Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldbike54 on December 04, 2015, 05:08:04 PM
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OK , so compared to me , everyone here is a smart guy , or girl , no slight intended , so this question is really for everyone .
Going back to about 1964 , I've been devouring information regarding motorbikes . Back then , a Bonneville , BSA Spitfire , HD Sportster , CSR Matchless , Norton Atlas , etc etc , were all capable of roughly the same level of performance . Low 14 second 1/4 miles , 110 MPH top speeds , 0-60 times in the 5-6 second range . Braking in those days was usually not great , 60 to 0 in 145 ft was really good , and handling was alright , the Brits and Italians seemed a bit better than the the others . Then we hit the Japanese revolution , obvious what happened there , advances in performance came at a relentless pace . Now we have readily available MCs capable of mid 9 second 1/4 miles , 0 to 60 times of 2.6 seconds, 180+ MPH top speeds , braking from 60 to 0 in 120 feet , with no real fade . And handling better than race bikes from 10 years ago , amazing stuff .
So, here is the question , based on what you think you know , where will we be in 10 years ? Have we plateaued a bit , has the decreasing market for race bike performance in street bikes caused a slowing in increasing performance ? What say you engineers , mechanics , and regular old MC junkies like me ? What , if any , will be the next advance , tires , brakes , suspension ? Hybrids ?
Dusty
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Machines will be built in small places like maybe 1500 sq foot shops and designed in cad to the customers requirement's then produced with printers out of plastic/carbon fiber media.
And also ejections seats will become common.
:-)
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The Kirbster says "ejection seats" :laugh:
Both good answers guys :thumb:
Dusty
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That's not a bad idea. If you could get it to eject you high enough to get a parachute to open, it would allow you to abort if you're going too fast when a car pulls out in front of you, for example.
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Oh PJ , we will get there , eventually :laugh:
As for the ejection seat , it would need a rocket booster to get clear , whooo wheee :shocked:
What about acceleration ? Have we reached a point where even modern electronics can't overcome the wheelie factor ? The new blown Kawasaki isn't as fast as the bad boy beemer to 180 MPH .
Dusty
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Ya know.. I was talking with Todd Egan a couple of years ago.. Pete, stay out of this. :smiley: :smiley: he's a **really** fast rider.. and he said, "It's insane.. trying to ride a superbike fast through the chicanes. It's really hard to go through them with your front wheel in the air."
So.
Not that I'm a smart guy, but here's what I think:
We've already gone past what a "normal" human can do. *Maybe Superhuman.* :shocked:
Electronic intervention.
I don't want any part of it.
Have we plateaued a bit
Gimme a real motorcycle that I can control. Sort of. :smiley: I think we've plateaued a lot.
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Very light weight Mylar single use parachute incorporated into the riders jacket with crotch straps and a small rocket motor under seat to boost to about 200 to 300 feet with automatic seat separation at 0 G.
Yipee.
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What about acceleration ? Have we reached a point where even modern electronics can't overcome the wheelie factor ? The new blown Kawasaki isn't as fast as the bad boy beemer to 180 MPH .
Amazing how important weight is when you're having a drag race, isn't it?
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I think it goes to added features, less maintenance with much longer intervals, and I see the modular bike on the horizon.
Get ready for the electric bike. Everything is sort of quiet but I bet within 3 years there are some big announcements. When you have 600-900 pound bikes out there they can put those formable lithium batteries to fill space and get decent range. An e bike that can go 250 miles will sell like hotcakes in city and burn areas.
Many riders already accept plastic covered bikes where seeing the engine is not a concern. 250 mikes is a decent weekend of riding for most and makes for a trouble free commute with maybe a charge at work for top off.
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I think there will be an explosion in electric bikes, especially in urban areas. Second, will classic bikes without the modern safety features get hit hard on insurance costs?
GliderJohn
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I think we will see an electric motorcycle with insane acceleration capabilities. Maybe one with two wheel drive that will make it easier to keep the front end down.
Witness the acceleration of the fastest electric cars (Tesla for example). Imagine the motorcycle equivalent of that.
But as for me... I already choose not to buy the fastest things available. I just got a BMW K75s and I'm surprised how many people tell me "Nice bike, but underpowered." Then I think: "C'mon, it's a 750 that'll go 120MPH, and actually accelerates quite briskly (if you have rpms high enough to start with). Underpowered for what?!?!"
Anyway, it seems that some people expect a motorcycle to have peak power at all RPMs - and that sensation is what future electric motors are going to provide.
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Second, will classic bikes without the modern safety features get hit hard on insurance costs?
GliderJohn
This is a really interesting question - and the ultimate "safety" feature is when the car drives itself. Think forward to a world where everyone is texting and drinking while driving - because the car is actually doing the driving. Driverless cars are being tested on the streets now (one of Google's test-fleet cars recently was issued a citation for going too slow). I would not want a driverless motorcycle, but you have to think that someone will make one someday.
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What about tires ?
Dusty
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That's not a bad idea. If you could get it to eject you high enough to get a parachute to open, it would allow you to abort if you're going too fast when a car pulls out in front of you, for example.
Overhead wires, trees, etc, could ruin your day.
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I don't believe that electric motos or cars/truck will ever be practical until we do one of these.
1. develop cold fusion
2. find a method for high temperature 0 resistance conductivity.
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How much harder could you accelerate within the bounds of what we call a motorcycle? GP bikes need anti wheelie controls already and could easily put out 300 hp, but all seem to have stabilized at 250-265.
How much faster can you corner when your knees are on the deck and your elbow is getting there too?
This is on a track,we've been beyond what is sensible for street use for 20 years.
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Overhead wires, trees, etc, could ruin your day.
I would rather take my chances that might be a problem than smacking another vehicle or solid object at speed.
Of course this would be an option not a requirement. Military ejections face the same hazards.
:-)
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Aaron , back in 1965 folks thought a Dunstall Norton , capable of low 13 second 1/4 mile times was approaching a natural limit .
Wheelie control already comes on many street bikes .
Dusty
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Aaron , back in 1965 folks thought a Dunstall Norton , capable of low 13 second 1/4 mile times was approaching a natural limit .
Wheelie control already comes on many street bikes .
Dusty
True.. but why would you want it? :smiley: :boozing: I personally think that we've already gone beyond what the average guy can do technology wise. Maybe Guzzi *is* right on deciding to go retro. <snapping suspenders>
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I'm no engineer, but it seems to me the limit is tire technology. Think we are basically limited to about 1g or so of acceleration, deceleration, and cornering.
You can exceed that at very high speeds with air effect stuff, but that's not practical at "normal" motorcycle speeds.
So my guess is improvements are made to improve control, economy, emissions, etc., but all within that 1g envelope.
That's part of the reason super fast bikes no longer appeal to me. They are ALL pathetic compared to the performance of, say, a fighter jet. Seems a bit silly to boast that your bike can accelerate to 100 mph at 0.8g, which is better than your buddy's crappy 0.75 g acceleration rate. Compared to a military jet, that motorcycle bench racing is like privates debating who ranks highest.
The other reason is control. The pleasure comes from control. I can't control a 180 hp bike on twisty roads, at least not to it's potential. If somebody else can, good for them, but that doesn't change my situation. I'm not comfortable going more than 95 to 100 mph, so I simply have no need for 180 mph.
I'll use a gun analogy here. I can fully control a .38 Special and shoot it well. The control brings joy, and it's useful. I can't do that with a .44 Magnum. And not fun, and not useful to me. Therefore, don't have much use for a .44 Magnum.
But take all this with a grain of salt. I ride a V7 Stone. So that's the kind of stuff you'd expect me to say, right?
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I don't believe that electric motos or cars/truck will ever be practical until we do one of these.
1. develop cold fusion
2. find a method for high temperature 0 resistance conductivity.
Kirby, interesting comment (#1.) I recently read an article about the progress that's been made in fusion reactors, and unlike the old saying "no matter when the article about fusion was written, we were always 30 years away," sounds like the scientific field is much closer to being able to manage that huge burst of energy. The temperatures discussed in the article seemed unreal ...... millions of degrees F. What a change to our way of producing energy if/when cold fusion becomes a reality.
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More bikes with variable valve timing, and more horses, from less displacement. As has happened to cars.
More ABS and TPM systems.
More gee gaws and widgets.
More water (and oil) cooling will happen with better controls. (not like the current MG 8V which just dumps oil through the cooler, hot or cold)
Sadly, more plastic crap because it is easier and cheaper to change the look from years to year. (fewer hard tooling changes needed)
And with the cost of a gallon of gasoline so low, at least in the USA right now, electric is novelty. And motorcycle sales themselves will take a hit.
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Remember when physics limited top fuel cars to 7 second 1/4 miles , then 6 second 1/4 miles , then,,, Each new generations normal seems to be increasing .
Dusty
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True.. but why would you want it? :smiley: :boozing: I personally think that we've already gone beyond what the average guy can do technology wise. Maybe Guzzi *is* right on deciding to go retro. <snapping suspenders>
I believe that has already happened in modern airliners!! No need to practice hand flying the automation is much better and smoother for the passengers.
"Yesterday I couldn't spell pilot now I are one"
Creepy!
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Remember when physics limited top fuel cars to 7 second 1/4 miles , then 6 second 1/4 miles , then,,,
Then they had to shorten the race because too many guys were dying!
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Kirby, interesting comment (#1.) I recently read an article about the progress that's been made in fusion reactors, and unlike the old saying "no matter when the article about fusion was written, we were always 30 years away," sounds like the scientific field is much closer to being able to manage that huge burst of energy. The temperatures discussed in the article seemed unreal ...... millions of degrees F. What a change to our way of producing energy if/when cold fusion becomes a reality.
Yes I have been following the development for a long time and if (and when) this happens to say it will be world changing would be a massive understatement.
Probably won't happen in my lifetime pitty.
:-)
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See how cars have matured, bikes will do the same (and have). Like in cars, the weak link is the driver/rider, hence all the electronic gizmos to take the weak ling out of the decision loop where possible - even as far as driverless cars. I doubt bikes will go driverless (why bother getting one then?) but electronic gizmos will become more common and we see that already with ABS, cruise control etc.
But for the vast majority of riders, bike performance is already beyond their skill sets so pushing smaller bikes with more "reasonable" power seem to be making a comeback and I hope it becomes the norm. Riders killed on crotch rockets don't become repeat customers and don't help the hobby. Bikes that are selling well, e.g. the Bonnie, V7, CB500 etc. are not HP kings and I think bikes like them will be more popular.
Like high powered sports cars, there will still be a market for crotch rockets so I don't see them going away.
Side bar: In MotoGP, horsepower and tires seem to be at a limit for the riders (and machines), unless you make a better course or better asphalt I think it will be very difficult to make use of improvements in tires or HP.
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Aaron , back in 1965 folks thought a Dunstall Norton , capable of low 13 second 1/4 mile times was approaching a natural limit .
Wheelie control already comes on many street bikes .
Dusty
Exactly, once wheelie control is required then the limit has been met. Unless you start dropping the center of gravity to a point where handling is comprised.
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Yes I have been following the development for a long time and if (and when) this happens to say it will be world changing would be a massive understatement.
Probably won't happen in my lifetime pitty.
:-)
Smithswede , who is VERY deep and thoughtful, brought up the subject of cold fusion while we were at JN's memorial . Well , the night before :laugh: He made the statement that it would change the world in ways we can't even imagine . Interesting to hear Bob and Mike are in agreement .
Hmm , faster than light travel anyone ? Now THAT would be cool !
Dusty
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Smithswede , who is VERY deep and thoughtful, brought up the subject of cold fusion while we were at JN's memorial . Well , the night before :laugh: He made the statement that it would change the world in ways we can't even imagine . Interesting to hear Bob and Mike are in agreement .
Hmm , faster than light travel anyone ? Now THAT would be cool !
Dusty
Well, yeah. Fusion has always been the power of the future, and maybe it always will. :smiley: I hope not, because it would be a game changer. Faster than light? Not as far as we *know*. But then.. what we know changes exponentially. Quantum physics makes my head hurt.. :smiley: :boozing:
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Well, yeah. Fusion has always been the power of the future, and maybe it always will. :smiley: I hope not, because it would be a game changer. Faster than light? Not as far as we *know*. But then.. what we know changes exponentially. Quantum physics makes my head hurt.. :smiley: :boozing:
"Things are impossible , until they're not." From that famous faster than light traveler Jean Luc Picard.
Dusty
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There are some things that will forever be impossible.
Sure, we may not know the true scope of what is physically impossible, but I'm pretty confident about logical impossibility. We ain't ever going to see them new fangled triangles with 4 corners, or discover an even prime number other than 2.
Dusty, how's that for Wild Guzzi quantum-level thread drift?
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:bow: :bow: :bow: Champion thread drift Prescott .
You guys are aware that Craig Vetter put up a large sum of seed money for anyone who could begin developing a motorbike that would operate in the air . Speaking of him , wonder how he is doing ?
Dusty
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I agree with Albert, with our knowledge of physics there seems to be no away to exceed the speed of light, but maybe we can do something that achieves the same thing by folding or warping the fabric of space.
Ahla JLP
Thread drift, quite right.
Its late, must be dreaming.
Time to quit.
:-)
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There are some things that will forever be impossible.
Sure, we may not know the true scope of what is physically impossible, but I'm pretty confident about logical impossibility. We ain't ever going to see them new fangled triangles with 4 corners, or discover an even prime number other than 2.
Dusty, how's that for Wild Guzzi quantum-level thread drift?
There's way too much I don't and will likely never know.
But I DO KNOW that we don't really know what is impossible.
And those four sided triangles are called Pyramids.
:wink:
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I agree with Albert, with our knowledge of physics there seems to be no away to exceed the speed of light, but maybe we can do something that achieves the same thing by folding or warping the fabric of space.
Ahla JLP
Thread drift, quite right.
Its late, must be dreaming.
Time to quit.
:-)
No quitting now Mike . Had a long conversation with my physicist buddy today , and we touched on this very thing . He teaches at the U of A , keeps up with the latest silly stuff . His belief , we will eventually figure out how to in fact "warp" space and time . Just gonna take a tremendous amount of power .
Now , about that flying motorbike ... :laugh:
Dusty
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Electric power and improved electronics to make bikes more idiot-proof (says the guy who won't buy a bike without ABS). Internal combustion engine is on its way o u t. Not in ten years but maybe in 30-40.
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No quitting now Mike . Had a long conversation with my physicist buddy today , and we touched on this very thing . He teaches at the U of A , keeps up with the latest silly stuff . His belief , we will eventually figure out how to in fact "warp" space and time . Just gonna take a tremendous amount of power .
Now , about that flying motorbike ... :laugh:
Dusty
I'm in!! It'll go real nicely with the ejection seat!
Good night!
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There's way too much I don't and will likely never know.
But I DO KNOW that we don't really know what is impossible.
And those four sided triangles are called Pyramids.
:wink:
Are you sure you didn't mean tetrahedron?
(http://i.imgur.com/xhFGc2e.gif)
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Are you sure you didn't mean tetrahedron?
(http://i.imgur.com/xhFGc2e.gif)
Depends on your perspective, which was the real point.
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Apparently Shay is off the clock :grin:
Dusty
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0 emissions wont be enough. New bikes will have to vacuum all that nasty carbon and oxygen out of the atmosphere next.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/hydrogen_motorcycle_01_zps7aeokhyg.jpg)
Enjoy the push. :wink:
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Apparently Shay is off the clock :grin:
Dusty
No idea what you're talking about? (He's asleep in his crib).
:blank:
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No idea what you're talking about? (He's asleep in his crib).
:blank:
Friends depend on friends :laugh:
Dusty
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Electric,
single wheel no need for front wheel, gyroscopic control..
you sit in a little control pod that looks like an egg with a fat wheel out the bottom,
the egg is see thru composite that won't break like an egg shell and has crash protection within..
oh, and you won't have to steer, just look where you want to go..
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Interesting Brad .
Dusty
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Electric,
single wheel no need for front wheel, gyroscopic control..
you sit in a little control pod that looks like an egg with a fat wheel out the bottom,
the egg is see thru composite that won't break like an egg shell and has crash protection within..
oh, and you won't have to steer, just look where you want to go..
Any sketchers out there willing to give this vision a try? Pretty cool though freaky idea.
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I agree with Albert, with our knowledge of physics there seems to be no away to exceed the speed of light, but maybe we can do something that achieves the same thing by folding or warping the fabric of space.
Hawking said that it might be possible to time/space travel by going into a black hole with a tiny chance of coming out at a different place and time. Then he pointed out that the act of doing that would rip your molecules apart, and the atoms in them, and you'd be absolutely noting like you were when you went in. So if this is true, faster than light travel and/or time travel is possible but not desirable.
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My observation is that the pendulum is already swinging away from absolute performance.
My guess is that it was just time for that, and maybe even that we'd hit a plateau of performance vs. Human capability.
But that's not to say it won't be exceeded again.
Hell a decade ago 400-500 hp was the territory of supercars. Now you can buy Camaros and Mustangs with as much. Supercars have gone 1000 hp.
WTF man, where can you use that (even the Camaro and Mustang).
Yeah, things have changed.
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Since motorcycles will offend somebody somewhere they'll be deemed politically incorrect and banned. :police:
Possibly some hydraulics and fluid filled chassis.
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My 2 cents.
Changes in efficiency which means motors made of stronger lighter materials. Continued designs with primarily aerodynamics in mind, again with use of composites. Big improvements in suspension and braking dynamics.
For what it's worth.
Gian4
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Dusty,
Ok, this deep swimming trout will rise to the fly.
On motorcycles: I think there will be a trend towards adjustability of geometry to the individual rider. This will include seat height, all controls, angle on handlebars--everything. Gone will be days of sore backs and wrists, and the aftermarket stuff will reduce. Electric motorcycles will continue to mature, and as they improve range and reduce weight the electrics will expand market share. Improved handling like ABS in corners and wheelie control will expand across all ranges. The hydrocarbon based bikes will continue to reduce weight, and yes I think the insane performance has plateaued. Who the hell needs a 180 MPH bike on a Houston freeway? I did see a Kawa H2 the other day. What a waste stuck on 59 in stop and go traffic.
On the topic of energy, take a serious look at Saudi Arabia, oil prices and markets. Oversupply will last for many more years. This is one way to blunt technology advances in alternative energy. Electric cars are a HUGE threat to the Saudis and Opec. As car mileage and electric technology expands, gasoline use will drop dramatically. Demand is down world wide, look at China. Most electricity will be supplied by natural gas fired plants at least in the USA. Coal will continue to decline except in India and China.
Here is a very lengthy, yet very insightful, in my opinion article on why electric cars will change the world. I would buy a Tesla if they were not so damn expensive.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html
Fusion is always "10 years away", but I do think sooner or later the brilliant minds will find a way to produce surplus power output compared to input requirements in a feasible system. To me, old style nuclear plants make a lot of sense for electricity generation, with much care to location, design and maintenance, and security.
Solar technology will expand slowly, but transmission issues remain, and not all geographic locations are prime for large solar electricity generation.
Ok, sun is out, it is 50F so I will take the poodles for a walk and wear my new boots to further break them in. After it warms up the hot rod Triumph "Mary Anne" will get her three pistons warmed up, we will burn a tank of Shell premium, and probably pop a wheelie somewhere shifting from first to second.
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like this but with one wheel.
(http://psipunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/egg-shaped-car-runs-on-two-wheels-future-auto-04.jpg)
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0 emissions wont be enough. New bikes will have to vacuum all that nasty carbon and oxygen out of the atmosphere next.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/hydrogen_motorcycle_01_zps7aeokhyg.jpg)
Enjoy the push. :wink:
New gasoline and diesel blends are already on the market.
Look for gasoline production for use in older vehicles to be eventually discontinued.
You won't need insurance on something you cannot run.
The future,,,, electric most likely....
I'd like to have a mc like in the movie TRON:
Tom
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Integrated protective armor suit w/motorcycle. It would have a Wi-Fi connection for accidents when separated from the bike. Self inflating in a plastic fairing shell. This would be an extension of a helmet and wrap around fairing. This would similar to any full faired bike but extended around the whole person. Electric with extended range batteries.
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The dealers really need to make more money! If not on the bikes, then on the parts and maintenance.
One solution:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/yamaha-or2t_zpsqviyqyky.jpg)
Up until the brand usage, (manditory membership), fee$ take over. :lipsrsealed:
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If the development of the aluminium/carbon battery continues I suspect that the main thing we will see is the explosion of small light weight commuter bikes.
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If the development of the aluminium/carbon battery continues I suspect that the main thing we will see is the explosion of small light weight commuter bikes.
I hope when mine does that it's not near anyone.
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Mass produced battery platforms will begin to look similiar, the sucessful design favoring the future robotic workers on the assembly line..... and therefore easy to customize with my erector set! Oh boy!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/battery%20on%20wheels_zpsiul8vxnx.jpg)
lovely
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I hope when mine does that it's not near anyone.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Did not mean it quite like that, but good spotting though.
So far that part does not seem to be a problem as per the Lithium ones.
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I can see where this is going.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/day-of-the-daleks_zpskbtnkrfw.jpg)
The new 2066 Triumphs.
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I can see where this is going.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/day-of-the-daleks_zpskbtnkrfw.jpg)
The new 2066 Triumphs.
Nope , the Doctor rides a modern Bonnie , although his particular model isn't available to the public. The average rider can't be trusted with a motorbike capable of going straight up :laugh:
Dusty
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Fascinating thread.
Most of the comments I was considering have already been said.
I think that, sadly, we are living in the last days of internal combustion engines (or hydrocarbon fueled engines off every stripe) and that means it has probably reached, or nearly reached, it's peak.
There are a host of reasons for why this is so which I have just this second decided not to bother listing. The question is really what will replace it and when. At this stage it looks like electricity will be the thing, but it may not be in the end.
Battery technology is key here and a breakthrough in that field will advance the electric vehical very rapidly indeed. When will that happen? Who knows. It could be 10 years away, it could be tomorrow.
The other problem facing electric vehicles is the energy required. Those batteries will have to be charged. Think of the energy required for the operation of all the internal combustion vehicles in the world. (and lets include ships and aircraft here) It's enormous! If we are to replace it with electricity, that electricity will have to be generated somehow. How is that to be done? The fission reactor power station won't do. The fuel from them is really quite rare on the planet, far less plentiful than oil for example, and there is a really nasty waste problem with them. (Not to mention the potential for unpleasant accidents) Fusion reactors would answer if we could figure a way to control the process. That could happen tomorrow too, or never.
I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion for exceeding light speed are a go though.
I don't think we are thinking about it in the right way. If we think of the universe and all things in it as a system of energy (an idea that physics supports) and we then vibrate in harmony with the frequencies of a particular point in the universe, would we not then be at that point? Maybe. Maybe we have to evolve to the next level to understand this well enough to get a technology out of it. Maybe we would not much enjoy the process of such evolution. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
Given the plethora of things lining up to give mankind a sharp clip to the left ear (resulting no doubt in a bad case of tinnitus) our future transportation may well be biological legs. Either our own or those of a horse.
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John r , Asimov predicted something very similar .
Dusty
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like this but with one wheel.
(http://psipunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/egg-shaped-car-runs-on-two-wheels-future-auto-04.jpg)
I see this and other versions of the hoover board. The side by side works good, tight turns, forward reverse.
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I see this and other versions of the hoover board. The side by side works good, tight turns, forward reverse.
I hadn't heard that one yet, but I like it. Since the Hover Boards seem to suck so much, I assume. :laugh:
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I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion for exceeding light speed are a go though.
I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.
:-)
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I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.
:-)
Doesn't my $3.00 LED flashlight already ... OH , never mind :rolleyes:
Dusty
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I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
Well, he also said that it would take an infinite amount of energy to get to the sped of light, and that you'd have infinite mass if you succeeded.
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Hover boards imports into England were halted this week due to reports that up to 75% have problems with their lithium batteries overheating and many fires reported.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/HTB1qbk3JVXXXXcEXpXXq6xXFXXXB_zpscon1lxae.jpg)
How about making a battery that uses "dark energy", the Casimiri effect and never have to recharge?
http://129.164.179.22/apod/ap151206.html
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I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion for exceeding light speed are a go though.
I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.
:-)
He may have said that, and it's close enough, but it's not what his maths says.
We can approach the speed of light very closely indeed, but according to his maths we can not actually reach it. It's a bit like continuously halving an apple. No matter how small the remainder is when you halve it, there is always a bit left when you halve it again.
(frinstince, as you approach the speed of light the energy required to accelerate you approaches infinity. That's rather a lot!)
The effects of approaching light speed seem to me to imply that we actually become light energy, but as everything is energy to begin with so WTF? My head starts to hurt at that point.
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He may have said that, and it's close enough, but it's not what his maths says.
We can approach the speed of light very closely indeed, but according to his maths we can not actually reach it. It's a bit like continuously halving an apple. No matter how small the remainder is when you halve it, there is always a bit left when you halve it again.
(frinstince, as you approach the speed of light the energy required to accelerate you approaches infinity. That's rather a lot!)
The effects of approaching light speed seem to me to imply that we actually become light energy, but as everything is energy to begin with so WTF? My head starts to hurt at that point.
I'm sorry John the math actually proves (never been disproved) that we cannot EXCEED light speed. Been a long time since I have been heavy in the calculations of relativity.
The math is hard to really comprehend for the layman but not only did it prove to be right it proved Newton wrong on the matter of gravity, the weak force. No star wars stuff here no pipe dreams just numbers.
Believe what you want!
No point in going further in my mind.
I have always enjoyed my time in NZ..now that is a dream come true
:-)
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But take all this with a grain of salt. I ride a V7 Stone. So that's the kind of stuff you'd expect me to say, right?
Right, it`s exactly what would be expected.
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I'm sorry John the math actually proves (never been disproved) that we cannot EXCEED light speed. Been a long time since I have been heavy in the calculations of relativity.
The math is hard to really comprehend for the layman but not only did it prove to be right it proved Newton wrong on the matter of gravity, the weak force. No star wars stuff here no pipe dreams just numbers.
Believe what you want!
No point in going further in my mind.
I have always enjoyed my time in NZ..now that is a dream come true
:-)
Well the only physics text I can easily lay my hands on is a school one which doesn't go into the question so yes, I'll let it go. I'll bet you a chocolate fish though that I'm right.
Sounds like you have been here quite often?
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How much harder could you accelerate within the bounds of what we call a motorcycle? GP bikes need anti wheelie controls already and could easily put out 300 hp, but all seem to have stabilized at 250-265.
How much faster can you corner when your knees are on the deck and your elbow is getting there too?
This is on a track,we've been beyond what is sensible for street use for 20 years.
A lot faster because the electric motor can produce maximum torque from a stand still and the control unit can adjust the torque much more precisely than can be achieved with an IC engine. Acceleration can be at the maximum all the way.
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Self-driving cars will have to be hooked up to some sort of infrastructure, I suspect. It'll be advertised as a convenience: avoid the traffic, take the smoothest or most energy-efficient route, save time. Give up just a little bit of autonomy for convenience, one increment at a time.
I'm not sure I am comfortable with that path. Your mileage, and the number of fellow travelers permitted on your road, may vary.
Watch out for nibbling ducks,
C
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Self-driving cars will have to be hooked up to some sort of infrastructure, I suspect. It'll be advertised as a convenience: avoid the traffic, take the smoothest or most energy-efficient route, save time. Give up just a little bit of autonomy for convenience, one increment at a time.
I'm not sure I am comfortable with that path. Your mileage, and the number of fellow travelers permitted on your road, may vary.
Watch out for nibbling ducks,
C
Absolutely,
As we move from a commodity base economy to a service based economy, one in which you don't buy media but you stream media, you don't store your wealth in dollars but in bit coins governments will not be able to gather enough in taxation from purchase and income taxes. Focusing on property tax would only force more into renting or even trailers. You got to ask how will governments be able to tax their citizens. On movement the one thing which is increasingly measurable.
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Everyone who stores their stuff in the Cloud will wake up someday to a nightmare.
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.... our future transportation may well be biological legs. Either our own or those of a horse.
Queue the news stories of the hay shortage, and climate change caused by the methane emitted by billions of horses. Then there is the rising E-coli levels in ground water from the runoff of all the horse poo left on the roads.
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Fellas , I'm gonna suggest that speculating on where motorbikes might be in the future is an interesting and difficult enough topic W/O delving into what future tax bases and money policy will be .
Something tells me even the real experts on those two subjects can't even predict :laugh:
Dusty
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Queue the news stories of the hay shortage, and climate change caused by the methane emitted by billions of horses. Then there is the rising E-coli levels in ground water from the runoff of all the horse poo left on the roads.
A situation that brings about our return to biological transport would also in all likelihood bring about a vast reduction in population figures, to the point where we will be fortunate if mankind survives at all, so such problems, even news reports, are unlikely. Certainly not something to look forward to, but it's happened before and there are any number of things that could cause such a disaster some of which appear more or less immanent.
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Back to the future (sorry, bad pun) of motorbikes . I think Lucydad's mention of ergonomically adjustable MC's is something to consider . One bike capable of being a comfortable standard and that can morph into a more sporting setup would be interesting .
Dusty
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Well the only physics text I can easily lay my hands on is a school one which doesn't go into the question so yes, I'll let it go. I'll bet you a chocolate fish though that I'm right.
Sounds like you have been here quite often?
Yes John I have had many debates and discussions on Albert's theory while a university student and they continue.
Rarely delve into the math these days.
I have a relative that is a professor of physics at a university that keeps me up on the latest developments.
I respect your views and I guess we all may be wrong or right..time will tell.
cheers,
mike
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A situation that brings about our return to biological transport would also in all likelihood bring about a vast reduction in population figures, to the point where we will be fortunate if mankind survives at all, so such problems, even news reports, are unlikely. Certainly not something to look forward to, but it's happened before and there are any number of things that could cause such a disaster some of which appear more or less immanent.
So, you're talking about the Apocalypse then. I'm not sure I'd want to survive such an event anyway, in which case, I won't worry about it. :thumb:
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Two speeds.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/rocker_zpsb1cpn0sd.gif)
One forward, one back.
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Welp, I'm late to this topic but here's my 2 cents. In 10 years it will not be possible to buy a gasoline powered motorcycle. Battery technology will have buried the piston engine. Elon Musk, Toyota, the Koreans and the Chinese are all putting big money into battery development. More than half the worlds new power plants built last year do not run on fossil fuels. The OPEC countries see the writing on the wall. So if you're a piston head, enjoy the ride. Your time (my time too) is OVAH. Electric vehicles are the future, and the future is fast approaching. Electric motorcycles will far outperform their gasoline cousins. Motorcycles will continue to be a source of great pleasure, so will continue to sell well.
Tires will have a majority of silicone in them. Rubber will slowly fade into history.
Due to battery development, small, boutique motorcycle manufacturers will be able to compete with the big boys for market share. We will see more manufacturers on the playing field.
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In the perfect world of the near future, I can easily see a local print shop spitting out a 3d printed motorcycle made of bio-deegradeable, recycleable pulped wood fibers and glue.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/wood%20grain%20motocycle_zpsnxxgmszi.jpg)
Just dont get it wet too much.
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In ten years time I would like to see a minimum of 100mpg for all vehicles. Let's face it modern bikes are full of gizmos but still are no better than previous machines on fuel economy.
Or a long overdue practical replacement for the piston engine not using fossil fuels would be better.
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I would be happy with the simple type 74 Imperial speeder bike as they were used in the Star Wars movie
"Return of the Jedi".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXj8VMfXsJU
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Jim I think I would prefer this one, though I'm not sure where I would stow the tent and the saddle bags.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Bloodfin_negvv.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Bloodfin_negvv.jpg.html)
What I do see happening is a melding of the scooter and the motorcycle. This is happening to some extent now. We see what would still be classified as scooters appearing now with bigger engines and much increased capabilities. I see this trend continuing until there is no distinction between the two.
This has been attempted before to a limited extent by various feet forward one offs and sometimes attempts at manufacture.
An early attempt
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/feet%20forward%20old.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/feet%20forward%20old.jpg.html)
A custom one (I think)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/feet%20foward%20custom.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/feet%20foward%20custom.jpg.html)
Most of these were hamstrung from the outset by lousy styling and in many cases by some built in impracticalities. The most successful was probably the Quasar which went into production for a while. It did not live up to it's looks though due to the choice of a low powered Reliant car engine. A strange choice and a pity.
The Quasar
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/feet%20forward%20Quasar.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/feet%20forward%20Quasar.jpg.html)
I see such things in our future as we finally leave the over developed bicycle frame behind. Center hub steering is a good thing too.
Something like this perhaps.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/feet%20forward%20future.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/feet%20forward%20future.jpg.html)
It could come with or without full enclosure, maybe electric powered, or, as an interim measure diesel-electric? The electric part maybe incorporated in the back wheel?
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Discussed before.
http://thekneeslider.com/peraves-ecomobile-monotracer-e-tracer-and-x-tracer-cabin-motorcycles/
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In the future I reckon it'll be commonplace to order a new motorbike and have it spec'd to personal choice at the production line. Just like cars.
Electric bikes will happen, and once they are affordable to the masses, it might be just what we need to get a new generation onto PTW. Especially if manufacturers grasp that fact and see electric bikes as a blank sheet for exciting designs.
Us old fogies and the traditional i/c engined motorcycle are old news. If I was 20 and went to a bike meeting, I'd see bellies, baldies and wrinklies. I'd turn straight round and look elsewhere for my kicks.
:grin:
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Welp, I'm late to this topic but here's my 2 cents. In 10 years it will not be possible to buy a gasoline powered motorcycle.
You REALLY think this?
Not without a full on devastating WWIII.
I just cannot see the tech and infrastructure changing THAT fast.
Hell, we've been hearing the air-cooled motor was dead for longer than that.
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10 years is a remarkably short time for new technology development. :smiley: Just a model change will be on the boards (monitors, now) for 4 years.
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Hard to X out combustion engines when gas is getting cheaper. Seems OPEC is trying to bust the other producers out of competition.
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Hard to X out combustion engines when gas is getting cheaper. Seems OPEC is trying to bust the other producers out of competition.
Isn't it amazing? Taking inflation into account, we have gasoline at about 1970s prices now.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/get-ready-for-dollar2-gasoline-again/ar-AAgbyIG?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U147IDHP