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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: erik_w on October 04, 2015, 04:41:59 PM

Title: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 04, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
Hello!

I am getting some unpleasant noises from my four stroke Ural (650 boxer twin) and I would like to know what might be causing it.

- Noise comes from the cylinder area on both sides (one more frequently) and sounds kind of like when you making machine gun noises with your lips. Not like a metallic clink but a more muted, fast vibration sound.
- It occurs randomly while running, at 30 km/h as well as 80 km/h, it comes and goes without an apparent cause. Pulling back the throttle quickly will make it stop temporarily.
- Both plugs are light brown and engine pulls strongly across the whole range, there is no effect on performance.
- Grounding out the cylinders produces a nasty metallic clinking sound on the grounded cylinder.
- My wrist bin bushing are not 100%, I did them up with sandpaper but they weren't perfect.

I strongly suspect something is wrong with the wrist pins and / or bottom end? I want to rule out ignition problems since the plugs look so nice?

Would a wrist pin to loose / to tight cause this?

Thanks!







Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: unclepete on October 04, 2015, 05:52:38 PM
What did you do to the wristpin bushings with the sandpaper ?
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 05, 2015, 06:46:39 AM
Wrist pins sound like a rattle when you back off throttle.
Quote
and sounds kind of like when you making machine gun noises with your lips.
Normal BMW/Ural exhaust note.. :evil:
Quote
My wrist bin bushing are not 100%, I did them up with sandpaper but they weren't perfect.
Now, that's an understatement..
Obviously, I'm clueless though.. at least this will bump it to the top.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Peter from Sch'dy on October 05, 2015, 06:59:18 AM
I don't know much about Urals but if the wrist pins were tight on assembly I wouldn't think they'd stay that way very long.

Best,
Peter
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 05, 2015, 04:49:47 PM
I don't know what to believe, some say that wrist pins are diagnosed by grounding the cylinder and some say that wrist pins cannot be identified by this.

what has me wondering the is randomness of the noise, it comes and goes like it wishes and I can't seem to cause it on my own. if I cut the throttle quickly while it is going on it stops temporarily.

if it where detonation due to pre ignition, wouldnt the spark plugs be white and nasty looking? I haven't touched the ignition timing recently.

1. what are symptoms of detonation?
2. what are symptoms of a bad wrist pin?
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: LaMojo on October 05, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Detonation shows up on hard acceleration  -  also, sometime during high ambient heat, when lugging the motor.   

Wrist pin noise generally goes away with dead cylinder.  Rod bearing louder on acceleration and deceleration.

Neither noise will come and go.

I would look at the valve train.  Maybe a loose valve guide.

Pull cylinders and have a look see.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 05, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
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2. what are symptoms of a bad wrist pin?

I've already told you. Loose wrist pin will rattle when you let off the throttle.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 06, 2015, 12:51:16 AM
Hello!

ok, gotcha on the wrist pin.

loose valve guide? I've had that once before and the symptoms was massive oil smoke and bad running. I don't have that now...

I'll have to open up and see.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Farmer Dan on October 06, 2015, 02:45:11 AM
I'm not familiar with Ural's but it sounds like it could be a loose sleeve.  If they have them?
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 06, 2015, 05:30:16 AM
What is a sleeve in this context?
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 06, 2015, 07:24:04 AM
A sleeved cylinder. I dunno what they use..
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 06, 2015, 08:49:26 AM
there is of course a cylinder sleeve, which is a part of the cylinder and in no way detachable, I have a very hard time imagining this coming loose.

the engine is very similar to an old guzzi two valve, just the bare essentials, no extra technical nonsense.

Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 06, 2015, 04:42:17 PM
there is of course a cylinder sleeve, which is a part of the cylinder and in no way detachable, I have a very hard time imagining this coming loose.

the engine is very similar to an old guzzi two valve, just the bare essentials, no extra technical nonsense.

Sleeves *have* come loose before. Depends on the quality of the assembly job. I'm not saying that is your noise, but..
Ural? Uhhh, the same company that totally misses the timing marks on the flywheel? Sometimes?  :smiley: :boozing:
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: acogoff on October 06, 2015, 07:01:44 PM
A loose valve seat will also make a whole lot of clackety racket and is usually easily detected with a simple finger over the sparkplug hole "compression" test.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: erik_w on October 07, 2015, 12:19:41 AM
yes, a loose seat or guide would result in almost total loss of compression? 

some urals indeed have incorrect timing marks.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 07, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
yes, a loose seat or guide would result in almost total loss of compression? 

some urals indeed have incorrect timing marks.

Not necessarily.
Title: Re: Unpleasant cylinder noise - bad wrist pin?
Post by: luthier on October 07, 2015, 09:07:30 AM
Might be a bent push rod too. Why not pull it apart and have a look? They are simple enough.
Otherwise just ride it and wait for the big bang.
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