Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: professor on December 14, 2015, 09:50:05 PM
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In another thread we beat the issue of "lifestyle marketing" to death. Killed it. Today I was reading a German auto publication. MBenz and Audi bought large interest in two motorcycle companies MV Agusta and Ducati. In fact they may soon own them outright. The article suggested that neither care about motorcycles, but want to tap into the lifestyle markets of the young. They can't do it with just cars alone.
In the US the average age of motorcycle buyers went from 21 to 34 to 47 between 2001 and 2013. To recapture the glitter the big companies are seeking small custom shops to rework their bikes. New Ideas equal new buyers??
Do you ever feel manipulated by marketing? I fear the days of small personalized MC dealers is numbered once the car guys get into this.....if they do.
The new kits from Guzzi started in small custom shops I am told. So, they too are in the game.
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Do you ever feel manipulated by marketing?
duh...
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Car makers have done this for some time. MB did the AMG thing. Ford did the Shelby deal and Saab said to heck with it and made the Viggen.
The smaller custom shops can't sell to the up and coming crowd, their stuff costs to much money and lead times are too long. People want it now and while they might pay some additional money to get some quasi custom goodies, they aren't about to shell out 8 grand for some one-off items, not most people anyway.
The smaller shops will have their customers, most of them are harder core anyway. Audi doesn't want the customer who buys a bike and then goes through years of customizing and remaking, they want the buyer who gets a new bike to go with their new Audi, hopefully every few years at most.
If it gets more people into buying bikes, its a good thing. What the car makers like that will bring are improved production techniques, maybe more support and in the end, greater market awareness.
One TT coming up, would you like a bike with that, color matched?
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Hummm, there is talk that Ducati might be sold to generate some cash for VW. The Germans need to pay for getting caught up in a bit of scandal surrounding their diesel engines. So much for lifestyle.
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VW has owned Ducati for some time now. I'm surprised that no manufacturer bid for EBR, any bid over $1.6 mil would have bought it on thursday.
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Piaggio is doing it with MG in a reverse way.
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It seems that if there were any real cross-selling potential that we would see BMW and Honda already doing it. When the BMW motorcycle dealer in North San Diego County first opened, it was in the BMW car dealership. They tried all kinds of combo car/motorcycle/trailer deals but failed. Now the BMW motorcycle dealer (which added Moto Guzzi recently) is independently located.
Most of the motorcyclists I know are not that into new cars. I don't give a crap about the family car - but I love my truck, because motorcycles can go in the back or in the trailer. One of my neighbors had a Harley Davidson special edition Ford F-250 - but his motorcycle was a KTM 450 and he had no interest in a Harley.
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Personally, I like marketing. I like ads. I like window shopping. Of course, I like buying stuff, but I also like simply learning about new products. In magazines, I really enjoy looking a the advertisements.
Sometimes I don't know what I need or even want. Marketing is there to help me see the light!
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It seems that if there were any real cross-selling potential that we would see BMW and Honda already doing it. When the BMW motorcycle dealer in North San Diego County first opened, it was in the BMW car dealership. They tried all kinds of combo car/motorcycle/trailer deals but failed. Now the BMW motorcycle dealer (which added Moto Guzzi recently) is independently located.
Most of the motorcyclists I know are not that into new cars. I don't give a crap about the family car - but I love my truck, because motorcycles can go in the back or in the trailer. One of my neighbors had a Harley Davidson special edition Ford F-250 - but his motorcycle was a KTM 450 and he had no interest in a Harley.
BMW and Honda don't need to do it. Honda makes everything you could want that has an engine, from lawn mowers to jets. They don't need any cross over sales, they get them.no matter what.
Want a portable generator and something really quiet? Honda. Corporate Jet? They have those too now.
BMW says they make the ultimate driving machine. I don't think more than a few of those ultimate drivers want to be ultimate riders, the two are in conflict with each other, one trying to run over the other and that other one trying to just stay alive.
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I've always wondered about that "Ultimate Driving Machine" bit.
By definition, there can be only one "Ultimate" anything (much like The Highlander.) So if BMW builds two cars, then one is the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and the other one is not.
:grin:
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I've always wondered about that "Ultimate Driving Machine" bit.
By definition, there can be only one "Ultimate" anything (much like The Highlander.) So if BMW builds two cars, then one is the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and the other one is not.
:grin:
A marketing guy's nightmare
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n the US the average age of motorcycle buyers went from 21 to 34 to 47 between 2001 and 2013.
21? In 2001? No way. Some one screwed the pooch on that statistic.
EDIT - ok had a second to look it up. In. 2010 JD power said it was 49, up from 40 in 2001. That sounds more reasonable.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/12/j-d-power-study-u-s-motorcycle-riders-aging-and-leaving-market/
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VW has owned Ducati for some time now.
Possibly not for much longer. Due to the amount of money it is going to cost them to clean up the emissions scandal, they are considering selling Ducati, Bugatti, Bently and Lamborghini.
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Let's see, Guzzi and............Suba ru. :bike-037:
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You joke , but that would probably be a good marriage .
Dusty
Sounds Scary to me. My sister's 2011 Subaru was burning oil like crazy at 25k miles. Took a lot of threatening to get them to fix it, and they had to replace the whole short block! They were in denial over it.
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Sounds Scary to me. My sister's 2011 Subaru was burning oil like crazy at 25k miles. Took a lot of threatening to get them to fix it, and they had to replace the whole short block! They were in denial over it.
If it were valve train problems I'd say it were a marriage made in heaven...
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Sounds Scary to me. My sister's 2011 Subaru was burning oil like crazy at 25k miles. Took a lot of threatening to get them to fix it, and they had to replace the whole short block! They were in denial over it.
I follow Honda, Corvette & Lexus forums...... Engine replacements are common everyday threads. No one makes a perfect anything.
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I follow Honda, Corvette & Lexus forums...... Engine replacements are common everyday threads. No one makes a perfect anything.
That is pretty amazing when you think of how high tech the manufacturing and engineering has gotten.
I was really surprised by Subaru since they normally make good stuff. I am glad to hear they are finally fessing up to their errors, it was not always that way.
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We love our Sube Forester so far. Only 90k on it though. Next vehicle will be the Outback.
*Don't get me started on Audi though....
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Liberals buy Subaru's.
[If there's a hatchback in front of you, odds are there's a Democrat behind the wheel. Among respondents, Democrats were 4 times more likely than Republicans to say they drive a hatchback. In politics, it's not just Elephant against Donkey -- it's F-150 against Honda Fit.
Domestic and Foreign Policy
It may not surprise you that the survey found import cars to be a more popular choice among Democrats than Republicans, with 71% of Dems claiming to drive one. But another piece of data may be a surprise -- imports outnumbered domestics even among the Republicans, where about 57% claimed to drive one. In the survey, Republicans endorsed Ford and GM cars by almost a two-to-one margin compared with Democrats, who preferred Hondas and Toyotas. Chrysler (including its Dodge and Jeep brands) appeared to be common ground, where voters on either side of the aisle were equally likely to own one.
Going upmarket, however, voters in the survey again start to differ: More Democrats chose Acura, while Republicans preferred Lexus. Republicans were also slightly more likely than Democrats to drive German cars. Within the German brands, Republicans reported being partial to BMW and Porsche, while Democrats were more likely to choose Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Is-Your-Car-a-Republican-or-Democrat/
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FOUL! NO politics! :-0
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Subaru...possibly the worst sounding tinny engine ever, always sounds like it's missing complete combustion or driving with 3 out of 4 spark plugs firing. Gutless wonders with Lego type styling, admittedly the state car of Colorado and probably functionally quite good, but they do sound like crap. Did I mention that my Mom has driven one for 20 years and loves them...beats me why...oh well!
As far as motorcyclists not being into cars - what data supports that? All the motorcyclists I know are into cars in a big way, could be older Land Rovers, sports cars, or other unusual brands, or racing them, and certainly appreciate something more interesting than a Toyota Tercel. Of course, my opinion is statistically irrelevant, so I suppose it's possible, maybe people splurge on a motorcycle and have less disposable income for a car...don't know.
Who knows if VW will sell their premium marques...the CEO the other day said he wouldn't be selling off these profitable divisions, and now VW's Diesel issue latest perspective is that instead of 800,000 cars being affected, it might be a paltry 36000. Who knows yet the real truth. Happy to say that my Passat passed inspection however this weekend and no recall has been issued yet...now I'm wondering if the real number is only 36K cars affected, that may lessen the gap payment that VW will have to pay eventually for loss of market value.
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Who knows if VW will sell their premium marques...the CEO the other day said he wouldn't be selling off these profitable divisions, and now VW's Diesel issue latest perspective is that instead of 800,000 cars being affected, it might be a paltry 36000. Who knows yet the real truth. Happy to say that my Passat passed inspection however this weekend and no recall has been issued yet...now I'm wondering if the real number is only 36K cars affected, that may lessen the gap payment that VW will have to pay eventually for loss of market value.
FALSE
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/09/volkswagen-says-false-carbon-dioxider-emissions-affect-only-36000-cars.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/09/volkswagen-says-false-carbon-dioxider-emissions-affect-only-36000-cars.html)
That's the "Carbon Emissions" issue that came up after the Diesel NOx emissions issue. IIRC, this one also affects petrol powered vehicles.
The number of vehicles affected the original Diesel NOx issues (420,000 2.0L TDI vehicles in the US alone + the V6's that were later implicated) has not gone down.
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This from the people who brought us WWII and brazenly tout German engineering. The message from the LA street was; 'Can't we all get along'? Well no. Not if there's money to be made. R3~
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This from the people who brought us WWII and brazenly tout German engineering. The message from the LA street was; 'Can't we all get along'? Well no. Not if there's money to be made. R3~
Ze Deutsche Mark vill return soon! :)
German engineering is still pretty quite amazing on the whole, however there are pockets of bad German behavior however:
Deutsche Bank, Siemens, SAP and VW have all been involved in some serious ethical scandals in the last few years...and you are 100% correct...where there is money to be made, then cheating and unethical behavior will be right alongside...
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FALSE
That's the "Carbon Emissions" issue that came up after the Diesel NOx emissions issue. The number of vehicles affected the original Diesel NOx issues (420,000 2.0L TDI vehicles in the US alone + the V6's that were later implicated) has not gone down.
I stand corrected...thanks Jas. Ok...anxiously awaiting my check from Wolfsburg in ze mail shortly...one can only hope!
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I stand corrected...thanks Jas. Ok...anxiously awaiting my check from Wolfsburg in ze mail shortly...one can only hope!
In addition to the $500 dealer credit, and $500 VISA Gift card, there are, possibly buy-outs and/or trade-in incentives. A co-worker that has a 2012 Passat just got a letter from VW touting "trade-in incentives." No details, the details are at the dealer. He said that he'd keep me posted. Meanwhile, I'm watching the mailbox.
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Let's see, Guzzi and............Suba ru. :bike-037:
Then.....a "symmetrical all wheel drive" motorcycle, for getting through thick snow.
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SAAB Group, which has the aerospace group that designs and builds aircraft is not part of the car company (now owned by a Chinese company if memory serves). To further confuse matters, SAAB trucks are another company.
The car company did not build the Viggen to boost the car image. Not that it would have been a bad idea if they had - in any event a private company would have a very hard time doing a fighter on its' own dime on spec.
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I dunno, I could see a marraige between VW and MG.. how cool would a custom VW Van you could drive your Guzzi in to with built in ramps be? :)
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I've always wondered about that "Ultimate Driving Machine" bit.
By definition, there can be only one "Ultimate" anything (much like The Highlander.) So if BMW builds two cars, then one is the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and the other one is not.
:grin:
". . . the 2016 BMW 328i - the penultimate driving machine."
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Let's see, Guzzi and............Suba ru. :bike-037:
Gu-baru
I love it.
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In addition to the $500 dealer credit, and $500 VISA Gift card, there are, possibly buy-outs and/or trade-in incentives. A co-worker that has a 2012 Passat just got a letter from VW touting "trade-in incentives." No details, the details are at the dealer. He said that he'd keep me posted. Meanwhile, I'm watching the mailbox.
Yeah...that pathetic offer from VW is way below what would be required in my view. I've stopped by 2 dealers to ask about trade - ins on my 2014 Passat TDI SE, the value the VW dealer places on the Diesel Passats is well below what it should be...evidence of the loss of market value. If VW corporate is willing to bridge that gap...great...until then, will just keep driving it and unfortunately polluting more than it should. Dealerships don't know much about the resolution, they would just like to sell a new car, and any Diesels they are taking in are valued much lower than desired and just sitting in the backlot since they cannot be sold.
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Meh , cars are boring ...
Dusty
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Meh , cars are boring ... Dusty
:) Sure...I believe you!! haha!
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Let's see, Guzzi and............Suba ru. :bike-037:
I have had a few Subarus, including my current 2006 Baja Turbo 5-speed (now at 94,000). I have had a few Guzzis, including my current 2008 - new in 2011 - Norge (now at 102,000). I have had a few political thoughts, including my current and longstanding extreme ones (liberals are centrists in my view).
None of the above have been entirely trouble-free, but all have been very rewarding and well suited to my values and what I appreciate :wink:
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Meh , cars are boring ...
You have to sitting in the right cars..... :wink:
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You have to sitting in the right cars..... :wink:
I can't afford a 1970's Can Am car ...
Dusty
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Oh , and let's keep our politics to ourselves please , thank you .
Dusty
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Subaru's do have a wimpy sound. But they do make a very good car (bias'd, we own an Outback). Very high resale value too.
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Don't remember what Zoom Zoom's WRX sounded like. I was going too fast. :-0
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As far as motorcyclists not being into cars - what data supports that? All the motorcyclists I know are into cars in a big way, could be older Land Rovers, sports cars, or other unusual brands, or racing them, and certainly appreciate something more interesting than a Toyota Tercel. Of course, my opinion is statistically irrelevant, so I suppose it's possible, maybe people splurge on a motorcycle and have less disposable income for a car...don't know.
I think this question may have been in prompted by my earlier post. No data. I was only sharing my experience of people I know - as are you.
But I also appreciate something more interesting than a Tercel. I've been in some fast cars and really enjoyed driving a Tesla roadster for a 1/2 hour. But after that I still only wanted to ride my motorcycle. If I had enough money to buy a really special car, I'd still rather spend it on a herd of motorcycles. Coincidentally, I am in Houston on business today and my rental car is a Toyota Prius - it's adequate - I don't like it or dislike it - it's just there and it's fine.
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My apologies on behalf of the rental car choice...I could have offered you a Guzzi to ride as your "rental", or something more entertaining in the 4 wheel variety!
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The WRX's sound awesome in my opinion. (google WRX sounds or wrx drag racing sometime). They have a nice low rumble that almost is V8-ish. A buddy of mine (about 4 blocks away) has a WRX with a Stage 1 kit on it. I can hear him start it up in the morning.
They can sound demonic as well, with turbo waste-gate noises and backfires..
My Forester is as quiet as a mouse.. :thumb:
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The WRX's sound awesome in my opinion. (google WRX sounds or wrx drag racing sometime). They have a nice low rumble that almost is V8-ish. A buddy of mine (about 4 blocks away) has a WRX with a Stage 1 kit on it. I can hear him start it up in the morning.
They can sound demonic as well, with turbo waste-gate noises and backfires..
My Forester is as quiet as a mouse.. :thumb:
Would like to race that WRX with my little Dodge Avenger. :evil:
My take is WRX drivers have an attitude.
BMW, Audi and Mercedes drivers have a attitude too. :evil:
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"My take is WRX drivers have an attitude."
And all wheel drive for great launches. Don't start watching the Youtubes of WRX drag races because you'll find yourself sitting at the box watching all kinds of cars going at each other.