Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2015, 11:34:48 AM
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Last week, I made some new cylinder studs for the Aero engine (Guzzi content) using my little toy lathe. I was surprised at the interest shown.. there must be some hobbyist machinists here. My main complaint with the lathe is it is so wimpy. You just can't take a cut with it. The tool post will flex, and gouge the workpiece and/or break the lathe bit. Decided to do something about that.
The weakest part is the compound mount. It is not only poorly engineered, it is lightly built. Looked on the net to see if anyone else had done something about it. No need reinventing the wheel. :smiley:
Lots of info here:
http://bedair.org/9x20camlock/9x20project.html
Well, looky here..
http://bedair.org/clamp/9x20clamp.html
Even has a drawing..
http://bedair.org/clamp/4_BOLT_COMPOUND_HOLD_DOWN.pdf
And a place to buy a turn key kit.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1963256897
If you have one of these 9X19 or 9X20 lathes.. they are *all* the same, just different color paint and price tags.. I'd highly recommend buying it. The usual disclaimers.
Comma but..
Looking at the drawing, while it is *much* better than the stock unit, it could be better. I thought, "Oh, come on, you never make something that you can buy so inexpensively..by the time you design something, get it made, *clean up the shop* you'll have all day in it." Then thought, "So, what are you doing today?" The Kid's Carb Spot is scattered all over the shop waiting for transmission parts (more Guzzi content) and you have some 1 inch cold rolled steel laying around. FREE. (even more Guzzi content.) :smiley: :boozing:
Ok, let's do this thing..
Mill it to size plus a few thousandths to grind..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/1-001_zpsdkis72pw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/1-001_zpsdkis72pw.jpg.html)
Yuck.. I hate cutting steel. I fried a motherboard one time by letting a metallic chip get in the keyboard.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/2-002_zpsyl4gja4a.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/2-002_zpsyl4gja4a.jpg.html)
Cover everything up before doing any grinding. The other day people were talking about grinding off pins to keep from having to remove sprockets to change out a timing chain. (more Guzzi content) Gives me the willies..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/4-007_zpslhee3i6w.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/4-007_zpslhee3i6w.jpg.html)
Squaring it up on the surface grinder..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/3-006_zpsbygsvzif.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/3-006_zpsbygsvzif.jpg.html)
Design the part on the cad and cut it out..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/5-010_zpsrtgeghal.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/5-010_zpsrtgeghal.jpg.html)
Assembled. You can see that not only does it clamp down the base the degrees are etched on (the *only* thing the OEM does) it has a slip fit on both diameters..and the base of the compound. This is now the strongest part of the lathe. :smiley:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/6-012_zpsj5lshhwc.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/6-012_zpsj5lshhwc.jpg.html)
Here is the comparison of the two parts..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/7-013_zps1gmpcl7o.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/7-013_zps1gmpcl7o.jpg.html)
Pretty darn nice, if I do say so myself. I'll try not to break my arm patting myself on the back. :wink: Yeah, it took all day.
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Chuckie , you are a magician :bow:
Dusty
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ROFLMAO.
Nice part.
Hardest thing about going from a 12x36 to a tiny lathe is taking light cuts.
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I also went from a 13 X 36 to a 9 X 19 and I agree that sharper bits and smaller cuts, and lots more patience
is what works. I made a lot of my own tooling also.
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ROFLMAO.
Nice part.
Hardest thing about going from a 12x36 to a tiny lathe is taking light cuts.
Thanks. I'm hoping that I'll be able to use it like a *real* lathe with this mod. Still have to counter bore the screw holes and make 4 T slot nuts before giving it a try. I think it'll transform this little sucker, though.
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Nice work Chuck - always nice to see how you do things so professionally.
Here's a couple pictures of a real toy lathe:
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/shawnsci/IMG_2594_zpsvxjatyzp.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/shawnsci/IMG_2587_zpsqgv6urqd.jpg)
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Gee, just make the whole darn lathe! :evil:
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Nice work Chuck - always nice to see how you do things so professionally.
Here's a couple pictures of a real toy lathe:
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/shawnsci/IMG_2594_zpsvxjatyzp.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/shawnsci/IMG_2587_zpsqgv6urqd.jpg)
What brand is that one? Looks a lot like my '46 Montgomery-Wards/Logan.
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Looks like an Atlas to me. I just purchased a Pratt & Whitney 13x30 1927 model B. Was going to put some pictures up when I get her in place, she is heavy.
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The best improvements that I made on my 9x20 lathe were the KDK quick change tool holder (expensive, but oh so handy), a 9" Bison 3 jaw (that seems to hold to .001 TIR), I made the stiffer tool post holder and changed the drive to a VS DC drive motor and contoller. Jurgen
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What brand is that one? Looks a lot like my '46 Montgomery-Wards/Logan.
1944 Crafstman my Grandpa bought new. Always thought it was a Delta. It's tiny - 3" radius? 1/4" tool bits.
Would like to know if same as Wards Logan. Or Atlas.
Shawn
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1944 Crafstman my Grandpa bought new. Always thought it was a Delta. It's tiny - 3" radius? 1/4" tool bits.
Would like to know if same as Wards Logan. Or Atlas.
Shawn
That's a *real* lathe there. :smiley: I'm pretty sure Atlas made Craftsman lathes. When I was a kid, I went to a lot of auctions hoping to score a small lathe, but never could afford one.
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Bought one of those toy lathes last year. Have not used it for much yet and now you are going to make me upgrade parts. Since the roads are heavily salted already around here, I should appreciate a nice little project like that. I will have to search the scrap pile now. Thanks Chuck. Mike
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Yep, Atlas did make the Craftsman line. I wish I had kept mine. It was also a 6". Got it at a garage sale. Cleaned it up and it ran great. Fitted a quick change tool post to it. I may have to find another one of these days. I like old tools :)
For Chuck's benefit....I also made a milling attachment for it. Had to use the father-in-laws milling machine though. Still have that attachment and it fits my toy lathe.
FYI, you can still get spare parts from Atlas. I also got a manual from them.
I consider the benchtop 9" lathe as in between the toy lathes and the big ones. A lot of times I really miss the quck change gearbox on the 12x36.
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Bought one of those toy lathes last year. Have not used it for much yet and now you are going to make me upgrade parts. Since the roads are heavily salted already around here, I should appreciate a nice little project like that. I will have to search the scrap pile now. Thanks Chuck. Mike
My pleasure, Mike..
Make the cross slide project your first priority. It *transforms* that little sucker.
I could tell as soon as I touched the tool bit to the piece of steel that this was now a different lathe. I didn't even bother to put a turning tool in it, just turned the thread cutting tool and took a pass. This is .020" on a side with coarse feed. I'm sure with a proper tool .030" (1/16" off the diameter) a pass is possible. I will guarantee you that if I'd tried this before the mod it would have broken the tool. Fun little project.. :smiley:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/1-001_zpsbtxg1ty1.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/1-001_zpsbtxg1ty1.jpg.html)
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Good stuff, Chuck! I have a old Logan with a 4 inch chuck on it, an Enco with the 6 inch chuck and a Sweet vintage Southbend with a 10 inch 4 jaw on it. Now all I need is more garage time. LOVE seeing projects like this Chuck. Post more.
I did an informal survey at the Iowa rally one year, found that there were a LOT of people in three employment catagories. Teaching, pilots and machinists.
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HEY CHUCK, if you come up with plans or your own design for a rotary table for my mill, I'd love it. I really need to come up with an answer to that dilemma that doesn't involve spending a thousand bucks.
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Good stuff, Chuck! I have a old Logan with a 4 inch chuck on it, an Enco with the 6 inch chuck and a Sweet vintage Southbend with a 10 inch 4 jaw on it. Now all I need is more garage time. LOVE seeing projects like this Chuck. Post more.
I did an informal survey at the Iowa rally one year, found that there were a LOT of people in three employment catagories. Teaching, pilots and machinists.
As I mentioned, when I posted making the cylinder hold down studs on the Aero engine thread, I was surprised at how many people were interested in it.
I had always blown off this X toy lathe :wink: because you couldn't take a cut with it. Still, it did a good job on those threads (at .005" a pass :smiley:) and got me interested in seeing if it could be improved and actually used as a "real" lathe.
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HEY CHUCK, if you come up with plans or your own design for a rotary table for my mill, I'd love it. I really need to come up with an answer to that dilemma that doesn't involve spending a thousand bucks.
this looks like it "might" do the job.. <shrug>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-High-Quality-10-Horizontal-and-Vertical-Rotary-Table-NEW-/331258179445?hash=item4d2086af75
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That's a *real* lathe there. :smiley: I'm pretty sure Atlas made Craftsman lathes. When I was a kid, I went to a lot of auctions hoping to score a small lathe, but never could afford one.
Thanks Chuck and Charlie - good to know I have a real Atlas lathe! Now all I have to do it learn how to be a real machinist. :grin:
This thread is inspiration! :thumb:
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The best improvements that I made on my 9x20 lathe were the KDK quick change tool holder (expensive, but oh so handy), a 9" Bison 3 jaw (that seems to hold to .001 TIR), I made the stiffer tool post holder and changed the drive to a VS DC drive motor and contoller. Jurgen
I have a 12 x 36 Atlas made in the 1970's; it's a nice lathe. I agree, the best addition was an Aloris wedge style quick change tool holder. The other bit I really like was the 5C collet holder. It mounts to the threaded spindle like a chuck but holds 5C collets. It has one square drive on the scroll like a chuck but it tightens the collet.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/collet%20chuck.jpg) (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/demar39/media/collet%20chuck.jpg.html)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/Atlas3996.jpg) (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/demar39/media/Atlas3996.jpg.html)
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That's going to be the next upgrade for mine. .
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I have an old Atlas 618 lathe, every time I use it I wish it had a better tool holder and a milling attachment.
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Time to update this. I'll show you some machinist tricks. :smiley:
Since I've decided I'll be using this lathe more than I expected, I might as well make it more comfortable. Made a stand for it out of scrap wood. Notice the piece of asphalt shingle in the front right? They are commonly used to level machinery. There's another under one leg of the metal stand. It's solid and level, now. That's trick one.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/01-001_zpsibdtngoe.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/01-001_zpsibdtngoe.jpg.html)
I mentioned that a collet chuck would be my next upgrade. One of my fellow airplane building buddies stopped in one day and asked me if I wanted some collets. "Whatcha got?" He said, "These were in a bunch of tools I bought. I don't have any use for them. They're yours if you want em." (!) 1/8" to 1 1/8" by 32nds. New.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/14-016_zpswx1hafoh.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/14-016_zpswx1hafoh.jpg.html)
Uhhhhh, yeah. :smiley: Another friend said he'd picked up a couple of collet chucks cheap, did I want one? No free stuff from him.. he's one of those cheaper than Guzzi Bavarian Money Waster Airhead guys. :evil: :smiley: but it was still cheap. I was going to fit it up to my LaBlonde, but with the improvement in the X toy lathe, thought I'd use it here. Bought a 6" casting.. I wouldn't consider making something like this for 30 bux or so..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/07-007_zpstcuyhd5d.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/07-007_zpstcuyhd5d.jpg.html)
But first
This is a Shars Chinese imitation of a very expensive English quick change tool post. *Very* well done. Hardened and ground, and the taper type rather than the cheaper piston type. Fit it up. Solid as a rock, and makes changing tools a cinch. Trick two.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/06-006_zps9o8rmk8k.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/06-006_zps9o8rmk8k.jpg.html)
Someone asked in the Aero engine thread how to make a lathe tool bit. Since I needed to make one for the new tooling.. it will take 1/2" bits.. I documented making one.
This is a right hand bit.. cuts from right to left. The angle varies, depending on what material you are cutting, but will be less than 90 degrees. I ended up making it even less cutting this cast iron. The groove in the top is a chip breaker, done on the side of the wheel with a radius dressed on it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/02-002_zpsdgaqiskf.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/02-002_zpsdgaqiskf.jpg.html)
Side clearance angle will be about like this
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/03-003_zps7gaflihw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/03-003_zps7gaflihw.jpg.html)
End clearance is about the same..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/04-004_zpsqdlmeulx.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/04-004_zpsqdlmeulx.jpg.html)
Here you can see the *important* small radius put on the cutting tip and both cutting edges with a bench stone.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/05-005_zpsyzstrimn.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/05-005_zpsyzstrimn.jpg.html)
That's about it. All are similar depending whether it is used for left or right, plunge, etc. That's trick 3.
Here is the chuck adapter turned to the same OD, and .0005" under size on the register. Believe it or not, the little X toy lathe can now do that. (!!) That's a tight fit. You *won't* be able to just put it together. Make it loose enough to do that, and you've lost accuracy. Trick 4.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/08-008_zps96p5y674.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/08-008_zps96p5y674.jpg.html)
There are three mount holes in the chuck @ a 2.265" bolt circle. Did the math, indicated up the adapter..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/09-009_zpslwgz5rog.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/09-009_zpslwgz5rog.jpg.html)
And drilled the holes.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/10-010_zpstm0wd5ix.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/10-010_zpstm0wd5ix.jpg.html)
Alrighty, now.. time to assemble. Carefully stoning the mount surfaces and *cleaning*. The very best thing to clean is using a bare hand. Your skin will pick up micro particles. That's trick 5. :smiley:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/11-011_zps35o0fmms.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/11-011_zps35o0fmms.jpg.html)
Apply a light coat of LubriPlate to the mating surfaces. It keeps them from galling. Trick 6. Insert the mount screws and carefully pull it together in small increments with the screws.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/12-012_zpszsrd02tw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/12-012_zpszsrd02tw.jpg.html)
Ok, time for the acid test. This chuck adapter is pretty long, and the most minute variance of the mount will cause it to run out.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/13-013_zpsvftqtfcw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/13-013_zpsvftqtfcw.jpg.html)
Close enough. :thumb: I'm really happy with this little lathe, now. I took 1 inch off the diameter of that adapter.. I wouldn't even have considered doing it before the cross slide mod.. and.. it would never have been able to hold that kind of accuracy. Do it if you have one of these little boogers. :smiley:
Now, I need to make a rack to hold the collets, but that's a project for another day..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/lathe/15-017_zpsdpasyckv.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/lathe/15-017_zpsdpasyckv.jpg.html)