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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MGPilot on January 20, 2016, 11:03:54 PM
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Took a look at a 2015 Norge last week. Very nice, but it's heavy enough and the weight is high enough, I can see it getting away from me trying to push it around the garage.
So at the moment, a smaller, lighter sport tourer seems better for me.
Anyone have experience with BMW'S F800GT? Thoughts?
Thanks.
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I considered it when I decided to replace my Ducati ST2 with another sport tourer. It looks great, is light weight, gets great fuel economy--but I kept wanting the R1200RT more. And every time I thought about the RT, I thought about the Norge...
Yes, the Norge is heavy and a bit of a handful when trying to man handle it, but that weight lends great comfort and stability at speed.
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I rode the F800GS and was very impressed with the bike. Loads of useful power and it was returning 60mpg (imperial) at 90mph.
Not sure I would want to own a F800 model but for a lightweight tourer they ain't bad.
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Saw a new one on sale at Touring Sport in Greenville SC Beautiful. Riding position seems pretty upright from sitting on it.
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ZZZZZZZZZ :evil: :smiley:
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I have a Norge, an '09 with 50K miles, and a BMW F800GT, a '14 with 14K miles. Though both are ST bikes, I tend to use them for different purposes.
The F bike is much lighter; it handles better than any bike I have ever owned; has outstanding brakes too. I prefer it over the Norge for relatively short rides, especially on local twisty roads. However, I have modified the bike for touring: Givi trunk, BMW side cases, Givi touring screen with X-screen foil, throttlemeister. I have taken the bike on a few multi-day trips, including on a three-week ride in the Rockies. The bike is a fairly capable tourer, but it has one flaw that can be bothersome to me: the motor is plenty strong, but gets a bit buzzy at 75 mph in top gear. Many owners of this model say they don't notice this issue, but just as many do.
For long rides that include significant freeway droning, I prefer the Norge. It is slightly more comfortable for me, and, though there are some vibes at interstate speed, they are more soothing than annoying. The Norge is also no slouch on the twisties, just not quite as flickable as the F bike. Though the F bike is OK for 2-up duty, the more spacious Norge works better for this.
Reliability: I have had zero issues so far with the BMW, and though the Norge has never stranded me, I have had many problems with it, including some that were quite costly to fix.
Though the Norge has had its issues, it has become my favorite bike of all time; you know, that "character" thing. I feel no attachment to the BMW, yet, anyway. If there was a more extensive dealership network, and if the bikes were put together with a bit more care, and if Piaggio was as willing as BMW to honor their warranties, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another new Norge. On the other hand, I would not likely consider buying another F bike; but who knows, maybe in time I will appreciate it more.
Jon
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I feel no attachment to the BMW,
<shrug>
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The 800GT may be worth you giving it a test ride. A good friend, and Guzzi enthusiast, rode a GT with me last year in the Alps.
The riding position and the lack of wind protection seemed to be an issue with him. The engine is also going to be a bit more revvy and buzzy than a larger twin.
I had one of the first 800's BMW made, an F800S. I loved the bike, the way it ran and the way it looked. It would flat-out haul butt. The big problem was the terrible reliability of the early models. They were beset with many problems, engine issues and rear belt drive issues.
Now, a decade later, BMW seems to have finally solved these issues. I hear no major complaints about the more recent BMW F800GT models but I am somewhat out of that loop now.
I highly suggest that you go putter around the main website for these bikes and see what other owners say.
http://f800riders.org/
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about 10 years ago I looked at the 'new then' 800 BMW. I wanted a mid sized bike that could do two up, was fun to ride, and inspired me. It just didn't inspire me. Instead, I bought another rather uninspiring bike that was a great handling, reliable, relatively comfortable bike... a suzuki vstrom 650. It wasn't long before I sold it and bought a used Vespa - which was certainly limited but DID inspire me... maybe its the limitations that add character? Anyway, if I had the choice of a Norge and the BMW it would be Norge all the way. I currently ride a V7... which has its limitations... but a second bike would definitely be a Norge.
Norge :1:
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Try the new Tiger 800 XRx. Wow
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I have no experience with the BMW but my triumph tiger 800R is similar in size and performance and I like it
I rented one in Vegas and rode it to the grand canyon and across death valley a couple of times
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Somewhat related - I've put almost 100,000 km on an F800GS, which has essentially the same engine. It's still my go-to bike for long-distance rides, despite also having an R1150RT beside it in the garage. I've ridden the GT on various occasions, almost bought one. But I decided that the engine characteristics were too similar to the GS to be worth it to me at the time (I was looking for a replacement for the RT). In the absence of the GS, I would likely have traded the RT for one. The GS has a more upright riding position and is more capable on less than ideal surfaces, but the GT is very nice. Lots of nice little touches like angled valve stems, virtually invisible luggage mounts, etc, etc. Bullet-proof engine that has more than enough grunt for me, capable of 200 km/h. Not that I would ever ride at such speeds :evil:
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I have lots of BMW experience, but not with the 700/800 series personally. Like others have said, the later years are better since the bugs were worked out.
However, While overall weight is one concern and one part of a decision process, I would not base a motorcycle purchase or eliminate a model solely on the concern of being too heavy for my garage . Buy what's right for the road, and for what you want to do with it.
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However, While overall weight is one concern and one part of a decision process, I would not base a motorcycle purchase or eliminate a model solely on the concern of being too heavy for my garage . Buy what's right for the road, and for what you want to do with it.
On the other hand, I totally get this.
Since I've lost a bit of weight I find my 1200 Sport to be difficult to move around, and out of, my garage space. I came close to selling it last year for just this reason.
My space is a bit strange and getting the bike out of it put me on the edge of control and I always felt like I was going to let it fall.
I have managed to mitigate my specific issues a bit with my space (motorcycle turntable was a godsend for me) and so the 1200 Sport is still with me.
But I've also bought a lighter bike which also solves all of the weight problems I had with my 1200 although it doesn't do as much for me emotionally. I'm glad I was able to work things out and keep my Guzzi.
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I rode the F800ST a few years ago. Very sporty sitting position. Great engine and slick tranny. Suspension was nice too. But, the engine buzz was horrible. My entire forearm went to sleep in about 10min on the freeway.
I think I rode one that was not assembled correctly too. When the fan kicked on (this was 90deg day in June) the hot air was blowing right up between my legs. I was glad to get off of it.
Some say the GT is better at both, but, I'd make sure to take one on a longish test ride before buying.
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I own a 2007 BMW F800ST, and have rented for a tour of the Alps the GT. I could not tell much of a difference between them other then some electronic rear damping adjustments that I stopped playing with in the first 100 miles. The ST is a vastly under rated machine. Wide torque band, pulls nicely from 3k-8k, handles and brakes nimbly, sips gas, easily comfortable for 500 plus mile days, and one sweet bullet proof engine. The boxer folks hated it, and non BMW folks never crossed shopped it or bought the GS models which sells well. It is not uncommon to find a nicely cared for low mile used example well under 4k! Some folks complain it is boring, code word for exhaust and engine that sound like a sewing machine, bug plagued there are well known issues that have been sorted, or not really a BMW. I keep my eyes open and scanning for an alternative but you will not find a better light long distance sports touring machine, that is this much fun bags off or on. The Triumph Tiger 800 might be in that league but it really competes with the GS, besides the belt drive just makes so much sense. Rent one if you can, I think you will find it hard to return.
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I haven't riden the GT, but have had the F700/800 GS models as loaners on several occasions. Yes, they have adequate power for any real world riding, but while they are torquey for their size, they lack the low-end punch of the boxers or the MG 1200s. As a result, they have to be revved more, and when they are, they get buzzy. That's their chief drawback --
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Hi Charlie, I know you have posted about the buzz and vibration on other posts about the F800. You are partially correct. At 5k there is a vibration not numbing, but there is no reason to hold the bike at the rev. It will do 90 mph in 6th at 4600 all day and very smooth. I tend to ride closer to the speed limit in the 4200 area. With regards to the heat on the left leg once the fan kicks in, a known issue you can feel in stop and go. Not an issue for me do to where and how I ride, but some foam pipe insulation in the left vent cures that issue without causing any noticeable engine heating. I have never felt the heat was uncomfortable in riding gear so I never did the modification, however in jeans no gear it would be annoying.
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A few more details.
I'm in my 60's. My 2-car garage includes some woodworking equipment, my 2016 Stone and my supercharged Audi. The only time my previous 2005 R1200RT went down, was in the garage (and the BMW forums show that I'm not alone in this). The Norge felt like it had more weight, higher than the RT. Given the other inhabitants of my garage, and me....I will not make apologies for making sure that whatever I get is reasonable (for me) to manage.
Over time my orientation has changed from get the biggest - fastest to get the most engaging and what will fit the typical mission and just adequately handle the extremes. It is unlikely that I will be doing multi-day rides. If it turns out that a Norge/RT is what it takes to have a more stable bike on the freeway, then that's ok.
I'm telling myself that I'd like something that is a bit more suited for the highway as a contrast to the Stone. Started with the Norge as my Stone has been much more engaging than either of my previous BMW's. Will head over to take a look at the F800GT. Seems like many riders have lowered the pegs and replaced the windscreen with larger ones. But not sure I want to spend money on something that has no more engagement that a kitchen mixer. Will see.
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If you want light, engaging, and not an appliance, go find an Aprilia Futura. Wow that will set your soul on fire. Bike was way ahead of its time. You can ride it like a man in search of the fountain of youth, let me know when you get there or settle in and let it cruise all day. What a machine. Others suggested Ducatti ST series, another beast but a bit more wrenching then my skill level.
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I borrowed a GS from the local dealer at a Dual Sport event, I was blown away by its handling the rough stuff something I had never really done before.
The GT has a horrible looking belt drive IMHO.
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But not sure I want to spend money on something that has no more engagement that a kitchen mixer.
<shrug>
:popcorn:
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If the $$ can be arranged, look at the MV Augusta Lusso or one step down. Light, powerful and bet its engaging.
Dealers are sparse but then once you start talking about MG, Aprilia or the other low market share brands, what difference does it make? Something happens on the road its forum help or a trailer.
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Will also take a look at the Aprilia Camponord.
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I had 3 problems with my 800ST:
1) buzziness caused nerve issues in my right hand, mainly on multi-hour rides. Sufficiently solved by use of a throttle assist, but still an annoyance.
2) lightweight and fully-faired, it gets blown around by the wind. Some people would find this a significant negative on a tourer.
3) No character. Didn't bother me while touring on it, since I was sufficiently absorbed by my adventures not to focus on the bike. But I found the ST unfullfiling for short pleasure rides. I'd come home thinking "why bother . . .." By contrast, my V7 was a hoot to take around the block.
Aside from those issues, I'd highly recommend it. Arguably it has no equal as a modern, efficient lightweight tourer.
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I didn't mention the buzziness riders have told me about because I thought that issue had been mostly resolved but reading these accounts, maybe it hasn't been?
And I agree that these 700/800 models lack the soul of the BMW boxers and even the K series.
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Try the new Tiger 800 XRx. Wow
YES!! :thumb: :thumb:
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3) No character. Didn't bother me while touring on it, since I was sufficiently absorbed by my adventures not to focus on the bike. But I found the ST unfullfiling for short pleasure rides. I'd come home thinking "why bother . . .." By contrast, my V7 was a hoot to take around the block.
I rest my case. :smiley:
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The F800GT is a very nice bike, a little boring. I looked closely at one last July.
But for the same/less money you can get a gently used K1300GT with skull-melting acceleration, capacity for a weekend trip, all the various high-tech safety and comfort gizmos, and a pretty good aftermarket. At least, that's what I did. Too bad BMW decided to turn its K touring bikes into mammoth Goldwings, and leave a vacuum in the big-sport-tourer line.
I find that K13GT owners are like Colt Python owners: they take care of their babies because there will never be another like it.
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no experience of my own because I did 2 Edelweiss extreme tours and there were lots of them on each tour. 100% were questioned by me after seeing ALL OF THEM shaking their hands. too much vibration was always the answer.
in addition to that you get to pay BMW pricing and get a non German mfg. bike.
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I've put 8,000 miles on my F800GT. I love the bike. Great handling, light weight, great power. I don't find the buzziness the other posters mention. Pretty smooth to me. Has great power but the way it's tuned makes it very rideable. Smooth and docile up to 6k rpm then you feel it "come on the cam" and pull like hell up to red line.
The GT is a lot more sport than touring. Slight "lean forward" riding position but not bad. Longest I've ridden was 4 hours from barbers to home without much discomfort. The seat doesn't work well for me and mine has the comfort seat option. I started a seat thread on the F800GT forum and some found the standard seat fine, some liked the comfort seat and some didn't', some found the sargents and Corbin's good and some didn't.
Weather protection is not great but I've ridden it in some pretty serious rain an it was tolerable.
I generally use my NT700V for longer trips.
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I've had my 2013 F800GT since August. I've put about 4,000 miles on it. While lacking the engine "character" of a V-twin, it has nice linear torque from about 3,000 RPM to just over 8,000 RPM. The weather protection is good, but, for cold weather, I made it even better with the addition of Barkbuster Blizzard hand guards, and a Madstad windshield, which was included with the bike (in a box).
The stock seat sucks. The Sargent seat that is now on it is a great all day seat.
I loved my VFR800, but, hate chain maintenance. I wanted something lighter than my Breva 1100. I replaced both bikes with the F800GT. The forward lean is somewhere between the two. The belt drive is quite and maintenance free (well, almost; I'll replace the belt when it gets to 40k or so). It is a little quicker than the Breva, similar to the VFR800, thought the VFR800 had more top end, which I hardly ever used.
Brakes and chassis are great. The ESA works well, though, I find the handling in comfort mode to be plenty good for 95% of of the riding that I do.
I don't have any complaints with vibration in the handlebars, it is on par with the Breva, though a little higher frequency. It is quite mild through.
The factory heated grips work great, especially with the hand guards.
Sure the engine doesn't have the character of a Guzzi or Ducati, or even an Airhead, but, overall it is a very pleasant bike to ride.
The BMW touring cases are nice, though just a hair too small to fit my Size-L modular Shoei in. That helmet fits the bags on the 1992 R100R I have just fine. I do like that the bags have a bottom "shelf" that exends the full width of the cases so your stuff doesn't fall into the lid when you open them. Having bags that are key matched to the bike is nice (yeah, I know BMW isn't the only one that does that, but, it is my first).
I've been getting 55-58 MPG in warm weather, and 46-48 MPG in cold weather, which, I think is pretty darned good for a 90 HP, 470 lb bike.
IMHO, it is a great sport tourer and commuter, as well has a capable and fun sport bike for, well, "mature (read:older)" riders who want sporty, but, not a committed sport bike riding position.
My advice, ride 'em both, and buy what calls to you.
One definite area where the F800GT is better than the Breva 1100 (aside from being lighter weight and better fuel economy), is it has MUCH better low speed manners in stop and go traffic. The Breva 1100's first gear was a little tall, and gentle launches into a slow speed crawl were a bit rough. The F800GT is happy to craw along at 2,000 RPM, or even less when I get in traffic. This wasn't a big problem with the Breva, as usually avoid such traffic situations, but, when encountering such conditions found it to be a little frustrating.
Also, the Breva, and the Norge (which is basically the same bike with more plastic) is a bit top heavy in comparison, so, in moving it around the garage, or, recovering from a near drop when you drop your foot in a hole at a stop it feels MUCH heavier.
One final note, is that I've read some complaints about heat on the left leg in hot weather (F800GT). I haven't found it to be an issue, and have ridden it on mid 90's humid days. I found the Breva bake my shins and knees any time the temps were above 80. The Norge's aerodynamics might be different though.
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I've put 8,000 miles on my F800GT. I love the bike. Great handling, light weight, great power. I don't find the buzziness the other posters mention. Pretty smooth to me. Has great power but the way it's tuned makes it very rideable. Smooth and docile up to 6k rpm then you feel it "come on the cam" and pull like hell up to red line.
The GT is a lot more sport than touring. Slight "lean forward" riding position but not bad. Longest I've ridden was 4 hours from barbers to home without much discomfort. The seat doesn't work well for me and mine has the comfort seat option. I started a seat thread on the F800GT forum and some found the standard seat fine, some liked the comfort seat and some didn't', some found the sargents and Corbin's good and some didn't.
Weather protection is not great but I've ridden it in some pretty serious rain an it was tolerable.
I generally use my NT700V for longer trips.
Are you on the NT forum too?
I had considered the GT to replace my NT, but, upgraded the T5 instead.
PS "Buzzy" is relative to the rider. I was one to complain about the bar buzz on the Honda NT700 (I've had arm/hand circulation issues since playing baseball in my youth), while others didn't notice it. So, if you want to make sure, ride the bike before you buy it. If it doesn't bother you after 20 min at highway speed it probably never will.
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ZZZZZZZZZ :evil: :smiley:
:1:
Buzzy engine too
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Saw a new one on sale at Touring Sport in Greenville SC Beautiful. Riding position seems pretty upright from sitting on it.
I have a friend who bought an F800GT just last week from Frontline BMW in Roanoke, VA. He did a lot of research, and loves the thing so far, although the weather hasn't allowed for much riding yet. He also has a clean VFR800 for sale.
On a similar note, another friend in Southern VA has an F800ST in exceptional shape, with all the goodies including the BMW expandable bags, for sale in the $5Kish range. She recently bought a new Yamaha FJ-09 triple, and the BMW is parked.
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MGPILOT, I recommend you not discount the BMW , go ride one, a current year model just like you'd buy.
Vibration that bothers one person isn't bothersome to another. What vibrates on a 2014 model might not on the 2016.
Have some fun, test ride everything you can. Then you'll know for yourself.
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Vibrations ......... it often varies from bike to bike, and is sometimes curable, or at a minimum, reduced. Original BMW 4 cylinder K Bike "Flying Bricks" (K100 Series) were buzzy right around 55-60mph, which was really obnoxious, especially since our National Speed Limit at the time was 55mph. I picked up my first BMW (1985 K100RS) in March of 1986. I had traded my Virago 750 that got me back into biking. Left the dealership on my lovely silver sport tourer, and after a 50 mile ride home, I was on the phone to the dealer, asking if something was wrong. "They all do that. But there is a fix on the way."
Well, the fix was extensive warranty replacement of foot pegs and foot peg mounting castings. Some improvement.
Another fix involved loosening motor mount bolts and observing if the frame was under tension (did it spring away from the engine?) If so, the solution was to install shim(s) between the frame and engine to eliminate the frame tension. Of additional help.
The vibe problem was virtually eliminated on the last of the bricks with a complete frame redesign, which resulted in a cast cradle frame permitting rubber mounting the engine. My 1999 K1200RS was extremely vibe-free. Note - none of the 4 cylinder '"bricks" had balance shafts. OTOH, the smaller K75 triple did (one shaft with weights which rotated opposite the direction of crank rotation,) and was nearly turbine smooth, except when getting its neck wrung at rather high rpms.
I've also experienced vibes with retro vertical twins (W650 and 790cc Triumph T100.) The W used a single balance shaft, the Triumph used dual shafts, so most of the vibes had been eliminated via the basic design. Any vibration was usually caused if I had removed and reinstalled the mufflers. Here's what I found. Don't reinstall the exhaust system and draw the bolts up to correct torque. Tighten muffler clamps and other fasteners only tight enough to hold things together. Ride the bikes up and down the street through the rev range several times, return to garage and complete torqueing to spec. Running slightly loose for a few minutes appeared to let things find their home position, so they weren't running under tension.
Summary: Identical bikes may have different levels of vibes that can be attributed to a variety of causes. Basic design flaw, or careless installation of exhaust system parts.
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Here's a well-written and nicely-illustrated article by the late Kevin Ash that describes BMW's approach to reducing the vibes in their 800cc engines used in the F Series bikes.
http://www.ashonbikes.com/bmw_engine_balancer
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I had a Yamaha XS500, a parallel twin that was very smooth, rode it across the USA and back starting from the east coast, two up and fully loaded. It had counter balancers and rivaled the Honda 500 Four for very low vibes.
A wonderful machine.
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I had a Yamaha XS500, a parallel twin that was very smooth, rode it across the USA and back starting from the east coast, two up and fully loaded. It had counter balancers and rivaled the Honda 500 Four for very low vibes.
A wonderful machine.
Me, too. The only problem I had with it was a top end oil leak. "They all do that, sir.." :smiley:
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I am particularly fond of the "They All Do That" response to something that was never mentioned pre-sale.
Hm.
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Today seems a little drier in the PNW. Recently, while the East Coast has been so blessed with snow, it's been raining here like a cow peeing on a flat rock. Some areas nearby getting over 3" in the last 24h.
But....today dawns with blue in the skies. Will see if I'm able to get by Moto International and see/drive an Aprilia Caponord, then over to BMW Seattle to see/drive an F800GT & a recent R1200RT for reference.
Life may have other ideas of how I'll spend the day.....
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Today seems a little drier in the PNW. Recently, while the East Coast has been so blessed with snow, it's been raining here like a cow peeing on a flat rock. Some areas nearby getting over 3" in the last 24h.
But....today dawns with blue in the skies. Will see if I'm able to get by Moto International and see/drive an Aprilia Caponord, then over to BMW Seattle to see/drive an F800GT & a recent R1200RT for reference.
Life may have other ideas of how I'll spend the day.....
Greetings from the Starbucks just north of MI. My Norge is there for its first service. Holy cow, Dave has some GREAT deals on bikes, like a new 2015 (not 2014) Norge for $9,990 or a 2015 Caponord for $9,999!
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get a Guzzi or Fccck off to the BMW Forum. :evil:
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get a Guzzi or Fccck off to the BMW Forum. :evil:
Really? Do you realize how many members here also have BMWs (and Harleys, and Hondas, and .....)?
Gee all the talk about how non-BMW riders get snubbed at BMW rallies, and this is how we act here?
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get a Guzzi or Fccck off to the BMW Forum. :evil:
Really? Do you realize how many members here also have BMWs (and Harleys, and Hondas, and .....)?
Gee all the talk about how non-BMW riders get snubbed at BMW rallies, and this is how we act here?
In fact most of us don't think like that Jason , all are welcome here .
Dusty
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... and this is how we act here?
Meh. He just doesn't know to leave the room when he passes gas.
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So...nice day today. 15mph crosswind. Not strong, but noticeable. Would be a decent day to try new bikes.
Thought I should take the V7-II out for a ride first so I'd have a fresh comparison. (Big mistake.) Rode it around the island for a little and then headed out toward the Cascade mountains on I-90. 65mph near town, 70-75 as you start climbing into the mountains. Didn't go all that far. Reports of closures and avalanches farther up the road. Stayed in the relative warmth and sunshine of the lower altitudes.
That bike puts such a stupid grin on my face. Don't know what it is.
Anyway, I tried to unsettle the bike--and couldn't. There was no shaking of the handle bars like before in crosswinds or truck turbulence. It rode great. Yep, I had to adjust for crosswinds, trucks, etc. But the bike was much more settled than it had been.
Remembered that while I was messing with it recently, I slanted the aftermarket, off-season windshield as far back as it would go. Not a giant change, but it is less upright now. And come to think of it, this is the first chance I've had to ride the bike since that adjustment.
Although I'm not afraid to pony up the money for a second bike, getting one to solve a problem that doesn't exist any more seems....illogical. More data. Need more data. (As if I needed an excuse to go on more rides.)
So, will work in more rides as I can. But if the Stone continues to ride well, then the criteria for a second bike might be quite different.
Will see.
FWIW, had the first chance to use the Sena Bluetooth headset/communicator that my wife gave me for Christmas. Worked well with the phone, etc. Just so much capacity with so few controls....hard to keep it all straight. Noise in the Shoei was more noticeable. Didn't want to turn up the sound too much on the speakers. May be better to use earphones with it rather than headset speakers.
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Greetings from the Starbucks just north of MI. My Norge is there for its first service. Holy cow, Dave has some GREAT deals on bikes...
Hey Jeff. Sorry I missed you over there today.
He does. That's what's been partly setting a fire under me. If I think a new bike would be the right thing for me, this would be the right time to get one. (Stock market excluded...)
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If I think a new bike would be the right thing for me, this would be the right time to get one. (Stock market excluded...)
Oh, yeah ..... I'm tiring of being asked by the fund manager, ' Bob, exactly, what are your goals?' "Uhhh.... I dunno, maybe figure out how to recover 11-12% of my IRA capital, so I can blow it on a bike vs paying fund managers?" How's that for a goal?
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In fact most of us don't think like that Jason , all are welcome here .
Dusty
Who's Jason?
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Who's Jason?
Go back to sleep , you know I meant to say Jay :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Go back to sleep , you know I meant to say Jay :rolleyes:
Dusty
Any chance to give you grief.... Kinda like with Jay too. :evil:
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I've had a 2007 BMW F800S since I bought it new. Have a bit over 50,000 miles on this bike.
I really, really like it. My two bikes before the F800 were a Yamaha FJR and a BMW GS1200. Much preferred the F800 to either of those.
That being said, in my current stable the F800 is my least favorite. I like my 13 V7 Stone the best, and my little Ninja 250 takes second place. Currently, I almost always take the Stone or the two-fiddy. Often consider selling the F800S.
Upsides to the F800? The bike handles extremely well. Relatively light at 450 someodd pounds. Engine is torquey and deceptively quick. It is real world useful--torquey low down, but starts snarling and really pulling hard about 6,000--a fun combination of real world useability and a sporty feel if you want rev it.
It does sound like a sewing machine with stock pipes, but I've always had a carbon fiber Remus on it, and with that can I personally think it sounds great.
It routinely gets incredible gas mileage--you can thrash it and still get an honest 52 mpg (American). Ride it gently and you will get 55 mpg or better.
6 speed, slick transmission. Belt drive is smooth with no snatch. And I've had no issues with a belt driving over a lot of rocky, dirt type roads. The belt is very well shielded.
Looks are subjective, but I really like the oddball, praying mantis look of the thing.
The downsides? Yes, the engine is vibey. It does cause my hands to go numb after about 30 minutes of freeway cruising. I've got grip puppies and a throttle Meister, and can work around this, but it is an issue for me.
The single sided swing arm is bulbous on right side. I wear a size 11 boot. I constantly feel the swing arm working against my boot.
The ABS is terrible. It will deactivate the brakes over low speed urban bumps. I've sailed into numerous crosswalks. This ABS system has really soured me on ABS.
My clutch has always been grabby. When the bike gets super hot (50 miles on Texas freeway in summer) it is very difficult to shift out of first, or find neutral.
My belts only last 25,000 miles. The failure mode is abrupt--you can barely go another 30 to 50 miles because the teeth on belt keep stripping off. Replacement belts from BMW run almost $500, which is obscene. However, a new source of belts just appeared that run about $250. Still, a lot of money per mile just for final drive.
My alternator burned out at 25,000. Not well cooled. This is very typical--alternators only seem to last about 25 to 30K.
There is a recall on rear wheel bearing. Mine seems ok. But that's a pricey repair.
The early bikes had bad anti-theft antennas for key sensors. And bad batteries.
It seems to eat steering head bearings. I've had to replace the rear belt drive pulley bearings at 30,000 miles because belt would not track true to sprocket. Same for bulbs. I seem to be constantly replacing headlight and taillight bulbs--probably related to vibration.
Rear brake lever is wonky--pedal is way too low for effective daily use.
A combination of these and other issues resulted in me being stranded more times on the F800 than any bike I've ever owned. I think it's all sorted out now. But I still have trust issues.
Removing the cam cover to adjust valve lash is a royal PITA. And the gasket is notorious for leaking. I've got the "new and improved" gasket kit, but it still leaks a lot. On the other hand, having adjusted valve lash once, it has never moved since.
I like mine--warts and all. Certainly one of my favorite bikes ever. But like I said, I hardly use it anymore now that I have the Stone. If my F800 were to be totaled or stolen, I'd get something different.
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Any chance to give you grief.... Kinda like with Jay too. :evil:
Hey , that's what family is for :laugh:
Dusty
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MG Pilot.
Didn't see your most recent post. Yeah. Think hard about the "fun factor."
Like I tried to say, there are lots of things about the V7 Stone that just work. Put a smile on your face. I totally get that.
My F800S has a lot less of this ineffable "grin factor." On paper, the BMW F800 has the Guzzi Stone beat. And the F800 really is a very nice bike. I would have said my favorite, up until I became totally smitten by V7 Guzzi.
Go test ride an F800. Maybe it will click with you. But maybe you have already been smitten by recent edition small block Guzzi. That's what happened to me.
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Thanks for your experience with the F800. I still my ride over and try one. It may have enough or different character to make it worth buying.
But, if my issues with the bike are pretty well handled, this might open the option for a vintage bike of some kind.
You know, one that you'd keep a small role of baling wire in your pocket and could actually fix something with to get you back home.
Sometimes the hunt is as good or better than the capture.
(The divorce attorneys can stop laughing....)
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Thanks for your experience with the F800. I still my ride over and try one. It may have enough or different character to make it worth buying.
But, if my issues with the bike are pretty well handled, this might open the option for a vintage bike of some kind.
You know, one that you'd keep a small role of baling wire in your pocket and could actually fix something with to get you back home.
Sometimes the hunt is as good or better than the capture.
(The divorce attorneys can stop laughing....)
Have to ask ...... do you guys REALLY like the small block Guzzis? By 'you guys,' I mean you guys and gals who have put a bunch of miles on big block Guzzis, and then added or switched over to a small block? And I am not being cynical when I ask this question.
However, I recall riding a riding buddy's 2004 Breva 750 and not being in the least impressed with the bike. To me, it felt underpowered and geared way low, to make up for it. OTOH, perhaps I didn't spend enough time with this lightweight sport touring bike to appreciate what it had to offer. I do recall the owner had no problem leading the ride on several occasions, whether it was two lane or interstate.
I guess I owe it to myself to take a V7II out for a test ride. I'm not a high hp rider .... obviously, since I owned a 130hp BMW K bike, while at the same time a W650 and T100 occupied the garage. All three bikes got their fair share of riding time. And I loved them all!
But before I make any false moves, I do intend to demo a 2014 Honda CB1100, and with any luck, might be able to do the same with a new Triumph T120.
My heart is drawn to Guzzi, but I keep thinking that there is this chain drive Honda that might just do what I want, with little fanfare and little maintenance. Could possibly be a pipedream!
I know it appears I'm all over the board, but the bikes I'm considering are a very narrow segment of the bikes available.
Bob
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Can't compare it to the large displacement Guzzi's. But I sure like the V7-II a lot more for daily riding than I did my R1200RT. (The CBX was a different animal entirely.)
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Have to ask ...... do you guys REALLY like the small block Guzzis? By 'you guys,' I mean you guys and gals who have put a bunch of miles on big block Guzzis, and then added or switched over to a small block? And I am not being cynical when I ask this question.
I put around 35k on a Jackal and 15k on a Breva 1100 and now 10k on a V7 Stone.
The Jackal was great, but never pretty enough, and a very mechanically troublesome.
The B11 was also great in a lot of ways, but also not pretty enough and also had a couple of niggles. Specifically pinging and too much heat.
My V7 has been perfect by comparison.
Now let's be real.
The Jackal and Breva were both better 2-up mounts, but that's a non issue to me as I rarely do it and have other options.
The Breva was hands down a better highway mileage eater.
The Jackal wasn't really any faster, but the Breva certainly was.
But I don't care, the V7 is more fun. To that end it's more like the W650 or an Airhead.
That said, I wouldn't own another CARC unless it didn't have the troublesome dash, had a better looking and more functional tank (wasn't so hot), and had ergos more like the V7.
The power and suspension and ease of service (rear tire removal) were great on the B11, but I prefer what the V7 offers overall as a bike.
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Interesting comments re the small blocks, from some riders who ride! I'll have to try one, probably either a V7II or newer V9. My objection to the older small block Breva may have been due to the fact that I don't like bikes with much wind protection. I'm thinking that a small block retro might be the ticket. We'll see.
Bob
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Maybe off topic but I loved my last three Bonnies and the V7 I got this spring has become my favorite bike ever in 49 years of ownibg motorcycles.
Yes, I take my Norge on all the long trips and I'm fond of that machine but the V7 makes a stupid silly grin appear every time I'm on it.
I have several 300-450 mile days on the bike and I loved them.
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It's amazing how much love the little Goose gets here. But I believe I understand: I spent a little time on a V7 II loaner and I really enjoyed it. The more experience (maybe read "older") I get, the more I come to understand that the subjective aspect of the ride is what really counts. Performance numbers are seductive, but well, maybe not such good indicators of a ride you'll really want to live with. My recently departed Diavel is possibly a good example. It posted stupendous numbers by any standard, was surprisingly light and easy to maneuver in the garage/parking lots, etc., but it wasn't really a good daily rider. On the other hand, if you wanted to pull 400 yard fourth gear power wheelies, well you could do worse.
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Op was looking for feedback on the f800gt and got more responses abot big block vs small block MG's. the ST comparisons are relevant in regards to the engine and handling but they have a little more weather protection.
Forgot to mention the heat complaint in my first post: been a non issue for me and 95-100 degrees is normal here. Like the handlebar vibration it' very subjective
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Op was looking for feedback on the f800gt and got more responses abot big block vs small block MG's.
I count 17 posts that directly address the OP's question and 4 that address the tangent of SB VS. BB. :kiss:
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And this IS a Guzzi forum.... :wink:
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I count 17 posts that directly address the OP's question and 4 that address the tangent of SB VS. BB. :kiss:
Hell , at least we kept to motorcycles and haven't veered off into a discussion about sled dogs or the relative merits of Apple or MS operating systems :shocked:
Dusty
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Actually.....
Posting the question here was important.
I would be adding the F800GT to contrast to a V7-II -- so the views of the F800GT from Guzzi owners were exactly what I wanted.
For this, you guys are the experts in evaluating what it might bring to the party....or not.
(And you can always expect a bit of randomness in responses. BB vs. SB.)
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I own two classic styled smallblocks ('14 V7 Special, '13 V7 Racer/Record), and also a F800GT.
Each has their strengths.
I don't like exposing the pretty V7's to rain (or worse, the salt/brine crap that is on our roads in the winter), as I like to keep them looking good, and don't want corrosion on all the various exposed metal parts.
The F800GT is pretty much completely covered in plastic, so, I don't care about exposing it. I won't take it out when there is a lot of salt on the road, as that'll find its its way into the radiator and other critical parts and corrode them, but, I certainly don't worry about rain and road dirt.
For cold weather, the F800GT is absolutely my preferred ride, esp. since I have equipped it for such conditions with a taller windshield and hand guards (which will come back off in the spring, and the stock windshield will go back on).
The F800GT is also much quicker, better handling, and has better brakes. It or my Ducati Monster 796 are my choice rides for sport riding.
The V7's strengths are, of course, it's stunning good looks, and relaxed character. They are my choice for riding at a more relaxed (but, not slow) pace, when I want to enjoy the scenery, and just slow down a little. The 90 degree V-twin sounds a lot better, IMHO, than the 360 degree parallel twin does. That isn't all exhaust timing either, as I think airheads that have the same exhaust pulse rhythm of the 360 degree parallel twin, sound a lot better then the F800GT, just not as good as the Guzzi. I think that the water jacket of a water cooled engine mutes a lot of the mechanical sounds that we are used to with our air cooled engines.
F800GT is my main commuter when the temps are below 55. The V7 Special will be my main commuter when temps are 65 and above.
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...I have equipped it for such conditions with a taller windshield and hand guards (which will come back off in the spring, and the stock windshield will go back on).
Thanks for your input.
What windshield are you using for colder months?
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If you think water cooling muffles mechanical sounds from an engine you need to listen to a Triumph Trophy 1200 Four at idle. :laugh:
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Thanks for your input.
What windshield are you using for colder months?
Madstad, 21".
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1641/23963356074_c2faef7e47_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CvysTC)IMG_8400 (https://flic.kr/p/CvysTC) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1611/24483172782_3619f3e94c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DiuEhE)IMG_8412 (https://flic.kr/p/DiuEhE) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
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My F800GT is up for sale over on the swap meet:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94829.msg1500995#msg1500995 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94829.msg1500995#msg1500995)