Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on November 18, 2015, 08:05:38 PM
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http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/ignition
Looks like Victory is catching some pollen from its Indian sibling.
Many wonder if Victory will continue beside the Indian.
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Victory Dealers seem to think the brand is doing just fine thank you. But after Indian came out, I have a very hard time looking at a Victory in the same light. She has turned into the ugly stepsister of the two. A buddy has the big touring Victory model and he loves it on the open road so I must assume there is a niche market for it. It will be very interesting to see what Polaris does with the brands.
I'd be tempted to make it a custom low volume unit, come out with a small inline four for Indian and maybe bring back the Crocker. :D
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That's potentially exciting!
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Victory Scout! There's a bit of miscegenation going on.
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Makes you wonder what the Guzzi crowd would do if Guzzi brought out a radical redo for the Goose. :D
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I'm wanting for a retro CBX. :evil:
(http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/~/media/Images/MCC/Editorial/Articles/Magazine%20Articles/2009/09-01/The%20Honda%20CBX%201000/Honda-Right-side.jpg)
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Looks..diavel-ish. :evil:
(Someone had to do it.)
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It is a copy of the Polaris Pike's Peak bike .
Dusty
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Well it's about time Victory came up with a bike w/o that butt ugly Arlen Ness influence. Great bikes, great power plant, but gawd awful to look @.
But that's just me.................
js
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Not bad...
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Victory-Ignition-Concept.jpg)
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I like it! :thumb:
It is a copy of the Polaris Pike's Peak bike .
Dusty
Uh, yeah.... no, not so much.
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I knew the engine was going to be Scout based, but I'm surprised it has a Scout-or Scout type- frame.
Marzocchi forks?!
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I knew the engine was going to be Scout based, but I'm surprised it has a Scout-or Scout type- frame.
Well, I'm sure you already know, the Scout uses a type of modular frame with the motor as a stressed member. And when it was introduced it was speculated that part of the reason was for easy repurposing to other types of bikes.
Those could be the same front and rear members, or one/both could also be unique in some way.
At a glance I would guess similar, but unique.
Scout:
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/080614top2.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/080614top3.png)
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I knew the engine was going to be Scout based, but I'm surprised it has a Scout-or Scout type- frame.
:1:
After the "Project 156" bike, I was expecting, and hoping for, something more in the XR1200X style. But, I have to admin, I do like it. The dark grey with the red wheels looks great.
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Looking at pics of this and the Scout, I just noticed that the Victory has dual front discs vs. the Scout's single. :thumb:
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I have come to prefer a single disc brake on the Scout, it has plenty of power and makes tire pressure checks/adjustents much easier. Also like the mufflers on one side, I can see that a belt change or tire removal will be minutes to do.
Ye, I'm aware of the frame structure and the visible frame piece on the Victory looks to be identical to the Scout. This is a good thing.
Interesting times, these. I wonder whaat the price will be
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Looking further into it-it is being callled a concept. Rear suspension travel 76mm, so same as Scout, which makes me think it is still belt drive.
And foot controls are the same as the Scout. I like them where they are on my bike, but not where I'd want them on a sport bike.
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I like it! :thumb:
Uh, yeah.... no, not so much.
The same way that the "Camel" Hondas or the MHR Ducati was a copy , maybe Replica is a better word .
Dusty
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Ye, I'm aware of the frame structure and the visible frame piece on the Victory looks to be identical to the Scout. This is a good thing.
No, if it was identical it would have that rounded-triangular indent in the steering neck molding (visible in the Scout frame diagrams I posted, as well as in most photos of a Scout, though partially obscured by the fuel tank).
The fact that it is absent means SOMETHING is different and it's probably not just that indent, wouldn't you agree?
I have come to prefer a single disc brake on the Scout, it has plenty of power and makes tire pressure checks/adjustents much easier. Also like the mufflers on one side, I can see that a belt change or tire removal will be minutes to do.
Not me, no thanks. A lack of dual discs is probably my biggest peeve with some bikes, the Scout included. A simple angled valve stem solves any problems with checking/adjusting tire pressure.
And foot controls are the same as the Scout. I like them where they are on my bike, but not where I'd want them on a sport bike.
I'm not sure I've ever seen your Scout with the foot controls relocated, so it moves them back under that air cleaner looking thing instead of under that front cylinder?
Interesting, but yeah, not an ideal placement for a "Sport Bike" I would think they could have done something better in that department but looks like that exhaust is in the way.
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Cool- I like it. Now THIS is a smart way to split things up in a company. Plenty of retro with the Indian line. The Victory line can introduce edgy, new designs to explore the market and move things forward. ...and all the while, no one can say that this is just copying Harley. They are blazing their own trail. Excellent!
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It is a copy of the Polaris Pike's Peak bike .
Dusty
Cosmetically.
The race bike had a single-sided swingarm and rearset pegs.
This thing has a twin shock swingarm, low seat, and forwards.
It's not the sporty standard the Project 156 race bike fans were hoping for.
It's just another FF pirate ship.
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Cosmetically.
The race bike had a single-sided swingarm and rearset pegs.
This thing has a twin shock swingarm, low seat, and forwards.
It's not the sporty standard the Project 156 race bike fans were hoping for.
It's just another FF pirate ship.
The same way that the "Camel" Hondas or the MHR Ducati was a copy , maybe Replica is a better word .
Dusty
True , never said it was anything more . Tried and true marketing ploy , but then the whole "Indian" thing is nothing but that .
Dusty
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Cosmetically.
The race bike had a single-sided swingarm and rearset pegs.
This thing has a twin shock swingarm, low seat, and forwards.
It's not the sporty standard the Project 156 race bike fans were hoping for.
It's just another FF pirate ship.
Well, it IS a one-off CONCEPT bike.
BUT it suggests they are planning something with a new chassis on the Scout motor:
From the Press Kit:
http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/vic/2016/d...kit-nate-mr.pdf (http://"http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/vic/2016/documents/2015-ignition-press-kit-nate-mr.pdf")
“Our new engine along with Urs’ Victory® Ignition Concept and
future concepts to debut in New York City will plot the direction
not only of a fantastic new platform, but of this brand. We will
continue to design and build the best cruisers in the class.”
It's a concept, but sounds like they have plans for a production chassis.
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Indian is working the edges of the market and making holes for new riders 999cc, $8999 usd.
I don't see a paper clip for .jpg pic attachment? poncho
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http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/vic/2016/d...kit-nate-mr.pdf (http://"http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/vic/2016/documents/2015-ignition-press-kit-nate-mr.pdf")
“Our new engine along with Urs’ Victory® Ignition Concept and
future concepts to debut in New York City will plot the direction
not only of a fantastic new platform, but of this brand. We will
continue to design and build the best cruisers in the class.”
It's a concept, but sounds like they have plans for a production chassis.
Key word: cruisers
I know that cruisers are the meat and potatoes of the USA market, but the Project 156 race bike got a lot of non-cruiser people fired up about Victory. This FF restyled Scout they showed has turned all those fans off.
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I don't see a paper clip for .jpg pic attachment? poncho
You have to host it somewhere else:
(http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2016/img/vehicles/overview/new-model-pages/photos/scout-sixty/photo-3.jpg)
Visually almost identical to the Scout, but cheaper price and a little less power (and available in Pearl White which is nice).
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Key word: cruisers
I know that cruisers are the meat and potatoes of the USA market, but the Project 156 race bike got a lot of non-cruiser people fired up about Victory. This FF restyled Scout they showed has turned all those fans off.
Why such a pessimist today?
They did say plot the direction of the brand... meaning they are looking to make some changes. That doesn't preclude something more, uhhh, standard.
Time will tell.
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I like the looks of it, but would also like to see it out on the street rather than in a carefully controlled studio & image processing. Might look quite different.
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Visually almost identical to the Scout, but cheaper price and a little less power (and available in Pearl White which is nice).
specs. it appears to be the same bike (why retool for different parts?) with a set of smaller pistons.. much like the hardley 883/1200. yes there are small differences. poncho
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H
specs. it appears to be the same bike (why retool for different parts?) with a set of smaller pistons.. much like the HARLEY 883/1200. yes there are small differences. poncho
FIXored but otherwise Yup, that's exactly it.
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Why such a pessimist today?
They did say plot the direction of the brand... meaning they are looking to make some changes. That doesn't preclude something more, uhhh, standard.
Time will tell.
I, and a bunch of sporty bike people, thought they would release the 156 bike in a form close to what the race bike was.
It was a big let-down to see what they showed with the "156" moniker at the show.
The negative tone is just disappointment.
Polaris/Victory/Indian is kicking ass, and I am glad to see them doing well.
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^^^^^ yeah, me, too. I was expecting "performance bike.."
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^^^^^ yeah, me, too. I was expecting "performance bike.."
Just curious , what in the history of Polarindianvictory made you guys think they will ever build a performance bike ? That market is fairly small , and the competition is tough .
Dusty
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Just curious , what in the history of Polarindianvictory made you guys think they will ever build a performance bike ? That market is fairly small , and the competition is tough .
Dusty
Oh, you know... Victory's race team and PR machine?
http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/project-156
http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/29/victory-motorcycle-project-156-race-report-pikes-peak/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FpNU8bFAqU
(http://www.truewheeler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-victory-project-156-pikes-peak-roland-sands-exposed-3-1000x562.jpg)
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Oh, you know... Victory's race team and PR machine?
http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/project-156
http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/29/victory-motorcycle-project-156-race-report-pikes-peak/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FpNU8bFAqU
(http://www.truewheeler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-victory-project-156-pikes-peak-roland-sands-exposed-3-1000x562.jpg)
Well yeah , but wasn't that really just for marketing purposes . HD spent millions on the VR1000 racebike , and we got the Vrod , which even the Harley guys won't buy . At least PIV had the good sense to only spend what it took to mount a hillclimb effort . My guess is the only "fast" PIV we are gonna see is a flat track derivative , using only the Scout motor . That only takes about 100 HP to be competitive .
Dusty
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I, and a bunch of sporty bike people, thought they would release the 156 bike in a form close to what the race bike was.
It was a big let-down to see what they showed with the "156" moniker at the show.
The negative tone is just disappointment.
Polaris/Victory/Indian is kicking ass, and I am glad to see them doing well.
I know, but THIS isn't a release, it's a concept built by a swiss bike builder.
I mean Marzocchi forks, Ohlins suspension, Monobloc Brembo, etc.
But don't get caught up in the fact that Victory will continue to make cruisers, just the fact that they're making anything with this means it should be different enough from the Scout to maybe be something more interesting.
And even if they do come out with a modern Victory cruiser version of the Scout, that doesn't preclude them from coming out with something more sporting in the future.
Time will tell, be an optimist.
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Well then, here's hoping Indian will come out with a water cooled twin that Guzzi should have done, style it right and we can all buy American again. :drool:
Or Victory. I ain't picky. :boozing:
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I'm excited to see where this concept bike will go with Polaris/Victory/Indian. I would prefer a bike with the ergos of the race bike though. The concept bike ergos remind me to much like the Harley Vrod Night Rod Special. Nice to look at, but a torture rack to sit on. A long reach to both the pegs and bars.
Randy
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I'm excited to see where this concept bike will go with Polaris/Victory/Indian. I would prefer a bike with the ergos of the race bike though. The concept bike ergos remind me to much like the Harley Vrod Night Rod Special. Nice to look at, but a torture rack to sit on. A long reach to both the pegs and bars.
Randy
All I can say is, " uh...yeah."
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I am already thinking about my next new bike purchase: it will likely be a light weight sport-touring machine with a relatively low seat height (at least not as high as on all of the new pseudo-adventure bikes like the YAM FJ-09), maybe 80-90 rear wheel HP, very nibble, and full of soul (whatever the F___ that means; I guess it might mean V-twin). COULD Polaris produce such a machine...certainly . But will they, or will any other manufacturer? I don't know. I now own a BMW F800GT, which is a great bike, but something is lacking....I just don't get as much pleasure out of riding it as I get out of riding my aging Norge.
Jon
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I now own a BMW F800GT, which is a great bike, but something is lacking....
:cool:
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An interesting concept, but with a different exhaust and foot pegs back where they belong, it could be a very cool bike. Why have good frame and suspension bits and put the pegs up front in the wind..... I guess it works for folks with wooden legs (no offense intended to those Guzzi riders with wooden legs)
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I don't know. I now own a BMW F800GT, which is a great bike, but something is lacking....I just don't get as much pleasure out of riding it as I get out of riding my aging Norge.
I replaced my Breva 1100 with an F800GT. It's a great bike, with very good riding dynamics, but, the engine is boring sounding compared to a big block Guzzi.
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I'm still riding my B1100, and wow, it just hits all my buttons! It's the motor man, it an't no lump, it's a living bit of metal!
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Modern BMWs are APPLIANCES.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's enough to keep me off them.
I want to ride a MOTORcycle, not a toaster.
If anyone remembers my first posts when I bought the Jackal in 2003, I said that Guzzi blended the tech/design of BMW (longitudinal crankshaft/dry clutch/shaft, EFI, Brembo) with the visceral nature/feel/passion (V-twin, torque, attention to form/design) of a Harley.
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I wonder what a ADV bike from polaris/victory/indian/brammo would look like?
Man
They are a motor company with a lot of products.....
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Not bad...
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Victory-Ignition-Concept.jpg)
Need to bring that exhaust a little closer to the rider's right ear. jk.
Cool concept.
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Looks like you better wear good boots on that.
The more I see the less I like, it just seems too smooth somehow. Like too much ,matching.