Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ohiorider on October 21, 2015, 11:48:09 AM
-
http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/Bonneville-Event?from=HPR#
It doesn't say much, except the Oct 28 date should tell the tale.
C'mon Guzzi. A standard/retro with big block engine.
-
From http://www.motorcycledaily.com/
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2015/09/is-this-the-2016-triumph-bonneville-1100-with-david-beckham/
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/090715top-iR-730x432.jpg)
-
Got the email too, looks like a big bore scrambler style on the way, maybe based on their big triple. Whatever it is, their current engines are the hot lick.
-
I likey but do I have to get a haircut like that? Way to go triumph!
-
I, too, received the email. I am really excited to see the new Triumph Modern Classics, especially the new Thruxton/Street Tracker R.
I have the itch for another cafe racer, but I am not keen on the current US V7 II Racer. I much prefer the version that most of the rest of the world gets (though I have been considering getting a basic V7 II Stone and then removing and adding about $2,000 worth of bits...).
-
How much could it cost to build a tank without the ugly flange/seam on the bottom. Would not be so bad on a $4K budget bike; but awful in this segment IMHO!!!!!!!!!!
-
The Radiator in front of the cylinders is unfortunate...Alan
-
How much could it cost to build a tank without the ugly flange/seam on the bottom. Would not be so bad on a $4K budget bike; but awful in this segment IMHO!!!!!!!!!!
Did the Triumphs from the 1960s/70s have a flange on their tanks? I truly cannot remember. I'm thinking my BSA Spitfire Scrambler (A10 version) was flanged, but wouldn't bet money on it.
-
http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/Bonneville-Event?from=HPR#
It doesn't say much, except the Oct 28 date should tell the tale.
C'mon Guzzi. A standard/retro with big block engine.
The V12 Stone is the answer.
http://racingcafe.blogspot.ca/2014/02/moto-guzzi-v7-stone-otto-valvole-1200.html
:drool: :drool: :drool:
-
Did the Triumphs from the 1960s/70s have a flange on their tanks? I truly cannot remember. I'm thinking my BSA Spitfire Scrambler (A10 version) was flanged, but wouldn't bet money on it.
They did not have a flange and this is a rub to a lot of folks. I know a guy who took a hammer and beat the flange down.
-
Thanks for the memory refresh re flange/no flange on the fuel tank.
I haven't priced new 865 Bonnies (T100) recently, but I'm guessing they're hitting the mid-$8000 range, maybe a bit more (?)
Any guesses or published info on what the big Bonnie might have as a USA sticker price? I'm thinking $10-11k range.
I am totally certain that the new Brit twin will have it all over the Honda CB1100 re looks, 'soul' and 'character.' However, I'm starting to shop Cycle Trader for good prices on leftover 2014 CBs, and find the low end in the high $6k range, though most discounted 2014s are closer to $8500, approx. $2000 off of MSRP. To my way of thinking, that's a lot of bike for not a lot of cash. Of course, that's the std version without ABS. But still ......
I've talked this through with Dusty who has taken me through the exercise of 'how long have you kept twins vs 4 cyl bikes' etc, and he may be right. The CB might be plain damn boring. However, after watching several video ride reviews of the bike, I find I'm somewhat drawn to the familiar sound of the whining Honda 45+ years after the first 'big' CB hit the streets. I think the quality is there, as is fit and finish.
In closing, I may have to give one of these orphans a try. I think Honda put their best effort into the bike. It simply wasn't retro enough for many (including me, but I'll overlook that.)
It will be hard to get away from 'what kind of bike is that ..... who makes it, etc, etc.' Likewise hard to get away from the sweet big block sound and feel of the 1200 Sport (oh, wait ....... I'm keeping that bike!) So when I need the Guzzi fix, it'll be there. For those other rides, there's the old GS, and hopefully, a Honda I admire for it's many attributes, if not for its soul and character.
-
I mentioned earlier that my local Triumph dealer says the 865 motor is a thing of the past. It won't past the new Euro EPA specs so the 1100 liquid cooled motor is next up for bonneville and all new euro bikes will have ABS as standard equipment so we'll get them too.
-
Much nicer than predicted.
I might be softening my stance against water-cooled bikes.
-
They did not have a flange and this is a rub to a lot of folks. I know a guy who took a hammer and beat the flange down.
So he quite literally beat the flange off it :huh:
I hate to say this , that action is gonna cause the joint to break and will cause problems down the road , maybe not today , maybe not tomorrow ...
Dusty
-
^^^^ Absolutely.
-
http://www.morebikes.co.uk/scoop-2016-triumph-street-twin-revealed-beginners-bonnie-ripe-for-customising-easy-going-cool-2/ (http://www.morebikes.co.uk/scoop-2016-triumph-street-twin-revealed-beginners-bonnie-ripe-for-customising-easy-going-cool-2/)
Time to start saving my pennies for the new Thruxton R...
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s520/welfarebanks/Mobile%20Uploads/96D92D5B-5C58-45DA-BA2F-649CCEA552CF.jpg)
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s520/welfarebanks/Mobile%20Uploads/200C0A9A-F4AC-4AAC-9B2D-483CCCE515FF.jpg)
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s520/welfarebanks/Mobile%20Uploads/C9E1B226-C5D9-4198-835D-DAB2AFC6ECCC.jpg)
(http://www.morebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/convention-triumph-modeles-2016-dr-92979-3-pleinePage.jpg)
-
I know that the "buying world" is probably interested, but I don't think we need any more "big" anythings.
We've already supersized the motorcycle world into huge unwieldy gas-hog bikes ... I'm kind of hoping it'll tend the other way ....
Lannis
-
I know that the "buying world" is probably interested, but I don't think we need any more "big" anythings.
We've already supersized the motorcycle world into huge unwieldy gas-hog bikes ... I'm kind of hoping it'll tend the other way ....
Lannis
They have but label them as starter bikes
I know some don't want to hear this ,but, Scooters are now were the improvements in power and handling are being made in smaller cc bikes.
Those little 250-500 cc scooters are fast and handle good....plenty of aftermarket stuff to help improve both....Alan
-
The seat looks like a thrill a minute. Reminds me of the one that came on the Benelli Sei.
-
They have but label them as starter bikes
I know. That's how I know that the Marketeers are working on the part of the American Male Psyche that really sells motorcycles.
"These REAL BIG expensive bikes are what a REAL MAN buys. These little 500cc, 750cc, 900cc bikes are what Girls and guys with Small Private Parts buy! Get one if you're one of those, but graduate quick to a BIG BIKE!"
Some new buyers that I know practically quote these words .... I know where they got them ....
Lannis
-
Time to start saving my pennies for the new Thruxton R...
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s520/welfarebanks/Mobile%20Uploads/96D92D5B-5C58-45DA-BA2F-649CCEA552CF.jpg)
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:drool:
Depending on what the price is, the V7 Racer is in trouble.
Of course, there is that pesky chain to clean & lube, but, damn, I could overlook it on this bike!
-
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:drool:
Depending on what the price is, the V7 Racer is in trouble.
Of course, there is that pesky chain to clean & lube, but, damn, I could overlook it on this bike!
Follow my plan, you'll have shafts or belts on half your fleet, chains on the rest. :thumb:
-
Chain on my STRX needs cleaning and a lube job...hence bike has sat a month...waiting for rear lift, and spindles to arrive, and need to buy cleaner and take the time...but we will get there. Probably this weekend.
That Thrux is an eye popper, but give me a 400 pound bike anytime....
-
Really, dealing with a chain is that much of a big deal? Don't abuse them, they rarely break, lube once in a while and they will go a very long time with little fuss. No leaking seals ( seems like everyone gets at least one).
Chain maintenance is way overblown. Yeah, plenty of stories about someone who had a chain break. Never had one break, never knew anyone who did either.
Top quality does wonders for chain longevity. Cleaning and lubing a chain takes only a couple minutes, if that.
-
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:drool:
Depending on what the price is, the V7 Racer is in trouble.
Of course, there is that pesky chain to clean & lube, but, damn, I could overlook it on this bike!
They will sell all they make and probably not have leftovers.
-
Beautiful bike. Wonderful torque, but I bet if these bikes came onto the scene a few years earlier they would really sell quick. Hell, they'll sell quick anyways
-
That Thrux is an eye popper, but give me a 400 pound bike anytime....
I've got two, Duc Monster 796, V7R.
As for the Thruxton, I'll have to ride one to decide. Hopefully, I won't like it.
-
Brings a tear of pride to all Englishmen. Pity our steel industry is at the point of collapse and the Chinese will probably finish up supplying Triumph in the future.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34595475
-
The Thruxton does look tremendous.
But I'd probably wind up going for this:
(http://www.morebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/T120-Black-Matt-Graphite-Front-Quarter.jpg)
(http://www.morebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/T120-Black-Jet-Black-Rear-Quarterlores.jpg)
-
Wow. Just wow. These are ridiculously stunning bikes, finished with touches and on a level that I personally did not think Triumph was even capable of per se - and this from a giant Triumph fan. They remind me a small bit of the Ducati Sport Classic line of which I used to own a GT1000, only better, in fact. Wow. Just wow.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsdfx4fcvx.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsdfx4fcvx.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpshztzxzgi.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpshztzxzgi.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsdnxmajfl.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsdnxmajfl.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpski2ogpkx.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpski2ogpkx.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsx5nvj56x.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsx5nvj56x.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsr6weyzoz.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsr6weyzoz.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpscvktr1wg.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpscvktr1wg.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zps26v2ompn.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zps26v2ompn.jpeg.html)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsj0aztn2t.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsj0aztn2t.jpeg.html)
-
I believe that the correct terminology is "bitchin!"
Even if I'm not going to run down to the showroom to sign up- I'm very grateful that a company like Triumph has decided to up the ante considerably. Their track record of delivering on promises in the past ten years is formidable. I cannot imagine these machines as lackluster.
As for liquid cooling- my Aprilia Shiver cured me of that aversion. In this case, it's as tasteful as you could hope.
In regards to size- sigh- what you gonna do? In my recent trip to the mountains, my buddy and I were mightily grateful that we were on smaller bikes for all the tight stuff. At the same time, horsing the Bonnies around dirt/gravel parking lots was much easier. They weren't the perfect touring mounts (my return leg 260 miles against a stiff cross wind and dicing with semis proved that). However, where i live "handy" trumps "hefty".
-
The downside to owing a Hinckley Triumph is the owners forums are so boring. No major engine disasters, no self teaching mapping threads, all they discuss is what accessory to fit next and how much to pay for a service. I'll keep the Guzzi to stay being entertained here.
-
I hate to say this cause it might cause a poo storm on here, but THIS IS EXACTLY what MG SHOULD HAVE DONE WITH A BIGGER V7 line.
The V7 rapidly became their best seller. Just like the Bonnie heralded the neo-Triumph's growth.
Triumph has done exactly what I said MG should do with the V7.
They've got a 900cc entry level (price point/stripper) bike (Stone).
They've got a 1200cc mid-level bike with more power and dual discs (Special)
They've got a hot-rodded 1200cc bike with more power still and those dics, oh and an "R" version with Ohlins/Showa/Brembos (Racer).
BRAVO, WELL DONE.
That, plus "drama-free" ownership tends to build sales success.
It's funny by Molly just told me how much Hinkley Triumph ownership has become like the positives of Harley ownership - i.e. the owners just worry about accessories or paying for service, and RIDING THE BIKE - not the 25 ways to fix what the factory screwed up.
I LOVE my V7, and it's not going anywhere. But damnit I also love my Sporty for that reason, and I think I could love a Bonnie like that too.
I'm shocked how much I like these bikes!
Well done Triumph.
-
I'm really impressed, the last gen Bonnie's never did much for me,but these are really nice, they really lighten up the looks. Guzzi, time for that 1200 Stone!
-
Those "Monoblock" "Carbs" are a nice dash of nostalgia. :)
-
I went to bed last night dreaming not of sex but of the new Triumph Thruxton R. Wait, maybe that is sex!
These new Triumphs might just be the replacement for the Ducati GT1000 line that came to market too early (and too early for me). Used Ducati GT1000s are selling for crazy money, even more than these new Triumphs are likely to sell for.
I do not yet know where the new Triumphs will be made, but I imagine the engines will still be built in England while the rest of the bikes will still be put together in Thailand. No matter. These look stunning!
I heartily agree: Well done, Triumph!
Time for some posters on my bedroom wall (or at least wall paper on my computers!).
-
Chain on my STRX needs cleaning and a lube job...hence bike has sat a month...waiting for rear lift, and spindles to arrive, and need to buy cleaner and take the time...but we will get there. Probably this weekend.
That Thrux is an eye popper, but give me a 400 pound bike anytime....
You're over thinking it. Just wipe down the chain and ride.
-
Wow. Just wow. These are ridiculously stunning bikes, finished with touches and on a level that I personally did not think Triumph was even capable of per se - and this from a giant Triumph fan. They remind me a small bit of the Ducati Sport Classic line of which I used to own a GT1000, only better, in fact. Wow. Just wow.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsx5nvj56x.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsx5nvj56x.jpeg.html)
OMFG !!! I WANT A THRUXTON R !!! This is the bike I've been waiting for Triumph to build. For years !
-
More details to keep the saliva flowing.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2015/october/all-new-triumph-thruxton-revealed/
-
More details to keep the saliva flowing.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2015/october/all-new-triumph-thruxton-revealed/
To my previous point:
It’s hard to overstate the importance of these bikes to Triumph; they are going to make up around one third of the total sales of all the bikes the UK company sells around the world
-
More details to keep the saliva flowing.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2015/october/all-new-triumph-thruxton-revealed/
Whoa !!!
"the 1199cc engine is pushing out 81ftlb of torque at 3500rpm in the Thruxton state of tune"
:food:
-
Whoa !!!
"the 1199cc engine is pushing out 81ftlb of torque at 3500rpm in the Thruxton state of tune"
:food:
And I thought my Norge had pretty good torque (76.7 ft lbs at 5,500 rpm). The new Thruxton is going to be a stump puller!
-
5 New Bonnie's at very nice prices. Triumph is on a tear. That is only for the Bonneville line. Looks like Triumph has decided to move itself up in customer awareness.
-
According to that article, "Although no official prices have been announced yet, MCN expects the standard Thruxton to cost around £9,000, with the R coming in at around £12,000".
That translates to: $13,800 for the standard model & $18,391 for the R. They're really nice looking bikes but they're far from being for the budget minded rider. After 46 years of riding and buying a bunch of new & used bikes, I've given up buying new bikes unless they're deeply discounted. It will be interesting to see how well they will sell at these prices.
-
According to that article, "Although no official prices have been announced yet, MCN expects the standard Thruxton to cost around £9,000, with the R coming in at around £12,000".
That translates to: $13,800 for the standard model & $18,391 for the R. They're really nice looking bikes but they're far from being for the budget minded rider. After 46 years of riding and buying a bunch of new & used bikes, I've given up buying new bikes unless they're deeply discounted. It will be interesting to see how well they will sell at these prices.
No. It doesn't. Straight Pound/Dollar or Euro/Dollar exchange rate calculations are never correct for determining what a car or motorcycle will cost in The USA.
The OEMs sell motorcycles cheaper in the USA than in other markets.
Examples:
Stone 8760 Euro:
http://www.motoguzzi.it/motoguzzi/IT/it/moto/naked/V7-II/V7-Stone.html
Stone $8990 USD
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/v7-ii-stone-abs.html
-
No. It doesn't. Straight Pound/Dollar or Euro/Dollar exchange rate calculations are never correct for determining what a car or motorcycle will cost in The USA.
The OEMs sell motorcycles cheaper in the USA than in other markets.
Examples:
Stone 8760 Euro:
http://www.motoguzzi.it/motoguzzi/IT/it/moto/naked/V7-II/V7-Stone.html
Stone $8990 USD
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/motorcycles/v7-ii-stone-abs.html
Is the pricing on the new Bonnies in Euros or English pounds . Right now the Euro is worth $1.10 USD .
Dusty
-
I really like the new Thruxton, at least on paper. I went to a local dealers "Triumph Days" a few years back and test rode a Street Triple (nice but too cramped for my height and monkey arms) Speed Triple (fun, but maybe too fun) and the older Thruxton (kind of dull which surprised me). Seems like the new bike might bridge that gap. I still like the Speed Triple though.....and it's not even a case of male overcompensation and I know that no one needs that much power on tap, but if you don't ride over your head the bike was really a treat. The thing was just absolutely fun to ride and with a flyscreen the riding position would work great on a longer day trip. Remember the old two stroke 500cc MX bikes? No one needed those either but they were sure a blast to ride and on certain stretches of desert those long legs were nice. The new 450 four strokes aren't even close on the fun scale.
Also, I don't understand the chain complaints at all. On a street bike? It's just an excuse for some peaceful garage time once in a while. Use the time you'd normally spend setting the valves on your Guzzi ( devil emoji.....damn things aren't working for me again)
-
Is the pricing on the new Bonnies in Euros or English pounds . Right now the Euro is worth $1.10 USD .
Dusty
Dusty, in the article that was posted, they're in GBP (British Pounds). Current exchange rate is $1.53 to buy a GBP.
-
According to that article, "Although no official prices have been announced yet, MCN expects the standard Thruxton to cost around �9,000, with the R coming in at around �12,000".
That translates to: $13,800 for the standard model & $18,391 for the R. They're really nice looking bikes but they're far from being for the budget minded rider. After 46 years of riding and buying a bunch of new & used bikes, I've given up buying new bikes unless they're deeply discounted. It will be interesting to see how well they will sell at these prices.
Official prices have been put up in their site, saw them this morning. Price competitive and not on the high end.
New bikes starting at 8. If they bring this over to all their other lines, Triumph could really start a resurgence and sell a lot of bikes.
Plenty of people like Italian design but would rather have a fresh look with top notch assembly. If they can pull this off, more power to them, a great alternative to the big names.
Triumph was in dire straights a while back, they did something about it.
-
With the approval of my wife, I have started saving! (Yes, she knows it is for a motorcycle; she just doesn't know which one yet!)
I collect a small consultation fee from prospective new clients. It is not much money, and I have been turning people away rather than meeting with them and taking their money. I am going to start meeting with more prospects, collecting more consultation fees, and setting these bits and pieces aside. One day, I may have enough money stuffed in the cookie jar. If not, well, I can always borrow the rest!
-
Dusty, in the article that was posted, they're in GBP (British Pounds). Current exchange rate is $1.53 to buy a GBP.
Which has no bearing on where the OEMs choose to price their bikes in The USA market.
-
Official prices have been put up in their site, saw them this morning. Price competitive and not on the high end.
New bikes starting at 8. If they bring this over to all their other lines, Triumph could really start a resurgence and sell a lot of bikes.
Plenty of people like Italian design but would rather have a fresh look with top notch assembly. If they can pull this off, more power to them, a great alternative to the big names.
Triumph was in dire straights a while back, they did something about it.
I just went to the Triumph USA website and as of five minutes ago, there are no prices listed for either of the Thruxton models (that I can find). I also downloaded the brochure to see if there were any prices listed but there were none.
Where did you see the USA prices listed and how much were they?
-
Which has no bearing on where the OEMs choose to price their bikes in The USA market.
Rocker, you keep saying that BUT the mfgr. has to make a certain margin and the U.S. distribution arm also has to make X margin so there's a limit to how low they can/will price a product. They're not going to intentionally lose a bunch of money if they don't have to.
-
I hate to say this cause it might cause a poo storm on here, but THIS IS EXACTLY what MG SHOULD HAVE DONE WITH A BIGGER V7 line.
The V7 rapidly became their best seller. Just like the Bonnie heralded the neo-Triumph's growth.
Triumph has done exactly what I said MG should do with the V7.
:1:
Supposedly that R is going to sell for about $13k.
If you're using the numbers that I mentioned in the text last night, that was what I was hoping it would be -- I didn't see any US prices quoted anywhere.
BRAVO, WELL DONE.
That, plus "drama-free" ownership tends to build sales success.
:1: :1:
Well done Triumph.
:1: :1: :1:
I definitely see one of these new Triumphs in my garage in the future, hopefully the Thruxton R :drool:
Oh, and it looks like the Thruxton R torque numbers are even higher that what has been mentioned on some sites, Triumph's website is listed it at 120 NM, which is 88 lb*ft!
-
I just went to the Triumph USA website and as of five minutes ago, there are no prices listed for either of the Thruxton models (that I can find). I also downloaded the brochure to see if there were any prices listed but there were none.
Where did you see the USA prices listed and how much were they?
Email link they sent. Links to video but also another link there going to their USA site where the bikes were listed. I just glanced at the prices. I went back later, couldn't even get to the same page, not available. I was going to snapshot it and post it here.
-
Rocker, you keep saying that BUT the mfgr. has to make a certain margin and the U.S. distribution arm also has to make X margin so there's a limit to how low they can/will price a product. They're not going to intentionally lose a bunch of money if they don't have to.
Look for yourself on USA, British, and Italian web pages for motorcycles you like, and you will see what I'm talking about.
I'm not talking out my ass.
-
Look for yourself on USA, British, and Italian web pages for motorcycles you like, and you will see what I'm talking about.
I'm not talking out my ass.
Makes one wonder how much a new Ultra Classic costs in Rubles ? :grin: Yeah , the exchange rate is only one factor in pricing .
Dusty
-
Look for yourself on USA, British, and Italian web pages for motorcycles you like, and you will see what I'm talking about.
I'm not talking out my ass.
I didn't mean to imply that you were talking out of your ass. I am well aware that manufacturers (of most goods) will price the products differently from one country to another. My point was NOT that Triumph may price it differently in the USA (not in direct relation to the GBP price in the U.K.) but rather that Triumph could only price the product at "X" price below what they're selling them for in the U.K. because they only have so much margin to work with.
I'm not attempting to be confrontational with you or start an argument; I just think that based on the published U.K. price, these two models are likely to be what I consider to be a bit on the high side. Of course, they're 1200 cc bikes with ABS and other technology so I understand that not everybody will see it the same way that I view it.
BTW; From viewing the Triumph site, I see that there is a 2016 model year Thruxton, 865cc in addition to the new 1200 cc Thruxton and Thruxton R.
-
As an owner of a 2014 Triumph Scrambler and haven't taken it out on Sunday after being off of it for the past couple of months due to spending time on my new to me V7 special I have to say they really are easy bikes to like. So smooth and effortless and such character imo with no fuss. I'm really digging the Street Twin myself but for anyone who is on the fence for a Triumph I can say with confidence go for it as you'll have no regrets , I sure don't! :bike-037:
-
Look for yourself on USA, British, and Italian web pages for motorcycles you like, and you will see what I'm talking about.
I'm not talking out my ass.
:1: :1: :1:
Not even remotely comparable.
Incidentally, if my ass could talk it would say, PLEASE PUT ME ON ONE OF THESE BIKES. :thumb:
-
I didn't mean to imply that you were talking out of your ass. I am well aware that manufacturers (of most goods) will price the products differently from one country to another. My point was NOT that Triumph may price it differently in the USA (not in direct relation to the GBP price in the U.K.) but rather that Triumph could only price the product at "X" price below what they're selling them for in the U.K. because they only have so much margin to work with.
I'm not attempting to be confrontational with you or start an argument; I just think that based on the published U.K. price, these two models are likely to be what I consider to be a bit on the high side. Of course, they're 1200 cc bikes with ABS and other technology so I understand that not everybody will see it the same way that I view it.
BTW; From viewing the Triumph site, I see that there is a 2016 model year Thruxton, 865cc in addition to the new 1200 cc Thruxton and Thruxton R.
I agree that it will be at the top end of the retro bikes. If the 12000 Pounds in The UK is correct, that would work out to about 15000 USD, based on how several other motorcycles are priced between UK and USA.
That would price them out of the market. I really believe that the Thruxton R will be "Thirteen-something". $13490. Whatever. It will still be at the top of the retro standard market, but the spec sheet should justify it.
That should still get finance buyers into the bike for a reasonable down payment and under $200/mo.
Based on what I'm seeing and reading, these "all new" Bonneville variants will be grand-slam home-runs.
I'm also reading that Scrambler, America, and Speedmaster won't see any of these upgrades until at least 2017.
-
According to that article, "Although no official prices have been announced yet, MCN expects the standard Thruxton to cost around �9,000, with the R coming in at around �12,000".
that means that, at least in Europe,
this
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsdfx4fcvx.jpeg)
will cost more or less like this
(http://moto.zombdrive.com/images/moto-guzzi-moto-guzzi-griso-1200-8v-9.jpg)
Uhmmm... :huh:
-
Before you colonials get your knickers in a twist over prices who's to say we won't import them to the US (my Tiger Sport isn't). I heard a rumor from a factory source (40 miles from my home) that they are for British Commonwealth countries only. That will teach you for getting all independent minded. :wink:
-
Before you colonials get your knickers in a twist over prices who's to say we won't import them to the US (my Tiger Sport isn't). I heard a rumor from a factory source (40 miles from my home) that they are for British Commonwealth countries only. That will teach you for getting all independent minded. :wink:
:grin: Well, no offense to you fine redcoats but as is known, the British can't keep their hands out of much, especially anything resembling a dollar. :thumb: so I suspect they'll arrive on these shores soon. Another key factor is they enlisted American design help in producing some of the factory customs shown at the reveal yesterday.
-
Before you colonials get your knickers in a twist over prices who's to say we won't import them to the US (my Tiger Sport isn't). I heard a rumor from a factory source (40 miles from my home) that they are for British Commonwealth countries only. That will teach you for getting all independent minded. :wink:
Besides the very concept being laughable from analysis of their sales trends in the US there's one other reason that's a ridiculous statement...
... The T120/T120 Black, Thruxton/Thruxton R are already listed as models on the US website. :kiss:
-
:grin: Well, no offense to you fine redcoats but as is known, the British can't keep their hands out of much, especially anything resembling a dollar. :thumb: so I suspect they'll arrive on these shores soon. Another key factor is they enlisted American design help in producing some of the factory customs shown at the reveal yesterday.
Next you will be telling me that the Bonneville salt flats wasn't named after a British motorcycle.
-
Next you will be telling me that the Bonneville salt flats wasn't named after a British motorcycle.
No , but the Ford Thunderbird was named after a Triumph motorbike :shocked: :bike-037:
Dusty
-
They will be imported into the US. I feel it in my wallet!
Already saving for a Thruxton R, in red!
-
Disclaimer . Not an engineer .
Water cooling is probably necessary to reliably achieve the kind of HP and torque figures Triumph is getting from this motor . Or at least it simplifies the job . Higher compression generates more heat , much easier to keep temps in the desired range and pass emission regs . They are probably also allowing for aftermarket hot rodding , wonder how well these motors will respond to basic tweaks ? How much ya wanna bet the aftermarket is already gearing up with exhaust systems , maps , etc . 114 HP and 100 LBS FT of torque at 6,000 RPMs anyone ?
Dusty
-
2012 and earlier Street Triples and Speed Triples allowed you to use TuneECU to load maps, turn off the SAI, etc. That changed in 2013. The current air-cooled Bonnie line can be manipulated as well. I bet Triumph shuts it down on the new model.
If they are smart they will partner with 3rd party makers ala Can-Am and offer tuned exhausts and other performance goodies.
-
Next you will be telling me that the Bonneville salt flats wasn't named after a British motorcycle.
Molly, it's just no use trying to talk reason to these heathens...
Even though I live in the Boston area, where the yoke of British Oppression was thrown off. Even though I live in the town that fielded Glover's regiment of marines- one of General Washington's elite guards and the crew who rowed him across the Delaware to attack Trenton in 1776- I would NEVER be so crude and base as to suggest that you ki$$ my Yankee a--. No, sir, for I remain, first and foremost, a gentleman. :angel:
-
2012 and earlier Street Triples and Speed Triples allowed you to use TuneECU to load maps, turn off the SAI, etc. That changed in 2013. The current air-cooled Bonnie line can be manipulated as well. I bet Triumph shuts it down on the new model.
Interesting . Of course the stubborn smart guys always seem to find a way , dunno . Maybe the factory will build a hot rod using this platform and are planning ahead . Guessing the HP and torque figures are achieved with an under stressed engine . Dang , a roots type blower would wake it up , Taz want go VROOM VROOM :grin:
Dusty
-
Even though I live in the Boston area, where the yoke of British Oppression was thrown off. Even though I live in the town that fielded Glover's regiment of marines- one of General Washington's elite guards and the crew who rowed him across the Delaware to attack Trenton in 1776- I would NEVER be so crude and base as to suggest that you ki$$ my Yankee a--. No, sir, for I remain, first and foremost, a gentleman. :angel:
It is just that sort of one finger up to authority attitude that got us squabbling in the first place. :laugh:
Here's a list of the 39 steps to becoming a British gentleman. I hope we have some common ground here.
1. Negotiates airports with ease
2. Never lets a door slam in someone's face
3. Can train a dog and a rose
4. Is aware that facial hair is temporary, but a tattoo is permanent
5. Knows when not to say anything
6. Wears his learning lightly
7. Possesses at least one well-made dark suit, one tweed suit, and a dinner jacket
8. Avoids lilac socks and polishes his shoes
9. Turns his mobile phone to silent at dinner
10. Carries house guests' luggage to their rooms
11. Tips staff in a private house and a gamekeeper
12. Says his name when being introduced
13. Breaks a relationship face-to-face
14. Is unafraid to speak the truth
15. Knows when to clap
16. Arrives at a meeting five minutes before the agreed time
17. Is good with waiters
18. Has two tricks to entertain children
19. Can undo a bra with one hand
20. Sings lustily in church
21. Is not a vegetarian
22. Can sail a boat and ride a horse
23. Knows the difference between Glenfiddich and Glenda Jackson
24. Never kisses and tells
25. Cooks an omelette to die for
26. Can prepare a one-match bonfire
27. Seeks out his hostess at a party
28. Knows when to use an emoji
29. Would never own a Chihuahua
30. Has read Pride and Prejudice
31. Can tie his own bow ties
32. Would not go to Puerto Rico
33. Knows the difference between a rook and a crow
34. Sandals? No. Never
35. Wears a rose, not a carnation
36. Swats flies and rescues spiders
37. Demonstrates that making love is neither a race nor a competition
38. Never blow dries his hair
39. Knows that there is always an exception to a rule.
I sent a copy to my American neighbours (honestly 1/2 mile from my house) https://www.harlaxton.ac.uk/manor/
-
Molly, this is a great list and Triumph should hand this out to each and every new owner. :thumb:
Having a surname of Reynolds, I know there is in me some fine British blood in me somewhere. Even said, I think you maybe forgot "Not overly concerned with dental hygiene."
-
Well , I got 2,4,29, and 39 right :laugh:
Dusty
-
Molly, that is a great list. Everyone should try to follow those guidelines (well, most of them anyway).
I wonder if there is room to add something about owning a British motor vehicle or bike...
By the way, I think I am going to place a deposit on a new Thruxton R next week. I am already speaking with my local dealership. George Latus is still away at the launch, but his people should be ready to take deposits and start placing orders next week. Apparently, Triumph is interested in gauging the interest in the new bikes so they can plan this winter's production accordingly. If all works out well, we should see the new bikes here in the colonies by next April.
-
One thing that I do not understand is the reference to never going to Puerto Rico. I enjoyed the list.
Walt
-
One thing that I do not understand is the reference to never going to Puerto Rico. I enjoyed the list.
Walt
I guess a British gentleman must go to the BVI instead.
-
that means that, at least in Europe,
this
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsdfx4fcvx.jpeg)
will cost more or less like this
(http://moto.zombdrive.com/images/moto-guzzi-moto-guzzi-griso-1200-8v-9.jpg)
Uhmmm... :huh:
No comparison. One is svelte, classic and looks 200 pounds lighter than the other. The other is a beast, hunkering bruiser. Not like you'd go into a showroom and start comparison shopping. You'd either want one or the other and maybe both but not want the Griso and choose the Triumph as a comparison alternative.
-
If this has already been posted, sorry. I attempted to gloss thru this thread to see if similar info had been posted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have taken notes. I stopped by our local Triumph dealer this afternoon. Carl (owner) had just returned from Triumph dealer meeting in London. Here's what I (think) I remembered from the conversation.
Street Twin 900cc
Should be in showrooms Jan '16
T120 1200cc (two versions)
March/April '16 timeframe
Thruxton R
April '16
Standard Thruxton
May '16
Pricing - the Street Twin should cost approx. what a Bonnie standard costs today. T120s in the $12k range. The Thruxton R model in the mid-$14's. However, with lots of options, one could drive the price above $16k.
Again, don't hold me to this ..... I was half listening, and at the same time felt like I was interrupting their lunch!
Re existing models .... the dealer already has some 865cc models in stock that are 2016 models. Most likely, the 865 bikes will come in the same color schemes as the 2015 models.
I'm thinking that Triumph should do some 'end of an era' 865 bikes, much like BMW did with the last of the airheads. After all, the 790/865 Bonnies and derivatives had a 15 year run, almost unheard of in today's motorcycle marketplace.
-
The bike does look pretty darn nice in the pics. The motor doesn't appear to be anywhere near 1200cc! And they appear to have done a fine job of hiding the radiator. Triumph may have a big winner on their hands.
I like it, and I like several of the retro bikes, and cars out today, but is it just me, or do others sense something wrong with putting so much cache into harking back to the good old days?
For me, it feels a little sad, and empty that we as humanity are turning back to the "golden age" of whatever. Have we run out of the ability to natural evolve and create? Like music, bike/car design seems to be stuck. It either goes off, on a wire trying to blaze new ground, and by new, I mean sounding/looking like most everything else done over the last 6 years, or reverting back to the "good old days."
Not making a big statement, just wondering out loud.
-
The bike does look pretty darn nice in the pics. The motor doesn't appear to be anywhere near 1200cc! And they appear to have done a fine job of hiding the radiator. Triumph may have a big winner on their hands.
I like it, and I like several of the retro bikes, and cars out today, but is it just me, or do others sense something wrong with putting so much cache into harking back to the good old days?
For me, it feels a little sad, and empty that we as humanity are turning back to the "golden age" of whatever. Have we run out of the ability to natural evolve and create? Like music, bike/car design seems to be stuck. It either goes off, on a wire trying to blaze new ground, and by new, I mean sounding/looking like most everything else done over the last 6 years, or reverting back to the "good old days."
Not making a big statement, just wondering out loud.
Hi, Chad ... loved your thoughts on the 'good old days.' I've often had similar thoughts, and I can understand your concern re whether we can 'get it on' and move into the future of bikes. Here's my take on it. The bike manufacturers have actually moved into the future ..... look at bikes like BMW's S1000RR, as well as the other 175+hp bikes from KTM, Kaw, Honda, and the other mfgs. However, at the same time, these manufacturers are acknowledging that there are a bunch of us 'old guard' that really liked the looks and ergonomics of the bikes from when we began riding. Bikes like Triumphs and BSAs, and others. And they've decided, based on motorcycle demographics (yep, we're all getting older!) that they'd build a class of bikes that appealed to (a) us old dudes that appreciate machines that look like the current and upcoming Triumphs, and (b) that might also appeal to the younger dudes who like things from the past.
I know, at my age, I'm probably not a candidate for a monster ADV bike, nor a supersport machine. But I do feel like I have one more bike purchase left ..... and it may be either a new Triumph retro, or (if I'm feeling cheap) a retro Honda CB1100, which at current prices is a lot of bike for the $$$. I don't think it'll be another Guzzi, though they are also lovely machines. I feel like I've paid my 'Guzzi dues,' having put nearly 75,000 miles on the Sport and Griso over the past 5 years. So, it'll be off to something else.
I'm buying something new this spring. I still own and ride my lovely Guzzi 1200 Sport, and hope to do so until I have to quit riding (long time away, hopefully.) The Griso beat the crap out of me, so she is gone. The old BMW R100GS is still in the stable, and still rideable.
Regards,
Bob
-
Design trends are cyclical. I believe this has always been true.
I personally think the retro trend is not about nostalgia, but is about organic and relatable design. About natural, balanced, clean, and familiar shapes.
It's a backlash to the cold, inorganic shapes that many find less relatable.
-
Design trends are cyclical. I believe this has always been true.
I personally think the retro trend is not about nostalgia, but is about organic and relatable design. About natural, balanced, clean, and relatable shapes.
It's a backlash to the cold, inorganic shapes that many find less relatable.
BINGO!!
-
.... and that too!
Bob
-
Design trends are cyclical. I believe this has always been true.
I personally think the retro trend is not about nostalgia, but is about organic and relatable design. About natural, balanced, clean, and familiar shapes.
It's a backlash to the cold, inorganic shapes that many find less relatable.
Exactly. When me own mum, nowhere near a motorcycle afficionado, asks me, "Why do all new motorcycles these days look like flying machines?" then yeah, it makes perfect sense to me that folks would want something familiar and simple.
-
No comparison. One is svelte...
Several things can be compared. For example brakes, forks and rear shocks, to estabilish what the maker sells for that price.
-
I love the look of the left side of the engine. It reminds me of my 78
-
Pricing - the Street Twin should cost approx. what a Bonnie standard costs today. T120s in the $12k range. The Thruxton R model in the mid-$14's. However, with lots of options, one could drive the price above $16k.
That sounds reasonable.
And it sorta goes with what Dogwalker is saying in competitive pricing.
-
I like it, and I like several of the retro bikes, and cars out today, but is it just me, or do others sense something wrong with putting so much cache into harking back to the good old days?
For me, it feels a little sad, and empty that we as humanity are turning back to the "golden age" of whatever. Have we run out of the ability to natural evolve and create? Like music, bike/car design seems to be stuck. It either goes off, on a wire trying to blaze new ground, and by new, I mean sounding/looking like most everything else done over the last 6 years, or reverting back to the "good old days."
Not making a big statement, just wondering out loud.
Triumph are tapping into the retro cool look which is fashionable with young affluent riders, Belstaff are doing the same.
For these riders it's first time round for this type of bike. They want reliability coupled with a style that makes them feel special when riding. Which is exactly how I felt when I started riding bikes, albeit with long hair, greasy denims and badges all over my leather jacket. People noticed you and that was cool, at least to me. A lot of Harley riders do the same thing but go over the top with trying too hard so they become a bit of a joke.
Not everyone wants to tog up in cordura and head for the hills or dress like Valentino and ride arse in the air at 150mph. There is a middle way that get's it's cues from a simpler less gadget strewn era and I'm all for it.
-
There are plenty of new, more "bug-like" modern designs out there. These retro bikes are but a small segment of the models. If you feel bad about it, go buy something else. IMO, the '60-70's was the pinnacle of car and bike design.
-
And by design I hope you mean esthetics... If so I might agree.
-
And by design I hope you mean esthetics... If so I might agree.
Both. :grin:
-
There are plenty of new, more "bug-like" modern designs out there. These retro bikes are but a small segment of the models. If you feel bad about it, go buy something else. IMO, the '60-70's was the pinnacle of car and bike design.
And by design I hope you mean esthetics... If so I might agree.
:1:
To clarify, I would stay late 60's to early 70's was the pinnacle of car design ( aesthetics ), while on the motorcycle side of things, I'd say 50's to mid 70's. Of course, the British bikes, by and large, looked very much the same aesthetically from the late 50's through the 70's, the Japanese pretty much copied that look, eventually adding two cylinders. There were some very good looking small single cylinder bikes coming out if Italy in the 50's. Both Moto Guzzi and Ducati were making some very good looking twins in the early 70's, but Ducatis got kind of ugly in the mid 70's, with the 860GT.
BMW's looked pretty much the same from the early 50's until the /5's debut in 1970. This was, IMHO, a very good looking design, although the /5, is arguably also a good looking design, albeit, not as good looking as a Guzzi loop.
Cars started getting pretty ugly by the mid 70's, esp. with the US mandated big bumpers.
-
Both. :grin:
If by that you're lamenting the loss of chrome cylinder bores, weak cable actuated brakes, points ignitions sure to family without frequent attention, etc. Then I have to disagree with you.
Modern bikes (retros included) are generally more efficient, capable, and robust than any now antiques were when they were new.
Your Ambo or Jay's /5 are beautiful, but they can't hold a candle to their equivalents today.
Functional design has not stood still and that's a good thing.
-
Both. :grin:
Functional design has not stood still and that's a good thing.
:1:
The early days of emissions controls on cars while still have carburetors was a dark time performance wise, but, the advent of electronic fuel injection was able to overcome that. Also, you definitely have to admit that modern cars are way better from a corrosion resistance standpoint. In the North East in the 70's cars would start to rust out in as little as 6 or 7 years (I'm talking with rust through HOLES). Now, there are lots of 15-20 year old cars without any outwardly visible rust. With advances in both synthetic lubricants and the design of the power trains themselves, modern cars require far less maintenance. Oil change intervals are much longer. Spark plugs last much, much longer. Computer-managed fuel injection and ignition require no "tune ups." Cars used to require frequent "tune ups". Now, for the most part, it is just fluid changes, brakes and tires for the first 100-150k miles. Speaking of miles, in the 70's, a car was considered worn out by 100k miles. Now, that number is more like 200k miles.
Motorcycles have also benefited from these advances. Aside from valve adjustments, and chain maintenance (for those with chains), they require less maintenance, and last longer as well.
In the 70's many motorcycles were considered worn out by the time they had 20k miles on them. Yes, there were some stand outs, like BMWs. Now, most motorcycles, with proper maintenance, can much further, some go over 200k (Gold Wings, VFRs, BMWs).
-
Cars started getting pretty ugly by the mid 70's, esp. with the US mandated big bumpers.
Speaking just aesthetically enough though there are plenty of modern cars with beautiful designs, not all of which are retro.
The current WRX and XV are pleasing shapes, as is the Focus RSb and ST for examples. The Jaguar F-Tyoes are down right beautiful. Good about assume Alfas, hell even the Tesla.
On the truck side the Tacoma, some Fords (especially the Raptor), the Jeep Wrangler (ok, arguably retro in some ways, maybe tech more than aesthetics lol).
And designs aren't all boring either. My Juke (I should say Kelli's Juke) is very polarizing, but it's organic. Most love it or hate it, some call it a frog or gator, but it's got lots of natural lines and curves, some unexpected for a car.
-
The early days of emissions controls on cars while still have carburetors was a dark time performance wise, but, the advent of electronic fuel injection was able to overcome that. Also, you definitely have to admit that modern cars are way better from a corrosion resistance standpoint. In the North East in the 70's cars would start to rust out in as little as 6 or 7 years (I'm talking with rust through HOLES). Now, there are lots of 15-20 year old cars without any outwardly visible rust. With advances in both synthetic lubricants and the design of the power trains themselves, modern cars require far less maintenance. Oil change intervals are much longer. Spark plugs last much, much longer. Cars used to require frequent "tune ups". Now, for the most part, it is just fluid changes, brakes and tires for the first 100-150k miles. Speaking of miles, in the 70's, a car was considered worn out by 100k miles. Now, that number is more like 200k miles.
Yup, this...
-
I love the look of the left side of the engine. It reminds me of my 78
Your 78 what ? Oh ... RPM record :huh:
Dusty
-
Speaking just aesthetically enough though there are plenty of modern cars with beautiful designs, not all of which are retro.
Absolutely. The 80's weren't just a dark time for performance, but, Italian supercars aside, most cars were boring boxes with ruler-straight lines and sharp corners.
There are definitely some beautiful designs today.
-
If by that you're lamenting the loss of chrome cylinder bores, weak cable actuated brakes, points ignitions sure to family without frequent attention, etc. Then I have to disagree with you.
Modern bikes (retros included) are generally more efficient, capable, and robust than any now antiques were when they were new.
Your Ambo or Jay's /5 are beautiful, but they can't hold a candle to their equivalents today.
Functional design has not stood still and that's a good thing.
The chrome bores were/are only an issue if the bike sat for long periods of time. If used regularly, the problem doesn't occur, at least not nearly as often. It's really only been an issue in the '90s onwards since so many "barn" bikes are being resurrected after having sat idle for decades.
Drum brakes can be made to work very well - maybe not as well as modern discs, but far from "weak". Of course, if one has no grip strength, then "juice brakes" are better. :wink:
In the last 8k miles I've ridden my '71 Ambassador, I've checked the point gap exactly once. Needed no adjustment even though the last time it was checked was 5k miles prior. A tiny dab of Bosch Distributor Grease on the points cam works wonders. Not sure what that has to do with "family". :laugh:
More efficient? Depends on how you look at it. Both of my Ambos do 50 mpg and use no oil. Lower cost oil to boot and no filter to change.
Capable? Again depends on your definition of capable. Ambos were used as fully dressed touring bikes and police bikes when new. Police departments must have thought they were plenty capable since they chose them over 1200 cc Harleys. They were not used as a fashion accessory or commuter bike like so many modern V7s seem to be. :evil:
Robust? You've got to be kidding me? Every piece of the original V750 is way overbuilt (except maybe the headlight switch and fuse block :wink:). Almost no plastic, just steel and alloy. Nearly every part can be repaired/remanufactured. They were built to a high standard, not down to a price point.
-
The chrome bores were/are only an issue if the bike sat for long periods of time. If used regularly, the problem doesn't occur, at least not nearly as often. It's really only been an issue in the '90s onwards since so many "barn" bikes are being resurrected after having sat idle for decades.
Drum brakes can be made to work very well - maybe not as well as modern discs, but far from "weak". Of course, if one has no grip strength, then "juice brakes" are better. :wink:
In the last 8k miles I've ridden my '71 Ambassador, I've checked the point gap exactly once. Needed no adjustment even though the last time it was checked was 5k miles prior. A tiny dab of Bosch Distributor Grease on the points cam works wonders. Not sure what that has to do with "family". :laugh:
More efficient? Depends on how you look at it. Both of my Ambos do 50 mpg and use no oil. Lower cost oil to boot and no filter to change.
Capable? Again depends on your definition of capable. Ambos were used as fully dressed touring bikes and police bikes when new. Police departments must have thought they were plenty capable since they chose them over 1200 cc Harleys. They were not used as a fashion accessory or commuter bike like so many modern V7s seem to be. :evil:
Robust? You've got to be kidding me? Every piece of the original V750 is way overbuilt (except maybe the headlight switch and fuse block :wink:). Almost no plastic, just steel and alloy. Nearly every part can be repaired/remanufactured. They were built to a high standard, not down to a price point.
I understand your skewed perspective because of your passion and work. But cherry picking how things can be improved or explaining why they broke over time or for differences in materials have lead to lower costs or lighter weights doesn't change the well documented fact throughout the industries I mentioned that motors/vehicles are better built, more efficient (power vs fuel consumption and emissions), and routinely last much longer with less intervention than they did decades ago.
-
that means that, at least in Europe,
this
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsdfx4fcvx.jpeg)
will cost more or less like this
(http://moto.zombdrive.com/images/moto-guzzi-moto-guzzi-griso-1200-8v-9.jpg)
Uhmmm... :huh:
Lovely bikes, this being the "money side" photo of Griso.(I'll get me one, some day day..)
That said, both sides of Trumpet are freakin' gorgeous !
-
I understand your skewed perspective because of your passion and work. But cherry picking how things can be improved or explaining why they broke over time or for differences in materials have lead to lower costs or lighter weights doesn't change the well documented fact throughout the industries I mentioned that motors/vehicles are better built, more efficient (power vs fuel consumption and emissions), and routinely last much longer with less intervention than they did decades ago.
By writing "Your Ambo or Jay's /5 are beautiful, but they can't hold a candle to their equivalents today." you effectively narrowed the comparison not from the auto/motorcycle industry as a whole, but to a comparison of the original V750 to the modern V7 series.
I'm not the only one with a "skewed perspective". Have you ever even ridden a /5 or Ambassador? Yeah, thought not...
-
By writing "Your Ambo or Jay's /5 are beautiful, but they can't hold a candle to their equivalents today." you effectively narrowed the comparison not from the auto/motorcycle industry as a whole, but to a comparison of the original V750 to the modern V7 series.
I'm not the only one with a "skewed perspective". Have you ever even ridden a /5 or Ambassador? Yeah, thought not...
No, it was just a relevant example.
And yes I've ridden a /5 though I didn't ride an Ambo yet I've ridden a right shift V7 sport. I've also owned some vintage bikes like a /7.
You assume too much.
Regardless you can't compare them to the modern equivalents as the modern are so much more capable it's laughable for the originals.
-
All I was saying earlier was that there IS a market for NEW bikes and cars that remind us of those we grew up with, and there's nothing wrong with that. In MY opinion, the NEW V7's, Triumphs, Ducatis or Dodge Challenger, Corvette, Mustang, etc. don't come close to the originals. I'd much rather ride and wrench on my '74 V7 Sport or '71 Ambo. Not everyone get's that.
We've beat this into the ground before. Let's just agree to disagree.
-
hmmmm, this all looks soooooo familiar. A high performing water cooled retro bike
mmmhhhh, where have I seen it? Triumph?
hmmmm
(http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/1998-triumph-thunderbird-sport-1.jpg)
-
I don't know why, but retro designs simply appeal to me, whether we are talking motorcycles or appliances. I want modern features, but an old look.
The Triumph Modern Classics fit that bill for me (and so, too, do the MG V7s to a degree). Appliances? We are ordering all Big Chill appliances for our new cabin "remodel". For example:
(http://bigchill.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bigchill_3q_beachblue.jpg)
Aesthetically, retro designs just looks "right" to me. Maybe it's my age...
-
I don't know why, but retro designs simply appeal to me, whether we are talking motorcycles or appliances. I want modern features, but an old look.
The Triumph Modern Classics fit that bill for me (and so, too, do the MG V7s to a degree). Appliances? We are ordering all Big Chill appliances for our new cabin "remodel". For example:
(http://bigchill.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bigchill_3q_beachblue.jpg)
Aesthetically, retro designs just looks "right" to me. Maybe it's my age...
:1:
:thumb:
-
In MY opinion, the NEW V7's, Triumphs, Ducatis or Dodge Challenger, Corvette, Mustang, etc. don't come close to the originals. I'd much rather ride and wrench on my '74 V7 Sport or '71 Ambo. Not everyone get's that.
And I was just differentiating between LIKE PREFERENCE (which I don't fault anyone for) and the objective facts with regards to actual performance/capability/longevity.
For instance the original Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, Charger etc. don't come "close" the the originals, they far surpass them in every measurable mechanical/performance metric possible.
Hp, torque, brakes, speed, handling, etc
I'm not arguing aesthetics, that's subjective. Like what you like. Hell, prefer to own, wrench, and ride what you want, no biggie.
But disagreeing on those measurable metrics is putting your head in the sand.
-
USA Pricing:
http://www.eurosportcycle.com/
...The first bikes to arrive will be the new 900 Street Twin variety starting with a sales price of $8,700 for Black, and $8,950 for all other colors. They are to hit our store in January.
"But I want the 1200 cc motor," you say. Those are slated to come next as the T120 Black and T120 ($11,500 for the Black, $11,750 for Matte Gray and Cinder Red, and $12,000 for all two tones) in March.
The Thruxton R is then set for April with a price tag of $14,500, and bringing up the rear will be the Thruxton in May for $12,500 in Black and $12,750 in Green or White...
-
A good example of how far things have come.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/corvette-vs-camry-comparison-test.html
Camry vs 66 Vett. The Vett does look a lot more fun, hard to get the rear end out on a Camry.
-
No, it was just a relevant example.
And yes I've ridden a /5 though I didn't ride an Ambo yet I've ridden a right shift V7 sport. I've also owned some vintage bikes like a /7.
You assume too much.
Regardless you can't compare them to the modern equivalents as the modern are so much more capable it's laughable for the originals.
Kev. -
You're no more of an expert or authority on this subject than Charlie is, or than me, as far as that goes, so all of your "you can't compare" and "laughable" and "skewed" is just as applicable to you as it is to anyone else.
Modern cars go farther between services and have longer road life than the older ones, but we'll have to wait and see on the bikes, because I don't see many modern Guzzis getting ready to do the multiple hundreds of thousands of miles of service that many of the old ones have done.
If I had a 1978 SP from new, I doubt if I would be fighting soft cams, disintegrating mirrors, ungreased bearings, flaking tappets, dodgy electronics, leaking spokes, and melting headlights that I've seen in just 40,000 miles of service. That data is anecdotal, of course, but it's real.
Just to prove it's real, I'm considering dumping the "21st century technology" that is supposedly so many light-years ahead of the Stone Age motorcycles that actually work for me, and going to back to the 1970s or 80s for the technology I trust my recreation, travel, and life to.
I've got 150,000 miles on various Guzzis (4 carbed and 2 FI), and zeroing in on .5M miles on bikes overall, so it's not like I'm just ignorant of the benefits of ECUs and FIs and all that stuff. But in the real world I live in and have to live with, a rebuildable steel and alloy motorcycle with proven designs invented in 1910 for its components may be the better answer than the plastic, electronic bikes that look so good on paper. Yes, they go faster and might go around corners faster, but sometimes out on the long highway, that isn't so important.....
Lannis
-
A good example of how far things have come.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/corvette-vs-camry-comparison-test.html
Camry vs 66 Vett. The Vett does look a lot more fun, hard to get the rear end out on a Camry.
Yep. Funny how things move forward, despite our memories.
I love the old Vette's style, but would want the new Vette's running gear.
-
Kev. -
You're no more of an expert or authority on this subject than Charlie is, or than me, as far as that goes, so all of your "you can't compare" and "laughable" and "skewed" is just as applicable to you as it is to anyone else.
That would be true if I was basing my statements only on personal and professional experience, which I am not.
I'm basing it on trends in service and repair, industry studies, and articles I've read over the years from Forbes to the NYT, to Edmund's or Motor Age etc.
You've got Google, have fun. I need not debate the point further.
The Corvette Camry article someone linked tells part of the story. It leaves out how ridiculous a murdering the Vette would get from a 2015 Vette.
-
Kev. -
You're no more of an expert or authority on this subject than Charlie is, or than me, as far as that goes, so all of your "you can't compare" and "laughable" and "skewed" is just as applicable to you as it is to anyone else.
Modern cars go farther between services and have longer road life than the older ones, but we'll have to wait and see on the bikes, because I don't see many modern Guzzis getting ready to do the multiple hundreds of thousands of miles of service that many of the old ones have done.
If I had a 1978 SP from new, I doubt if I would be fighting soft cams, disintegrating mirrors, ungreased bearings, flaking tappets, dodgy electronics, leaking spokes, and melting headlights that I've seen in just 40,000 miles of service. That data is anecdotal, of course, but it's real.
Just to prove it's real, I'm considering dumping the "21st century technology" that is supposedly so many light-years ahead of the Stone Age motorcycles that actually work for me, and going to back to the 1970s or 80s for the technology I trust my recreation, travel, and life to.
I've got 150,000 miles on various Guzzis (4 carbed and 2 FI), and zeroing in on .5M miles on bikes overall, so it's not like I'm just ignorant of the benefits of ECUs and FIs and all that stuff. But in the real world I live in and have to live with, a rebuildable steel and alloy motorcycle with proven designs invented in 1910 for its components may be the better answer than the plastic, electronic bikes that look so good on paper. Yes, they go faster and might go around corners faster, but sometimes out on the long highway, that isn't so important.....
Lannis
:thumb:
-
I'm basing it on trends in service and repair, industry studies, and articles I've read over the years from Forbes to the NYT, to Edmund's or Motor Age etc.
You've got Google, have fun. I need not debate the point further.
If you really think that Forbes articles and performance graphs and Google searches are going to tell me how much better a 2015 motorcycle is than a 1985 for what I need, then I'm afraid that your perspective as a professional technical writer has "skewed" your opinion quite a bit too. That's only a fraction of what makes something "better", not by any means the whole story.
Lannis
-
USA Pricing:
http://www.eurosportcycle.com/
...The first bikes to arrive will be the new 900 Street Twin variety starting with a sales price of $8,700 for Black, and $8,950 for all other colors. They are to hit our store in January.
"But I want the 1200 cc motor," you say. Those are slated to come next as the T120 Black and T120 ($11,500 for the Black, $11,750 for Matte Gray and Cinder Red, and $12,000 for all two tones) in March.
The Thruxton R is then set for April with a price tag of $14,500, and bringing up the rear will be the Thruxton in May for $12,500 in Black and $12,750 in Green or White...
$14,500 is a bit rich, but I am placing a deposit anyway. No motorcycle has tugged at my heart strings the way this new Thruxton R has, other than the Norton Commando (which is not readily available in the USA, and which is not known to be be nearly as reliable as a Triumph) and the Ducati SportClassic (which they no longer sell, and which can cost just as much used as a new Thruxton R).
-
I'm going to side with Lannis on this one. <snapping suspenders> While I certainly appreciate the modern technology, when it goes udders skyward.. and it will, eventually.. it's horrendously expensive to fix IF the particular electronic gizmo is still being made 15 years down the road. I have a Sync module issue in my '12 Ford.. just out of warranty, and $650 to replace. A low production Italian motorcycle in a few years? I'll stick with Lannis' old SP.. :smiley:
-
Your 78 what ? Oh ... RPM record :huh:
Dusty
78 bonneville, that bland look of all the current versions is what I didn't like about the current models. That swirl to me makes it look more like a triumph motor.
-
I'm going to side with Lannis on this one. <snapping suspenders> While I certainly appreciate the modern technology, when it goes udders skyward.. and it will, eventually.. it's horrendously expensive to fix IF the particular electronic gizmo is still being made 15 years down the road. I have a Sync module issue in my '12 Ford.. just out of warranty, and $650 to replace. A low production Italian motorcycle in a few years? I'll stick with Lannis' old SP.. :smiley:
Some technologies just reach a certain point where they really work in the real world, and beyond that, it's just a bit of refinement, the cost of which may outweigh the benefits by a considerable amount.
I might compare a Tonti or Loopframe Guzzi with a Colt M1911A1. That gun is 104 years old, from the days when airplanes were made of cloth and sticks, cars didn't have electric starters, and movies didn't have sound.
But even though it's been 104 years, and there have been vast improvements in materials and chemistry and moving parts and electronics and everything else, and even though there are high-tech polymer guns with laser sights and electronic widgetry ....
... there are still people who depend on their gun for their living, and possibly to save their lives or those of others, who depend on a 1911 single-action automatic as their professional go-to sidearm.
I'm sure that someone could prove, somehow, that a modern polymer gun of some sort is "Better" or "More Advanced" in every measurable way. However, all things considered, those factors don't necessarily make it a more effective weapon when every factor including experience, availability of repair, parts, and tuning etc are considered ....
Lannis
-
If you really think that Forbes articles and performance graphs and Google searches are going to tell me how much better a 2015 motorcycle is than a 1985 for what I need, then I'm afraid that your perspective as a professional technical writer has "skewed" your opinion quite a bit too. That's only a fraction of what makes something "better", not by any means the whole story.
Lannis
That was a complete straw man argument. I haven't said a word about any of that.
My only discussion was with regards to Cam's declaring 60's or 70's as the pinnacle of functional/mechanical design and not limiting it to his preferences for such design or the aesthetics of it.
This isn't about like or want or prefer, just simple facts regarding capability/performance/reliability from an industry wide perspective (not looking at individual exceptional products or turds). Not looking at economics but looking at trends of power, performance, efficiency all along with gains in safety, emissions, reduced maintenance and greater dependability.
It's not about who CAN make an old bike last longer or fix it on the side of the road or who can get as good mpg on their run can Festiva cause they didn't want the ABS, airbags, or crash worthiness of the 2015.
It's simply a statement that even if you feel aesthetics peaked then the industry has kept moving forward mechanically in that they are capable of and generally produce.
-
I'm going to side with Lannis on this one. <snapping suspenders> While I certainly appreciate the modern technology, when it goes udders skyward.. and it will, eventually.. it's horrendously expensive to fix IF the particular electronic gizmo is still being made 15 years down the road. I have a Sync module issue in my '12 Ford.. just out of warranty, and $650 to replace. A low production Italian motorcycle in a few years? I'll stick with Lannis' old SP.. :smiley:
You're siding with Lannis against no one. This is only tangentially related to my point.
-
At some point not too many years ago the first Retro styled vehicles started to show up. Until then, as far as I am aware, motor vehicles had never been designed to resemble their early less advanced predecessors. The same thing has happened to camping trailers, coffee makers, entire kitchens, cabinets, appliances and all, and I'm sure there are many other categories I am missing.
In a hundred years the big thing in personal space vehicles may be retro styled Space Shuttle looking craft? Perhaps as some have said, certain technologies reach a pinnacle of style, a point at which essentially every doable variation has been tried out, and then settles down to what appeals to the eye best.
-
At some point not too many years ago the first Retro styled vehicles started to show up. Until then, as far as I am aware, motor vehicles had never been designed to resemble their early less advanced predecessors. The same thing has happened to camping trailers, coffee makers, entire kitchens, cabinets, appliances and all, and I'm sure there are many other categories I am missing.
In a hundred years the big thing in personal space vehicles may be retro styled Space Shuttle looking craft? Perhaps as some have said, certain technologies reach a pinnacle of style, a point at which essentially every doable variation has been tried out, and then settles down to what appeals to the eye best.
Some technologies reach a pinnacle of not only style but functionality (at least a local pinnacle). The 1911A1 is an example - kitchen refrigerators are another. In 1920 they were brand new and still looked like "iceboxes" - over the next 45 years they developed from round white things with mechanical handles and icy freezers, into the magnetically-closed frost-free items of the late 60s - and for 50 years now they haven't essentially changed. Mick Jagger and Robert Plant and Roger Daltrey are still pulling the same crowds they pulled 50 years ago.
Orville Wright flew the very first airplane, and before he died he got to ride in a B47 jet bomber. They went from powered kites to nuclear-armed jets in 45 years - but now for the last 60 years we've been using the B52 and we'll probably use it another 20 years at least.
The electronics world has changed enormously, though, and continues - Moore's Law might have an end but we haven't found it yet.
But cars, bikes, planes, guns, music? Local peak might already have been passed ... !
Lannis
-
It's hard to beat the simple elegance of the 1911.
That John Browning was an amazing designer!
-
planes,
Gimme an old one.. :smiley:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Monocoupe/7-008_zpsw1pfcomo.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Monocoupe/7-008_zpsw1pfcomo.jpg.html)
-
It's hard to beat the simple elegance of the 1911.
That John Browning was an amazing designer!
There were some amazing mechanical ENGINEERS around the turn of the century. Seriously..
-
If some one offered me a FREE '70 Hemi 'cuda or a 2016 Hemi Challenger, I'd take the '70. FREE '74 V7 Sport or a 2016 Guzzi V7, I'd take the Sport. '66 Shelby fastback Mustang or a 2016 Mustang equivalant, I'll take the Shelby. 1911 Colt .45 or a Glock .45... Anyone disagree? If so, you're smokin' crack.
-
If some one offered me a FREE '70 Hemi 'cuda or a 2016 Hemi Challenger, I'd take the '70. FREE '74 V7 Sport or a 2016 Guzzi V7, I'd take the Sport. '66 Shelby fastback Mustang or a 2016 Mustang equivalant, I'll take the Shelby. 1911 Colt .45 or a Glock .45... Anyone disagree? If so, you're smokin' crack.
I'll go you one better.
If someone offered me a FREE 2015 Ford Taurus OR a FREE 1970 Ford Fairlane, and I wasn't allowed to sell my choice but had to drive it, I'd choose the Fairlane ..... I JUST DON'T NEED all the stuff that the new cars come with. I'm not some fairy-cake that has to be coddled with heated seats and GPS and power windows and power this and power that and electronic this and electronic that. I just want to drive it, and stay out of the rain. The barest, sparest car you can buy is a luxury condo compared to riding a motorcycle. And riding a motorcycle is the standard by which I judge comfort and utility .... I'm a motorcyclist first and a car driver when I have to be.
Lannis
-
If some one offered me a FREE '70 Hemi 'cuda or a 2016 Hemi Challenger, I'd take the '70. FREE '74 V7 Sport or a 2016 Guzzi V7, I'd take the Sport. '66 Shelby fastback Mustang or a 2016 Mustang equivalant, I'll take the Shelby. 1911 Colt .45 or a Glock .45... Anyone disagree? If so, you're smokin' crack.
My point wasn't about preference, but now that you mention it, I'm not sure I'd make any of the same choices as you. Well, maybe one or two. Definitely not the 4 wheel ones.
-
1911 is too new fangled for me. S&W DA revolver was the true pinnacle of handgun development. And no, I'm not kidding.
Back to that Triumph. Yes, it looks great from the angle that photograph was taken, which was carefully chosen. Can't see the radiator. But from the front, it is painfully obvious that there is about 3 square feet of radiator.
One more random comment. What's the big deal on dual front disk brakes? I suppose they are important on a track bike to deal with fade, but I've never had fading issues in real life, spirited mountain riding, especially with a bike like a Guzzi with lots of engine braking. Seems to me that extra disk and caliper is just needless increase in unsprung weight, more expense in brake pads, more hassle for brake bleeding, etc.
-
If some one offered me a FREE '70 Hemi 'cuda or a 2016 Hemi Challenger, I'd take the '70. FREE '74 V7 Sport or a 2016 Guzzi V7, I'd take the Sport. '66 Shelby fastback Mustang or a 2016 Mustang equivalant, I'll take the Shelby. 1911 Colt .45 or a Glock .45... Anyone disagree? If so, you're smokin' crack.
Of course I would take all of the older productions, but in terms of the newer auto's, they are much better in many ways including power and safety. The 2016 Barracuda will have an optional motor that is supposed to hit 600 hp.
-
Of course I would take all of the older productions, but in terms of the newer auto's, they are much better in many ways including power and safety. The 2016 Barracuda will have an optional motor that is supposed to hit 600 hp.
AMC is back???
-
If some one offered me a FREE '70 Hemi 'cuda or a 2016 Hemi Challenger, I'd take the '70. FREE '74 V7 Sport or a 2016 Guzzi V7, I'd take the Sport. '66 Shelby fastback Mustang or a 2016 Mustang equivalant, I'll take the Shelby. 1911 Colt .45 or a Glock .45... Anyone disagree? If so, you're smokin' crack.
Depends , ya gonna drive that Hemi Cuda from 1970 , or just look at it ? :laugh:
Whee whee whee ,VROOM , vroom , cough cough , silence , whee whee whee , VROOM vroom , cough cough , silence . Followed by some choice expletives from the person behind the wheel who is running late for work :laugh:
Dusty
-
AMC is back???
1970 Javelin, nice on the outside.
(http://www.tajavelin.com/transam_javelin.jpg)
Not a very good looking interior compared to what GM was doing in 1970.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3536/3873774389_ca3e606cfd.jpg)
-
One more random comment. What's the big deal on dual front disk brakes? I suppose they are important on a track bike to deal with fade, but I've never had fading issues in real life, spirited mountain riding, especially with a bike like a Guzzi with lots of engine braking. Seems to me that extra disk and caliper is just needless increase in unsprung weight, more expense in brake pads, more hassle for brake bleeding, etc.
I think for an experienced rider like yourself - who is very less likely to get himself into trouble - some of this may be true but in general, it would be difficult for me to disagree more. Every front single bike I've ever owned (especially the 4 Californias I owned prior) needed assistance from the rear brake to stop in any sort of sudden, straight, safe way. By themselves, for me at least, single disc bikes' front ends seem to squirm a great deal. In fact, all those single disc bikes I owned when I first started riding actually taught me to be a better rider - even today whether I need it or not I almost always use both front and rear brakes concurrently. In the past I owned both single disc front bikes and dual, swapping from the dual to the single the first stop I'd make would always remind me of the feel and safety differences of each. But again, this is just me.
Depends , ya gonna drive that Hemi Cuda from 1970 , or just look at it ? :laugh:
Whee whee whee ,VROOM , vroom , cough cough , silence , whee whee whee , VROOM vroom , cough cough , silence . Followed by some choice expletives from the person behind the wheel who is running late for work :laugh:
Dusty
This, this, and this.
-
The main thing, for street riders, that dual disks brings to the table is reduced effort. The reduced effort is something anyone can benefit from. Reduced effort and better feel. The ability to stop aggressively with one or two fingers while enjoying excellent feedback is a good thing.
The other benefit, mainly for hard chargers and track days, is reduced heat and reduced fade. Because the braking surface is doubled, the amount of heat generated is more easily dissipated.
The downside to dual disks is the increased unsprung weight, which can negatively effect suspension performance and steering feel. That is why people like Buel have tried various single front brake options, even on high performance bikes. In Buell's case, he got lighter weight, but the rim-mounted rotor increased Rotational Inertia, which was compesated for with very steep steering geometry.
Though not top shelf items, I would imagine that the new Triumph's dual disk front brakes have noticeably increased power and feel from the rather wimpy single unit that's been on the Bonnevilles for years.
Improvements are surely still possible. Better rotors being the obvious first choice, based on photos I've seen.
-
I suspect the unsprung weight means little on the street.
I agree with the advantages Rocker spells out.
In addition you also get longer time between maintenance (pass replacement). For instance my Jackal needed pads every time I replaced a rear tire (meaning front and rear pads every 10k). I think the front was over-worked on that bike. In contrast the Breva 1100 (on which I rarely used the rear brake, the duals in front were so good) never needed either in 17k miles.
And don't even get me started on Harleys with a single disc ugh.
Oh, and this might be vain, but I also prefer the look of a bike with duals. It's much more balanced and looks the business.
-
OK Kev , "rear nectar" ???
Dusty
-
AMC is back???
Barracuda = Plymouth
Re AMC, I still think the Gremlin X was cool.
-
OK Kev , "rear nectar" ???
Dusty
I really don't know how the frickin phone got nectar from brake. :undecided:
-
...
In addition you also get longer time between maintenance (pass replacement). For instance my Jackal needed pads every time I replaced a rear tire (meaning front and rear pads every 10k). I think the front was over-worked on that bike. In contrast the Breva 1100 (on which I rarely used the rear brake, the duals in front were so good) never needed either in 17k miles.
I finally replaced the front pads on that B11 at 26k miles.
-
Barracuda = Plymouth
Re AMC, I still think the Gremlin X was cool.
Most years of the Barracuda were cool too, although my old '65 was just funky.. Sorta like "rear nectar" :cool:
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/broughsuperior/2008_1208josh0051_zpsd0e35b6a.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/broughsuperior/media/2008_1208josh0051_zpsd0e35b6a.jpg.html)
-
I finally replaced the front pads on that B11 at 26k miles.
How many miles when you sold it?
-
As to the comments about chain drive. I agree that chains are vastly better than they used to be, and basically fine in normal usage. Not necessarily a deal breaker on a bike you otherwise like.
But I've been riding my chain drive Ninja two fiddy during our recent Texas downpours. Got time today to check bike out for Monday commute. The chain was basically orange with rust. Guzzi shaft doesn't do that. Belt drive doesn't do that.
-
As to the comments about chain drive. I agree that chains are vastly better than they used to be, and basically fine in normal usage. Not necessarily a deal breaker on a bike you otherwise like.
But I've been riding my chain drive Ninja two fiddy during our recent Texas downpours. Got time today to check bike out for Monday commute. The chain was basically orange with rust. Guzzi shaft doesn't do that. Belt drive doesn't do that.
That orange rust on the outside isn't a worry, not even the slightest. A bit of lube, ride on.
In those downpours, everything steel on a bike is going to rust unless it is painted, plated or packed away, a lubed chain is the least of your worries. Just saying.
-
As to the comments about chain drive. I agree that chains are vastly better than they used to be, and basically fine in normal usage. Not necessarily a deal breaker on a bike you otherwise like.
But I've been riding my chain drive Ninja two fiddy during our recent Texas downpours. Got time today to check bike out for Monday commute. The chain was basically orange with rust. Guzzi shaft doesn't do that. Belt drive doesn't do that.
When you replace the chain, buy a nice one that's plated. You won't have the rust "problem", anymore.
-
How many miles when you sold it?
28k. I replaced them not long before I sold it.