Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cwolfe on October 03, 2015, 08:53:31 AM
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I am new to the forum so if this has been discussed my apologies in advance.
I am currently looking for a modern midsize bike with a retro look. I already have a 68' /2 beemer.
I have driven both a new V7 II Stone and a Triumph Bonneville and each bike felt good to me.
I am leaning towards the V7 II but still undecided. Can anyone give me some insites of choosing one over the other. Again my only background with either bike is brief demo ride. Thanks.
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Triumph
Pros
Good dealer network
Excellent build quality
Will hear comments like "cool old bike man"
Cons
A bit heavy
Some say it lacks character
Moto Guzzi
Pros
Light fun bike
Same comments as Triumph
You get to hang out with other Guzzi riders
Cons
Barely existent dealer network
Dusty
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Both are great bikes, no doubt. If you do your own maintenance then the Guzzi is easy to work on (no experience with Triumph on that). If not then you need to be relatively close to a dealer as they are fewer than Triumph dealers (My Guzzi dealer is 125 miles away but no big deal to me).
You won't go wrong with either, if it matters to you you will see a lot more Bonnie's than Guzzis on the road, some like it one way( a la Harley ) and others want to be less ubiquitous.
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The Guzzi is a pretty much proven design and really shouldn't give any problems- so the dealer support thing is not that critical. If you are buying new, then the V7II has the better gearbox as well as single throttle body- both very good things. If you are at all mechanically inclined, it is very easy to wrench on. If you MUST have a dealer, then the decision will probably steer you to the trumpet.
I'm prejudiced, but the technical support on this forum is unbelievable. I can post a question and expect a detailed answer within the hour. To me: this forum IS my support network. The handful of hardcore parts people are equally helpful.
While the accessories market for the Guzzi is smaller, the pieces and parts tend to be good quality. A V7 with Hepco Becker bags and the Le mans inspired fairing is a really spiffy smaller tourer.
The triumph really does make more power and, in my mind, it is noticeable. The big difference will be up hills. Both are extremely docile, extremely likeable machines. The Guzzi certainly has more of an exclusive, quirky vibe. Both will go on the highway, but neither is really cut out for the multi lane slab. This is a very, very common comparison and the answer is always the same: pick the one you like- neither is a bad choice.
If after the smoke clears you still drift off thinking of pulling up to a little spot in your Guzzi and having yet another person say, "Moto what??"- then you have your answer. You've contracted the sickness, my friend.
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Both are great bikes. My '03 Bonneville still makes me smile and has been superbly reliable. It is physically larger than the V7 and is commensurately heavier. The aftermarket for Triumphs is huge and very diverse. This is a good thing, because components on the Bonnie do not match the quality you will find on the Guzzi. If you find the V7II to suit you as it sits on the showroom floor, it is probably a better value. However, if you enjoy personalizing your bike, the Triumph will keep you happy a good long while...
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Aftermarket goes the same way, as well. Lots for Triumph. Moto Guzzi not so much.
NOT true anymore. Between Guzzi, AF1, MG Cycle and GuzziTech there are tons of aftermarket options for the V7 series. Where have you been?
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http://www.af1racing.com/store/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2616
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I was in the same boat a couple years ago. Rode both, discovered the V7, on paper was inferior to the Bonnie, but after riding them, seemed to be the better bike. So what did I do? I bought a CB1100....... fit me better. Tall guy with 36" inseam, the body does not suffer smaller bikes well anymore - although I still look at both of those bikes.
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I was in the same boat a couple years ago. Rode both, discovered the V7, on paper was inferior to the Bonnie, but after riding them, seemed to be the better bike. So what did I do? I bought a CB1100....... fit me better. Tall guy with 36" inseam, the body does not suffer smaller bikes well anymore - although I still look at both of those bikes.
Bang , 5 years later , herpes :grin:
Dusty
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I currently have a 2007 Bonnie Scrambler that I picked up lightly used at a great price, it's a great "little" bike but clearly best on two lane country roads. I'm not a huge fan of it on highways but that's OK, I'm tired of highways and would rather avoid them anyway. At 60 MPH bopping down a nice country lane, it's a great bike and the riding position is for me, perfect. I've "customized" it a bit (seat, pipes, suspension etc), and it's just right for me at the moment.
I've ridden Guzzis for a long time and if I was buying new bike right now and had to choose between the two? It would likely be a V7II over a Bonnie (except for maybe a Newchurch model), they're just very cool bikes. I've yet to ride one, but I'm sure it's a hoot. Gorgeous little bikes those V7s, I DROOLED over that grey one at the Guzzi national this year. The only downside? Dealer support. But all that said, if I was truly shopping for a bike, my ultimate would probably be a used Tenni green Griso.
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Ive had 3 Bonnies. Right now Im renting a v7 Stone. I think they're both on par. I was expecting the v7 to be a slug. It's actualy just as fast as a Bonnie or at least feels it but the v7 has a little less top end. It like surges to 80-85 and will fall flat and crawl to 110. Im 200lbs and 5'10" .
Would I own one? Maybe. Id buy a v7 over another Bonnie at least.
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I'm 162lbs and the CB gets up and romps - if you play with the higher rpm's. But it's speed limited to 112mph (send the ECU off to get burned and it can be removed, then it will do well over 130). But she is a bit heavier and puts out 80ish hp. But it's kinda like racing in your Thunderbird or Buick, not its' thing. There are better choices if you wish to play the hooligan (e.g. Griso :evil: ).
That said, the CB was designed for cruising around Japan, where their national speed limit is around 60mph. From there to about 65 she is a dream. 75-80 she can get a bit buzzy. She will do the freeway all day though and folks tour on them (one couple from Belgium treated them as adventure bikes and went down to Belize. Were going to go all the way but the gal ended up with back problems that needed serious attention so they bailed in Belize. Went everywhere they would take the adventure bikes, just a wee bit slower. They even installed adventure style panniers.
As said else where here many times, it's the rider more than the bike. :grin:
While still in production it's not sold in the states (which means a new one may be hard to find, but accessories are out there) which I think is a bigger deal for some. Also, kinda of a narrow niche machine that appeals to segment that seems to be smaller than the V7 or Bonnie crowd.
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Kinda begs the question; If Norton came out with a retro twin in the price range of the Bonnie and V7 I bet they couldn't make enough of them.
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When I compared and test rode a Bonnie and V7R in 2012 the weight difference made the decision for me. And I think the small block Guzzis are gorgeous, and we are blessed with an incredible dealer in Houston: MPH. No regrets after over 3 years. I like lighter bikes.
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Owned a 2011 T100 until this summer. Said for several years if I could only own one bike the Bonnie would be it. Bewildering array of after market stuff. The bike is virtually bullet proof and is substantially faster than the V7 (talking about the later fuel injected Bonnie's). If you buy a Bonnie make sure you have an extra $1,000 because you will need a different seat and shocks and fork springs to make it rideable.
I sold the Bonnie this spring. After riding Italian bikes for a couple ot years the Triumph was just, well, boring to ride. The 'If I could only have one bike' honor is currently held by my Ducati Monster.
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I've had 3 Hinkley Triumph Bonnies-all great bikes. Now a V7-2015 MY 5 speed. Both were/are great bikes for what they are.
Both bikes, after shock and fork work, make me smile every ride.
I bought the Guzzi just because it wasn't a Bonnie. No regrets. I don't think there's a bad choice between the two.
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This is a Guzzi forum. We are all afflicted. Buy the GUZZI.
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I love my Bonneville and as has been said previously, there is lots of support and aftermarket goodies for Bonnevilles. Shocks fork and seat transform Bonnevilles. I would take it (and have) anywhere. That said, I sure put a lot of miles on my Norge...
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This topic has been back and forth on this board many previous occasions. Do a search and you'll find plenty more.
My '15 V7 now has about 2k on the odo and it's my favorite bike ever among many of much larger and more powerful displacement. I've logged many miles on my bud's Bonnie. My experience is this:
-In good and bad ways, the Bonnie reminds me of a large displacement vintage Japanese bike. Not much character but rock solid to the max and kinda enjoyable in this regard. I've said the Bonnie is boring in the past but in truth, it is only boring to me when it is placed in comparison to the Guzzi which has character in spades.
-The Bonnie is too small for my tastes and 32" inseam though it weighs more than the Guzzi - seat height may be lower than Goose, not sure.
-I dunno about the tank range on the Bonnie but the Guzzi's tank range is unbelievable almost for this kind of bike - regularly in the 250 mile or more distance.
-Though it has more overall power, the Bonnie seems busier to me at the speeds I like to travel 70-85mph. But yes, as mentioned above it does quickly and surprisingly run out of juice as the needle approaches the ton, this especially surprising given how easy and smooth the bike is at 80 and even 85. I don't much care, however, as I like the fact I am getting uncomfortable and out of juice at 100. The previous 106 HP Street Triple I owned would have stupidly been asking me to speed up about this mph and I, stupidly, would usually oblige.
-Guzzi feels more flickable and fun to me personally.
-Though Guzzi has vastly increased customization options for the V7, the Triumph still dwarfs it in this arena. Found a Guzzi passenger sissy bar/backrest (that is not a top box) for your V7? I thought not. This is just one example.
-Triumph dealers all over the place if you need one. But Guzzi is, I notice, expanding in this regard. There are now two dealers within 250 miles of me now and just 4 years ago, none.
-Does the newest Bonnie still have those pseudo carbs on it though it's fuel injected? I always thought this was kinda silly.
-Subjectivity be damned, between two gorgeous bikes, the Guzzi is simply MORE gorgeous.
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I agree 100% regarding the Bonnie's stupid fake carbs on fuel injected bikes. That's reason enough not to buy one.
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Kinda begs the question; If Norton came out with a retro twin in the price range of the Bonnie and V7 I bet they couldn't make enough of them.
Maybe. Those of us who have hung on to our Norts know it can still stay ahead of either of these bikes in stock form no problem. One advantage of the Triumph is there are so many ways to make it go fast. The carburated bikes respond well to the usual intake, exhaust and timing mods. This alone can add over 10HP to those bikes, dyno proved. Then there are big bore kits and cams. A few tuners Like Ed M can add a few more ponies to the V7 but not nearly the bang for the buck as the Triumph.
Pete
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I am currently looking for a modern midsize bike with a retro look. I already have a 68' /2 beemer.
Screw the retro look nonsense. Just ride the /2.
Don't just "look retro," "BE RETRO."
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I'm surprised that no one has commented on one difference between the V7 and the Bonneville that is critical to me: the Bonnie has chain final drive. I owned chain-drive bikes for many years, and because of that, have avoided them for many more. A couple of years ago, having constantly read of how much easier to maintain modern chains had become, I bought a Diavel. It was a hoot to ride, although not really a very good daily rider, but one thing hadn't changed: if you want your chain to last, you still have to spray it with some kind of dirty, messy goop every 300 - 500 miles. Necessarily, the goop ends up not just on the chain. You also have to be pretty mindful of the chain tension. In fairness, it wasn't really all THAT much trouble, but it was more than I wanted. Adios, Diavel.
I'm still considering the addition of a lightweight bike to my garage in the spring. Originally, I figured it would likely be a Ducati Scrambler, but on reflection, it won't. No more chains.
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So, you're asking a bunch of Guzzi lovers... and I think you're getting some good, unbiased advise. I wonder, did you post a similar question on a Triumph forum?
I just did the Distinguished Gentleman's ride in Los Angeles last week. There were probably about 6 Moto Guzzis out of over 400 bikes (which is a very high concentration of Guzzis). You could not look in any direction without seeing a Triumph. Several old Beemers, Royal Enfields, etc. too.
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_3692.jpg) (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/timscudder/media/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_3692.jpg.html)
I was looking hard at the V7s about a year ago. I went into the local dealer to test ride, but didn't even bother, because they happened to have a 2002 V11 Sport Scura (very distracting...). If the V7 is addictive, the V11 is a harder form of the same drug (at least for me).
As for local dealer support, we had a topic on here recently about why there are so few dealers - bottom line, because there aren't that many bikes. However, there are at least two great shops (Harpers and MG Cycle) right on your phone/computer (and this forum).
So, if the wider support and bigger crowd on Triumphs appeals to you, go that way. If want something a bit more distinctive and emotionally involving, well... you know what to do.
Keep the /2 - but ride the hell out of the new Guzzi.
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Get the Guzzi.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/spiral_zpscluvcooh.gif)
Buy two.
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https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=moto+guzzi+v7+vs+triumph+bonneville&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl
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Thanks to everyone who took the time to post a comment. You gave me lots to think about.
I am still on the hunt!
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This one:
(http://i.imgur.com/F96aYyO.jpg)
While I too like the Triumph, I went with the V7ii because there really just aren't that many of them around. I get told all the time "Nice bike! What year is it?" or "My dad/brother/uncle had one of those back in the day!" Plus, IMO, they sound far better than the Bonnies. They may be a little under powered, but I guess that depends on what you expect out of it. I'm not expecting to strap bags onto the little 750 and head out to Alaska (I live on the East coast). BUT, there are guys who have done similar with the same bike. It's the perfect bike for tooling around town, going out to find that perfect weekend ride in the hills, and even commuting to work.
As far more knowledgeable folks have pointed out before me, dealer network for Guzzis is a bit thin, but I live a few miles from a dealer. Great for me to have them do my first 600 mi. maintenance or if anything I wrench goes horribly wrong. But if you are more proficient than I, you should have no trouble addressing anything with this bike. Also, no chain/mess to deal with! :thumb:
Disclaimer: just like everyone else here, I'm biased!
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Dang, she looks purdy in red!
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That does look good in red, even matte red (though I think I might prefer shiny red). Good score! Wish I had one!
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That does look good in red, even matte red (though I think I might prefer shiny red). Good score! Wish I had one!
Dang, she looks purdy in red!
Thanks guys! I wanted the special but didn't want the spoked wheels (I know, they are gorgeous, but heavy, and I want to be able to do an emergency patch in case of blowout). I do like the shiny red better. But the matte red grown on me every day and I don't see many bikes with a matte finish, not counting rattle-can works of art.
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Thanks guys! I wanted the special but didn't want the spoked wheels (I know, they are gorgeous, but heavy, and I want to be able to do an emergency patch in case of blowout).
Not according to Guzzi. When the 0TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer debuted we were told both the mags and the spokes were lightweight wheels.
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Not according to Guzzi. When the 0TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer debuted we were told both the mags and the spokes were lightweight wheels.
Huh, good to know.
Lightweight as in both the spokes and mags are the same weight or lightweight with respect to the materials used in each type? (i.e. "These are lighter than other mag/steel spoked wheels.")
Either way, the spokes have tubes, no? Or am I mistaken there as well?
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Huh, good to know.
Lightweight as in both the spokes and mags are the same weight or lightweight with respect to the materials used in each type? (i.e. "These are lighter than other mag/steel spoked wheels.")
Either way, the spokes have tubes, no? Or am I mistaken there as well?
We were lead to believe that both the new mags and the new spoke wheels where made of lightweight aluminum and were the same weights. Now this being Guzzi I might not blindly accept that, there may be a difference, but I don't think it is much from that.
You are of course correct, they are still tubed, so like you, I prefer the mags. Besides, they are gorgeous.
:thumb:
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I've commented on this in other threads, but the Bonnie I owned didn't excite me anywhere close to what the V7 does for me. Someone earlier was also bringing up the CB1100, which isn't really a fair comparison, but I'd throw that into the same 'boring' category after having ridden one a few times. My bottom line is that Guzzis really do ooze character.
Beyond that I think most other stuff has been covered here. I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone. If you have one (or more) near you, great. For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need. And for those few times someone might need one 'out of network' they'd probably be just as hard pressed to have a Triumph dealer close to where they are as well. Hell, here in Cleveland we don't have a Triumph dealer but we have (technically) three Guzzi options.
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Beyond that I think most other stuff has been covered here. I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone. If you have one (or more) near you, great. For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need. And for those few times someone might need one 'out of network' they'd probably be just as hard pressed to have a Triumph dealer close to where they are as well. Hell, here in Cleveland we don't have a Triumph dealer but we have (technically) three Guzzi options.
I disagree.
It's FINE if you have ONE GOOD ONE.
But if you only have one, 75 miles away, and they SUCK, what are you going to do?
Now that said, I will admit we're rotten with them here.
Guzzi - FBF (~50 miles), Motorcycle Mall (~90 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Europa Macchina (~140 miles)
Though the closest has been horrible, MM has a very bad reputation, Coopersburg Euro is my go to now but is still 2 hours and another state (and tolls if I'm going to direct route) away, and Europa Macchina is far enough that they are my "last resort" though I've heard good things about them.
In contrast - TRIUMPH? I can't sneeze without hitting a dealer
Triumph - Mt. Holly (~10 miles), Xtreme Machines (~40 miles), Manayunk (~35 miles), Hannum's HD/Triumph (~50 miles), Metuchen (~60 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Martin's Motosport (~80 miles), L&D (~100 miles)
So in a slightly smaller radius I've got a full DOUBLE the amount of Triumph dealers, not to mention I have two Triumph dealers closer than ANY Guzzi dealers (hell they're even in the same state as me, no bridges/tolls).
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I disagree.
It's FINE if you have ONE GOOD ONE.
But if you only have one, 75 miles away, and they SUCK, what are you going to do?
Well you're probably not going to buy one. But that's my point. Most owners are only going to need a dealer to be near where they live (ie the majority of owners stay local...though I will admit that older Guzzi owners do seem to travel more).
But your dealer situation applies to people in your area. The dealer situation here applies to people in my area. Etc, etc. Talking about dealer networks in general terms to random people from different areas is kind of pointless.
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Well you're probably not going to buy one.
Not going to buy one of what?
Well you're probably not going to buy one. But that's my point. Most owners are only going to need a dealer to be near where they live (ie the majority of owners stay local...though I will admit that older Guzzi owners do seem to travel more).
But your dealer situation applies to people in your area. The dealer situation here applies to people in my area. Etc, etc. Talking about dealer networks in general terms to random people from different areas is kind of pointless.
Well yes and no.
Of course it's most important where you live, UNLESS you need help on the road. I suspect strongly that what I see around here (that there is more than double the number of Triumph dealers than Guzzi dealers) is likely more representative of the rest of the country (of course there are exceptions).
That representativeness, if true, speaks to the probability of a touring rider finding help if they need it.
Then again, my answer to that is even if there isn't an MG, Ducati, Triumph, or even a Harley dealer nearby, you're probably never THAT far from a U-Haul, and that's all you REALLY need to get home if you have to.
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"Not going to buy one of what?"
Whatever make and model of bike it is that's being sold at that shitty, far-away dealer.
Don't take this the wrong way Kev, but often I feel you like to argue just...because. Your points on this are echoing mine. (I'm trying add the 'beer' emoticon here but it won't let me, so imagine a beer, in my hand, being raised.....now I'm thirsty).
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"Not going to buy one of what?"
Whatever make and model of bike it is that's being sold at that shitty, far-away dealer.
If you are saying that I'm not likely to buy another Guzzi or Ducati think again... I mean shyte, I've only bought 4 in the past decade. I'm probably not buying one this year, but maybe next, we'll see. Jenn's eyeing up the Scrambler, and I would consider an 850 Guzzi or maybe even a Cali.
Not sure what this had to do with our discussion though?
Don't take this the wrong way Kev, but often I feel you like to argue just...because. Your points on this are echoing mine. (I'm trying add the 'beer' emoticon here but it won't let me, so imagine a beer, in my hand, being raised.....now I'm thirsty).
I enjoy a debate, and I will play the devil's advocate to examine both side sometimes (in an effort to better understand it). But in this case I don't see how we agree or are echoing each other's sentiments?
I mean, I've come to terms with the fact that Guzzi dealers are farther and fewer between than I'd like.
But I'm not joe-average, for whom I suspect that is a problem and will continue to hinder Guzzi sales.
So my point is that the dealer network IS a concern to a lot of buyers, even some of the few who HAPPEN to be near a good one.
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My wife and I have owned two Triumph Modern Classics, my 2014 Thruxton, and her 2013 Bonneville. They are great bikes. Relatively light weight (compared to my Norge), very easy to ride (with a heavy flywheel, making stalling difficult), good looking, very easy to wrench on and modify, with a HUGE supply of billions of after-market bits, and a relatively large dealer network. (We traded my heavily modified Thruxton in on my Norge and my wife's Bonneville in on my new Vespa GTS 300 Super.)
We have never owned a V7, but I see a V7 in our near future (I just haven't told my wife yet). I suppose it would be a bit of a risk, not being next door to a dealer and possibly having to wait for more than a month for parts if something goes wrong, but the V7 is more soul-stirring to me--and that aspect is important, at least to me. Plus, the V7 is still made in Europe, and that, too, is important to me...
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I looked at both about a month ago. I need a light bike because I have bad knees and taking the bike in and out of the garage, and parking spots can play havoc on your knees and back if it is heavy.
The Guzzi is lighter by 100 pounds, has more character and soul, is rarer and hence cooler, and has a shaft drive.
It is also made in Italy in the same factory since 1921.
The Triumph is made in Thailand, I believe, is seen all over the place, is 100 lbs heavier, has more horsepower and better dealer support. Also more accessories.
Tulsa has a great Guzzi dealer and mechanic.
I picked the guzzi, hands down.
Mine is a 2014 black stone.
I am new to the forum so if this has been discussed my apologies in advance.
I am currently looking for a modern midsize bike with a retro look. I already have a 68' /2 beemer.
I have driven both a new V7 II Stone and a Triumph Bonneville and each bike felt good to me.
I am leaning towards the V7 II but still undecided. Can anyone give me some insites of choosing one over the other. Again my only background with either bike is brief demo ride. Thanks.
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Cast wheels? Not for me!
You can play music with spoked wheels.
https://vimeo.com/115267783
:laugh:
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Just for the record, the wet weight difference between a V7 and a Bonneville is 61 lbs. The Triumph puts out 20 more horses, but only 4 more ft/lbs of torque. I'm sure this is why many folks say that power seems comparable. This is according to the Motorcyclist comparo back in 2012, so the bikes were weighed on the same scale and the same dyno was used.
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Guzzi - FBF (~50 miles), Motorcycle Mall (~90 miles), Coopersburg Eurosports (~80 miles), Europa Macchina (~140 miles)
Though the closest has been horrible, MM has a very bad reputation, Coopersburg Euro is my go to now but is still 2 hours and another state (and tolls if I'm going to direct route) away, and Europa Macchina is far enough that they are my "last resort" though I've heard good things about them.
LAMoto in Arlington is pretty decent (my closest dealership). Having said that, Walter at Europa Macchina is awesome. If they were a bit closer I would have bought from them. Small, family owned resto business. If you ask, they'll show you their workshop in the back where they are restoring a GORGEOUS old Bentley (not to mention a couple of old Ducs, vintage Porsches, Morgan 3-wheelers, AND a GT1000 they have for sale.... I always look forward to going there and hanging out and seeing what they're working on.
Thanks for the info on the wheels Kev. I assumed that the spokes were steel and the cast wheels, being alloys of some kind, would be lighter! This is why I love this forum, I learn something new every single time I log in.
OP: GET THE GUZZI!
:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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CapitalGoose,
How on earth do you keep your bike so clean?
Mine has fingerprints all over (still) from the
shippers, but since I live in CA, I'm somewhat
limited on my water usage (has to be recycled).
(Same color, by the way...been drooling for the
satin red since I first saw it.)
Yours looks like it's just had a wash and wax.
Jim
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CapitalGoose,
How on earth do you keep your bike so clean?
Mine has fingerprints all over (still) from the
shippers, but since I live in CA, I'm somewhat
limited on my water usage (has to be recycled).
(Same color, by the way...been drooling for the
satin red since I first saw it.)
Yours looks like it's just had a wash and wax.
Jim
LOL! I just got it, so I wipe it down before getting on and after getting off! I just put the initial 600 miles on her this weekend so she's in for service. I can finally take her out for a real ride soon!
I wanted the red one too! Initially I wanted the shiny red that came on the non-ABS Stone. The satin red has grown on me though. It's just very unique and I wouldn't trade it for anything now.
Thanks for the kind words, sir!
Also.... :gotpics:
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Screw the retro look nonsense. Just ride the /2.
Don't just "look retro," "BE RETRO."
There is some truth here .
Dusty
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... I *will* say though that the whole dealer network thing is a little overdone. If you have one (or more) near you, great. For the majority of owners that's all they'll ever need.
Whether it's a car/truck/motorcycle/whatever, I think having a local dealer that you like is crucial. The longer the tours you plan to take, the more a nationwide network becomes important (or relying on your own mechanical skills & the parts you think you can lug along with you {In the early 70's when I owned a '59 MGA, I travelled with enough parts and tools I could do a minor rebuild by the side of the road.}).
Just for the record, the wet weight difference between a V7 and a Bonneville is 61 lbs. The Triumph puts out 20 more horses, but only 4 more ft/lbs of torque.
As Jay Leno likes to say, HP sells cars, torque wins races. I've really enjoyed a couple of cars I owned that would really scream in the last 1500rpm of their range....but good torque is a lot easier, and sometimes safer to live with. A better torque to weight ratio makes (for me) a much better experience.....and probably longer clutch life.
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Apparently, Triumph will have a "big reveal" on October 28. I am really interested in seeing the new, water-cooled Bonneville, especially the café racer version.
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Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.
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Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: That sounds like a pretty fair and balanced report.
Thanks for chiming in!
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Scramblers have 270 degree motors. Bonnevilles/Thruxtons have 360 degree motors. The difference is more substantial than you might imagine. There is also a noticeable diff between 865 and 790cc motors...
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I've had three Bonnies and now a V7.
Enjoyed and enjoying both bikes the same. No bad choice IMHO.
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vntgmx:
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Very useful comparison you provided there. :)
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Scramblers have 270 degree motors. Bonnevilles/Thruxtons have 360 degree motors. The difference is more substantial than you might imagine. There is also a noticeable diff between 865 and 790cc motors...
I'm sure there are differences in power levels and character, but how substantial they appear to be will probably vary a lot with the individual rider.
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vntgmx:
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Very useful comparison you provided there. :)
You got it and FYI I've ridden a buddy's first year injected Bonnie & much of what I feel about the Scrambler applies to the Bonnie except of course the off road capabilities. Like I said earlier they are both good choices & I'm sure you'll be happy with either one.
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I'm sure there are differences in power levels and character, but how substantial they appear to be will probably vary a lot with the individual rider.
You pretty much nailed it, Kev. I suppose it might be nuance to someone new to Hinckley Bonnevilles, but those 270 degree motors are much more tractable than the 360s. The 360 degree 790s are the free-breathing opposite...they even have a different cam profile than the 865s. They respond beautifully to an aftermarket ignition module that allows more rpms, and things that enhance breathing...if you like that sort of thing (I do). Even the sound varies with th 360s sounding like bored-out Meriden Triumphs and the 270s sounding more "potato-potato-like" (you'll need aftermarket silencers to tell). The Triumphs (like the V7s) are much-loved for good reasons.
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I've only ridden the 360's, and would be curious to feel the difference, but I suspect I prefer the 360's just from the descriptions (and I've liked what I've ridden).
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Well I currently have a 2014 Triumph Scrambler & just recently got a 2014 V7 Special so I'll just give you my observations of these two. Of course I realize the Bonnie might be a hair different then the Scrambler so take it with a grain of salt. I have logged 3000 miles on the Triumph & just a hair over 800 on the V7. The Triumph has the Arrow 2/1 exhaust with remap & a Dart Fly Screen & TKC80s. I just installed a Dart Marlin Fly Screen on the V7 & rubber is stock. Both have rear racks which I run a Wolfman Tail bag on.
Engine - The Triumph has a smooth non vibey feel & doesn't rev up quite as fast as the V7. The V7 cruises 65-75 better then the Triumph but the Triumph is smoother down low & at slower speeds. Neither are going to blow anyone away with sheer HP but the V7 feels quicker & the Triumph feels more Torquey. Both clutch & shift great but the V7 takes a little more thought when starting out as it seems to have a taller first gear then the Triumph. Both are imo excellent transmissions & are very easy to find neutral with.
Ergos - The Triumph is a physically bigger feeling bike & yes you can feel the weight difference though once in motion it's not a big deal. Handlebars on the Triumph & seating position is more upright & more dirt bike/adv feeling where the V7 tends to lean ever so slightly to a cafe style(for lack of a better description)of riding position if that makes sense. Both are comfortable & I have thus far found both stock seats to be fine for 100 mile jaunts.
Suspension - Both need help here but the Triumph is softer feeling then the V7 but it also bottoms more easily on road dips etc. Neither is going to win any awards here but they are ok again for what I'm doing thus far. You just have to be aware of their limitations if you planning on pushing things which I don't. Both handle well & they both will surprise you on how well they get after it if you care to push them a bit. The lighter weight & smaller size tends to favor the V7 here but the Triumph holds it own.
Brakes - Both have good brakes but the V7 front brake feels stronger then the Triumph but it might also be the weight difference coming into play but there's nothing to complain about here on either bike unless you are expecting sport bike or Motard type of performance.
Misc - If you care to do any off road exploring the Triumph is surprisingly game as I've had mine on trails that I wouldn't think of taking the V7 even if I had proper tires on it. It really handles things straight forward & doesn't throw any surprises at you. For pure street & highway speeds I would favor the V7 as it is smoother up top & more willing to do that for long stretches in my brief experiences. Both are fun bikes & imo both look terrific & I don't think you can really make a bad choice.
Yep. What Kev said.