Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vasco DG on January 03, 2016, 09:11:32 PM
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Erika is editing and uploading a video we made this morning but here are some pics to whet the appetite.
The reason I'm stripping one is that one of the cam boxes supplied with a 'D' kit was disassembled and incomplete when I received it. Missing were the three preload washers and bolt for the cam.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1642/24052043722_fab6dce281_z.jpg)
But most annoyingly the tappets themselves were supplied without the rollers that act as guide pegs to keep the tappets true in the cambox bores! On the left is the one removed from the assembled box and on the right the one supplied in a sealed bag from Piaggio! No, the roller wasn't in the bag and isn't available as a separate part! :violent1:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1632/23864493850_b724446999_z.jpg)
This one shows the camber with the cam locking tool installed. This allows you to easily remove the bolt that holds the preload washer system from the other end of the cam/cambox.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1666/23533338883_0be7f0a5d7_z.jpg)
Bolts holding weir of cambox can be removed after the preload arrangement.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1555/24134028146_a426e38215_z.jpg)
and the weir removed exposing the cam which can then be lifted out, (No need to remove the tool.)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1443/23531923084_e14872d521_z.jpg)
Tappets can now be pushed out of the cambox through the cam chamber. Oh look! A locating roller!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1588/24077509571_6c98f05641_z.jpg)
After the tappet has been replaced in the cambox and the cam replaced above it and the weir bolted back on, (Note that the preload end of the cambox is machined to accept the large seating washer of the preload system. Make sure the weir goes back on the right way round!) the large seating washer can be installed on the end of the cam after making sure the cam can rotate and the belville washer and outer pressure washer can be inserted in the second special tool, a sort of 'Cup' that will keep the Belville washer centralised on the boss on the end of the cam as the bolt is tightened.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1462/24052041222_87d45d0a18_z.jpg)
Bolt can now be installed and tightened down.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1479/23792310209_4dbbfc9123_z.jpg)
And the box is reassembled and ready to go on the bike.
IF YOU HAVE ALL THE BLOODY BITS!
Pete
PS I forgot a pic of the cam holding tool as viewed from the drive end of the camshaft.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1506/23866255540_1f2b1fa085_z.jpg)
and the tool itself.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1681/24079272831_2ec781ac5a_z.jpg)
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Thanks for that Pete. I assume the Kid and I will be dealing with this stuff on his Grease O, although he's still in denial.. :smiley:
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The roller assembly looks like it would weight a ton.
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Thanks for that Pete. I assume the Kid and I will be dealing with this stuff on his Grease O, although he's still in denial.. :smiley:
Hopefully your cam kit is assembled like it is supposed to be. Not a 'build your own' like this one that Pete got.
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Thanks for that Pete. I assume the Kid and I will be dealing with this stuff on his Grease O, although he's still in denial.. :smiley:
Yeah, just do it. Pulling the LH cambox is easy-peasy. Once he knows it's just a matter of getting a dealer to slap in the claim.
Pete
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The roller assembly looks like it would weight a ton.
I'll actually take a roller tappet and a Flattie and pushrod up to the post office and weigh them on some accurate scales but I was actually surprised. While the roller is, I think, slightly heavier is really isn't much but of course the mass is reciprocating really fast when you hit the limiter at 8,750 :evil:
Pete
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I'll actually take a roller tappet and a Flattie and pushrod up to the post office and weigh them on some accurate scales but I was actually surprised. While the roller is, I think, slightly heavier is really isn't much but of course the mass is reciprocating really fast when you hit the limiter at 8,750 :evil:
Pete
Only 73 times per second? Piece of cake! :evil: :wink:
Terry
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OK, can't embed because we ain't clever enough but here is a link.
Please realise I am not a professional presenter. Arse!
https://youtu.be/l5oSIfUxUW4
Hope it works. Perhaps someone with better 'Pooter skills will work it out. I do bikes. Daughter does Parrots!
pete
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Pete thank you ever so much. I've been following along with all this roller conversion stuff only out of mechanical curiosity because I'll probably never see one of these apart, I simply couldn't visualize the construction of this. You have fixed me well sir.
Brian
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Pete, thanks for the video. I had a guy from out of state call me a couple weeks ago to see if I could do that update for him. Most of my experience has been with older models so, I was honest with him and told him his would be my first one. I hope he found someone experienced in his area to do the job for him. I have a question, does the cam box come with the update or just the followers and cams?
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Pete, thanks for the video. I had a guy from out of state call me a couple weeks ago to see if I could do that update for him. Most of my experience has been with older models so, I was honest with him and told him his would be my first one. I hope he found someone experienced in his area to do the job for him. I have a question, does the cam box come with the update or just the followers and cams?
The entire cam box, cam and rollers, are in the kit, normally assembled. You reuse the rocker arms.
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Thanks Wayne, looks like plug and play unless you want to be sure all the parts are included.
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:1: Very good video and thanks.
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Thanks Wayne, looks like plug and play unless you want to be sure all the parts are included.
Yup, Joe, it's all usually very easy. In the case of this kit some lazy idiot just poured a whole load of parts into a box and sent it out and the parts weren't even sufficient to build an entire cambox. This is the first time I've used the cambox assembly tools. I'm sure you can get by without them but like so many special tools they just make the job easy.
As I keep saying there is nothing difficult or mysterious with the 8V. It remains as simple and intuitive to work on as the earlier models. It just has a few more parts, thassall!
Pete
PS, sorry, forgot to explain, because the flat and roller tappets are dimensionally different and the rollers have to be located to keep them running true with that roller that moves in a groove in the cambox casting the only parts you re-use are the rockers themselves and the locating/oil feed dowels that go betwixt cambox and head. The rest of the cambox including the camshaft, tappets and pushrods are all scrap.
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Pete, that video is a thing of beauty. Well done, sir!
Bob
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It was made using Erika's expensive, hi-res digital video camera which she bought for her wildlife work that's why the quality is so good. I think she said it cost a couple of grand with all of the widgets to go with it. It's certainly a lot better quality than the crappy vids I can take with my not-particularly-bright-phone!
Pete
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I meant not only the video quality, but the well-thought-out presentation you provided us. The combination made for a how-to-do video that will be with the Guzzi community for years to come.
Bob
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Put an A kit in today, everything in assembled cambox was dry, no ass lube, just a bit of moly on the cam lobes nose.. ALWAYS check their shit cause it may be not quite rite.
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I always drench the camboxes with oil before whacking the lids back on and then spin the donk over on the starter until I'm sure its got oil pressure before firing it up. They are as tight with assembly lube as they are with grease in bearings!
pete
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. . . the mass is reciprocating really fast when you hit the limiter at 8,750 :evil: . . .
I was under the impression that they specify a re-map for the Roller Kit, which includes a lower Rev-Limit setting, 8000rpm?
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I was under the impression that they specify a re-map for the Roller Kit, which includes a lower Rev-Limit setting, 8000rpm?
Good question. I have heard that all they do is reset the learned parameter so it relearns. And I have heard it is a new map which changes the rev limit, among other things.
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What the Bullitan says is for the motor to have the latest map in it, ex: ST02 for a dual O2 Stelvio.
The latest mapping was mostly done on flat tappet motors not rollers.
As in the Stelvio w/traction control, Griso hasn't changed since the Tenni 2012, Norge was w/dual O2 sensors. It's not some new map at all. If you have an 09 model w/rollers you are to put in the later map.
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I was under the impression that they specify a re-map for the Roller Kit, which includes a lower Rev-Limit setting, 8000rpm?
All the flat and roller maps (Stelvio/Norge/Sport) have an 8500 limit, except the Griso 2230G803 map (current since 2010) which has an 8000 RPM limit. I don't know why. The non-homogolated 2229GRSV68 Griso map had an 8500 RPM limit.
All the custom flattie maps I make have an 8500 limit. All the custom roller maps have an 8750 limit, except for the Sport, which has an 8500 limit. My custom roller map for my Griso has a 9000 RPM limit.
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Just to clarify, you cannot put the ST02 map in an 09 Stelvio. Some of the tables and parameters are quite different on the 2 sensor models.
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Pete, is that fiddley little roller held in place with a small shaft, or do you simply grease it to hold it in place when reassembling, and the 'fit' retains it? Not the roller tappet, but the little roller you show that keeps the tappet in alignment with the cam lobe?
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Hell, I shouldn't have posted at all today, I was full of it this morning. Good thing everyone else is here.
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So then what map DOES a single O2 2009 Stelvio get?
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So then what map DOES a single O2 2009 Stelvio get?
from guzzi you get then 2229STA42Z if you have abs, 2229STA42ZA if you have no abs
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Excellent Pete, with you around I would have no problem owning a pre roller 8V. A little curious why they used a roller there as a small bearing ball might have been as good? No worries.. thank you for teaching us all!