Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jas67 on February 01, 2016, 05:18:48 AM
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Reply #170 of the V9 Thread over at ADVRider:
"Why doesn't Guzzi make a modern T3?"
-Because they'd sell 50.
"Why doesn't Guzzi design an entirely new engine, mount Ohlins front and rear, put it in the V7 and charge $6,000 for it?"(asked by every Guzzi rider who hasn't bought a new motorcycle in the last 40 years.)
-Because....don't be stupid.
"Why don't the V7 and V9 have radial sport bike tires?"
-Because the bikes have 40hp, they're retro/vintage standards and they wouldn't suit the bikes any more than spooning knobbies on them would.
"Why doesn't Guzzi listen to us? Why are they making a Sportster knock off instead of what WE want?"(again....asked by every Guzzi rider who hasn't bought a new motorcycle in the last 40 years.)
-1)You fuckers don't buy new Guzzis so go back to discussing your love of steel cut oats(a real, incredibly long thread on a Guzzi forum)
-2)Pick any major city in the US. Harley sells more Sportsters in that one city than Guzzi sells total bikes, worldwide. Getting just a fraction of a percentage of that market niche could easily double Guzzis sales.
-3)Guzzi is not a museum dedicated to the mastubatory delights of grizzled old fuckers WHO DO NOT BUY NEW BIKES. It's a business.
The V7 and V9 capitalize on the retro/vintage market urge without requiring large investment from Guzzi. It's an incremental market plan that makes sense for a firm that has teetered on the brink of collapse for 95 years. I'd have loved it if the V9 Bobber had 60-70 hp(like a 1200 Sportster). I understand why it doesn't though.
link to thread (login required): http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-moto-guzzi-v9.1105499/page-9#post-28571424 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-moto-guzzi-v9.1105499/page-9#post-28571424)
No offense, but, I have to admit, this guy is pretty spot on in his take on Guzzi owners/riders.
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LOL
Well I guess that leaves more oats for the rest of us.
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John in VT used to be a regular here.
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Log in NOT required.
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What can I say. I yam what I yam. :grin: That posting is funny but did hit kind of close to home.
GliderJohn
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John in VT used to be a regular here.
YUP, not an outsider.
But I can't argue with much of what he said there.
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Whilst I'm sure there exists a good market in Harley clones any brand with any credibility needs to preserve its own identity. For Guzzi that means always offering a at least one bike like the Griso
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"...-1)You f****** don't buy new Guzzis so go back to discussing your love of steel cut oats(a real, incredibly long thread on a Guzzi forum)"
Now wait just a minute! That crosses the line!!!!
You'd do well to try a hot bowl of steel-cut oats!
.
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"...-1)You f****** don't buy new Guzzis so go back to discussing your love of steel cut oats(a real, incredibly long thread on a Guzzi forum)"
Now wait just a minute! That crosses the line!!!!
You'd do well to try a hot bowl of steel-cut oats!
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Absolutely. He sounds like he might be a little bound up. :smiley: I'm sure that you've never bought a new Guzzi, anyway.
Oh, wait...
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He's got a lot of good points.
:thumb:
(Still think the V9 is F'ugly, cant even imagine Hog riders liking them.)
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Whilst I'm sure there exists a good market in Harley clones any brand with any credibility needs to preserve its own identity. For Guzzi that means always offering a at least one bike like the Griso
Shit ..... that kinda made me feel good :laugh:.......... I'm gonna go with Pikipiki on this one.
Ciao
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Actually read the whole thread and there are several good points in there. I think John started to get wound up on the whole "why doesn't Guzzi build the MGS-01 instead" comment earlier in the thread.
I've been pondering another bike for a while now so I guess I am "the problem." I did try to go to the dealer and buy one but it's hard to do when you know that there are excellent, low miles bikes out there that can be had for half price. And that's half of the discounted price on holdover bikes; the dealer near me has one '13 and two '14 Norge still sitting in his shop. I guess we've just been conditioned to eat steal cut oats and bottom feed Guzzi bikes!
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I've been pondering another bike for a while now so I guess I am "the problem." I did try to go to the dealer and buy one but it's hard to do when you know that there are excellent, low miles bikes out there that can be had for half price. And that's half of the discounted price on holdover bikes; the dealer near me has one '13 and two '14 Norge still sitting in his shop. I guess we've just been conditioned to eat steal cut oats and bottom feed Guzzi bikes!
I have to confess, I'm part of the problem, with my latest purchase, my $5,200 976 mile 2014 V7 Special, but, I was really helping, buy taking it off the market, thus preventing someone else from buying it instead of a new one. Yeah, that's the ticket :thumb:
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I have only purchased two new Guzzi's, an 07 Norge, and a 03 Lemans and I only purchased the Lemans after trying to buy an MGS-01 but was told by the local dealer that it was a no go. A recent exchange with someone from Moto International informed me that they could have gotten one during that time, which makes me even more aggravated with the dealers. The V9 isn't even a blip on my screen.
John curtailed his posting here when he purchased a V-Strom, but that is from memory.
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A lot of insults around lately and knocking people for not buying new bikes, being criminals when legally trying to obtain a titles, etc. What's going on?
I joined this forum to get some questions answered on restoring an old Moto Guzzi, and it's been great. Now all of a sudden a lot of accusations of us bringing the Moto Guzzi company down to its knees because the x-number or people here don't buy new, really?
It's not my job to keep Guzzi alive and well. I don't get a paycheck, no royalties, nothing. Does anyone here?
If they can't make it, not my problem. I'll happily stick with my vintage Moto Guzzi, which is exactly what I wanted. If I wanted a new one, I would have bough a new one.
I need my coffee now, I'm cranky :coffee:
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Just a newbie here, but feel right at home.
Bought a '96 EV11 cheap.
Ride a (cheap) KLR650 the rest of the time.
Got over that new bike depreciation thing about 12 years ago, don't really see going back - however the Royal Enfield Himalayan that's getting introduced tomorrow has me interested.
Now, the steel cut oats thing - no thanks.
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A lot of insults around lately and knocking people for not buying new bikes, being criminals when legally trying to obtain a titles, etc. What's going on?
....
If they can't make it, not my problem. I'll happily stick with my vintage Moto Guzzi, which is exactly what I wanted. If I wanted a new one, I would have bough a new one.
I need my coffee now, I'm cranky :coffee:
The point of the post is that many who were talking down the V9 and judging what Moto Guzzi (as a company) should do or not do have never, and likely will never buy a new one. These people shouldn't expect Guzzi to build bikes that they say should.
However, speaking as someone who has never bought a new Guzzi, I came close, but, found a great deal on a used one. That doesn't mean that I'll never buy a new one (I did buy a new Ducati last year).
I love both my V7's (a Special and a Racer), but, if Guzzi builds V7 Racer type bike with a good suspension out of the box, and 70 HP, I'd probably buy it. But, for now, they don't. The new Thruxton R really pulls at me, and is the bike on the market right now that I'm most likely to buy.
Do I think Guzzi will build it? No. Do I blame them? No. It would probably sell in small enough numbers to not make it worth the EPA certification, let alone the development costs.
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Isn't Vermont about the size of a McDonalds with a population of less than 100 ? :evil: C'mon John , I've heard better insults from an 85 year old woman with a bad knee :laugh:
Dusty
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From the advrider thread by rocker59:
<<When the V7s get the new engine for 2017, your choice may be easier.>>
What is the source or rationale for this prediction? Why would Guzzi spend the resources to develop a brand new platform (the V9s), then turn around and cannibalize its sales by dropping its motor into a predecessor model?
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A lot of insults around lately and knocking people for not buying new bikes, being criminals when legally trying to obtain a titles, etc. What's going on?
I joined this forum to get some questions answered on restoring an old Moto Guzzi, and it's been great. Now all of a sudden a lot of accusations of us bringing the Moto Guzzi company down to its knees because the x-number or people here don't buy new, really?
It's not my job to keep Guzzi alive and well. I don't get a paycheck, no royalties, nothing. Does anyone here?
If they can't make it, not my problem. I'll happily stick with my vintage Moto Guzzi, which is exactly what I wanted. If I wanted a new one, I would have bough a new one.
I need my coffee now, I'm cranky :coffee:
I think the insults in this case are being cast towards those who don't buy new Guzzis (and probably never will) BUT WHO FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY WHINE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T BEING CATERED TO.
Feel free to never buy a new one. But purchases are voting with your dollars and if you don't vote, don't bitch.
:wink: :boozing:
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From the advrider thread by rocker59:
<<When the V7s get the new engine for 2017, your choice may be easier.>>
What is the source or rationale for this prediction? Why would Guzzi spend the resources to develop a brand new platform (the V9s), then turn around and cannibalize its sales by dropping its motor into a predecessor model?
In the previous discussions it has always come down to the next level of EU emissions standards and a belief that the Heron V7 can't be brought into compliance, but the new V9 motor already is.
We were left with a pretty clear impression that a V9 Stone/Special/Racer of some sorts will appear next.
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Mr Carlson is looking for rationale on WG :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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From the advrider thread by rocker59:
<<When the V7s get the new engine for 2017, your choice may be easier.>>
What is the source or rationale for this prediction? Why would Guzzi spend the resources to develop a brand new platform (the V9s), then turn around and cannibalize its sales by dropping its motor into a predecessor model?
Very near future Euro emissions regs, (2017?) I believe. The V7 is still their best-seller, so they'll need to keep it in the lineup somehow. Dropping in the V9 motor would seem to be the easiest way to do that.
Doh! Kev m beat me to it...
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John isn't an outsider and he still writes the same sort of thing he always did here.
No it isn't our job to support Guzzi.
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I like plain donuts.
But they have to be Fresh! :coffee:
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I bought my (new) Guzzis when it was
still Guzzi De Tomaso/Maserati, I have no desire to buy a Piaggio. :evil:
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I guess that I am one of the strangest of us. The two MotoGuzzis I bought were both brand new.
Well, almost. One of them was a left over new.
But in my own defense, if the dealers wouldn't hold them over we wouldn't buy them that way.
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I think the insults in this case are being cast towards those who don't buy new Guzzis (and probably never will) BUT WHO FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY WHINE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T BEING CATERED TO.
Feel free to never buy a new one. But a purchases are voting with your dollars and if you don't vote, don't bitch.
:wink: :boozing:
I agree.
Nothing wrong with owning and enjoying an older Guzzi(of which I have three) but I get somewhat tired of reading how the new ones are NG, when I have over 70K miles on new bikes that I don't have to fuddle with points and carbs.
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Good grief , John in VT hasn't been active here in almost a year and a half and decides to toss a bomb over on ADVrider . Dang fellas , sounds like he hit his target . Why would we care is the real question .
Dusty
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Just a newbie here, but feel right at home.
Bought a '96 EV11 cheap.
Ride a (cheap) KLR650 the rest of the time.
Got over that new bike depreciation thing about 12 years ago, don't really see going back - however the Royal Enfield Himalayan that's getting introduced tomorrow has me interested.
Now, the steel cut oats thing - no thanks.
Welcome to WG, but don't automatically dismiss the steel cut oats. :cool: :boozing: We can't take this place too seriously..
You *will* find this to be the best place on the net for keeping your 1100 running.
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I've bought 5 alltogether. Two new and 3 used. From buying my first new one, I learned to control my impulses. I paid top dollar for a 1200 Sport only to see great deals on new ones emerge only a month or two later. I still have that one for two reasons: it's a great bike and, I'd lose too much money by selling it.
The second new one I was able to dicker on a bit. But, the big difference was that I saw the bike, an 08' California, as a long-time keeper that had a great reputation. I still have it, too.
The other three were all V11 variations: an 03' Sport, an 03' Cafe Sport, and an 04' V11 Sport (which is in pristine condition with only 13K miles and is for sale). It seems I've never quite got over how much fun riding a V11 is and this last one was just too nice to walk away from.
I'd love to have a V7 II or even a V9 as a scrambler type. There are a lot of gravel and forestry roads hereabouts I'd like to travel that are too far to get to on a little 250CC Yamaha Sero. But, from my first new experience, I'll now wait for the price to drop. After all, this is a want sort of thing. Not a need sort of thing.
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RE the steel cut oats thread......as I recall that was started on a whim when Leafman60 and I were comparing breakfast options at Bike Week a few years ago. It turned out that quite a few of our campfire friends had something to contribute and it was a nice break from endless oil threads, speculation about the 1400 Cali, and the general misery of winter. If the thread is now a point of ridicule that's just one man's opinion. I, for one, am happy that we can talk about a broad range of topics. Oh, and we usually keep it civil.
Peter Y.
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I think the insults in this case are being cast towards those who don't buy new Guzzis (and probably never will) BUT WHO FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY WHINE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T BEING CATERED TO.
Feel free to never buy a new one. But a purchases are voting with your dollars and if you don't vote, don't bitch.
:wink: :boozing:
:1:
:popcorn:
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From the advrider thread by rocker59:
<<When the V7s get the new engine for 2017, your choice may be easier.>>
What is the source or rationale for this prediction? Why would Guzzi spend the resources to develop a brand new platform (the V9s), then turn around and cannibalize its sales by dropping its motor into a predecessor model?
Just to add a comment to the two others that addressed this, IMHO, the V7 and V9 server two different markets with some overlap, but, there is still room in the lineup for both, even if the V7 has the V9 engine.
I for one (and there are many others), don't care for styling or ergos of either the V9 models, and wouldn't buy one. I'd choose the V7 over either of the V9 models, even with the current engine.
As I've said before (and others have said too), the V9 models were introduced to broaden the market appeal of Guzzi; to go after the Sportster & Bolt market. To that end, I think they did a good job, and I wish them well. What's good for Guzzi is good for us. Heck, sales of the V9 might even give them the development money for the next Griso!
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Just a newbie here, but feel right at home.
Bought a '96 EV11 cheap.
Ride a (cheap) KLR650 the rest of the time.
Two cheaps. You have great Guzzi potential.
If you post pictures of copper sweat (lead) pipes being used for an exhaust system, you will be In Like Flint. :wink:
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I bought my (new) Guzzis when it was still Guzzi De Tomaso/Maserati, I have no desire to buy a Piaggio. :evil:
:1:
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I must be the odd man out :undecided: in that I bought my Guzzi NEW!!! Now I feel I must qualify that by saying it is the ONLY Guzzi I have ever had and it will be the only Guzzi I will ever have. Why? Why change it when it suits me just fine and I just love it. :thumb:
Puts a grin on my face every time I ride it. Guzzi got it (pretty well) right in 2003. Their Q.C. might have been a bit off, that's all.
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I'm on my 7th Guzzi. Two were bought new. My first one and my seventh one.
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I'm part of the problem, too. I've had 12, but only two were new. :smiley: If Guzzi continues down the path they're on, though, they'll be the last. <shrug>
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I am the problem :angry: never bought a new guzzi (only had three) but I take care of things and hold on to them. (Wierd I know) but I don't whine about not having a dealer nearby either. I just go to the local triumph dealer :thumb:
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I was not aware they made bikes since the early 90's :grin: besides I am too busy saving the 'old' ones to pay attention to the new stuff. May be in 20 years I will buy a clapped out V7 and rebuild it.
I have no issue with the OP rant, I kinda take it as a compliment.
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Why buy new when old exceeds my riding abilities? Besides, Bob McIntyre broke the 100mph lap at IOM in 1957 on what must have been 2.5" or 3" wide bias ply tires and a few dozen hp.
I wonder how many sport bike riders on current machinery can match that today.
Fwiw, steel cut oats make my jaw tired. Shouldn't have to expend a days energy on breakfast.
Tobit
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New bc they have roller tappets. :boozing:
Two year warranty..
Brand spanking new tires.
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I bought my V7II Stone new. I even ordered it and waited for it even though the dealer had (has?) two left over V7s on the showroom floor. It has everything I wanted in a motorcycle (ABS, FI, EI, shaft drive, reasonable but not excessive horsepower, relatively light weight, great/unique looks, excellent cruising range, easy maintenance with good service intervals, etc) and nothing I didn't want (water cooling, robot/transformer/preying mantis plastic coated fairing looks, dozens of electronic gizmos and riding style selections, more power than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, the ability to leap tall buildings, etc). I say MG did an outstanding job of designing this motorcycle and for me it beats the pants off anything Triumph and Ducati and BMW and anyone else has to offer, so YEA MG and keep up the great work.
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One wonders what the rabble over at ADVrider think about changing oil ? Hot/warm/cold ? Someone ask them , come on , it will be fun :evil:
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Reply #170 of the V9 Thread over at ADVRider:
link to thread (login required): http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-moto-guzzi-v9.1105499/page-9#post-28571424 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-moto-guzzi-v9.1105499/page-9#post-28571424)
No offense, but, I have to admit, this guy is pretty spot on in his take on Guzzi owners/riders.
Hey jas67,
The guy obviously meant to offend. You may think he is on target but as a long time Guzzi owner/rider I really don't think this internet gasbag knows sh*t about me or my thoughts on my rides. And taking anything someone who calles me a f^$ker says seriously isn't gong to happen.
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One wonders what the rabble over at ADVrider think about changing oil ? Hot/warm/cold ? Someone ask them , come on , it will be fun :evil:
Dusty,
They have a Jo Mama section over there just for guys like you. :grin: IMO, the best all around motorcycle forum on the internet.
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-3)Guzzi is not a museum dedicated to the masturbatory delights of grizzled old f&*()& WHO DO NOT BUY NEW BIKES. It's a business.
GOFWDNBNB
or their jollies
MDOGOFWDNBNB
or the more general noun
GOF
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ADVrider. . .isnt that where folks go to compare expensive gear that'll never see the trails' head much less the trails end? Just saying. The steel cuts the oats both ways.
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When does the my dad can beat up your dad thing start? :rolleyes:
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Dusty,
They have a Jo Mama section over there just for guys like you. :grin: IMO, the best all around motorcycle forum on the internet.
What ever do you mean ? :laugh:
Dusty
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Psychology 101 week one lesson one i says all people will do what they perceive is in their own best interest.
If I had the money I'd be looking at a new bike often. Some here do and good for them.
I don't have that kind of money, love my 78 T3, and that will probably be my last bike. I'm a happy camper. Seems like most riders here own older bikes. Some I can't believe how many they own. That's the makeup of this forum. His expectations may be running amok.
I see his point on the overall Guzzi direction. I think Guzzi has city dwellers and commuters in mind for the majority of V7 sales. That's the one that needs a bigger motor. I expect them to drop the Griso too. Piaggio has changed the direction of the company. I'd do a retro 850 T3 and put a 1000cc motor in it a la Gilardoni.
His critical nature makes a blip on my radar screen. That kind of talk tunes me out so I pay no attention.
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I bought a new Vintage in '07...Guzzi has not created an envy in me since. They make great bikes, but nothing I would endeavor to purchase. However, I know they will tickle my fancy once more...they seem to do it every ten years or so...
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This whole thread urges me to make some steel cut oats and then start a thread about it. :bike-037:
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Hey jas 67, I'm the first to admit I don't know much about the intricacies of other Guzzis , but I've learned a bit about both of mine, so here's the silly question. I like the look of your Guzzi very much, the fairing looks great, is it original to the bike, 'cos I think it looks great.
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I didn't think a 200mile range was too much to ask for on a 1400 Cali.
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Hey jas 67, I'm the first to admit I don't know much about the intricacies of other Guzzis , but I've learned a bit about both of mine, so here's the silly question. I like the look of your Guzzi very much, the fairing looks great, is it original to the bike, 'cos I think it looks great.
He added the now unavailable OEM "Record" fairing kit to the V7R (which is the bike I'm assuming about which you're talking.
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Two cheaps. You have great Guzzi potential.
If you post pictures of copper sweat (lead) pipes being used for an exhaust system, you will be In Like Flint. :wink:
Another James Coburn movie connection! One of my favorites spy spoof movies.
I believe the expression is actually ..."in like Flynn"
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Hey jas 67, I'm the first to admit I don't know much about the intricacies of other Guzzis , but I've learned a bit about both of mine, so here's the silly question. I like the look of your Guzzi very much, the fairing looks great, is it original to the bike, 'cos I think it looks great.
The fairing is part of the "V7 Racer Record" kit that Guzzi sold a couple of years back. The sold the last few of them separately from the seat + cowling that I didn't like.
They are NLA now, so, I'm glad that I got it when I did. I'm not sure how many were ever sold, but, I would guess they are a rare beast.
The fairings were made for Guzzi by Stucchi Luig, who also sold a similar one (pictured on a nice V7 Cafe Classic in another thread). Stucchi Luig are now LGC SRL, http://lgccompany.it/en/ (http://lgccompany.it/en/). Contact them, maybe they still have some?
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I'm in agreement with the OP in this case and KevM also. I don't wait for Guzzi to come out with a bike I might or hope to desire, I build my own. Suits my needs and desires better than the factory could do. Not cheap but keepers. The old stuff is good; upgrade it. Don't ever see a new Guzzi in my lifetime, so I have no vote.
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I've got a 2002 EV and a 2007 Breva 1100 the best of old and new, I'm a happy GUZZI owner.
Dean
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ADVrider. . .isnt that where folks go to compare expensive gear that'll never see the trails' head much less the trails end? Just saying. The steel cuts the oats both ways.
we have quite a bit of that here too!
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The original comment from ADVRider is pretty accurate, but hey.
What's ironic/interesting to me is that WildGuzzi is a far more active and interesting forum--oatmeal notwithstanding--than those for bikes that sell in far greater quantities. I guess that's how cults are. :-)
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The original comment from ADVRider is pretty accurate, but hey.
What's ironic/interesting to me is that WildGuzzi is a far more active and interesting forum--oatmeal notwithstanding--than those for bikes that sell in far greater quantities. I guess that's how cults are. :-)
It was Groucho Marx that said:
" I don't care to belong to a cult (he actually said club) that accepts people like me as members " lol
By the way if I was dividing MG into old and new i'd make the break at fuel injection/carbs.... Or maybe
Points...EI
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By the way if I was dividing MG into old and new i'd make the break at fuel injection/carbs.... Or maybe
Points...EI
Good point.
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Maybe they admire our unique perspective.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/tortoise-and-the-hare_zpsobia2pvn.jpg)
:grin:
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I think the insults in this case are being cast towards those who don't buy new Guzzis (and probably never will) BUT WHO FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY WHINE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T BEING CATERED TO.
Feel free to never buy a new one. But purchases are voting with your dollars and if you don't vote, don't bitch.
:wink: :boozing:
I tend to agree somewhat with what your saying Kev having bought 3 new Guzzis in the last 6 years . There are a lot of opinions from many on this forum as to what a used Guzzi should sell for and it's usually some rock bottom dollar that sometimes astounds me .
Maybe it's a good thing but I count my blessings that it's not the other way like it is for the Harley market . Man , those bikes are way over valued compared to anything else out there but that's just my opinion .
I think we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously because I know many who have bought new Guzzis' who aren't on this site at all and don't want to be . Se la vie :wink:
On another note per your request a while back the (new) retro Triumphs where at the bike show in all their glory . Nicely finished motorcycles with what sounds like a brute of a motor cranking out over 100 hp according to the dealer .
I was not that interested as an 04 V11 Ballabio in mint condition was there for sale and I was enthralled . The price was a little steep but it's red with CF muffs and only has 10,000 miles on it . I pick it up in April .
This proves a point , only Guzzi will do !
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Ha ha, thanks for that report Rocky... I get it, though I think I'm more interested in the T120 and some future V9 Stone personally.... Or an Eldo 1400 hmmm.