Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: borgmann on November 25, 2015, 03:30:18 AM
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Hi folks
I'm interested in fitting an external oilfilter sump kit
the good folk at gutsibits in the UK have them , has any one on this site fitted one?
Part no ENA 14005 ,looks like a well made piece of equipment,
any opinions?
With thanks Max B.
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Probably is. Probably also a stolen piece of someone else's intellectual property too. Poor bastards. It's hard being a thief and living in whatever Northern hell-hole they operate out of.
Pete
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The adapter in question looks like this....
(http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/prod_img/lrg/IMG_1891.jpg)
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Dunno. The Harper's might chime in. It looks a lot like one of theirs. Thing about plagiarisms is they aren't fussy about who they rip off as long as they're making a quid.
Pete
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The adapter in question looks like this....
(http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/prod_img/lrg/IMG_1891.jpg)
Says right on it... SD TEC... Stein Dinse.
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That one is not one of ours. I prefer to think the Outsider is a much superior part. Also supplied by much nicer people and we ship to Australia daily.
Depending on which bike you are fitting, below are the links. Outsider kits come complete with hardware, gaskets, filter and instructions.
http://www.harpermoto.com/harpers-outsider-for-1998-and-newer-machines.html
http://www.harpermoto.com/harpers-outsider-for-pre-1998-moto-guzzi.html
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Pete, are these the guys that ripped off your sump plate?
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Yup.
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Pete, are these the guys that ripped off your sump plate?
Which guys: Stein Dinse or Gutsibits?
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The latter.
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I live but 50 odd miles from this fabled Northern hell-hole, I've used Gutsibits on a few occasions recently.
This is mainly because they are now the UK's most prominent supplier of parts for old (and new) Guzzi's.
I've had to return some of their pattern parts because they didn't meet my standards of quality, and I'm comparing their pattern parts to the originals I remember fitted to my original 1980 Le Mans II, which I bought new in er...1980.
30 years on I would have expected at least equivalent quality.
Having said that, they've supplied a number of parts that are of the desired quality I require.
Since returning to Guzzi via another 1980 Le Mans II, based entirely on my memories and experiences of the original LM2, I've become aware of many, many things Guzzi that I had no idea of in the 80's; that's the interweb for you.
One of the many new facts I've learnt about is Mr Pete Roper and the Guzzi guru he is.
Also, that he is responsible for the 'Roper plate' which I believe has been incorporated into the manufacture of the sump which is the talking point of this thread.
Although I've questioned the quality of some of Gutsibits pattern parts, they've never come across as thieves, but then I don't know them personally.
Pete, may I ask how they ripped off your sump plate?
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I presume bought one and copied it.
Their offering is not just similar, it's IDENTICAL. In fact they replicated two of my products.
If they had simply had the courtesy to ask I would probably have said add an extra five bux to the price and give it to medicine sans frontiers for every sale and good luck. The fact they just pinched it shits me to tears.
Pete
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The "Roper Sloppage Plate":
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/greguzzi/PICT0002-8.jpg)
Gutsibits plate:
(http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/prod_img/lrg/IMG_5011.jpg)
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I'll chime in with my personal experience of Gutsibits.
I have bought several used parts from them and the service has been excellent.
They will speak to you and email you multiple photos of the item before you buy.
On one occasion the EV luggage rack did not fit my Cali Stone and THEY organized and paid for the return shipping. All I had to do is shove it back in the cardboard box and wait for the courier and I got a full refund.
I have never seen them, but on the phone they have always been more then helpful to me.
It sort of hurts me all this bad blood whenever their name is mentioned. -They have been more then alright with me.
Pete, reference your plate being copied by them. When you raised that thread way back then. I emailed them so they can provide an explanation The guy emailed me back that he doesn't get involved in forum debates and that the plates were from a supplier and they had nothing to do with the design.
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So they're happy to buy copies from thieves. Same thing in my book.Respect not regained.
Pete
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Hmmm. Stein Dinse part number is Product no.: 200099020 Not ENA 14005
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Motor/Oil-Circuit/Oelwannen-u-Zwischenringe/External-filter-ring-flange-filter-at-front::819.html?language=sc
Looks like a damned fine copy though. You don't suppose Stein Dinse copied the gutsibits adapter? :evil:
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The adapter in question looks like this....
(http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/prod_img/lrg/IMG_1891.jpg)
thanks for the comments guy's ,
the sump kit looks nothing like the one you're all talking about.
the filter is mounted in a recess under the sump similar to BMW s
and has the same depth [82mm ] as the stock sump.
be sure of the facts before you accuse people of intellectual theft.
[check out part number ENA 14005 on gutsybits website]
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I know nothing of the part in question, only of the questionable practices of the operators of the business.
Pete
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thanks for the comments guy's ,
the sump kit looks nothing like the one you're all talking about.
the filter is mounted in a recess under the sump similar to BMW s
and has the same depth [82mm ] as the stock sump.
be sure of the facts before you accuse people of intellectual theft.
[check out part number ENA 14005 on gutsybits website]
Gutsibits ENA 14005 is most likely made by G&G and is the same piece sold by MG Cycle as MG368. Looks identical in the photos:
(http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/prod_img/sml/IMG_6482.jpg)
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/mg368_01.jpg)
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/mg368_02.jpg)
Sold by Stein-Dinse as well:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Complete-partlist/Nicht-mehr-lieferbar/oilpan-G-G-Oelfilter-exterior::129874.html
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[/quote] that's the item Antietam.
I'm still wondering whether anyone has fitted one of these oil pans.
as for the negative comments levelled at gutsibits, every person sees things according to their experience I guess international patents will protect your invention.
the reason I wish to use the ENA14005 kit is because it retains stock ground clearance height.
as well as it looks a more robust option than a filter mounted to a 15mm spacer ring with bracing plates bolted to the oil pan.
if I was to cut an anti cavitation plate for a guzzi motor it would look fairly similar to the roper plate .
After all the engineering of the surrounding parts dictates its shape.
Hope you all enjoy your weekend ,riding these great bikes.
With thanks Max B.
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Have you any idea how much a patent costs? For a product selling a few dozen a year it simply isn't viable.
You rely on basic human decency. It's in short supply it seems.
You have a good weekend too.
Pete
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I'm surprised at the amount of rationalization from certain members here. Pete is one of the most helpful, generous, and entertaining folks on this board, yet many seem ready to support a company that outright stole from him. WTF?!
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Got one of thoseonmy 2003 ev11.
Pricey but very nice and makes oil changes a snap.
Well worth it for quick and painless oil changes.
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I'm surprised at the amount of rationalization from certain members here. Pete is one of the most helpful, generous, and entertaining folks on this board, yet many seem ready to support a company that outright stole from him. WTF?!
:1: Couldn't agree more. It was theft, pure and simple.
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Have you any idea how much a patent costs? For a product selling a few dozen a year it simply isn't viable.
It's worse than that. 25 years ago or so, I got a couple patents issued and kept the cost minimal by doing the work myself, making the drawings and writing the claims, with guidance from a retired patent examiner. Then another company began selling a product that infringed on my patents. I went to a patent attorney, who told me that it did appear that the other company was infringing, but there was a rule of thumb: If the product isn't grossing at least a million dollars per year, it's not worth defending the patent. In other words, trying to defend it would be more expensive than the loss caused by the infringement.
Then there's the additional complication of trying to get and defend an international patent.
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I installed this one from MG. dont have cut any fins, and the filter is to the rear.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=2216
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Besides being thieves (or enabling thieves at best) they must not be very bright. The Guzzi community is very small. Didn't they guess that this would come out? They claimed they bought the plates from a supplier. Okay. They have been informed that the product they are selling is a knock off. Fine. Then the right thing to do would be to pull it from the website and don't order anymore. Better yet order a batch from Pete to promote some good will.
Either way you slice it, Gutsibits has gone out of their way to earn the ire of a lot of potential customers. I'll never order anything from them.
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Business is ruthless , and any one in business including me knows you get stabbed in the back all the time. And it isn't the loss of blood but the sheer weight of the knives that brings you down...
If DG Vasco made the part and another guy took the design and calls it his own, then the only thing you can do is complain to the thief. And not buy the product...And patented items are still copied despite the laws.
Triumph recently went on a campaign recently to enforce the copyright on the 30's-70's logo...Some were pissed because they couldn't use it to advertise......Same thing for Chevy logo 15 years ago...
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I installed this one from MG. dont have cut any fins, and the filter is to the rear.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=2216
This one is a Harper's Outsider knockoff so Pete is not in this alone.
I have been through this argument numerous times since the first design Outsider back in 1977.
Nothing you can really do about it but the fact is they have stolen the design. All of the copies that have come from Europe are from my original although they have been slightly modified.
The G&G pan is the only one that has designed his own. The original G&G is a nice unit, Can't speak about the one pictured in an earlier post.
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This one is a Harper's Outsider knockoff so Pete is not in this alone.
I have been through this argument numerous times since the first design Outsider back in 1977.
Nothing you can really do about it but the fact is they have stolen the design. All of the copies that have come from Europe are from my original although they have been slightly modified.
The G&G pan is the only one that has designed his own. The original G&G is a nice unit, Can't speak about the one pictured in an earlier post.
No argument, yet yours is a two or three piece with the filter to the front, theirs is a one piece with the filter to the rear, and its a knock off? That logic would imply that a Guzzi engine is a knock off of a Harley because they're both Vs and use pistons and rods.?????
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Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.
The "Outsider" which is registered trademark has never had the filter in the front
There have been several modifications over the years due to various model changes by Guzzi and better manufacturing processes
Every one of the copies still uses my design of a plate between the pan and the block.
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No argument, yet yours is a two or three piece with the filter to the front, theirs is a one piece with the filter to the rear, and its a knock off? That logic would imply that a Guzzi engine is a knock off of a Harley because they're both Vs and use pistons and rods.?????
A Guzzi engine has more in common with a Chevy V8 than a Harley ..... :cool:
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thanks for the two help full comments relating to the G&G ENA 14005 oil pan .
As for the rest of the angry comments relating to wrongs perpetrated in the mists of time [nearly 40 years ago].1977?
all I can say is" the more luggage you carry ,the harder the journey."
Get on that bike , let the wind blow that anger away and travel light.
Wishing you all have a great festive season.
J.B
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...Until some buggers stolen ALL your luggage...
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(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/mg368_01.jpg)
I have one of these GG sumps, works well and looks good although it did require a little engineering to get the pressure valve to fit and I had to get inventive to get a good seal for the sludge filter, so not quite plug 'n play but I'm happy with it and despite being deeper still leaves plenty of ground clearance.
(http://ducatiforum.co.uk/data/photos/l/5/5793-1436544661-c70b12be65f151ae03d2d6c75d3ccb7e.jpg)
I, personally prefer the design of this to a 'sandwich' extension/filter holder.
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No argument, yet yours is a two or three piece with the filter to the front, theirs is a one piece with the filter to the rear, and its a knock off? That logic would imply that a Guzzi engine is a knock off of a Harley because they're both Vs and use pistons and rods.?????
Looks like one-piece, mounted behind the sump, to me:
http://www.harpermoto.com/harpers-outsider-for-1998-and-newer-machines.html