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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ohiorider on October 24, 2015, 11:05:21 AM
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I headed out to Ace Hardware this morning to pick up a couple of small bottles of Echo 50:1 oil. I generally buy the small bottles that will treat a couple gallons of gasoline. But this time I thought I'd pick up a large bottle of oil and save a few bucks. That was almost a fatal (for my leaf blower and weed whacker) mistake.
I didn't have my cheaters with me, and only noticed as I squinted at the can that the 32 oz container was not 2 stroke oil, but 50:1 PREMIX! $9.99 for one quart, or $39.96 for a gallon of lawn tool fuel.
Since Ace isn't usually the 'low price spread,' I checked Home Depot on line. One quart of the stuff is $7.97, or $31.88 a gallon. But wait! You can save some $$$$ buying the 6 quart package for $34.99 ($5.83 a quart) or $23.33 a gallon.
How lazy can someone be to buy this stuff vs measuring the proper amount of 2 stroke oil into a gas can, adding a gallon of gas, shake, and done!
The old saying in the 1980s was 'cocaine .... God's way of telling you that you make too much money.' Maybe Echo Pre Mix by the quart is the new way of measuring wealth. Or plain old stupid.
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Bob , no one ever went broke underestimating how lazy folks can be :shocked:
Dusty
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:coffee:The stuff you buy at the store has no alcohol. If you live in an area where you can't get oxygenated fuel, it's your only alternative.
OOPS! I meant where all you can get is oxygenated fuel.
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Two Checks has it right, not only that but, for me I only use mixed oil in my two cheapo chainsaws on the rare occasion I might need them, often once every two years or so. Having stabilized, non alcohol, 94 octane, fuel available in these small quantities is a major boon to me for a ten minute job or so. Why would I want to mix a gallon of fuel that will be stale in a month and has no other use for me. If I need to use my saws on a more frequent basis or over a longer period of time I can always mix a gallon, I didn't throw out my can or my bottles of oil, I just won't need to throw out mixed fuel every six months.
Brian
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Some of them rich folks don't know what goes into the machine cause the gardener does it.
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perhaps not so much lazy as just easily confused.
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And I'm sure it has been properly 'aged' in a hot warehouse for a few months.
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I felt that way the first time I saw premixed antifreeze in the auto parts store. Half as much product for 80% of the price.
I get 2-stroke oil at Walmart. They have store brand TC-W3 oil in gallon jugs for somewhere around $12, depending on the current OPEC situation. I've used it for many years in my H2, DT100, outboard motors, lawn equipment, and chainsaws.
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I have premix made from oil and gas with ethanol, even after a year it works fine.
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Lazy? How about the people who use the piece if equipment just a couple/few times a year and barely get through a tank and a half of fuel?
That premix lasts a long time.
Lazy? Hardly. A lot smarter than stocking flammable liquids you don't need.
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I get 2-stroke oil at Walmart. They have store brand TC-W3 oil in gallon jugs for somewhere around $12, depending on the current OPEC situation. I've used it for many years in my H2, DT100, outboard motors, lawn equipment, and chainsaws.
Maybe I should have followed your advice. I always ponied up for the Yamalube 2S for my RD350 (injector, not premix). At $30/gallon, it made that RD relatively expensive to keep on the road. Relatively.
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I have premix made from oil and gas with ethanol, even after a year it works fine.
:1: One reason I use Lawn-Boy 2-stroke oil is that it has stabilizer already in it. Always has AFAIK.
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Two Checks has it right, not only that but, for me I only use mixed oil in my two cheapo chainsaws on the rare occasion I might need them, often once every two years or so. Having stabilized, non alcohol, 94 octane, fuel available in these small quantities is a major boon to me for a ten minute job or so. Why would I want to mix a gallon of fuel that will be stale in a month and has no other use for me. If I need to use my saws on a more frequent basis or over a longer period of time I can always mix a gallon, I didn't throw out my can or my bottles of oil, I just won't need to throw out mixed fuel every six months.
Brian
Uh , don't know how to tell you guys this , but math allows us to mix a pint , or a quart of premix as easily as a gallon . Just sayin :laugh:
Dusty
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:1: One reason I use Lawn-Boy 2-stroke oil is that it has stabilizer already in it. Always has AFAIK.
- yes what Charlie says - also most good 2 stroke oil has stabilizer in it. I have some that has sat around over a year and still fires up fine....
Mark
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I prefer mixed fuel. You only have to mix it once. :laugh:
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Given how our gasoline has completely dissolved the in-tank lines of a couple-three of my tools - I'd say the higher cost of a non-alcohol (pre-mixed) fuel, balanced against replacement factory tanks is not so bad.
Todd.
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Wal-Mart sells 1 gallon jugs of K-1 kerosene for $9.24 or a 2-1/2 gallon jug for $19.54. I'm guessing someone buys it or they wouldn't have it on the shelf.
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Lazy? How about the people who use the piece if equipment just a couple/few times a year and barely get through a tank and a half of fuel?
That premix lasts a long time.
Lazy? Hardly. A lot smarter than stocking flammable liquids you don't need.
I agree.............
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Once again , why not mix a QUART of premix and not a gallon , not that hard to do . Heck , if you only use a saw twice a year why not just rent instead of buy ?
Dusty
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Given how our gasoline has completely dissolved the in-tank lines of a couple-three of my tools - I'd say the higher cost of a non-alcohol (pre-mixed) fuel, balanced against replacement factory tanks is not so bad.
Todd.
Y'all must have some seriously bad gas where you are. Still have the original hoses on my '84 Husqvarna chainsaw, same brand leaf blower, '82 Echo trimmer and even the 40 year old Montgomery-Wards/Remington chainsaw. They all sit with gas in them year round.
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When you figure how little fuel stabilizer(Stabil) you add for a years worth of protection for a gallon or less............... ..we're talkin' peanuts. :grin:
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Y'all must have some seriously bad gas where you are. Still have the original hoses on my '84 Husqvarna chainsaw, same brand leaf blower, '82 Echo trimmer and even the 40 year old Montgomery-Wards/Remington chainsaw. They all sit with gas in them year round.
Yup, we do. It'll go to varnish in no time. Eats O rings, rubber-like tubes, tanks themselves... Being Arizona likely doesn't help much but damn, we have some awful gas and are required to switch "blends" twice annually.
Todd.
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Yup, we do. It'll go to varnish in no time. Eats O rings, rubber-like tubes, tanks themselves... Being Arizona likely doesn't help much but damn, we have some awful gas and are required to switch "blends" twice annually.
Todd.
That's odd. I live in Az. and don't have any of those issues. Where do you live in Az.? I live in Kingman. We don't have any smog tests here. :smiley:
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That's odd. I live in Az. and don't have any of those issues. Where do you live in Az.? I live in Kingman. We don't have any smog tests here. :smiley:
If I bring gas down from our place up Nutrioso - I get over. This crap in Phoenix is the worst!
Todd.
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Slightly off-topic: I didn't expect to pay $63 for four liters of synthetic motorcycle oil this morning. But I did. Yowza.
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With those high prices and your lack of reading the label it's a good thing you weren't requiring 25:1 you could have easily filled your leaf blower with 25% RC Nitro that would have sent the leaves blowing.
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We don't usually brag about it, but Dusty and I are old enough to remember adding 1/2 pint of Mobil Oil 30wt car oil to a gallon of Whiting Brothers "regular" for any two stroke engine.
Ralph
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Uh , don't know how to tell you guys this , but math allows us to mix a pint , or a quart of premix as easily as a gallon . Just sayin :laugh:
Dusty
Until you go buy it and then its more of a hassle to buy a quart of gasoline and mix it. Sometimes paying for convenience works.
Besides, I worked long and hard so as not to worry about the price of premix in my retirement.
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For years, if I find i have a bit of left over mixed fuel at the end of the season, I simply add it to the fuel tank on one of our cars or the truck. No need to waste it. For that reason I have never felt any need to buy premixed fuel, or worry about mixing up too much two stroke fuel at a time. As I said, I've been doing this for years, with no apparent adverse effects to any of the vehicles to which this minuscule bit of mixed gas is added. Of course, I ensure that the gas tank of the recipient vehicle is relatively full of fuel before adding the mix.
JD
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Wal-Mart sells 1 gallon jugs of K-1 kerosene for $9.24 or a 2-1/2 gallon jug for $19.54. I'm guessing someone buys it or they wouldn't have it on the shelf.
I'm a buyer. Those one gallon jugs are good for about two seasons of chain soaking & cleaning on my chain-drive bikes. NGC.
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We don't usually brag about it, but Dusty and I are old enough to remember adding 1/2 pint of Mobil Oil 30wt car oil to a gallon of Whiting Brothers "regular" for any two stroke engine.
Ralph
Yeah , helped a friend that raced a Bultaco Astro , dang that thing was fast .
One question , how hard is it to measure out a quart of gasoline from a one gallon can ? Some of you guys aren't very good Guzzi guys :huh: :laugh:
Dusty
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I'm a buyer. Those one gallon jugs are good for about two seasons of chain soaking & cleaning on my chain-drive bikes. NGC.
I understand keresene has mutiple uses but why pay $9.24 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart for something that is readily avalaible at most gas stations for $2.99 per gallon?
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I understand keresene has mutiple uses but why pay $9.24 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart for something that is readily avalaible at most gas stations for $2.99 per gallon?
Not that I use WalMart, but I know why because I do it myself.
It's because it's already right there in front of you in a clean can, just the amount you want, and you can take it and go.
I don't have to go home, find a can, clean it off, carry it down to the filling station that carries kerosene, pump it in the can, and take it home and store it. Sometimes that's EASILY worth $6 to me ....
Lannis
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I understand keresene has mutiple uses but why pay $9.24 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart for something that is readily avalaible at most gas stations for $2.99 per gallon?
I did it once, just so I ended up with a clearly labeled and durable can. Which I now usually refill cheaply.
While on the subject, who does the propane exchange thing? Not only do you usually pay a LOT more for the exchange, but most exchange deals only put 15 pounds of propane in the tank. Versus the nearly 20 pounds you get on a refill. (I think even refills are a bit under the full 20 pounds for safety reasons.) You end up paying a lot for that convenience.
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I did it once, just so I ended up with a clearly labeled and durable can. Which I now usually refill cheaply.
While on the subject, who does the propane exchange thing? Not only do you usually pay a LOT more for the exchange, but most exchange deals only put 15 pounds of propane in the tank. Versus the nearly 20 pounds you get on a refill. (I think even refills are a bit under the full 20 pounds for safety reasons.) You end up paying a lot for that convenience.
I heard they also used to use a non-standard valve that couldn't be filled anywhere else, so once you got into the exchange thing, you were stuck. According to the story I heard, they were required to quit doing that.
I have a guy a couple miles from my house, who fills all my propane cylinders very reasonably. He also leaves a couple full 20 lb. tanks in his filling area in case someone who heats with propane runs out on a cold night. He says if that happens, just take one and come back to pay next time you pass by.
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Until you go buy it and then its more of a hassle to buy a quart of gasoline and mix it. Sometimes paying for convenience works.
We validate that concept every time we pay $90 for a pair of shoes that we could make ourselves with $5 worth of leather and $.75 worth of dye and polish .....
Lannis
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Coming from one of the last shoe making towns in New England, I think Lannis is right if'n you want moccasins;shoess are a bit of a work of art. :grin:
Is it true that premix stored in factory made aged oaken barrels last longer?
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Is it true that premix stored in factory made aged oaken barrels last longer?
I don't know about that, but it sure tastes better.
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We validate that concept every time we pay $90 for a pair of shoes that we could make ourselves with $5 worth of leather and $.75 worth of dye and polish .....
Lannis
You got some of those $5.75 shoes to show us? :wink: Hell, why go to a dentist, I can fill your teeth with lead or yank then for 1/10 the cost... :laugh:
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I did it once, just so I ended up with a clearly labeled and durable can. Which I now usually refill cheaply.
While on the subject, who does the propane exchange thing? Not only do you usually pay a LOT more for the exchange, but most exchange deals only put 15 pounds of propane in the tank. Versus the nearly 20 pounds you get on a refill. (I think even refills are a bit under the full 20 pounds for safety reasons.) You end up paying a lot for that convenience.
I do that when my propane tanks are too old to refill. (yes, they have an expiration date).
I heard they also used to use a non-standard valve that couldn't be filled anywhere else, so once you got into the exchange thing, you were stuck. According to the story I heard, they were required to quit doing that.
I've never had a problem getting those tank-exchange tanks refilled at a normal refill place.
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You got some of those $5.75 shoes to show us? :wink:
Oh heck no. I'm the one saying that buying a nice clean can of white kerosene in the store (that is, paying for convenience) is a GOOD idea, and that we do that sort of thing all the time when we pay for someone else to do something (fill a can with oil, pre-mix my two-stroke fuel, cut and stitch leather for shoes).
I'm saying that the guys who think it's stupid to pay $10 a gallon for kerosene don't seem to have a problem paying for people to do OTHER things for them. Ask them where THEIR shoes are that they could have made themselves. It's just a matter of degree .... ! :grin:
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People who pay for everything create jobs... :grin:
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People who pay for everything create jobs... :grin:
Watch out ... you're describing "Trickle-Down" Economics! That's interesting , you rabble-rouser! Off to Coventry with you .....
Lannis
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I understand keresene has mutiple uses but why pay $9.24 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart for something that is readily avalaible at most gas stations for $2.99 per gallon?
If there were any gas stations in Evergreen, Colorado, that sold kerosene, I'd do exactly that. But I've searched and there aren't. And despite Lannis's impassioned dislike of Wal-Mart, we're fortunate to even have one of those.
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If there were any gas stations in Evergreen, Colorado, that sold kerosene, I'd do exactly that. But I've searched and there aren't. And despite Lannis's impassioned dislike of Wal-Mart, we're fortunate to even have one of those.
In our town of 1500 people (and a new WalMart), the local stores have everything I can think of that the WalMart has, including gallon cans of kerosene and premix fuel if I want to indulge myself in lamp oil or a pickaxe handle so I don't have to cut one out of dogwood .... so it's not even a sacrifice for me to never go in one!
Lannis
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In this neck of the ghetto, Kero goes for over $4/gl last I looked. And who knows how long it's been in the tank.
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who does the propane exchange thing? Not only do you usually pay a LOT more for the exchange, but most exchange deals only put 15 pounds of propane in the tank. Versus the nearly 20 pounds you get on a refill. (I think even refills are a bit under the full 20 pounds for safety reasons.) You end up paying a lot for that convenience.
I do. I only use one or two 20-lb bottles per year. It's real easy to just exchange them at the local gas station/convenience store.
It's real inconvenient to haul my bottle to a place and have it refilled during their business hours.
The convenience stores are open 24/7.
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Wonder if I could make shoes out of old kerosene cans :wink:
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If there were any gas stations in Evergreen, Colorado, that sold kerosene, I'd do exactly that. But I've searched and there aren't.
Diesel fuel and kerosene are not very different these days.
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What's all this talk about running 2 smoke motors on kerosene as far as I know it's not volatile enough.
We had an old tractor on the farm that would run on kerosene but you had to get it hot on regular gas first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene
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What's all this talk about running 2 smoke motors on kerosene as far as I know it's not volatile enough.
What did I miss, Roy? Did someone say he did that? My 2-strokes might run on kerosene if they're good and hot, but I expect the detonation would put a hole in a piston pretty quickly.
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Sorry I was following a thread drift, Perazzamix, Lannis and Wayne started talking Kerosene :thewife:
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Sorry I was following a thread drift, Perazzamix, Lannis and Wayne started talking Kerosene :thewife:
We were talking about any 'boutique' fuel that is three times the cost, and specially aged.
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We were talking about any 'boutique' fuel that is three times the cost, and specially aged.
The whole point of the thread is "Why would anyone pay for 'convenience' when you can do it yourself?"
Premix was one ... canned kerosene was one ... factory made shoes was another ....
Lannis
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Premix was one ... canned kerosene was one ... factory made shoes was another ....
But I can't think of any argument for premixed antifreeze. It can't be that hard to pour in a pint of water after you add a pint of antifreeze. That one is just a trap for people who don't read labels.
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But I can't think of any argument for premixed antifreeze. It can't be that hard to pour in a pint of water after you add a pint of antifreeze. That one is just a trap for people who don't read labels.
What is the qualitative or quantitative difference between that and paying 4x the price for premixed 2 stroke fuel ? And who buys 90 dollar shoes ? :shocked: Some of you guys are gonna lose your red suspender cards :grin:
Dusty
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The way I see it, with antifreeze, adding water is in another category of easy compared to mixing gasoline and oil. You don't need to store it, it's not a fire risk, it doesn't go bad, etc., you just turn on the faucet and fill a cup or jar when needed.
I mix my own everything though, don't misunderstand. :laugh:
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What is the qualitative or quantitative difference between that and paying 4x the price for premixed 2 stroke fuel ? And who buys 90 dollar shoes ? :shocked: Some of you guys are gonna lose your red suspender cards :grin:
Dusty
Oh good lord a good protective supportive pair of Carolina work boots cost $225 or so, a good pair of Rockports are $100 or more, you can always buy cheap junk but I spend a lot of time on my feet and I use real shoes. Maybe you can buy them at Goodwill or something but they need to fit ....
My son works landscaping and goes through two or three pairs of boots a year. A pair of Merrills will last me about a year ....
Lannis
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The way I see it, with antifreeze, adding water is in another category of easy compared to mixing gasoline and oil. You don't need to store it, it's not a fire risk, it doesn't go bad, etc., you just turn on the faucet and fill a cup or jar when needed.
I mix my own everything though, don't misunderstand. :laugh:
If your tap water was the quality of what comes out of the Colorado here in Las Vegas, the premix antifreeze might be attractive - I have to filter all our water, whether for drinking, use in the humidifier, or in the pet's dish. If it's going to sit in the motor for a few years, I want distilled; at that point it becomes a cost comparison between the cost of the distilled water and the premix antifreeze...
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Oh good lord a good protective supportive pair of Carolina work boots cost $225 or so, a good pair of Rockports are $100 or more, you can always buy cheap junk but I spend a lot of time on my feet and I use real shoes. Maybe you can buy them at Goodwill or something but they need to fit ....
My son works landscaping and goes through two or three pairs of boots a year. A pair of Merrills will last me about a year ....
Lannis
Those are workboots , not shoes . Actually , after wearing Red Wings or Carolina boots for years , found the Schmidt brand a couple of years ago , $100USD , best pair of boots I've ever worn .
Dusty
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Lannis's point is well made.
I now fear this thread is about to descend into the deep abyss...
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Lannis's point is well made.
I now fear this thread is about to descend into the deep abyss...
Sounds like a good time to bail ..... :bike-037:
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Why would anyone buy pre-mixed margarita mix with the tequila in it when you can make your own with better tequila for less :thumb: