Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: U4EA on January 01, 2016, 08:26:00 PM
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Specs
2007 MOTOGUZZI CALIFORNIA VINTAGE
6700 on the odometer
Has full maint records and they are on par with factory recommendations.
He is asking top dollar $6000
My questions are as follows: (Looking for opinions and discussion). I never bought a used bike before that was not from a friend who I could trust.
1) What trouble do I look for besides the cracking tail light bracket? I know the standard stuff like leaks and such. Looking for the Moto Guzzi specific stuff relative to this model.
2) How would you formulate a price in your head. For example, let's say the tires are shot and it would be $600 to replace. Would you subtract $600 from the asking price and base your offer there?
I have ridden Guzzis and like them so this bike is attractive to me.
JR
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Calvin 2007 where are you ?
Dusty
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I have an '07. It has been remarkably trouble-free. I had the fuel line slip off the in-tank fuel pump once...a common problem. Apart from that, I would look for rust on the chrome bits (especially the wheels, seat surround, and saddlebag mounts) and signs of electrical tinkering (wires patched with electrical tape). The standard bulbs in the spot lamps (55w) can overwhelm the capacity of the alternator so check the condition of the battery. The biggest problem I had with my Vintage as stock was really lean fuel injection mapping just off idle. You may wish to ask if the bike is running the most current factory fi map and pay close attention when conducting a test ride. A little roughness on takeoff can be easily corrected, but severe snatchiness should be suspect.
My Vintage is the finest motorcycle I've ever owned. I have worked out the bugs and ergonomic compromises and now have a bike I will keep for a long time. Good luck...I hope it works out for you.
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With respect, in case a forum member is selling it, things like tires are tough to deduct if they are serviceable. You said they are shot so take 100% of that off since 100% is what is going to come out of your pocket to be able to ride it. Owner might want to negotiate that but selling a bike with worn tires is different than selling with worn out tires. Tires, like brakes are expendables but should at least be OK to ride out on, if not, no way for top dollar sale unless it is a collector or rare.
For MG specific, others will be along shortly.
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I was just reading about the OEM fuel hoses being non-tolerant in terms of ethanol. Where are all the hoses that must be changed? Is this an easy job and obvious? Radiator clamp type attachments?
I assume this is why the above post mentions the fuel line slipping off.
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A forum member is not selling this bike.
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that price is $2,000 too high if in the US.. keep looking..
for instance, here is a really nice bike that is basically the same as a Vintage.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80531.0
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that price is $2,000 too high if in the US.. keep looking..
for instance, here is a really nice bike that is basically the same as a Vintage.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80531.0
It is in the US. however, 01 versus 07 is not a big difference in terms of value?
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It is in the US. however, 01 versus 07 is not a big difference in terms of value?
not when you try to re-sell it.
It's same/same maybe the Vin has some updated version on some parts but it's still the same old ditch pump motor..
it's not easy finding a buyer for Moto Guzzi's in general but when your asking retail book price (I'm only guessing at that) you will be waiting for a real sucker or newby..
I wouldn't worry about any of us jumping in to buy it if that's why you don't reveal your location.
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Ok well that is why I am asking. I have no Guzzi buying experience. So you are saying if the bike is in good shape $4,000 is a good target price?
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a few years ago I let go of my 99 Bassa for about $3500.. had to drop the price just to find a buyer.. MAN that was a fabulous bike, in many ways better than the later Vintage..had Staintune exhaust (WOW) adjustable suspension/tubeless rims/full HB luggage etc..
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/0/L/IMG_0500-L.jpg)
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Ok well that is why I am asking. I have no Guzzi buyting experience. So you are saying if the bike is in good shape $4,000 is a good target price?
YES
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Calvin's (2007-2010) are still bringing a higher price than the earlier Californias. There are differences, and NONE are as beautiful as the Vintage. Sold my white '09 a couple years ago to a friend. I do miss it when I see it again.
$5K is about right for a 2007.
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I just missed a Bassa last year. I forget the year but he wanted $3500 for it.
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Calvin's (2007-2010) are still bringing a higher price than the earlier Californias. There are differences, and NONE are as beautiful as the Vintage. Sold my white '09 a couple years ago to a friend. I do miss it when I see it again.
$5K is about right for a 2007.
Would you say it is fair to deduct 100% of the cost of repairs needed?
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The fuel pump and filter are in the tank and the original hose between them swells and slips off...shutting down the bike...because Guzzi used the wrong hose. Ethanol had nothing to do with it...the hose was not submersible rated. At 6000+ miles it has likely been fixed.
The brake rotors can warp and cause pulsations readily noticeable in the front brakes.
Pinging (detonation) on pump fuel especially in hot weather can be a problem. Reflashing the ECU is the best bet.
Tail light bracket breaking can be easily fixed with a short strap up to the luggage rack to stabilize the light.
If you fill it with oil to the full line it will blow oil all over the place. Half way between add and full is plenty.
put 35W bulbs in the aux lights rather than the 55W. Your battery will thank you.
It's a good Guzzi. Mine has 20,000 miles on it and I have done no serious repairs other than the fuel line in the tank...and that's hardly serious at home in the shop. I am currently experimenting with using GuzziDiag to modify fuel and ignition maps in the ecu just to see if I can tailor it to what I like. I have a difficult time leaving well enough alone.
I think a good '07 with 50% tires is worth $5500 if it is nice. There's a lot of bike there. You'll never find one close to $4000 around here. (Kansas)
Terry
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I'm not familiar with the CALVIN you're looking at, but I'll share with you my experience. I decided to buy one about a year and a half ago. It was my first MG so I did a lot of research; both mechanical and prices. It didn't take me long to realize that the CALVIN (07-10) is a highly desirable model, and for a number of good reasons. It also began apparent that despite what people were claiming to be a good price unfortunately did not match the reality of the asking and sales prices I seen after talking to current and previous owners. I would say this: if the bike is clean, has had all the scheduled maintenance, no signs of being wrecked, and despite the conditions of the tires and the fuel filter issue, the bike is worth $6k. In fact I would jump on it. Of note: after the first 100 miles you ride it you'll probably say it's the best motorcycle purchase you've ever made. I love mine (been riding for 40 years) and put on over 12k miles since I bought it.
R, KBuck
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not when you try to re-sell it.
It's same/same maybe the Vin has some updated version on some parts but it's still the same old ditch pump motor..
it's not easy finding a buyer for Moto Guzzi's in general but when your asking retail book price (I'm only guessing at that) you will be waiting for a real sucker or newby..
I wouldn't worry about any of us jumping in to buy it if that's why you don't reveal your location.
Breva 1100 engine internals.
The Cal Vin has been selling for quite a bit more than Bassa.
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Would you say it is fair to deduct 100% of the cost of repairs needed?
It's fair for you to offer whatever you want. It's fair for the owner to ask what he wants.
Don't beat the guy up. Offer him what you're willing to pay and see how it goes.
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Here's how my negotiation would go. Remember, I owned Calvin for 5 years. Also, when I fall in love with a motorcycle I buy with my heart, not my head.
Buyer: How much do you want for that beauty?
Seller: $6,000.
Buyer: Well, it needs new tires for me to make it road worthy. I'll give you $5,000 cash right now.
Seller: Come on man, this isn't a Bassa or EV. I need more, it's a California Vintage!
(OR, if you offer $4K he says "get the hell off my property" and it ends here.)
Buyer: Let's meet in the middle, $5,500 - If a test ride shakes out.
Seller: Sold! But I'm gonna need to hold the cash while you take it for a spin.
Buyer: Deal! Let me grab my helmet and gloves while you gather up any spare parts and maintenance records. Get the title ready, I haven't met a Guzzi I didn't like.
When I get back I've got a shit-eating grin I can't wipe off and we shake hands as he helps me load it on the trailer.
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The fuel pump and filter are in the tank and the original hose between them swells and slips off...shutting down the bike...because Guzzi used the wrong hose. Ethanol had nothing to do with it...the hose was not submersible rated. At 6000+ miles it has likely been fixed.
Is there a plate or something to access this in the tank? I have been searching for a shop manual online. Seems every Guzzi manual is online except the one for an 07 Vintage.
Pinging (detonation) on pump fuel especially in hot weather can be a problem. Reflashing the ECU is the best bet.
If you fill it with oil to the full line it will blow oil all over the place. Half way between add and full is plenty.
The crankcase or the rear end?
put 35W bulbs in the aux lights rather than the 55W. Your battery will thank you.
What about high wattage LED bulbs?
It's a good Guzzi. Mine has 20,000 miles on it and I have done no serious repairs other than the fuel line in the tank...and that's hardly serious at home in the shop. I am currently experimenting with using GuzziDiag to modify fuel and ignition maps in the ecu just to see if I can tailor it to what I like. I have a difficult time leaving well enough alone.
Does this require additional electronics like a power commander type device?
I think a good '07 with 50% tires is worth $5500 if it is nice. There's a lot of bike there. You'll never find one close to $4000 around here. (Kansas)
Terry
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Here's how my negotiation would go. Remember, I owned Calvin for 5 years. Also, when I fall in love with a motorcycle I buy with my heart, not my head.
Buyer: How much do you want for that beauty?
Seller: $6,000.
Buyer: Well, it needs new tires for me to make it road worthy. I'll give you $5,000 cash right now.
Seller: Come on man, this isn't a Bassa or EV. I need more, it's a California Vintage!
Buyer: Let's meet in the middle, $5,500 - If a test ride shakes out.
Seller: Sold! But I'm gonna need to hold the cash while you take it for a spin.
Buyer: Deal! Let me grab my helmet and gloves.
When I get back I've got a shit-eating grin I can't wipe off and we shake hands.
Understand. I typically check a few more things than the tires. I try to research problem areas specific to the bike. Look for leaks and take it for a good long test drive.
Normally you can assess if the guy is a poser (trying to buy a bike for $6000 and sell it after 4 years for $6000). If the guy is a jerk I just walk too. Also if he is too in love with it (cluding sane judgement) that is another problem. I have had all of these scenarios.
My other fear with this type of bike is that it has been sitting for a long duration. I would have to get it really hot and look for leaks in hard to access areas.
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The ONLY oil leaks I've ever seen on these bikes is from an incorrectly installed and compromised valve cover gasket. Cheap and easy fix.
Here's the replacement fuel line. It's the hose that runs into and out of the fuel filter. I'd check it out anyway. There IS an access plate under the tank, and expect it to be a pain in the balls getting the fuel pump out and in.
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=16+13+1+455+350
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Forgot to mention the bike has the top trunk option with it. I assume that is worth something. Not a deal maker/breaker though.
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Forgot to mention the bike has the top trunk option with it. I assume that is worth something. Not a deal maker/breaker though.
That's a big plus. Search "Calvin" here for tons of info.
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asking $5300.
http://cfl.craigslist.org/mcy/5336913653.html
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Remove the fuel tank and there is an oval plate with screws. The fuel pump assembly is attached to the back side of the plate,and will take some cursing to remove.
Overfilling the engine oil pushes oil out the breather and it makes a mess.
LED bulbs would be a good choice.
No Power Commander required or wanted. The GuzziDiag software is free if you want to do it yourself. $20 worth of cables to access the ecu is all you need.
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Saw this post on ADV while doing research. Seems the fuel line are a recall item? http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/tell-me-about-moto-guzzis.871551/#post-20983063 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/tell-me-about-moto-guzzis.871551/#post-20983063)
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Would you say it is fair to deduct 100% of the cost of repairs needed?
Maybe part of the price if the bike was priced excellent condition full retail. I think that price is fine. Id would have paid it when i was looking for a California. Nice guzzis with records for sale from good peop,e dont come along every day. Maybe offer a little less, and be ready to offer more. If this is what you want dont offer a lot less or you might get kicked out and then youll have lost out on a good bike.
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Maybe part of the price if the bike was priced excellent condition full retail. I think that price is fine. Id would have paid it when i was looking for a California. Nice guzzis with records for sale from good peop,e dont come along every day. Maybe offer a little less, and be ready to offer more. If this is what you want dont offer a lot less or you might get kicked out and then youll have lost out on a good bike.
Then I send in the backup negotiator. :grin:
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90's and 2000's Guzzi cruisers in my area sell for $3,500 or usually way less. $6,000 is a pipe dream.
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90's and 2000's Guzzi cruisers in my area sell for $3,500 or usually way less. $6,000 is a pipe dream.
True. But not the Calvin's.
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I am by no means a Guzzi expert, but I do watch prices. I saw a CalVin go on ebay and sell on CL for that price. I think it's fair.
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There's a 2007 CalVin listed in the "for sale" section of this forum for $6k:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=79232.0
*Disclaimer: I am not the seller nor do I know him or the bike.
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a few years ago I let go of my 99 Bassa for about $3500.. had to drop the price just to find a buyer.. MAN that was a fabulous bike, in many ways better than the later Vintage..had Staintune exhaust (WOW) adjustable suspension/tubeless rims/full HB luggage etc..
(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/0/L/IMG_0500-L.jpg)
Foto you sold that for $3500 that is a nice setup. I almost bought one similar to that at Moon motors in Minnesota but Stormtruck2 hooked me up with one closer to Kansas.
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90's and 2000's Guzzi cruisers in my area sell for $3,500 or usually way less. $6,000 is a pipe dream.
I am getting a vibe here that year of manufacture is only marginally relevant?
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I am getting a vibe here that year of manufacture is only marginally relevant?
U4EA,
Sent you a PM...
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Foto you sold that for $3500 that is a nice setup. I almost bought one similar to that at Moon motors in Minnesota but Stormtruck2 hooked me up with one closer to Kansas.
I'd buy it back for that right now..
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The Cal-vin is on my dream bike list. If I could get my Jackal and V-strom sold at close to the same time (for a decent price-not likely but that's life) I would be all over a black Cal-vin.
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The Vintage is really a pretty special California. The engine seems to work better at lower revs than most Guzzis (once you work out the fueling) and there are a number of premium options included. Looks are subjective, but I find the Vintage to be the most beautiful of all the Californias. I've always figured that Guzzi knew that the 8-valve models were on the way, but wanted to offer a memorable swan-song for their super successful run of Tonti 1100s. It was a machine that I knew I had to have the moment I saw the promotional photos in '06. I bought the first one available in Knoxville after the US introduction in 2007. Below is a photo of when I first saw a Vintage "in the flesh" at the 2007 International Motorcycle Show in Atlanta:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/MCshow006.jpg)
...and this is how mine looks now:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/b090f3d85307b24d20a8fb062aa586eb.jpg)
I paid a thousand under retail when I bought mine, but looking back I think I would have paid full price. I just love this bike.
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I am getting a vibe here that year of manufacture is only marginally relevant?
Basically, here's what happens. Guzzi's depreciate *very* rapidly from new. Then they reach a lower plateau. After that, they stay in that area for a few years, then start appreciating. Condition means considerably more than actual year of birth..
Right now, the average $2500 bike of several years ago is $3500-$4500, in nice shape. The bike you are talking about is still slowly depreciating. Looking in my crystal ball, I'd say it will eventually bottom out in the 3500-4K range. You won't get hurt at 6 large. If it's as nice as you say, pay the man. :smiley:
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re The breaking taillight bracket. The new design has a wider base. The original
Lasted 3000 miles on my California Stone (direct replacement). That was repaired with some welded support and broke again (maybe after20k). The new design (below left) has been ok for the last 25k.
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/Guzzi156/20110806002.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/Guzzi156/media/20110806002.jpg.html)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/Guzzi156/2F64DABF-B87C-4313-A5DD-07D5326702D6_zpspdpz499z.jpg)
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That is about what I paid for my 2008 Vintage which had several 'upgrades' - tubeless wheels, Harper's Outsider, Matris front suspension, Gazi rear shocks. Being a forum member does not ensure total honesty or guarantee professional installation of upgrades. I am still sorting the suspension. And the fueling. The bike had 16,000 km (10K miles) on it when I purchased it.
I dont mean to jack the thread but I will be looking for a FI map soon - I need to know the version of ECU that is on my machine - I'm guessing from reading this thread that it is the 15RC? Can I tell definitively from a simple inspection?
The ethanol sensitive fuel line is the one that runs between the in-tank fuel pump and filter. MGCycle sell a replacement kit. Simple enough to install, but a bit of a PITA to get the assembly in and out of the tank.
Cheers!
G
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It's fair for you to offer whatever you want. It's fair for the owner to ask what he wants.
Don't beat the guy up. Offer him what you're willing to pay and see how it goes.
Exactly. Don't beat him up. And don't insult him (by insulting his bike).
You could point out negative things on every used bike for sale everywhere.
Unless it's a glaring, huge negative item, just file it in your head without pointing it out first thing.
Very few sellers post a price and expect to get exactly that number. If the bike looks good to you, you could avoid being perceived as insulting by simply saying that your budget is say, $5300, because you have to allot for tax, titling, registration and insurance. He'll either accept that or come back with a counter offer.
In the end, it's what you are willing to spend and what he's willing to take.
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I have nearly 30K on my '07 Vintage and the taillight bracket is doing okay. I had a few of the small Allen head screws back out from places like the turn signal mounts, but the taillight mount is going strong...
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A well sorted out CalVin will not need a power commander.
Jim B at Rosefarm put the proper map in and it runs very strong, really flawlessly.
I followed Sheepdog's lead and put narrower bars on it, added 2 inches to the windshield, put in pop vents on the windshield and increased the seat height by 1.5 inches to improve the ergonomics for me (I am 6'2"). I also added a tail trunk.
Corbin also makes a seat for it now and can add or subtract height to it. The original seat was too soft and low for me.
I can comfortably ride 500 miles a day on it with a s_it eating grin and I typically ride sport bikes or sport touring models.
Don
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(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/jim_wolfe1/gas3_zpsnfggfxp7.jpg)
I've put 20,000 plus miles on my 2009 since I revived it after an accident. The H&H fairing from Harper's and some additional fuel capacity make it an awesome touring machine. If you want one just pay the man. you will forget about the price after few miles.
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Bike is as follows....
Tail-light, some half ass fix on it. Looked like JB plastic weld or something.
Fuel hose - replaced.
Front tire has about 30 percent left.
Rear tire virtually new.
Sounds good
Did not ride - a bit too much ice around.
They say they did an oil change. They did not know anything about the hose clamp mod. Said they never heard of a filter spinning off.
Side stand replaced a few years ago. Not sure if it was a recall or broke or what.
Top Trunk is factory MG
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I just sold my '09 with about 6000 miles for $5500. It had new tires.
FWIW, I still have a tubeless wire rear wheel to sell that fits this bike.
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I just sold my '09 with about 6000 miles for $5500. It had new tires.
FWIW, I still have a tubeless wire rear wheel to sell that fits this bike.
If I can cut a deal on the bike I may be interested. I get the feeling the guy is a weiner. I run about 90 percent success on my weiner predictions but I could be wrong. :popcorn:
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How about posting the info and some photos here. Chances are somebody knows the bike and weiner.