Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cool Runnings on November 30, 2015, 04:36:09 PM
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The Short Answer: Run it Hard! :popcorn:
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Uh , he is just repeating what many have been saying for years , nothing new or controversial here . However , following the manufacturers recommendations is still not a bad idea . The world is full of internet geniuses , sorry .
Dusty
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Do what you like.......... When I picked up the new Dodge Avenger in 2012 with that Pentastar engine, I proceeded to run it very hard immediately. After 38,000 miles she runs strong and burns no oil. :thumb:
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Do what you like.......... When I picked up the new Dodge Avenger in 2012 with that Pentastar engine, I proceeded to run it very hard immediately. After 38,000 miles she runs strong and burns no oil. :thumb:
Don't doubt that , most modern motors don't need any real break in . However , I will bet money that following the manufacturers guidelines will give the same results . This guy making claims that pro mechanics have torn down engines that employed his method sounds like internet BS .
Dusty
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Don't doubt that , most modern motors don't need any real break in . However , I will bet money that following the manufacturers guidelines will give the same results . This guy making claims that pro mechanics have torn down engines that employed his method sounds like internet BS .
Dusty
Yet following manufacturers guidelines for break-in is NO fun! :boozing:
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Try breaking a Ural that way, you will end up will a pile of molten slag :evil:
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don't baby them, ride it like you stole it as soon as its warm!
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don't baby them, ride it like you stole it as soon as its warm!
Yup. :boozing:
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So... just what are you guys basing this theory on ? Do you have degrees in engineering , or are you pro mechanics , or is this "run it like you stole it" based on some internet site full of ridiculous claims ?
I've been hearing this since at least about 1970 , no scientific evidence of its veracity has ever been shown to me that it is true .
Dusty
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So... just what are you guys basing this theory on ? Do you have degrees in engineering , or are you pro mechanics , or is this "run it like you stole it" based on some internet site full of ridiculous claims ?
I've been hearing this since at least about 1970 , no scientific evidence of its veracity has ever been shown to me that it is true .
Dusty
It's just what I do, my engines run strong.
New corvette engines are tested by running them wide open continually for over a Month (non-stop).
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It's just what I do, my engines run strong.
New corvette engines are tested by running them wide open continually for over a Month (non-stop).
New corvette engines are tested by running them wide open continually for over a Month (non-stop). Ok, that sounds amazing, can you site a source for this outlandish claim?
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New corvette engines are tested by running them wide open continually for over a Month (non-stop). Ok, that sounds amazing, can you site a source for this outlandish claim?
:1: I couldn't find anything about this , sounds like BS to me .
Dusty
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Wow! Winter set in early this year.
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So... just what are you guys basing this theory on ? Do you have degrees in engineering , or are you pro mechanics , or is this "run it like you stole it" based on some internet site full of ridiculous claims ?
I've been hearing this since at least about 1970 , no scientific evidence of its veracity has ever been shown to me that it is true .
Dusty
C'mon Dusty.. you're Shirley :smiley: familiar with the BMWs glazing up and burning oil when the old farts "babied" them on break in after BMW went to chrome.
Here's what you do with a chrome airplane engine.
Start it up and check for leaks. No leaks, ok..
*Tow* it to the end of the runway. No idling.
Start it up and firewall the throttle.
Climb at a low angle to keep airspeed up and cooling air going through the engine.
Maintain WFO.
Oil and cyl head temp will climb, and maybe go a little over redline. :shocked:
In about 45 minutes, temps will start to fall.
At that point, the engine is broken in. I've done it several times..
If you don't do it, the cylinders will glaze up and never break in. That's just the way it is..
Ride it like you stole it. Lots of full throttle (ring pressure on the bores) followed by closed throttle to lube the cylinder bores. Don't sit on the interstate for 2 hours at the same rpm, just loafing along.
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Wow! Winter set in early this year.
:1:
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:1:
:1: + :1:
Bob
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My last couple of new bikes, the Owner's manual said don't give it more than 80% throttle until the first service- (Usually around the 600 mile mark) and don't ride for 'extended periods' at one engine speed.
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C'mon Dusty.. you're Shirley :smiley: familiar with the BMWs glazing up and burning oil when the old farts "babied" them on break in after BMW went to chrome.
Here's what you do with a chrome airplane engine.
Start it up and check for leaks. No leaks, ok..
*Tow* it to the end of the runway. No idling.
Start it up and firewall the throttle.
Climb at a low angle to keep airspeed up and cooling air going through the engine.
Maintain WFO.
Oil and cyl head temp will climb, and maybe go a little over redline. :shocked:
In about 45 minutes, temps will start to fall.
At that point, the engine is broken in. I've done it several times..
If you don't do it, the cylinders will glaze up and never break in. That's just the way it is..
Ride it like you stole it. Lots of full throttle (ring pressure on the bores) followed by closed throttle to lube the cylinder bores. Don't sit on the interstate for 2 hours at the same rpm, just loafing along.
Uh , I never said to baby them . Yeah , the nikasil BMW engines did require a different break in than the old iron liners , but the manuals recommended a certain procedure , and the mostly old farts that rode beemers chose to ignore that new procedure , thought they were smarter than the engineers (sound familiar :evil:) . Hell , maybe the manuals do call for this "run it like you stole it" method :laugh:
Dusty
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Oh , it isn't really Winter until someone starts an oil ,tire or countersteering thread , sheesh , some of you guys have REALLY short memories :laugh:
Dusty
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When I rebuilt my Norton Commando, I couldn't get the rings to seat, so off with the air filters, fired it up, gave it some throttle and threw in the Bon Ami, suckers seated quite nicely, then changed the oil. Many years ago, I met Rich Maund on a Ural site, he's the one that got me into Guzzi's. Back then the primary break in suggestion for Urals was to pull off the cylinders, chuck them up and face them so they were parallel from one end to the other, and perpendicular to the bore..... Ah, the good ole days......
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New corvette engines are tested by running them wide open continually for over a Month (non-stop). Ok, that sounds amazing, can you site a source for this outlandish claim?
I cannot recall hearing that when I toured the Tonawanda plant, where the LT1 is produced, last summer. They do lmbed the main bearings with a polymer for a 300,000 mile life cycle.
Follow Up: test engines were subjected to full throttle blasts to the equivalent of 120 mph for hundreds of hours.
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I cannot recall hearing that when I toured the Tonawanda plant, where the LT1 is produced, last summer. They do lmbed the main bearings with a polymer for a 300,000 mile life cycle.
Follow Up: test engines were subjected to full throttle blasts to the equivalent of 120 mph for hundreds of hours.
So "blasts", not constant full throttle running ?
Dusty
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Start it up and check for leaks. No leaks, ok..
*Tow* it to the end of the runway. No idling.
Start it up and firewall the throttle.
Climb at a low angle to keep airspeed up and cooling air going through the engine.
Maintain WFO.
Oil and cyl head temp will climb, and maybe go a little over redline. :shocked:
In about 45 minutes, temps will start to fall.
At that point, the engine is broken in. I've done it several times..
I've done break-ins on two a/c engines after rebuild -- the Continental 235 in our CAP C-182, and the O-540 in my Comanche. In both cases the manufacturer's procedure is as Chuck advises. In both cases I had to take off from airports above 5000 feet so I never got 100% MP, but I ran the engines WFO for more than an hour and that seemed to do the trick . . .
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So "blasts", not constant full throttle running ?
Correct ...on test mules. Consumer motors get a quick "run-in" at the factory (not using gas) and again at the assembly plant at the end of the line. With the automatic, 2 shifts in "blast mode" put you at 85 mph faster then a L88 did in the 60's.
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OK, who on earth believes motorcycle engines are built to the same specs and service requirements as aircraft engines? Geesh, are we swallowing hard today or what?
It takes about a week of riding to get through the manufacturers recommended break-in period.
If anyone thinks an engine that runs great after 30-50k miles is something to brag about, it isn't.
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I've been using the basic theory of the mototune method for a lot of years, works every time.
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Oh , it isn't really Winter until someone starts an oil ,tire or countersteering thread , sheesh , some of you guys have REALLY short memories :laugh:
Dusty
What is the best tire when you find yourself counter steering through an oil spill and does it make a difference if the oil is synthetic or dino?
There, that ought to do it!
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Running in an engine concerns the piston bores although with desmo valve mechanism may also require run in. Pushrods add some other consideration, when to retorque, check clearances.
With DLC rings and bench tested modern engines there's really no need.
A more interesting topic would be how run in a rebuilt old engine, considering differnt bore and ring technology over past half century.
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Flat tappet motors like Guzzis need zinc in their oil for full protection. This is MOST critical during breakin. Cylinders glazing can be an issue if you run too easy, but hard acceleration to half redline and then chopping the throttle can get most rings to seat.
I for one always break in my motors on street bikes. When I was racing, I'd be lucky to get a lap or two (4 or 5 miles). There was a whole ritual for breaking in new rear gears on a Guzzi too.
Spend your money, take your chances. I do believe that folks that say "ride it like you stole it" are just lazy.
All that said, how many of us keep our bikes for 200,000 miles? Does breakin make the difference between getting 100,000 and 200,000?
YMMV
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OK, who on earth believes motorcycle engines are built to the same specs and service requirements as aircraft engines?
Actually, they're better.. airplane engines are an antique design.
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Do what you like.......... When I picked up the new Dodge Avenger in 2012 with that Pentastar engine, I proceeded to run it very hard immediately. After 38,000 miles she runs strong and burns no oil. :thumb:
Don't doubt that , most modern motors don't need any real break in . However , I will bet money that following the manufacturers guidelines will give the same results . This guy making claims that pro mechanics have torn down engines that employed his method sounds like internet BS .
Dusty
I can help you win that bet.
Our 2012 Grand Cherokee Limited with the 3.6L Pentastar was broken in according to manufacturers recommendations and at about 50k miles purrs like a kitten and doesn't burn a drop of oil in between the 8k oil life monitor recommended changes.
And I picked up a 2016 Wrangler Sahara Limited last night that has the 3.6 Pentastar also that I'll be making the same bet with.
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I doubt that on the street you could be too hard on a new engine, speed limits, traffic, roads etc...warming up then loading the rings generally does the job....never saw an engine damaged by "improper break in" and I seriously doubt if very many have
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:popcorn:
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Actually, they're better.. airplane engines are an antique design.
Take it from a guy that put an airplane engine in his motorcycle!
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Don't doubt that , most modern motors don't need any real break in . However , I will bet money that following the manufacturers guidelines will give the same results . This guy making claims that pro mechanics have torn down engines that employed his method sounds like internet BS .
Dusty
I can help you win that bet.
Our 2012 Grand Cherokee Limited with the 3.6L Pentastar was broken in according to manufacturers recommendations and at about 50k miles purrs like a kitten and doesn't burn a drop of oil in between the 8k oil life monitor recommended changes.
And I picked up a 2016 Wrangler Sahara Limited last night that has the 3.6 Pentastar also that I'll be making the same bet with.
(http://static1.squarespace.com/static/523cc73fe4b061a78be9025e/523cc7ffe4b09034aa642588/52420928e4b0b42fd91e7dc0/1380059437951/2012+jk+2.jpg?format=750w)
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Try breaking a Ural that way, you will end up will a pile of molten slag :evil:
I have actually broken in my Ural twice due to failure the first time around.
1st time I babied the engine way too much and ended up running at too low RPM's, the result? Scored pistons and scored cylinder walls due to light seizing.
2nd time I was more agressive and let the engine run higher in RPM's, the result? No scored walls and no a much better ring seal against the bore!
After this I would adher to the "break it in like you gonna ride" school. I definetly think that excessive babying of the engine during break in could be harmful.
That said, the Ural is a very low RPM machine to start out with, the recommended max RPM is 5500, so anything above that is going to ruin the engine no matter what.
You also might want to take it easy and allow for a decent cool down after the first couple of miles since the rings run alot hotter due to the higher friction of totally new rings. But after that, ride it pretty much like you want to.
Aslo, DON'T use fully synthetic oil during break in!
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(http://static1.squarespace.com/static/523cc73fe4b061a78be9025e/523cc7ffe4b09034aa642588/52420928e4b0b42fd91e7dc0/1380059437951/2012+jk+2.jpg?format=750w)
LOL, that would make a Wrangler a death trap... I'll keep the motor stock thanks!
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I have actually broken in my Ural twice due to failure the first time around.
1st time I babied the engine way too much and ended up running at too low RPM's, the result? Scored pistons and scored cylinder walls due to light seizing.
2nd time I was more agressive and let the engine run higher in RPM's, the result? No scored walls and no a much better ring seal against the bore!
After this I would adher to the "break it in like you gonna ride" school. I definetly think that excessive babying of the engine during break in could be harmful.
That said, the Ural is a very low RPM machine to start out with, the recommended max RPM is 5500, so anything above that is going to ruin the engine no matter what.
You also might want to take it easy and allow for a decent cool down after the first couple of miles since the rings run alot hotter due to the higher friction of totally new rings. But after that, ride it pretty much like you want to.
Aslo, DON'T use fully synthetic oil during break in!
The problems with generalizations is that they may be generally true, but they're almost never universally true.
I.E.
There are exceptions.
Like - don't break it in with synthetic oil? But that's what dozens of manufactures around the world do from high end cars to not so high end motorcycles.
Don't baby it - well, maybe there are motors that require it more than others. You've seen a case where not babying it seemed beneficial (can you prove that was the only variable that changed)? And even if you can prove that was the variable, what differences are there between that Ural motor and something else?
For me, I generally find a moderate point somewhere between babying and beating, that usually falls within the manufacturers parameters.
Works well enough for me.
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What is the best tire when you find yourself counter steering through an oil spill and does it make a difference if the oil is synthetic or dino?
There, that ought to do it!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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Man you fellows are some smart :violent1: opinions like arseholes we all got em. :popcorn: carry on.