Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pyoungbl on October 19, 2015, 09:13:29 AM
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Campfire friends, I did not have a clear understanding of how the flat tappets were installed and thus what it took to inspect them for wear. I'm sure I'm not alone in that ignorance. Recently someone said "I'll have my dealer inspect them for wear and if I need rollers.....". Here's some photos to better understand what' going to be done:
This is the orientation of the cam box as it's installed on the head (of course this one has already been removed from the head)
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-GZx3pv8/0/M/DSCF1889-M.jpg)
note that the cam is held in place by a cap that is bolted into place from below the cam box. You can see the pushrods sticking up from the tappets.
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-7LKdqRL/0/M/DSCF1888-M.jpg)
another view of the cam box, normal orientation.
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-tvsrddR/0/M/DSCF1890-M.jpg)
cam box inverted, bolts removed, cap removed...now you see the cam
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-zDPFtmz/0/M/DSCF1891-M.jpg)
cam removed, now you can see the wear surface of the tappets
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-QJrzDMf/0/M/DSCF1892-M.jpg)
tappet removed, you can see that one cannot just remove the tappet for inspection without pulling the cam
(https://peteryoungblood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/12-Stelvio-NTX/i-Q3DGgs4/0/M/DSCF1893-M.jpg)
and these are the pushrods...ain't they cute!
My point here is that the labor to check the tappets for wear is exactly the same as replacing with rollers. This is not a simple 15 minute check!
Peter Y.
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Many thanks for that. I realized that a lot of work was needed just to inspect the tappets; those photo's nail down exactly what needs to be done. Very clear now. :bow:
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I can see clearly now why the cam and followers go bad. It's those frigging set screws that retain the tappets in their bores. :grin:
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I can see clearly now why the cam and followers go bad. It's those frigging set screws that retain the tappets in their bores. :grin:
No set screws. I'm sure you are poking fun at my earliest thought that there were set screws...someone else might actually take your comment to be serious and start a whole new thread about the damn incompetent engineering that put set screws securing tappets.
Peter Y.
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You got me there. I'm never one to pass up on an opportunity to crack wise. :thumb:
I agree that this tutorial will answer some good questions/ concerns.
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Peter, maybe my monitor is playing tricks with the colours here , but I have to ask.....
Did you plate the cam boxes????? :shocked:
They look golden on my screen!
John
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I would hope that dealers would now stock at least a couple of roller kits to eliminate downtime should one be inspected and found to be failing. I chose to do mine preemptively primarily because I knew I would likely be without the bike for weeks if the dealer did it and did not have the kit in house. Doesn't seem fair to have to wait weeks for a job that only takes several hours.
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:1: :1: :1:
Fantastic. Knowing how to fit is is valuable, knowing where and how to look is priceless.
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John, the gold color is probably due to the halogen lights on my kitchen counter. The castings are silver in color.
Lucian, were I a dealer I'd be very hesitant to stock a $1,000 part on the off chance I'd need it. Throw in the fact that there are four different kits and you are asking for problems. This does reinforce the dilemma of how the problem is going to be handled. You have to get the tappets inspected for possible damage ($400 in labor), get the claim approved, order the parts, get the parts from Italy, and finally install the parts. I can see this taking 4-6 weeks, probably more. If no damage is found you are still stuck with a $400 bill and the knowledge that you'll probably have to go through this again when you discover your clearances opening up. Winter is a good time to tackle the job, doing it yourself or having your dealer do the job. Your dealer will appreciate the work and you won't miss the bike so much.
Just my $.02
Peter Y.
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Thanks, Peter. Those photos explained a lot.
Spud
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His hand looks overly warm too, so it's probably the white balance caused by the choice of lighting in the room. Don't trust it to be true color.
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Peter:
having no skin in the game - but have followed this thread closely, thanks for posting pics and it helps to see what is going on and where to go.....
Mark
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John, the gold color is probably due to the halogen lights on my kitchen counter. The castings are silver in color.
:grin: :grin:. Thank goodness!! Plating them would have been just a bit nerdy!! :grin: :grin:
John
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You got a problem with gold plating?
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You got a problem with gold plating?
:grin: not at all!! :grin:.
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I would hope that dealers would now stock at least a couple of roller kits to eliminate downtime should one be inspected and found to be failing. I chose to do mine preemptively primarily because I knew I would likely be without the bike for weeks if the dealer did it and did not have the kit in house. Doesn't seem fair to have to wait weeks for a job that only takes several hours.
Dave, most Guzzi dealers aren't made of money. Holding hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of stock on spec is just not viable for most of us. There is also the issue of availability. I've got one bike here that I've been waiting on a 'C' kit for since July! I still have no ETA! On that one I'm actually pulling the kit off my old motor and installing it in the broken bike to get it going and gone! I'm hoping, eventually, to have one 'Spare' 'C' kit on the shelf to deal with future emergencies but that will only be because I bought one for myself to ensure I wouldn't be off the road in the event of failure. As it is it looks like Piaggio is going to reject my claim based on age of vehicle! Not real happy about that. :angry:
Pete
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You got me there. I'm never one to pass up on an opportunity to crack wise. :thumb:
I agree that this tutorial will answer some good questions/ concerns.
No room for silly humor or wisecracking here :rolleyes:
Dave, most Guzzi dealers aren't made of money. Holding hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of stock on spec is just not viable for most of us. There is also the issue of availability. I've got one bike here that I've been waiting on a 'C' kit for since July! I still have no ETA! On that one I'm actually pulling the kit off my old motor and installing it in the broken bike to get it going and gone! I'm hoping, eventually, to have one 'Spare' 'C' kit on the shelf to deal with future emergencies but that will only be because I bought one for myself to ensure I wouldn't be off the road in the event of failure. As it is it looks like Piaggio is going to reject my claim based on age of vehicle! Not real happy about that. :angry:
Pete
Damnit Pete , that ain't right . When the mothership disses you , it disses all of us . Good luck .
Dusty
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thinking of doing this myself - seen Pete's video on stripping the box and it looks straight forward, but what does removing it from the head entail ? is it simply the four big bolts, is there something hidden, any potential pitfalls, things to watch out for on a Norge
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You can do it !!!
Follow Pete's instructions and you won't go wrong -- I was concerned that dealing with the hydraulic chain tensioner and keeping the timing correct would be the hard part, but it wasn't difficult at all !!
Pete's instructions go through it step by step in the "rollerisation" thread. The Norge is the easiest of the conversions because you don't have to remove the heads -- I found doing the conversion to be enjoyable, a two or three evening project.
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What MGrego said. :thumb: Just finished doing mine, quite easy if you follow Pete's instructions. Just take your time.
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thinking of doing this myself - seen Pete's video on stripping the box and it looks straight forward, but what does removing it from the head entail ? is it simply the four big bolts, is there something hidden, any potential pitfalls, things to watch out for on a Norge
Mainly it is just also pulling the exhaust and intake off. You also need to take care that you match the head gasket thickness properly.
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Nice job of documentation!
Bob
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From reading Petes thread I am taking it the pipes pipes gaskets (apart from rocker cover) do not get touched on a Norge?
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Looks like Pete bailed out. Too much winter crap from the non-ridering trolls I guess. :sad:
So we need to figure it out ourselves.
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Looks like Pete bailed out. Too much winter crap from the non-ridering trolls I guess. :sad:
So we need to figure it out ourselves.
He just posted on another thread about this topic. Maybe the man needed to visit the restroom for a minute? He's not entitled? :rolleyes:
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No, he has part company. :sad:
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No, he has part company. :sad:
DAMN
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THX very much for the pictures and post.
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No, he has part company. :sad:
B****r.
Didn't see any sign of that coming. :sad:
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B****r.
Didn't see any sign of that coming. :sad:
Yeah. He's got no right to do that without asking permission.
So 'fess up, who upset him?
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Yeah. He's got no right to do that without asking permission.
So 'fess up, who upset him?
He got tired of the trolls. Don't blame him.