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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 80CX100 on October 24, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
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I have been negligent in submitting a post updating the journey I have taken with my 80 Lemans Cx100, (I will when I get time and photos,, because I know without those, it never happened,,lol),, suffice to say, she is running sweet and strong, vhb30s 140 mains, 52 idle, K&N''s, Lafranconis,,, albeit, leaking oil from many of the usual orifices. lol
I went out on my first ever group ride today,(just happened to be in roughly the same area Nick was out in today,,small world). Not so sure I am totally sold on the group ride ( total 10 riders) when I get to a nice corner, I like to lean into it, and throttle hard, through and out of it,,, probably the most joyful part for me of riding a Tonti Guzzi,,, you can't do that on a group ride,,, oh well,,, first world problems.
During the course of the long ride today, the group splinterred, and the following occurred,,, I posted this to the group, but I would appreciate any feedback from some of the gurus here,,, in the following scenario,, is there a winning hand to play,, or are they all, varying degrees of losing hands,,,
"From Denbigh coming up the back of Calbabogie, it was cold ,wet, greasy, twisty and lots of blind spots, Bob was leading the four of us at a good, prudent pace, I had no desire to go any quicker,,, I was riding sweeper,, and could see a new BMW car coming up behind us,,, I thought to myself,, is that jerk going to try to pass us through this nasty stretch,,, I moved a little over to the center line to take possession of the space,,, but it didn't fizz him,,, before too long he was out passing us all,,, uphill, double line with a blind curve to the right,,, he just barely made it back in safely,,, if there had been an oncoming car at any point in his manouver,,, it would not have ended nicely. I put it out there for anyone that has a lot of group riding experience, or may know the answer,,, what's the safest way for the group to try to handle cars that want to get past us,,, expecially in a dangerous spot?"
I recognize the safety of travelling as a unified group without cars leapfrogging through the bikes,,, if I pull over to let him by,, now he's in the group, and will definitely be trying to pass the others,,, on this particular stretch of road,, that's not safely doable,,, is there a right move?
tia tc
Kelly
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is there a right move?
Yeah, don't ride in groups.
Opps, time for breakfast, I'll be back...
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I dont do groups. It's very difficult to find likewise minds with similar riding habits.
Often it's too slow or stupid fast. I also worry about 10 guys hovering around me.
Solo's or with few guys works well for me. (And in smaller groups cages can pass with ease)
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Nothing is more annoying than riding up on a pack of bikes going 50mph on a 2 lane road. Usually Harley or harley clones.
Number one safety tip: GET A CLUE! SPREAD OUT!
There are people on the road who have places to go and schedules to meet. And the "pack" makes it very difficult to pass. No excuse for the beepers behavior in your experience but perhaps he's been stuck behind one of these packs before
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Groups can be fun as long as there are some ground rules set ahead of time if there are people that have not ridden together before. The first little bit of winding roads generally sort out the pecking order. If someone is crowding you, let then by. At some point, the fastest or most aggressive riders to the least aggressive will find order. If the riders understand how to ride in a group, which often times they don't, then all goes well. It is not your objective to keep up with the rider ahead of you. It IS your objective to keep track of the rider BEHIND you. Riding in this way, the group can get spread out without anybody getting lost at an intersection, or having trouble without anybody realizing it. On a twisty road, people should allow each bike to have the entire lane. On straight stretches, staggered with the lead bike in the 1/3rd of the lane closest to the center line. Reason is, if a car passes, once it pulls back in past the lead bike, there will not be another bike in the 1/3rd toward the curb that might have gone un-noticed by the auto. As for cagers wanting by, I generally move over to a single file to the curb side of the lane. Slow down and allow the car to get by. Why endanger yourself with a cager that just has to get by. Let them, then move on.
Small or larger groups, same rules apply.
JMHO.
John Henry
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Well, that was a yummy breakfast. :smiley: What I meant by my terse remark is just that. Don't stay in a group. It's dangerous. The fast guys will be bored to tears, the slow guys maybe over their riding ability.
A car will have a difficult time getting around, and they will want to get around a slow pack of bikes.
It's just not a good mix.
If there are several on the ride, as ZZ says.. twisties will sort the order out quickly. Fast guys lead, but don't turn off a road until the last guy in line shows up. Ride your own ride. Testosterone can be a dangerous thing. Ride at your comfort level. Period.
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Well, that was a yummy breakfast. :smiley: What I meant by my terse remark is just that. Don't stay in a group. It's dangerous. The fast guys will be bored to tears, the slow guys maybe over their riding ability.
A car will have a difficult time getting around, and they will want to get around a slow pack of bikes.
It's just not a good mix.
If there are several on the ride, as ZZ says.. twisties will sort the order out quickly. Fast guys lead, but don't turn off a road until the last guy in line shows up. Ride your own ride. Testosterone can be a dangerous thing. Ride at your comfort level. Period.
Yup.
Two additional points from my perspective.
First, that sort of "gotta pass a group" is rare, generally, and especially so if a spirited group.
Still, a motorcycle "convoy" is not a single vehicle, but the same as a line of cars, i.e., legitimate passing "targets."
Accordingly, not letting a car (or anything) pass one or more bikes is not only dangerous but illegal.
Yes, yes, I understand reality, but the other (and beyond the red-mist moment) reality is that if the fecal matter strikes the rotating blades and ambulances, LEO's, and lawyers get involved, it will be a messy and expensive lesson learned.
Bill
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Well, that was a yummy breakfast. :smiley: What I meant by my terse remark is just that. Don't stay in a group. It's dangerous. The fast guys will be bored to tears, the slow guys maybe over their riding ability.
A car will have a difficult time getting around, and they will want to get around a slow pack of bikes.
It's just not a good mix.
If there are several on the ride, as ZZ says.. twisties will sort the order out quickly. Fast guys lead, but don't turn off a road until the last guy in line shows up. Ride your own ride. Testosterone can be a dangerous thing. Ride at your comfort level. Period.
Hey Chuck, and all the others that took the time to respond,,, yea I have to agree with all the comments,,, as much as I was looking forward to the group ride, it was a bit of a let down, and there were a few other "sketchy" manouvers/incidents, that didn't sit well with me.
For Nick and any other riders in eastern Ontario, as part of our route, we were on the 41 heading south out of Renfrew towards Denbigh/Griffith area, the road is a beautiful twisty stretch, with fresh, new sticky pavement, no cracks or potholes(unusual in this area,lol),,, worth the ride,,, my bike was running sweet, I just wanted to pin the throttle and see where the road took me,,, but alas, the group turned off, after only a few miles. I will have to get back there solo sometime, before our Canadian frost makes a mess of the road.
tks tc Kelly
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10 riders is a large group. We tend to splinter into groups of 4 or 5, the slowest controls the pace usually from the back, at least this is how I lead in twisties. I don't like to drop people that I'm not sure of either riding ability or if they know the way. If a rider cannot keep up and starts disappearing at the rear the rider in front of him should slow to keep him/her in sight, and the next rider will do the same till the whole group slows or turns around.
Traffic should be let by if you are holding them up, doesn't happen much in my groups (big fast bikes). On Interstates we like to do speed to take us forward but not more than 10 over, and pull over when possible to let faster traffic by.
On big groups, individuals must watch for faster traffic and let them through even if it means breaking the formation for a short while.
If some do not know the way, then I post a rider (usually last one before the next group) to show turn at a corner. A rider that has dropped rider behind them must stop at turns and post up to wait on the lagging rider/riders.
In twisties the last thing you want is to go looking for a dropped rider on which turn, no one knows if they did not keep them in the mirrors. We have had dropped riders set out on their own GPS to get to destination without telling anyone, caused a lot of back tracking and asking cagers behind us, people working on the roads. You don't want to go there, so all riders should know where or what happened to the rider behind them.
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Groups can be fun as long as there are some ground rules set ahead of time if there are people that have not ridden together before. The first little bit of winding roads generally sort out the pecking order. If someone is crowding you, let then by. At some point, the fastest or most aggressive riders to the least aggressive will find order. If the riders understand how to ride in a group, which often times they don't, then all goes well. It is not your objective to keep up with the rider ahead of you. It IS your objective to keep track of the rider BEHIND you. Riding in this way, the group can get spread out without anybody getting lost at an intersection, or having trouble without anybody realizing it. On a twisty road, people should allow each bike to have the entire lane. On straight stretches, staggered with the lead bike in the 1/3rd of the lane closest to the center line. Reason is, if a car passes, once it pulls back in past the lead bike, there will not be another bike in the 1/3rd toward the curb that might have gone un-noticed by the auto. As for cagers wanting by, I generally move over to a single file to the curb side of the lane. Slow down and allow the car to get by. Why endanger yourself with a cager that just has to get by. Let them, then move on.
Small or larger groups, same rules apply.
JMHO.
John Henry
Hey John, I'm not so sure, I'll be back again for a big group ride like that,,, but if I do,,, I think this mentality/methodology, would be the way to go. Stringing along keeping track of the guy behind you at intersections/turn offs/route changes etc,, makes a lot of sense, much safer and manageable. During our group ride, we were all trying to keep together and follow the leader,,, there were some unexpected turns,, that turned into real dangerous clusterf*cks.
Bill,,, I agree and had already sent out a message to the group, that in the future, if we got into a position, bad weather, bad road, whatever reason, that someone would want to pass, that we should string out with some distance between so they could do just that,,, normally on this twisty stretch of back road two lane,, the bikes would have no trouble, keeping ahead of most cars, but on this particular day,, the conditions were nasty,, cold and wet, with a light mix of hail, just to spice it up a bit. Not a good day to pushing any limits.
tks Kelly
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10 riders is a large group. We tend to splinter into groups of 4 or 5, the slowest controls the pace usually from the back, at least this is how I lead in twisties. I don't like to drop people that I'm not sure of either riding ability or if they know the way. If a rider cannot keep up and starts disappearing at the rear the rider in front of him should slow to keep him/her in sight, and the next rider will do the same till the whole group slows or turns around.
Traffic should be let by if you are holding them up, doesn't happen much in my groups (big fast bikes). On Interstates we like to do speed to take us forward but not more than 10 over, and pull over when possible to let faster traffic by.
On big groups, individuals must watch for faster traffic and let them through even if it means breaking the formation for a short while.
If some do not know the way, then I post a rider (usually last one before the next group) to show turn at a corner. A rider that has dropped rider behind them must stop at turns and post up to wait on the lagging rider/riders.
In twisties the last thing you want is to go looking for a dropped rider on which turn, no one knows if they did not keep them in the mirrors. We have had dropped riders set out on their own GPS to get to destination without telling anyone, caused a lot of back tracking and asking cagers behind us, people working on the roads. You don't want to go there, so all riders should know where or what happened to the rider behind them.
Hey Tiger, Your descrisption sounds like a well organized and executed group ride, I think part of the problem on this ride, I think it was a first for the organizer, and subsequent leader. I voiced concerns about fuel availability, before we agreed to this particular route,,, despite our best intentions and gassing up before heading into the back roads stretch, a few of us,,, myself included, came close to running dry,,, in regard to GPS,,, I'm more of an old school guy, relying on maps and sure things, that I know to be true.
When 3 of us ran into fuel shortage issues, we made the right decision to ride slightly out our way north of Denbigh to refuel, to make sure we could get home,,, if we had followed the information on the group leaders GPS (which indicated gas in Calabogie 20 miles away,,, we would have arrived in Calabogie to find out that the gas tanks there, were long out of service and empty,,, that would have been a very cold wet night, for at least 3 of us,,,
All in all it was a good ride,,, but definitely an eye opening experience,
tks tc Kelly
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When I'm leading I'm aware of the bikes distance limits (gas) and the riders that drink too much coffee. Less pucker factor than someone about to run out of gas pulling off unexpectedly and turning the whole group around in sometimes a bad area to uturn.
On the point of passing other bikes, that sorts itself out even for the leader to get passed, but if they don't know the way might be prudent to drop back at intersections.
I like to enter turns safely then power out depending on sight lines and terrain, but mostly stay 10 over the speed limit tops except for some spurts in open chutes between curves. I also watch the GPS on what kind of turns are coming up, about 2 turns ahead. We slow to speed limits in ALL towns and what not.
When the group is small and all can keep up, I like to run upbeat PACE where I try and go as fast as I can without using brakes and downshifting more than one gear. At this pace the other bikes will be using brakes some as they can not always tell when I am slowing with engine braking.
Our group last week in Mountain View, consisted of my 1190adv, S1000XR, F800R, and 1800cc Goldwing Trike. The F800R did not have GPS and if we dropped her, she slowed down and used the curves warning speed signs until we picked her back up. The S1000XR could keep up right on my tail probably even if I started using brakes deep into the turns, maybe not. The F800R rider is on her first bike and probably should be classed as intermediate after this trip. The Trike rider could keep up with my pace even elevated till I dropped the F800R. Pretty impressive to see that big trike square those corners off.
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Riding in groups of about 4 bikes with like minded riders is about the maximum I will ride in. I went on one larger "group ride" years ago with a local sport bike group. They were 45 minutes late for stands up and stopped every 15 miles for a 20 minute smoke break. After the second intermission I peeled off from the group to go do some riding.
I don't like group rides! I do like riding with friends :thumb:
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Years ago I use to go on a group ride (me on my CX) with a bunch of young guys on sport bikes. We would start off and I could stay with them until we got to the straights and they all disappeared and then I continues on my solo ride. The next meet I would hear about the crashes and speeding tickets.
Other than that I really don't like group rides unless it is a party of 3 or 4 max.
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I have a small group of friends who I really enjoy riding with. The fastest riders generally go at the back because catching up always requires a bit more speed and skill than leading. We don't overtake each other, and, as has been said, watch out for and if necessary wait for the person immediately behind. We don't ride slowly, but earlier this year had the unusual experience of a car clearly wanted to get past; it was a dangerous twisty narrow road, so we each pulled over in turn and were glad to see the back of him. Although we all make mistakes occasionally, and this can lead to some crazy moments (e.g. when a lead rider overtakes a truck and then suddenly turns into a side road), there's something about the way we all watch out for each other that often makes me feel safer than when I'm riding alone.
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"When I'm leading I'm aware of the bikes distance limits (gas) and the riders that drink too much coffee"
Tiger, when I read this,,, I had to chuckle to myself,,, I start my day with a couple of coffees, and drink tea and water all day long,,, I'm always looking for a place to pull over, and a tree to hide behind to take a leak,,, as scarey as some of the manouvers were,,, and the prospect of running out of gas was definitely unsettling,,, my biggest fear was that in trying to stay with the group,,, I was scared I was going to pi$$ my pants,,, the cold, wet weather,, wasn't helping my kidneys, in that regard at all,, omg,,, not looking forward to the day, that "depends" is a part of my riding kit,,,lol
tks tc, Kelly
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Yep, coffee stops rule. I ride with a camel back loaded with ice before we leave, but most riders do not, but do have water on their bikes they can access when we stop. I ride mostly solo or with friends from my riding club, so I usually know most of the riders and needs.
We had one in his 80s on a HP4, he hated the cold (49 leaving Minden, La.) but did okay. He has cats so will not stay over night, turned around in Benton, Ar. after lunch. He likes to rush up with his front wheel right off my rear and right and gets special attention before I start a turn, he has no GPS to watch the turns coming up. Loves to ride, as do we all, but wants to be safe. Most will not ride in front of him, LOL.
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"Although we all make mistakes occasionally, and this can lead to some crazy moments (e.g. when a lead rider overtakes a truck and then suddenly turns into a side road),"
Hey Graham, A very similar scenario played out as you describe a/m, during our ride.
I spent most of the day as sweeper, or in the tail end of the pack keeping track of two guys behind me,,, but as we pulled out of a fuel stop in Renfrew, most of the group had pulled over to wait for us, so I slid into 2nd place right behind the leader for the stretch of new pavement on 41 I mentioned previously,,, I was having a hard time holding my bike back,,, she does not like to be lugged in 5th gear,,, so I was giving lots of room to the leader, then reeling in the slack, as we did the twistys,,, as we came through a particularly nice set, we opened up to a long steep downhill straight stretch, with a little road coming in from the left at the bottom of the hill,,, as I caught up with the leader, I had scrubbed off a lot of speed with the engine back pressure, but I still had a pretty good head of steam,, all of a sudden, the leader threw his left signal on and made a quick left turn onto the little side road,,, I knew I wasn't in a position to make make that turn safely, so I started to slow down and checked my mirrors,,, I could see that some of the others had missed the turn, but that most had made it,,,, here's where I make a big time rookie, group riding mistake,,, As I watched the group disappear down that unfamilar road , I thought it would be a good idea to get stopped quickly and negotiate a uturn,,, big mistake,,say what you want about the linked brake system,,(I personally love it),,, it hauls down from speed quickly,,, with lots of composure,,, I could hear some of the cruiser bikes, catching way too much rear brake behind me,,, as some one else mentioned, one of those a** puckering moments. I've already apologized to the group, for being too close to the leader and missing the turn,,,mea culpa,, I tend to agree with the sentiments voiced here,,, large group rides, are probably not my thing.
But it was a good experience, met some nice guys on different rides,,, there was a sensible rider on an older Kawasaki Z900r that I know, shared my riding philosophy, he mentioned some other like minded riders,,, sounds like a good fit,,, and with all of the back bush roads around here, I fully intend to get into a nice dual sport, when my life allows it, I love big singles and the simple design of the DR650 calls strongly to me,,, was really impressed with one young guy on a KLR650,,, excellent mileage and range, kept pace with the group just fine.
Part of the joy of riding for me, is getting totally focussed or tuned in to the whole experience,,, on high alert with my surrounding,,hazards etc,,, and becoming one with the bike and the road,,, having to worry or think for the riders ahead or behind me, sort of detracts from that whole experience.
Kelly
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/Flying%20Trunk%20Monkey3_zps0taaa4px.jpg)
:boozing:
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"But it was a good experience, met some nice guys on different rides,,, there was a sensible rider on an older Kawasaki Z900r that I know, shared my riding philosophy, he mentioned some other like minded riders,,, "
The group I usually ride with is small and we have travelled so many miles together that we know each other's riding styles, and so riding together reduces rather than increases the stress. Although we try to be welcoming to new members, we struggle to include any whose riding style makes us feel uncomfortable and unsafe. I tend to use my 1999 Cali when riding alone, and the Breva 1100 when riding with the group, as that enables me to push a little harder if necessary to flow with the group.
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I basically don't do group rides. Don't enjoy them; think it's needlessly dangerous.
I have been a solo rider for more than 30 years. And I like the feeling that comes from knowing that I'm only looking out for myself, and I have the freedom to do ANYTHING I considered necessary for my safety. Weave within my lane. Hard braking. Going off pavement. Taking weird line through corner. Going "too slow" for a corner that looks fishy to me, in my sole discretion.
In a group, I'm constantly worried about what everyone else is doing, where they are in relation to me, etc.
And group rides inevitably bring out weird and undesirable peer pressures. What else would you expect of a bunch of guys on motorcycles?
I will occasionally bend my rule of "no group rides" with Guzzi riders I know. But even then, I prefer to be the tail gunner at the end. That way I don't have to worry about anyone behind me, and I've selected myself out from peer pressure to "be fast" or pass people.
Finally, I'd say you need to be utterly willing to bail from the group. You can set up locations ahead to re-group for lunch or gas. Or just split and ride solo.
The last group ride I did was at OK rally near Talimena scenic highway. These were all good riders, but I stayed tail gunner. Later in the ride, there were some intervening slower riders and some cars that the group had to pass in stages. When my turn came, I didn't get passing opportunities I liked, so I just enjoyed the ride and linked up with the group back at the campsite.
My 20 year old self would have been doing reckless passes and 100 mph burns on the straight sections to "catch up with the group." My strong advice is to resist that temptation.
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/Flying%20Trunk%20Monkey3_zps0taaa4px.jpg)
:boozing:
Hey Penderic, A couple of those would serve me just nicely,,, wonder what the exchange rate and customs fees would be,,, you yanks have everything! lol
Kelly
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Rule number 1 for all group rides : Everyone starts with an empty bladder and a FULL tank! Fuel stops are planed with the bike with the shortest range in mind. At fuel stops everyone should pee and fill up again, so everyone stays in sync. My bladder is only good for 125-150 MI so that is my limit. More than 4 riders and I'm out of my comfort range, but some do like larger groups. I think large groups are more dangerous myself, but what do I know?
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Slightly off topic
I've started to ride with a very good friend who has had his "big bike" for about 18 months now I guess.
If I'm following him I'm usually maybe 10 bike lengths back. If he's following me he can be up to 200 metres (yards :wink:) back which makes it very difficult to keep track of him (especially when on the Cali with its wildly vibrating mirrors)
What would you guys say is the ideal distance.
I ask 'cos we're off to Belgium in 3 weeks and it will be a lot easier if we don't keep loosing each other
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If I'm on a long straight-ish road with good visibility and riding staggered, then I'm OK with riding closer than you describe. If it's a road with twists or more potential hazards, then I try to keep to at least the two second gap (yes, I even check the distance occasionally by muttering, 'Only a fool breaks the two second rule'). Personally, I'd find 200 yards frustrating and too stressful for the lead rider, just as you describe.
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Slightly off topic
I've started to ride with a very good friend who has had his "big bike" for about 18 months now I guess.
If I'm following him I'm usually maybe 10 bike lengths back. If he's following me he can be up to 200 metres (yards :wink:) back which makes it very difficult to keep track of him (especially when on the Cali with its wildly vibrating mirrors)
What would you guys say is the ideal distance.
I ask 'cos we're off to Belgium in 3 weeks and it will be a lot easier if we don't keep loosing each other
With his implied lack of experience I would suggest that you should always be the one behind. Less worry and he sets a pace that he is comfortable with. As for distance, how much distance would you normally have between you and a vehicle in front of you? That's ideal.
I of the opinion that group rides, as in a convoy, only belong in a parade. A convoy inevitably breaks the cardinal rule, "Ride your own ride".
This is a problem we had in a BSA club I used to belong to in Canterbury. We had a vast range of machine types, sizes and ages, and an equal range of riders.
We ran club runs which were primarily aimed at one type of machine/rider or another but of course all were welcome and often there would be quite a large number of bikes involved. (It was a very successful club.)
What we found was the best approach, especially on longer runs, was to pre-plan the route and if needful print them out for the riders. Incorporated in the route plan was a series of meet up points where the group would collect itself thus retaining some degree of contact.
The riders were expected to ride at their own pace. We found that in practice what ever your pace and style was, there tended to be others that shared it, and it was rare for a bike to find itself alone or out of contact with any of the others.
It all worked very well.
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NO group rides and my reasons.
1. I can see all of your bike in 5 seconds and get bored
2. I can make a u-turn to go back and see something.
3. An interesting historical marker. I can stop.
4. A side road. Ah, that looks interesting.
5 You can slowly ride around the town square.
6 When you stop to eat, the locals will visit with you.
One exception to group rides is the Annual Christmas in July for the childrens home in Kaufman. It is a 25 mile straight shot.
I went to Alaska with a good Guzzi friend from NC. On our return we parted ways in Idaho as he liked to ride 100 and wouldn't stop. We are still friends.
Tex
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If you ride in a group, spread out, way out. Agree on a stopping place and general time in case the group fractures. It's more about being together when you're off the bikes, not about formation flying and listening to each others exhausts. Appoint someone the tail end Charlie to make sure everyone arrives (if on the same route) and calls ahead if someone has a problem.
Give other vehicles a place to tuck back in when passing and wave them on if needed.
JMHO.
Tobit
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I basically don't do group rides. Don't enjoy them; think it's needlessly dangerous.
In general, I'm the same way. But if you're riding a lot and have a lot of friends to ride with, especially on rally-rideouts and such, it's a bit unsociable to say "You guys go on, I don't like to ride with someone else in view on a bike."
We have an annual BritBike ride in the NC/TN/VA mountains that Fay and I ride on the Norton, with about 35 other guys. Nominally, we're in a "fast" group and a "slower" group. I hate riding in groups that large, so I volunteer to ride 'sweep' for the slower group and I ride my own ride - we have 2 gas stops and one gas/lunch stop each day, and that's where the real socializing goes on. I mean, it's fun to see the old bikes ahead of you and smell the Castrol, but the people are the real deal ....
Sometimes at a rally or at a lunch meet, you hook up with a couple or 3 other folks to ride with, but I find that they tend to be people that ride just like I do anyhow, so no one has to make any adjustments and we ride in a pretty loose group so we don't have to watch out for each other, and cars can pass us one at a time if they like ....
Other than that, I don't ride with anyone. It would be a nightmare for me to ride with one of these huge groups with "Rumble" or "Thunder" in their name. To me, that's the opposite of what I enjoy about motorcycling .....
Lannis
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Group rides = group crashes.
Also, taking possession of your piece of the road only works when the other person accepts it and honors your presence. The person willing to cross double yellows, pass on blind corners obviously does not care about you, let them pass and give them as much road as you can while being safe. The longer the rope, the faster the impact, let them go.
Someone in the group gets a hornet inside their helmet and everyone else gets wacked. Not worth it.
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I prefer solo, but on occasion will go out with a small group IF I know the riding habits if the leader. On many occasions I have gone out with a leader (who usually organizes the ride) and he turns into "Ricky Racer" TRYING to leave everyone in the dust. I've also seen guys crash trying to keep up. I don't give a flying crap how fast you can ride when 10 bikes are following you on a ride YOU organized!
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I have done only a few rides with over six bikes... even led one. Prefer to ride with a group of three or four...you can ride your own ride that way. Picked some good pointers in this thread
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Lots of good info in this thread, many miles of riding represented by a bunch of folks.
One other thing, the riders I ride with will not hesitate to point out to someone that they felt did something dangerous. We don't get old riding bikes being foolish. Bikes are fun, visiting with folks from areas we go through is also part of the fun, being safe is the most important part of the trip.
If you feel the need for speed, schedule some track days, get some instruction at the track. You will be surprised how much better you will ride on the streets and most likely slower and safer.
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Like boat ownership, picnics, Russian literature and jazz, group riding is a lot more enjoyable in concept than in its reality.
I've been on only two large ones--a Distinguished Gentlemen's Ride, and a Harley-focused charity ride--and I peeled away after about a mile. Slow and dangerous is the opposite of how I like to ride.
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Rule number 1 for all group rides : Everyone starts with an empty bladder and a FULL tank! Fuel stops are planed with the bike with the shortest range in mind. At fuel stops everyone should pee and fill up again, so everyone stays in sync. ....
This is SO hard to enforce, among a group of friends. You can't "make" people hurry up, or be ready to go.
When you stop, it can be a nightmare. You THINK everyone's ready to go, but there's one guy still on the hopper, or still topping up his oil. So when the leader switches his engine off, everyone else does too, then some guys take off their helmets, then ....
.... Then the guy you were waiting for is ready, but now someone ELSE has gone back into the store for something, or his bike won't start, and you have to wait for HIM, and then .....
And if someone breaks down, EVERYONE wants to stop and help, and the shoulder is crowded with bikes, and you get the broken guy going, but now everyone else has to get their gear on, get their bike turned around .....
Alone is best.
Lannis
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There was a time when I was living in Auckland that I did a lot of riding with a particular friend. His beautiful BSA Lightning would rumble up my drive before dawn on a Saturday morning and despite my best efforts to continue sleeping off Friday nights excesses I would be shaken into full consciousness with him saying "C'mon, where are we going this weekend?" It got so that I could be on the road in 15 minutes and we would be having breakfast a couple of hundred miles away.
In general we would ride with enough separation that each was just another vehicle on the road but there were times when we would close up for one reason or another.
Our rule was that the rear bike was responsible for staying clear of the one in front, and,when closed up, the rear bike would ride in the front bikes mirror. That is, so that the rear rider could see the front riders face in the front riders mirror. That way the rear rider could be sure that the front one knew where he was.
Of course we passed each other from time to time but that was just the same as passing anything else.
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Riding with a group of folks that are competent is great fun . Maybe the best advice is to remind others to check their mirrors on a regular basis . Seems simple , but I have observed many MClists that never ever check behind them , riding as if they are the only one on the road . Situational awareness is paramount to safe MCling .
Dusty
I am normally not all that much of a fan of group riding but it is really nice and helpful to be able to follow good leads on unfamiliar roads. I really appreciated Dusty, Lowrider, and Rocker 57 leads. The ride through the Talimina, OK Mountains was very enjoyable and though spirited it was comfortable. At any time if I would have felt I was getting in over my head I would have been just fine backing off and also knowing the leads would pull over somewhere ahead and wait if needed. Beautiful area and great riding for a flatlander.
GliderJohn
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There was a time when I was living in Auckland that I did a lot of riding with a particular friend. His beautiful BSA Lightning would rumble up my drive before dawn on a Saturday morning and ........ we would be having breakfast a couple of hundred miles away.
Surprisingly enough, there are those who think that's not really achievable with old Brits ..... But it is, and it's enjoyable, and you don't have to spend more time working on the bike than you do riding it ....
Lannis
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My best group rides were when we'd meet up as a group for breakfast, split up into smaller groups, then get together again later in the day. And even then, the smaller groups would sometimes splinter.
Rich
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I've ridden with Guzzi groups and faster guys riding sportbikes. Best is probably 2 to 4 that are riding about the same speed on the same types of bikes. You're not going to push a group of Calis too fast. The Spineframe guys break off in two groups, moderate and swift. Then there are the sports guys I ride with in Arkansas that are on it and about as fast as I want to go. And then are the fast guys that I don't try to follow.
I've also ridden in huge gaggles (mainly Harleys) in groups of 20 - 200+ riding really slow and scaring me to death. That Gentleman's ride bunch is just below the danger line of this type.
I remember that Michael D and I were riding our Californias with Al Harris and his friend Eddie (on his Electra Glide) to Ark Rally. Eddie was so slow that we'd pull over after fifteen minutes of riding apart. We were lighting our second cigarettes when they got to us. Now whenever I ride with Al's friends they all have a big laugh when they are joking about Michael and I waiting for Eddie. I wonder what they would even think about my Arkansas group?
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I basically don't do group rides. Don't enjoy them; think it's needlessly dangerous.
Yup, that is basically me too, but then I don't even 'joy-ride' that much and in nearly 40 years of riding I can't remember riding in a group larger than 2 or 3. I love riding my bike, and look forwards to it greatly, but pretty much always use it to get me from 'A' to 'B'. To work...or visit friends....or go shopping or whatever, but can't remember the last time I just went for a ride for the fun of it...
But I guess I have a bit of a question: Around here in the summer, there seem to be as many 'groups' as single-riders. The groups always seem to be either riding way faster than me....or way slower. When they are faster, I just let them go, but am never sure whether to just hold my normal riding line and make them go around....or to slow down, move over and wave them through. Sometimes I will do one and sometimes the other, depending on conditions, mood etc.
But it is harder when they are slower. I don't ride the Cali that fast, but I really don't want to dawdle behind a big group of cruisers, nattering away on their intercoms, with flags flying, often really close, even two abreast. Just not my kind of riding - spoils the fun. But never sure of how to get through the group. I feel uncomfortable sitting within their group and often don't feel that safe. This can lead to my riding a bit faster than I would normally, to just get through them as soon as possible. Sometimes I feel they don't like my coming through, which can make it worse. There can be those feelings of machismo also, from both within me and their group, which adds to the angst. I notice in this situation, that often I am most concerned by bikes acting erratically and wish they would just ride their normal course, rather than slow and wave me through. All this of course is highly dependent on the group, the conditions, the road etc....
...but I am sure you get the drift. Thoughts?
eib
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Suffice to say that the phrase, "group riding", and the word, "safety", should not be used in the sam sentence.
It makes it an oxymoron because of the morons in the group.
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One thing I try to do when encountering them is to act as friendly as possible, giving nods, waves, and thumbs up, so they don't get to aggressive with someone breaking their ranks. Disarm them, if you will.
The very fact that people riding in "groups" on the bikes they like to ride have to be "disarmed", and you have to grin and smile and bob your head and wave and all that happy horseshyte .... why? So you won't be assaulted on the road with a deadly weapon by a fellow "motorcyclist"? Because you passed them on the road, legally? So you won't get your arse kicked because you "disrespected" them?
Who are those people anyway? Fellow "bikers"? "Brothers in the Wind"? Or small minded criminals on a power trip on the highway?
Lannis
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Maybe riders without much in the skills and experience department on bikes that aren't set up the best (Ape Hangers and extreme forward controls), that can be a bit intimidated by another bike taking a space they thought was a rigid barrier around them, causing them to fall out of their comfort zone? :wink:
I agree, but are we really concerned that we're going to be beat up by a group of 1%'ers if we pass a random group of apehangers and concho barges on Sunday afternoon?
I remember the viral video of the Harley passing the Winnebago in the mountains and immediately running off the road into a ravine. On the audio, a girl in the RV asks if they should stop and help. The driver says "If we stop, they'll kick our asses".
Really?
Lannis
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Rule number one when riding with others. DON'T HIT THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!
Bill
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Most people do not understand the doppler effect of motor vehicles and traffic flow. A rider following the moves of the rider in front of him is always braking and speeding up to keep the same pace as the lead. The average speed may be the same, but the rider following has a slower average speed and a higher average speed compared to the leader. Now stack additional riders behind the leader and the spread becomes larger. If I ride with other riders, I tell them ride your bike and I will ride mine. Do not try to keep up with me or let me know where we are going and I will be there soon after you arrive. Like Dad said, you can't push a chain, it will pile up.
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Rule number one when riding with others. DON'T HIT THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!
Bill
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Most people do not understand the doppler effect of motor vehicles and traffic flow. A rider following the moves of the rider in front of him is always braking and speeding up to keep the same pace as the lead. The average speed may be the same, but the rider following has a slower average speed and a higher average speed compared to the leader. Now stack additional riders behind the leader and the spread becomes larger. If I ride with other riders, I tell them ride your bike and I will ride mine. Do not try to keep up with me or let me know where we are going and I will be there soon after you arrive. Like Dad said, you can't push a chain, it will pile up.
Right on, John. When a few of us fly formation, (in airplanes.. :smiley:) the fastest airplane is always in the back for this very reason.
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Right on, John. When a few of us fly formation, (in airplanes.. :smiley:) the fastest airplane is always in the back for this very reason.
Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? :grin:
Dusty
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Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? :grin:
Dusty
Dusty, I don't know about the speeding, but the loud pipes on some of the smaller planes must be saving a lot of lives.
Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft? I have never heard of any. I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago.
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Dusty, I don't know about the speeding, but the loud pipes on some of the smaller planes must be saving a lot of lives.
Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft? I have never heard of any. I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago.
That's funny OG :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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No, I really don't worry about a group trying to run me off the road or chase me down and beat me up. I just try not to be too controversial. Except of course when talking to Lowryter about Rossi/Marquez and Grom's. :grin:
My meager skills on the mountain roads have deemed me to be labeled to ride in the "Grom's class".
And as I say, there are the fast guys that I just let go and I ride my own ride. :bike-037:
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My meager skills on the mountain roads have deemed me to be labeled to ride in the "Grom's class".
And as I say, there are the fast guys that I just let go and I ride my own ride. :bike-037:
You do just fine Johnny :bike-037: No such thing as an old stupid motorbike rider ...
Dusty
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You do just fine Johnny :bike-037: No such thing as an old stupid motorbike rider ...
Dusty
you haven't ridden with me in the mountains
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you haven't ridden with me in the mountains
Your memory is getting short :shocked:
Dusty
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Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? :grin:
Yep, Mouser stalls at 62.. :smiley:
Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft? I have never heard of any. I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago.
Not yet.. in the US. When we visited England several years ago, there was a noise limit at the aerodrome. After so many operations the airport was closed. (!) There were villages you couldn't fly over. That sort of thing. Much of what you hear from small aircraft is propeller noise. Not much you can do about that.
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Can't call that "parade" over Talihina drive "riding in the mountains"! :evil:
I've led and followed John several times, just the two of us, through NW Arkansas and SW Missouri. He's no "Yellow God" (to repeat a phrase), but he ain't slow by any standards either. :copcar:
OK then , I promise not to hold back next time , didn't want to get you flatlanders in over your heads :evil: Heck , I'll ride the /5 just to make it fair ...
Dusty
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I do think it would be a blast to get the gang at a go-cart track with a bunch of Groms! :bike-037:
What's your location? Some friends and I have semi-regular track days at the go-kart/supermoto track at Virginia International Raceway. Groms would be fine. I take my DT100, and most of the others are supermotos.
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What's your location? Some friends and I have semi-regular track days at the go-kart/supermoto track at Virginia International Raceway. Groms would be fine. I take my DT100, and most of the others are supermotos.
About 1500 miles West of you Jim :laugh: Maybe some enterprising (read as crazy) person could open a small track and rent out Groms ... :grin:
Dusty
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Thanks Dusty. Seems like the "location" slots in the members' profiles haven't recovered since the board upgrade.