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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: acogoff on November 14, 2015, 03:57:10 PM
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Just wondering if anyone has received their new credit card with the high zoot imbedded chip yet. I thought the dead line was like Nov. 1. Stores still take my magnetic strip card so not a problem so far. Just wondering.
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I've had them for a while now.
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I've got'm but don't know what if anything makes them better. They all work off PFM anyway.
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I'v got them, some stores use them as intended, most still swiping.
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You will have mag stripe for a long time. All my cards have the EMV chip, one has NFC too-which will likely be the way of the future, and the future will be pretty soon.
There was no requirement for merchants to change their equipment, though you'd never know it.
Funny little story-a year ago I bought a good amount of EMV capable terminals with the express purpose of GIVING them away to gain new business. One year later, there was no change in the number of new clients, but when CBS made a newscast about DEADLINE-WILL AMERICA'S MERCHANTS BE READY-well, I have been selling them all, and can't keep up with demand.
There is the value of publicity.
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Just wondering if anyone has received their new credit card with the high zoot imbedded chip yet. I thought the dead line was like Nov. 1. Stores still take my magnetic strip card so not a problem so far. Just wondering.
You should have received it by now.
As a by the way...
The Chip-and-signature (not Chip-and-PIN) cards that have been issued to Americans (our man acogoff being an exception) work better than I'd expect in Europe. Every card reader I used had the sense to know that a signature was required, so the transaction went off without a hitch. The mag-stripe-only cards were becoming almost unusable. I had several places tell me "we don't take American cards." So, that's good.
The improvement is tempered by that fact that we still cannot use these new cards to buy fuel at the un-manned service stations that are quite common in France and pretty common in Italy. You're out of luck if that's all you have. For that reason, I carry a true Chip-and-PIN cash card when in Europe (and suffer the poor rate-of-exchange).
I finally found a person at Bank of America who really knew the issue, and was told "Bank of America does not offer a Chip-and-PIN card and there are no current plans to do so."
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Just received mine three days ago.
GliderJohn
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Just returned from Tasmania. My striped cards were worthless. My chip cards automatically printed out a 'signature' slip and then a duplicate receipt for me.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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As usual, we're backward here in Indiana. None of our cards have chips yet. <shrug>
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I've had my AMX card with chip for almost two years. Most small merchants don't have the slot to receive the new cards - yet.
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I've got mine.
Now when I use a card at some stores it's a puzzle of figuring out a magnetic strip, chip read, stylus on a touch screen and a numerical keyboard on the same reader.
I love cash.
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Here in Canada we have been using chip cards for a couple of years, a lot of the readers also accept the RF cards as well. Beware of the bank cards that say VISA on them that aren't real Visa, you can buy on line with them but they won't operate a machine, I know this because I got a $70 parking ticket when I thought I had paid the meter.
It's hard to purchase gas South of the border, no two gas stations seem to have the same requirements.
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The PIN vs signature thing-the message as to whether it needs a PIN or signature comes from the issuing bank. US machines allow a PIN buypass.
US banks have decided the PIN would cause a drop in card usage so have decided to go signature all the way.
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I finally found a person at Bank of America who really knew the issue, and was told "Bank of America does not offer a Chip-and-PIN card and there are no current plans to do so."
Another good reason to fire Bank of America and move on.
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,last I heard was chip card bank retains the risk of fraud, if merchant doesn't use chip they now get the risk of fraud.
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The liability shift is so narrow as to be nearly moot.
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Thank you for the replies. Maybe mastercard has become wisely gun shy reacting to any new government mandated rulings. My experience at least in dealing with AD notes issued by the FAA and dealings with the Farm Service Agency is that they change rules midstream more often then not and reacting too quickly is just like throwing money into the ditch.
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Daniel, where did you buy your Chip and PIN cash card?
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The PIN vs signature thing-the message as to whether it needs a PIN or signature comes from the issuing bank. US machines allow a PIN buypass.
US banks have decided the PIN would cause a drop in card usage so have decided to go signature all the way.
I just used my chip card at Home Depot to get a mail box post this past week. It asked me for a pin. No signature was required.
John Henry
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Daniel, where did you buy your Chip and PIN cash card?
Travelex https://www.multicurrencycashpassport.com/travelexus (https://www.multicurrencycashpassport.com/travelexus)
You can preload it with multiple currencies and reload it along the way if needed. It has full Chip and PIN and I've used it multiple times at the self-service pumps with no issues (where my American card would fail). Their currency exchange rates are not neutral; that's how they make money on the things.
For Euro travel; it's been a big help to me. I no longer need to beg somebody to pump gas for me on their card in exchange for cash that I'll hand over to them (I've had to do that a few times).
(http://www.dankalal.net/wildgoose/travelexcard.jpg)
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I just used my chip card at Home Depot to get a mail box post this past week. It asked me for a pin. No signature was required.
John Henry
Yeah; some are doing that (where the PIN is your ATM PIN). It feels like a true Chip-and-PIN, but it's not. If you use that same card in Europe, you'll be asked for a signature (and it won't be accepted at a fuel pump).
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Another good reason to fire Bank of America and move on.
My Bank of America card, provided by AAA, has had the chip for quite some time now. :thumb:
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My Bank of America card, provided by AAA, has had the chip for quite some time now. :thumb:
A chip, yes; but, it's not a Chip-and-PIN and it won't be accepted as one in Europe.
(I only bring this up as it's been a cause of much annoyance to me and the cause of many phone calls to banking people who didn't know the details of what they were offering. Putting a chip in the card was the first step--and, a good one. Why the American companies chose to stop there isn't really clear to me--apart from some possible extra cost to them and merchants.)
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Why the American companies chose to stop there isn't really clear to me--apart from some possible extra cost to them and merchants.)
As mentioned earlier, it was a marketing decision. Issuers felt that moving fully to Chip-and-PIN would lead to a poor cardholder experience, resulting in loosing customers as those customers would migrate to issuers offering only Chip-and-signature. Weird since chip-and-pin has been deployed in Europe and Canada for years without cardholder problems.
The basis for improved card-present security and reduced fraud is the triumvirate of chip/NFC technology, tokenization and point-to-point encryption. This still leaves the low hanging fruit of card-not-present fraud, so there will be a shift in the future with reduced CP fraud and increased CNP fraud.
The liability shift occurred Oct 1, 2015. Now, the merchant is liable for fraud loss if the transaction was not chip/NFC based. And the loss to the merchant is not limited just to the cost of the merchandise; they get crippling Brand fines if their chargeback rates go over a threshold.
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This technology was to be fully implemented by October 2014. Didn't happen as you can see. The merchants and processors have not converted the POS/point of sale terminal in all locations across the U.S. So even if you have the updated card, the retailer's may not have the processing equipment. There is a cost to the processors and merchants to make these changes. A terminal is $375 or more. Then you have cash registers and gas pumps, atms and vending equipment that has to be up dated. Not a small task, not cheap.
I have been in the POS business since 1994. It is big business. It is full of fraud in more ways than skimming customers accounts or stealing personal information. There is a push right now to do away with pay at the pump gas. The gas distributors usually own the pumps, tanks fuel and the processing equipment. Paying a merchant cents on the gallon for the fuel sold. The pumps cannot be secured and are hacked regularly. Not just at the pump, but at the cat.5 cable running from the pump to the modem in the building. Walk around the old gas station/grocery in the small town near you. You will see the conduit from the gas pumps are exposed and the green or blue cat. 5 exposed to the world.
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I've had a chipped card from MasterCard for almost 2 years now .
Very few merchants are set up for the chip cards .
To tell if the card reader will accept a chipped card, you insert it at the bottom of the device, chip end first .
When this technology is finally complete, the merchant will be responsible for fraudulent charges, not the card issuing financial company .
May be why it isn't widely used yet !!!
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If the US market had accepted chip-and-pin and if the pumps were equipped with chip readers instead of mag readers, the authorization request would be encrypted at the point of interaction (ie. the security element within the reader). Since chip-and-signature is used, the opportunity for card present fraud still exists. The criminals are getting so good, they can faithfully simulate the front of an unattended kiosk like a gas pump or ATM such that the skimmer is almost undetectable to the naked eye. Interested in reading about this stuff? Krebs on Security (http://krebsonsecurity.com/).
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Here in europe is all chip-and-pin. My Visa card has it and my bank card. Both can be used in europe and usa. New thing rolling out over the european countries is the contactless payment, for things up to 25 euro. You only hold the card against the machine and no pin needed. It works much faster. One card for everything.
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It amuses me when I'm standing in line at the cash lane of a store and the person in front of me attempts to pay for a multi-hundred dollar transaction using a card tap. I think "Do you have any idea WTF you just attempted to do?"
If you read your cardholder agreement, an NFC transaction type has an implicit authorization clause, whereby you have agreed to be liable for any charge up to the issuing bank-imposed limit. If that limit was not imposed upon you by the issuing bank, anyone who stole your card could go on a shopping spree just by tapping at the checkout and you'd be fully liable for the transactions because you pre-authorized them. The burden of proof would be upon you to show that you were not the one who did the transaction. All the more reason to report lost or stolen cards immediately.
Also, a change occurred to the cardholder agreement for chip-and-pin whereby you waive indemnification for chip based transactions. That means you have a much harder time contesting the transaction if the pin was supplied at the time of the transaction. The outcome depends alot on the relationship you have with your cardholder bank. There is cardholder liability limit of $50 for fraudulent transactions for card swipes. I'm not sure what the liability situation is for US cardholders who are using chip-and-signature. Anyone know?
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I have two BofA cards that have the chip. No pin. Just got my replacement Target Visa yesterday. I went from a Visa to a MasterCard, it has the chip and I had to go to Targets website and chose a PIN number.
We're headed to Thailand in two months, I was only going to bring the two B of A cards (mainly because I earn Alaska Airline mileage), maybe I'll bring the Target one along as well.
What irritates me is that I opened up a checking account with my local bank expressly for use as a travel debit card. The card they sent has no chip on it. Apparently, none of their credit cards have them either.
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I have two BofA cards that have the chip. No pin. Just got my replacement Target Visa yesterday. I went from a Visa to a MasterCard, it has the chip and I had to go to Targets website and chose a PIN number.
We're headed to Thailand in two months, I was only going to bring the two B of A cards (mainly because I earn Alaska Airline mileage), maybe I'll bring the Target one along as well.
What irritates me is that I opened up a checking account with my local bank expressly for use as a travel debit card. The card they sent has no chip on it. Apparently, none of their credit cards have them either.
Redundant remark b4 reading all above posts.
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BoA replaced my magnetic-only Visa card with a "chip & sig" card back in the spring.
It's been in a chip reader exactly one time ! LOL!
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Got mine back at start of year, had my identity stolen 2 days later. The card was in my wallet when it happened. BMO HARRIS said I was the first new style chipped card of theirs stolen in the country. It was in my pocket when it got used at a jewelry store to the tune of $2000.00, and other smaller purchases. Luckily, my wife told them that the proof I didn't do it was the fact that it was at a jewelry store, if it were motorcycle parts she would believe it.
3 months later the replacement was stolen the same way again, while it was in my wallet. This time at a Home Depot an hour away, a bunch of gift cards. Again,I was on video at work during the theft, got money back after a bigger hassle this time around
In both cases I wanted them found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I know there is video at a jewelry store at the very least. But they were NO HELP, they even retried to push the purchase through even after I and the police told them not to, but they don't care, a sale is a sale to them. Both times the police never followed up, and when I did, they told me I got the money back, so why worry? Thanks a whole effin lot. Too much hassle doing your job, or...?
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Got mine back at start of year, had my identity stolen 2 days later. The card was in my wallet when it happened. BMO HARRIS said I was the first new style chipped card of theirs stolen in the country. It was in my pocket when it got used at a jewelry store to the tune of $2000.00, and other smaller purchases. Luckily, my wife told them that the proof I didn't do it was the fact that it was at a jewelry store, if it were motorcycle parts she would believe it.
3 months later the replacement was stolen the same way again, while it was in my wallet. This time at a Home Depot an hour away, a bunch of gift cards. Again,I was on video at work during the theft, got money back after a bigger hassle this time around
In both cases I wanted them found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I know there is video at a jewelry store at the very least. But they were NO HELP, they even retried to push the purchase through even after I and the police told them not to, but they don't care, a sale is a sale to them. Both times the police never followed up, and when I did, they told me I got the money back, so why worry? Thanks a whole effin lot. Too much hassle doing your job, or...?
Maybe this is a case where your card info. can be had magnetically by a walker by if it isn't protected by a metal barrier while not being used by yourself. I get protected from that happening by putting all my CCs in an aluminum holder that cost me $1 at my local 99 cent store. My wallet now has no CCs in it for protection. My CCs are in my shirt pocket, front pant pocket, or MC jacket pocket now.
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It's a fallacy to believe that the last place you used your card was the place where it got compromised. It could have gotten compromised weeks or months prior to its fraudulent use. The issuing bank most times don't know when a card got compromised and definitely would not reveal that information to the cardholder if they did.
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It amuses me when I'm standing in line at the cash lane of a store and the person in front of me attempts to pay for a multi-hundred dollar transaction using a card tap. I think "Do you have any idea WTF you just attempted to do?"
If you read your cardholder agreement, an NFC transaction type has an implicit authorization clause, whereby you have agreed to be liable for any charge up to the issuing bank-imposed limit. If that limit was not imposed upon you by the issuing bank, anyone who stole your card could go on a shopping spree just by tapping at the checkout and you'd be fully liable for the transactions because you pre-authorized them. The burden of proof would be upon you to show that you were not the one who did the transaction. All the more reason to report lost or stolen cards immediately.
Also, a change occurred to the cardholder agreement for chip-and-pin whereby you waive indemnification for chip based transactions. That means you have a much harder time contesting the transaction if the pin was supplied at the time of the transaction. The outcome depends alot on the relationship you have with your cardholder bank. There is cardholder liability limit of $50 for fraudulent transactions for card swipes. I'm not sure what the liability situation is for US cardholders who are using chip-and-signature. Anyone know?
Though there is the $50 limit for CREDIT (not debit) I don't know any US bank that would even charge a carholder that much.
NFC here has no limit, especially with Apple and Google. Though there is a war going on with MCX keeping NFC out of member stores if they want to stay in the MCX group.
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You're right; most issuing banks won't charge the cardholder the liability limit because the potential loss of reputation is much greater than $50. Although NFC based, Google Wallet and ApplePay are not pre-authorized payment mechanisms. Both require you to authorize the payment at the time of the sale by providing your 4-digit PIN or TouchID. Both may have the option of pre-authorization for transactions below a certain limit.
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True on ApplePay et al, but my Amex NFC card will work quite well for whatever-I've had that for maybe 10-12 years when NFC made a failed attempt to enter the US market.
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Maybe this is a case where your card info. can be had magnetically by a walker by if it isn't protected by a metal barrier while not being used by yourself. I get protected from that happening by putting all my CCs in an aluminum holder that cost me $1 at my local 99 cent store. My wallet now has no CCs in it for protection. My CCs are in my shirt pocket, front pant pocket, or MC jacket pocket now.
Yeah, I'm definitely not a "techy", so the school of hard knocks got another tuition payment, and I have a cool new card holder now.
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As usual, we're backward here in Indiana. None of our cards have chips yet. <shrug>
Damn, I was wondering why those new cards had the name "Chuck" on them. Please pay the balance so I can continue using the card, I hate being outed by the clerks. :boozing: