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/illinois%20rally/1-001_zpse2lban2r.jpg.html)
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60+ days on the road, camping, on a Morini 3 1/2 count? My wife did that.
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60+ days on the road, camping, on a Morini 3 1/2 count? My wife did that.
Yeah, I'd say that counts.. :smiley: