Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dl.allen on January 08, 2016, 07:13:23 PM
-
Finally got my dream bike, a low mile v11 lemans and love it......until I went on a 3000 mile ride with my buddies who ride Harley Baggers. It killed by ass, back and wrists. I'm by no means a Harley guy and love the Lemans but maybe, just maybe, I may be getting a little old to ride it over 300 miles at a whack. So....
The other day I was at the dealer and they had a Griso which I sat on and it fit me like a glove with neutral seating position etc. It "felt" like a bike I could ride for long ways. I have yet to actually ride one since its winter here. But then I got to thinking...I really only take about 1 long trip a year so maybe I should just mod out the V11?
After some research I found some options on bar risers and footpeg relocation rearsets. I really don't like the idea of messing with the original design intent of the Lemans and would feel like a bit of a poser to change it.
So..just wondering what all of your thoughts are?
-
Mod the v11..
Have a custom seat made. With a good seat to alter your ergos a little , better suspension (it makes a huge difference), and that might be all you need.
I've tried to "upgrade" but the V11 is just cooler and better. It truly is the last of the hairy chested Guzzis.
-
Mod the V11. Many have replaced the clip-ons with handle bars, and it makes a huge difference. Some have put on convertibars with good success as well. http://www.harpermoto.com/v11-convertibar.html
The Sargent seat on my V11S is great for long distance.
I had a Griso 1100 years ago, and the ergos weren't what I expected...it took a few months to get used to it, but then it was good after that. Not sure if it'd be my choice for a 3k trip in stock form, though.
Either way, I think you'd have to mod either bike for a trip that long.
Ken
-
Mod the v11..
Have a custom seat made. With a good seat to alter your ergos a little , better suspension (it makes a huge difference), and that might be all you need.
I've tried to "upgrade" but the V11 is just cooler and better. It truly is the last of the hairy chested Guzzis.
Only if you've never ridden a properly tuned and mapped Griso.
For the OP, the problem with all of the later FI Guzzis is that their mapping is pretty pedestrian in stock trim, this goes for both 15M and W5AM models. The suspension on the Griso is also superior to the Marzocchi equipped V11's and the frame is far superior.
Pete
-
I owned a V11 Sport for a while and got used to the ergos enough that 300 mile days were O.K.
There are some on this board who vow that the Scura was some sort of untamed beast but I found the stock V11 motor to be less than advertised. According to Mike Rich the Cali motor and V11 had the same compression despite the claims in the brochure.
I think that the 1100 Griso has a better motor (twin plugs= more compression?) and has slightly better balance front to rear. Peg position is the same but the Griso bars are wiiide and a bit of a reach for some.
I have a custom seat (higher, flatter), and dropped pegs but kept the stock bar on my '07 1100 Griso. Very comfortable!
The 8V Griso is a whole other thing. Easily 20 HP more than the Sport on top and more power everywhere. I sold my '09 as the roller conversion was an expense I didn't want to shoulder. I will be looking for a '13 in the future. You could spend thousands modding the V11 Sport and still not get the smooth power of a stock 8V Griso with a proper map.
-
I think that the 1100 Griso has a better motor (twin plugs= more compression?)
doubt it..
-
9.5:1 Vs. 9.8:1
If you believe those lying dogs...
-
Different combustion chamber shapes and piston crowns with the V11 and Cali from memory. Cali has smaller valves too with similarly smaller porting.
Pete
-
:whip2:
I've done this Pepsi challenge. The V11 is just better. The issue is that they have to be sorted out . Once sorted they're just better than a sorted out Griso..
-
Really? As someone with a really well sorted Griso, I'd like to ride a well sorted V11. Just for grins.
-
I have a G11 and do longer rides than most on it. Six hours is about my limit. The biggest problem with the G11 is the lack of real wind protection. On my last long days ride it was the 80-85 mph runs in heavy SF Bay Area traffic during the 90 degree heat of the day, that really wore me out. With the Griso with it's "pushup" stance, from the wide bars, you catch a lot of air.
I do have a Dart Marlin screen which does help a little.
If you really want to go the distance you might have to "sit up and beg" behind a larger screen with a Stelvio or Norge.
-
One of the biggest problems I had with my Griso is the fuel range was terrible. At 125 miles you better hope a gas station isn't far off. As much as I loved the looks of the Griso its one bike I do not miss since selling.
Also I'd ditch riding with the "bagger" crew. I'd bet 90% of the time they spend with their feet up on the highway pegs cruising slab and if you were lucky enough to hit some twisty roads those huge battleships have to do them at 25 MPH or less.
-
My '09 got 40 MPG on the highway @75ish MPH the '07 maybe a little better. At 140 miles I saw the light...
Same mileage as my '75 Eldo with double the horsepower. Progress!
-
Yeah. Buy a California, if you have to ride with the HD crowd.
My V11 LeMans was good enough in stock configuration for thousand mile days with the only additions being an Air Hawk and Grip Puppies.
Don't go chasing down the ergos rabbit hole with the V11. Sure, some guys have done it and been happy, but most of them end up buying something else, like a Norge.
Griso is nice, but limited fuel range, and will feel like a harnessed race horse cruising with your HD friends.
-
Go to a gym and build up your core strength. :evil: :smiley: Worked for me. I thought I was in pretty good shape for an old fart.. the personal trainer thought otherwise. That'll take the weight off your wrists. That said, I have adjustable clipons that give about a 2 inch rise on the grips. I've done *many* all day rides on a V11 since.
Not knocking the Grease O, it's a hoot, too.
-
I think form the varied responses, you'll just have to see for yourself. Personally I find a seating position that pulls me slightly forward to be a requirement for all day rides, a full straight up sit up and beg position makes me uncomfortable in 200 miles or so. I've been on varied V11S models, all felt like they'd be good for the day.
-
I'll just ask a different question? Does the original question need to have an "or" in it? How about keep the V11 AND get a Griso? Just thinking that once you start with mods, especially if you start buying spendy aftermarket parts like footpeg relocating brackets, you're going to spend some percentage of the price of a used Griso.
To the V11 part of the question, I can ride mine all day, my longest day was about 550 miles of every twisty road I could connect between San Diego and San Jose. I'm not too fond of the V11 in a long, straight line (which is where many Harleys excel).
When I ride with my Harley buddy, I end up going ahead, then waiting roadside. It's like The Tortoise and the Hare story - except the Hare (Guzzi) always wins. I get to take pictures of Harley drive-bys, and he gets to observe Guzzi fly-bys.
Having two V11 myself, I was thinking about modding my LeMans for more emphasis on touring. I was looking at maybe $2,000 for bags, mounts, rear rack, laminar lip, and a few other bits. I ended up buying my (somewhat neglected) BMW K75s for less than that - with the nice BMW hard cases included. The little brick is a lovely straight line bike, smooth as silk, the bags work well, and it's not too shabby in the twisty sections (new shock helped, and new fork springs will also help).
-
I installed a set of risers for my clip ons which made a tremendous difference in comfort. (MPH has a much better design.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/twhitaker/Pic-2_zps269bn8st.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/twhitaker/media/Pic-2_zps269bn8st.jpg.html)
-
To the V11 part of the question, I can ride mine all day, my longest day was about 550 miles of every twisty road I could connect between San Diego and San Jose. I'm not too fond of the V11 in a long, straight line (which is where many Harleys excel).
Second that - I find my V11 to be much less fatiguing (and way more fun) on twisty roads due to frequent movements. Running a long straight drone on the interstate doesn't suit a V11 well in my opinion.
-
Well dl, This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it :evil:. The whole ergo thing is really about a lot of different points. If you change the bars. what does that change on your leg position? Sit up straighter and what effect on your torso and core muscles? I doubt one change would be a magic cure but without trying you'll never know. Core strengthening is a great start, and progress from there. E bay is your friend for used(cheap) riser parts, footpegs etc.. if you don't posses the skills to fab up parts yourself just to try out. It took me about 4 months of tinkering to get my 6'1'' frame as comfortable as I am on my K75s. Every change I made can be reversed in about 2 hours to back to stock. It can be done. Good Luck!!
Paul B. :boozing: :popcorn:
-
For comfort, you will never get a Griso or vII to be comfortable for long touring. Yes I know, people use them for that all the time, and some folks say that they are more comfortable on v11/Grisos than more sensible bikes, but they are outliers.
I agree with R59, if you're running with HD ridders, get a Cali. California's are great bikes, and beat up HDs all across the globe!
-
Thanks all lots of great info. Chuck what bar risers did you buy????
I wish I could get both but have too many bikes already and I really like riding vintage but need to keep one modern bike in the stable.
I'm already super fit but 6 feet tall with some arthritis issue from past car wrecks. Is seems the multi day riding really sets it off. Probably the :boozing:
My Harley buddies don't care about the culture of Harley they just like the bikes and they are comfy just turn me off for some reason....probably the costs. Truly I give them a harder time about their bikes than they do me. They wear bright colored textile jackets and helmets from our dual sport days gone by and they really aren't doing their leather pirate culture justice.
Thanks again and keep the input coming...I really think about your wisdoms
-
Oh, I would add that all the comments about getting the bike sorted are spot on.
It was a long and frustrating process to get the V11 tuned and mapped properly from the previous owner or shop that tuned it.
It was tuned way out of whack as a work around for bad TPS settings and trim settings that took me a long time to realize.
Now it absolutely sings!
-
I find my Sport pretty comfy except for the the pegs. My legs get a little cramped and I like to stretch after 100 miles. Some of the guys have gotten Buell footpegs that give another inch of legroom and apparently work OK with the pedals.
I fight the seat fine and the bars acceptable (although mine has a handlebar conversion that is tad wide- I am considering going back to the clip ons or cutting down the handlebars).
Based on your post, you don't seem specific about what is most discomforting.
-
Thanks all lots of great info. Chuck what bar risers did you buy????
They were on it when I picked it up. I'm guessing they are the adjustable ones M.I. used to sell, maybe MPH. Rosie had a set of home made ones (non adjustable) that were a similar rise. It takes that last couple of inches of the "dedicated sport bike" riding position away.
-
My '09 got 40 MPG on the highway @75ish MPH the '07 maybe a little better. At 140 miles I saw the light...
Same mileage as my '75 Eldo with double the horsepower. Progress!
My 07 Griso never got anything over 35 MPG my Eldo routinely gets over 50 MPG.
-
Good question....so my wrists and the spot between the shoulder blades and the neck meet tend to go at about the same time. Probably cant do anything physically about that so maybe a slight bar rise would be the ticket.
My butt gets sore from the sliding forward, wedgy thing on speeds less that 75. I run a sheepskin which helps the heat but not the wedgy thing. I can deal with the seat probably.
I already have the laminar lip, bags etc so I would be nice to not have to start over there.
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt42/allendamon/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_174911.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/allendamon/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_174911.jpg.html)
-
If the Griso fits you like a glove, then perhaps your future bike has found you. See if you can't borrow one for a couple of days to see how it works out for touring. 3,000 miles is enough to know that you are not going to be comfortable the way the V11 is set up now. You may be able to adjust the ergos of the V11 to suit you - minute adjustments to the position of the bars & footpegs can make a big difference. I thought the stock V7C was comfortable until I bought the 1100 Sport in NZ & found it to be the most comfortable long distance tourer I've had, "Fits like a glove". So, I've changed the V7's bars & footpegs to emulate that riding position somewhat, & after careful adjustment & lots of trial & error, I can now ride the V7 day in & day out without discomfort. Good, but still not as comfortable as the 1100 Sport. So, fitting like a glove is a great starting position.
Mal
-
Good question....so my wrists and the spot between the shoulder blades and the neck meet tend to go at about the same time. Probably cant do anything physically about that so maybe a slight bar rise would be the ticket.
Maybe your core strength isn't what you think it is? That was my problem exactly. It was me, not the bike. <shrug>
-
My 07 Griso never got anything over 35 MPG my Eldo routinely gets over 50 MPG.
When I ride with Blackcat he gets from 7 - 10 MPG better whether he is on the Norge or the 1000s. My aerodynamic profile needs whittling.
-
My 07 Griso never got anything over 35 MPG my Eldo routinely gets over 50 MPG.
My Griso 1100 gets 42 to 45 for the last 12,000 miles (last year) about 10,000 of those are commuting on city streets.
-
I had a real "garage shootout" when I had the Scura and Griso 8V both in the garage.
FWIW I kept the Scura and moved the Griso.
M
-
This is what I have on my V11 ( I even think this is my bike ) on Harpers website. Lifts me up enough to balance out the pressure on my wrists.
http://www.harpermoto.com/lsl-handlebar-conversion-for-v11-sport.html
-
Yeah. Buy a California, if you have to ride with the HD crowd.
My V11 LeMans was good enough in stock configuration for thousand mile days with the only additions being an Air Hawk and Grip Puppies.
Don't go chasing down the ergos rabbit hole with the V11. Sure, some guys have done it and been happy, but most of them end up buying something else, like a Norge.
Griso is nice, but limited fuel range, and will feel like a harnessed race horse cruising with your HD friends.
Rocker is pretty much on target
- Cali 1400 will easily run with the bagger crowd and will leave them in the dust through the twistys.
- Have a V11 - nice bike, but will be gone before the Griso.
- I can do 150 miles between stops on my G11 so range isn't a issue for my riding. If your bagger buddies are cruising along at the typical 65 mph you'll be pretty bored on the Griso, but then again you'll be pretty bored on a Cali 1400 too. Both come into their own north of 70 mph.
-
I have to put some weight in Chucks corner. Not that I have done much if anything yet about it, but I know for a fact that his claims of building core strength can greatly enhance once life, as noted by his ability to ride comfortably, where he couldn't prior.
You go you Super Chuck! :thumb:
-
That neck pain part is partly just muscle work. You are holding your head up at a different angle than 'normal'. Combining the weight of the helmet and the angle makes the muscles complain. Two ways to fix. One, change ergos, more upright. Or, training. The training thing works better for me.
The 'training'? Instead of sitting at home reclined, lean forward, putting your forearms on your knees. You end up with about the same angle you have on the bike. Every time you sit down to watch TV or run the computer assume that position. Yep, it does work. I can go almost all day now without the severe pain in the neck/shoulder.
Wrists. That is part of the core strength part Chuck talked about. Don't hold yourself up with the hands on the bars. Just rest your hands on the bars and hold your position with your core muscles, back and abs. Yes, they will complain at first too. :)
-
Take aspirin before a long ride. Don't slouch. Slide your butt to the bum stop. Stop every 45" to an hour. Just stand up and stretch while you have the bike in neutral. You'll increase your range. If that's what you want and you won't hurt as much. 1/3 wt. on the seat, 1/3 wt. on pegs and 1/3 wt. on the bars.
-
I went with a Griso (thought wrongly that my long legs would not fit the Scura - needed to move my bum all the way back....sigh). Had to lower the pegs, use Rox bar risers, Russell Day Long seat and a MRA fairing. After 600ish miles my shoulders are a bit sore and tired.
Perhaps I need a Norge. But as she sits, she can be ridden for lot's of miles.
-
Great Thread, lots of interesting input. I owned an 02' V11S for ten years but also had both a G5 and Cali III to use for long distance. Like the OP I loved it and just could not bring myself to modify it. Also like the OP found it to be a comfortable for only about 400 miles a day out here in the land of the square tire, Nebraska. Over the years I would at times trailer it up to the Black Hills where it truly shined and had some great times on it. The G5 and Cali finally reached the point that it was time to spend some real money on them due to high miles so they whet to owners who were willing to do so. That left me with the V11S. I still couldn't bring myself to mod it up for longer rides and I am not sure as some here have said that it would have been possible to get it there anyway. I am pushing 70 and had two bad bike/car encounters in my younger wilder days that have left me with pins and wires in a few places. Add arthritis to the mix and the V11 had to go. I replaced it with a Stelvio and for me that has worked out very well. Not everyone's cup of tea but it makes a fast, fun and very capable long range road bike. The only down side is that from time to time I really miss the old green rocket.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/IMGA0009.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GuzziRider/media/IMGA0009.jpg.html)
-
V11!
I've had a Scura & Ballabio at the same time and still felt the need to move around the bike when punting through the twisties. The high bars made a difference but with either bike if I didn't move around I'd end up with a sore arse & thats half the fun anyway...