Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldbike54 on February 05, 2016, 07:40:29 PM
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Or HD , or Toyota , or McDonalds , and thank goodness for that .
Dusty
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Or HD , or Toyota , or McDonalds , and thank goodness for that .
Dusty
Doing a little deep thinking Dusty? ;-)
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Doing a little deep thinking Dusty? ;-)
Having met me Bob , what do you think :laugh:
Dusty
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Because asking for fries with that would be awkward.
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WTF????????? I was hoping it was McDonalds
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Rocker will be along shortly to interpret , at least I hope :evil:
Dusty
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You can't make that many bikes, cars of burgers with a "soul" :rolleyes:
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Yeah but Mickey Dees does have special sauce.
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You can't make that many bikes, cars of burgers with a "soul" :rolleyes:
John gets it .. although we both would probably prefer personality to "soul" .
Dusty
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John gets it .. although we both would probably prefer personality to "soul" .
Dusty
To me an inanimate object with a "soul" is impossible. Maybe it's my zen Baptist upbringing.
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To me an inanimate object with a "soul" is impossible. Maybe it's my zen Baptist upbringing.
Thus the term "personality" , which requires what ?
Dusty
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Now that I think about it , hasn't Honda been promising hard bags for the VFR since about 1997 ? Hmm , seems even Honda isn't perfect :evil:
Dusty
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Rocker will be along shortly to interpret , at least I hope :evil:
Dusty
Guzzi is that indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town. The arch opposite of Olive Garden.
No matter how many yuppies discover it and want to make it something it's not, it remains the indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town, and can never be Olive Garden...
Damn. I'm getting hungry...
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Moto Guzzi isn't Honda, or HD , or Toyota , or McDonalds , and thank goodness for that .
Dusty
:1: to that, brother Dusty.
Preach it!
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Guzzi is that indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town. The arch opposite of Olive Garden.
No matter how many yuppies discover it and want to make it something it's not, it remains the indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town, and can never be Olive Garden...
Damn. I'm getting hungry...
YOU preach it brother :bow:
Speaking of food , maybe next weekend you can lead us to a funky indy cafe in NWA .
Dusty
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Zen Baptist? Do tell
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Zen Baptist? Do tell
It just means he has read Pirsig's book :laugh:
Dusty
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Now that I think about it , hasn't Honda been promising hard bags for the VFR since about 1997 ? Hmm , seems even Honda isn't perfect :evil:
Dusty
Honda did offer hard bags for the 2002-2009 VFR800. I honestly don't know if they did for the VFR1200 or the current VFR800.
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It is definitely winter, isn't it (this thread, and threads like it).
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:popcorn:
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:popcorn:..... :clock:...... :violent1:...... :boxing:....... :whip2:
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Different bikes for different moods...I really like my CB1100........
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Different bikes for different moods...I really like my CB1100........
Yeah , me too . No intent to slam any brand .
Dusty
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I'd argue that Harleys have character/soul. I had a hayabusa that had it's own kind of personality.
Obviously I'm partial to guzzi's, never being without at least one for the last 25 years.
I'd like to get an older Honda sportbike one of these days.
McDonalds? can't eat that crap, made dirty hot dog water shoot out of my ass every time.
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I'd argue that Harleys have character/soul.
This isn't an argument , but it has been years since HD has produced bikes from the wrong side of the tracks :laugh:
Dusty
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I don't really worry about the HD image/lifestyle thing, and if I were to look for one, it'd probably be a project from the AMF era. :)
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There is more than one way to be moved by a motorcycle.
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I'd argue that Harleys have character/soul.
Yeah, I get it too. There is something about the Harley engine, and to me the engine is what a motor cycle is about. I much prefer Rocker's indy cafe, though.
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But Honda is a fantastic company that makes excellent products and has contributed great innovations to the industry.
After I got my second CB350-Four (now moved on to a collector) I bought an old book: Honda: The Man and His Machines, by Sol Sanders. (1975). It's a great story of Soichiro's life, his passion for machines (especially motorcycles) and the development of the company up to that time (when they were uncertain how the automobile line would do.)
A quote from Soichiro:
"Driving a car is like sitting in the living room; driving a motorcycle is something like riding a horse - it's driving and controlling something that is almost alive." (page 120)
Another quote from the book:
"Honda is chairman of the Motorcycle Safety Program in the Japan Automobile association. In the United States, it was Honda's initial offer to back an industrywide safety council operation for education and research up to $1 million a year that got the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, headquartered in Washington, going in 1971. In 1966 Honda developed techniques for simulating motorcycle crashes in a program to try to design bikes that would be safer... Honda was the first manufacturer to offer disc brakes on the front wheel - in the face of catcalls from the old motorcycle hands who saw them as superfluous... Honda has been first with a number of what cynical motorcyclists call "idiot lights," gauges for oil pressure, turn signals, beepers, and flashers." (pages 141-142)
So yeah - Moto Guzzi isn't Honda. But Honda has a rich history that has shaped the entire industry in ways that we can appreciate. A case could also be made that Moto Guzzi has learned more from Honda than vice-versa.
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Honda did offer hard bags for the 2002-2009 VFR800. I honestly don't know if they did for the VFR1200 or the current VFR800.
yes and yes
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A case could also be made that Moto Guzzi has learned more from Honda than vice-versa.
d00d....
:sad:
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I believe more than any mainstream manufacturer ,Honda has investigated extreme RPM engines.. I have a Honda dirt bike that so troublesome you might say it has European character :grin:
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Hmmm. A lot of manufacturers studied Honda.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/Moto%20Guzzi%20350gts%2074_zps4daq36ra.jpg)
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d00d....
:sad:
Sorry to disappoint.
However, I think that if we look objectively at the entire industry, that Honda has innovated and contributed more than Moto Guzzi over their respective histories. I highly recommend the book I cited - if you can find a copy.
I've had three Hondas - two of the 350-Fours and a 996 Superhawk. I liked them all (except for the stupidly small gas tank on the Superhawk), but I LOVE my Guzzis and my Husqvarna.
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Hmmm. A lot of manufacturers studied Honda.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/Moto%20Guzzi%20350gts%2074_zps4daq36ra.jpg)
Very cool... I was not familiar with that Guzzi model. It reminds me of a bike I used to have... (but with a front disc brake)
To the high-RPM point: My 1972 Honda CB 350-Four would do 100 MPH at 10,000 RPMs in 5th gear. Think about those numbers for 1972. Rather amazing.
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_1389.jpg) (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/timscudder/media/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_1389.jpg.html)
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Hmmm. A lot of manufacturers studied Honda.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/Moto%20Guzzi%20350gts%2074_zps4daq36ra.jpg)
Not a Guzzi, just a rebadged Benelli.
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Scud , once again , the intention was not to bash Honda , or Harley , or McDonalds . Well , maybe Mcdonalds :evil: The idea is this , some folks seem to be disappointed that MG doesn't act like Honda, or HD .
As for Soichiro Honda , no doubt he was an amazing man , loved motorbikes , apparently owned quite a few from different companies , hell , maybe even a Guzzi :laugh:
Dusty
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Scud , once again , the intention was not to bash Honda , or Harley , or McDonalds . Well , maybe Mcdonalds :evil: The idea is this , some folks seem to be disappointed that MG doesn't act like Honda, or HD .
As for Soichiro Honda , no doubt he was an amazing man , loved motorbikes , apparently owned quite a few from different companies , hell , maybe even a Guzzi :laugh:
Dusty
I refer back to my original post on this subject............ "Doing a little deep thinking Dusty? ;-)" <LOL>
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Thanks Dusty. As for acting like Honda: I think Honda got the funds to be innovative by getting 80 million people to buy Super Cubs... and heaps of other popular models.
Now if Guzzi can get 10,000 people a year to buy V7s and V9s, maybe they can put some cash in the bank and develop the diesel-tractor adventure-bike we've all been waiting for... :rolleyes: ... or maybe a LeMans 7 (or whatever number is up next).
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McDonalds? can't eat that crap, made dirty hot dog water shoot out of my ass every time.
Information overload.
Dean
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Thanks Dusty. As for acting like Honda: I think Honda got the funds to be innovative by getting 80 million people to buy Super Cubs... and heaps of other popular models.
Now if Guzzi can get 10,000 people a year to buy V7s and V9s, maybe they can put some cash in the bank and develop the diesel-tractor adventure-bike we've all been waiting for... :rolleyes: ... or maybe a LeMans 7 (or whatever number is up next).
:laugh: Yeah , the Super Cub production figures are approaching 90 million , truly incredible . Just assuming a profit of 10 bucks per unit over the production run , Honda has probably made more money on one model than Guzzi has in total since 1958 :shocked:,
Dusty
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Moto Guzzi isn't Honda ..................
:azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :bow: and that is good news
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The whole anti anything not Moto Guzzi is strange. Sure, Moto Guzzi bikes are unique. So we now have the:
UIM, the unique Italian Motorcycle.
But it really doesn't matter. The character, soul, personality or whatever is what sits on the seat of a motorcycle, not the parts used to make it. Put a Neanderthal on any motorcycle including a UIM and that is what you have, nothing more. There is no genuine appreciation for anything else if accomplishment especially if it is better in any way.
The Honda V65 Sabre properly sorted as the UIM works says it, has as much soul, character and personality as any Moto Guzzi. It has the subtle vibes of power that with a competent rider was nothing less than an unleashed Saturn 5 rocket. Sorted right and anyone would do to any Moto Guzzi, it could take you across the country in supple pleasure or spin through curves without embarrassment. At idle its raspy burble could make any.muscle car drive envious.
There was none of this "you don't need ____________" justification because your bike didn't have it and no matter what you did never would.
You put an oil kit on it and then ran it 100,000 miles because that was the norm, not some holy grail achievement.
Yamaha had the GTS and if you wanted something unique, it was that in spades. Its 2 stroke twins left everything in a cloud of blue smoke on any day on any road that wasn't I10.
Suzuki's V-Strom practically made ADV the thing to buy.
The rider makes the motorcycle, not the other way around. Far too many people substitute having a uniquely styled motorcycle for not being able to see past their vacuum tube TV, transistor radio and the tube tire patch kit in their back pocket.
Motorcycling is the sum of all the brands and motorcyclists are the sum of all those who ride.
Those who berate brands they don't like for whatever reason aren't motorcylists, they are just tired hold backs of a tired era but they too will fade away.
What can we do to help?
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:rolleyes:
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On my first ride of the LeMans IV around Clearwater Beach a toll guard asked me "What kind of Honda is that?"
So there.
Tobit
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I am about 90% of the way getting my EV sorted.
Sometimes I wish it were a little more like a Honda.
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A frind of mine has two Guzzi's in his garage and a ST1100 Honda, the two guzzles sit waiting for repairs after he got fed up with them, the Honda with a lot of miles on it, just hit the starter and it goes, some times that what matters over soul. Just saying.
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I think I get it.
Harley Davidson's like a Big mac! Honda is Burger King. Moto Guzzi is for guy's who preffer rissoles the way their Mama used to make 'em, well almost because it turns out these guys can also be partial to the odd Big mac and even though they prefer their rissoles, recently they have taken to adding a leaf of lettuce, a bit of gherkin and even some relish here and there. Some of these guys have even taken to bragging about the quality of there rissoles and tried to introduce young folk to the authentic taste of Mamas rissoles but it always comes to nothing - the young folk just look at the rissole and without taking a bite say 'It's OK, I'll go get myself a Big mac"
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A quote from Soichiro:
"Driving a car is like sitting in the living room; driving a motorcycle is something like riding a horse - it's driving and controlling something that is almost alive." (page 120)
YES.....
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More like Mamas rissoles are the only food allowed and anything else is sacrilege, including adding a little pepper. And don't even mention a change to the recipie unless it passes muster and then only when applied to the original because changing the old is okay even if it means turning rissoles into rigatoni but even mention changes to something new and its you have the wrong food!
Or, completely rebuild an older model and turn a street bike into an ADV and hooray. Take the old bike and make a trike and its a feat of miracles. Even mention changing a new model and you bought the wrong bike.
The younger people like rissoles, they just don't want it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
And that is why Hondas and McDonalds exists and why our Moto Guzzis have disk brakes, fuel injection and more than one mirror. :evil:
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More like Mamas rissoles are the only food allowed and anything else is sacrilege, including adding a little pepper. And don't even mention a change to the recipie unless it passes muster and then only when applied to the original because changing the old is okay even if it means turning rissoles into rigatoni but even mention changes to something new and its you have the wrong food!
Or, completely rebuild an older model and turn a street bike into an ADV and hooray. Take the old bike and make a trike and its a feat of miracles. Even mention changing a new model and you bought the wrong bike.
The younger people like rissoles, they just don't want it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
And that is why Hondas and McDonalds exists and why our Moto Guzzis have disk brakes, fuel injection and more than one mirror. :evil:
That's funny,
By the way that other mirror, you have those in the US too? Unless we ride Lambretta's when we need lots of mirrors (obviously) we just have two in case we go riding on the continent, don't we?
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Without getting in too deep, other than the many miles I put on my Matchy I/we have owned two C100 Cubs, a C90, a CB100, a CB250RS and a GB400 followed finally by the Breva.
Must admit that the Hondas have all been very good. Took a year trying to get the agents to sort the 400 out (and couldn't) so the day it came out of it's warranty period I did it myself.
A Honda was the only Japanese bike I would consider (after working on friends various other brands0.
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John gets it .. although we both would probably prefer personality to "soul" .
Dusty
I was recently laid up for 48 hours by a burger with too much personality :wink:
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Moto Guzzi isn't Honda ..................
:azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :bow: and that is good news
If I wanted a Honda, I would have a Honda. I don't have a Honda, so what shall we infer?
It always chaps me when someone asks, 'Wouldn't you rather have a Harley?'
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskino Spy
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I was recently laid up for 48 hours by a burger with too much personality :wink:
...and thank-you for not describing the "exit strategy."
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The idea is this , some folks seem to be disappointed that MG doesn't act like Honda, or HD .
Exactly... Too many people around here pissing and crying because Guzzi isn't like Honda or Yamaha or Toyota or whatever big mega company.
Too may threads crying "why doesn't Guzzi do what ______ mega company does".
It's getting old. Real old.
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This forum in no different that most other forums of other brands, if you listen to all the complaining about issues the bikes are said to have you would be afraid to venture far from home on any of them.
Bob
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Exactly... Too many people around here pissing and crying because Guzzi isn't like Honda or Yamaha or Toyota or whatever big mega company.
Too may threads crying "why doesn't Guzzi do what ______ mega company does".
It's getting old. Real old.
The reason I am riding a Guzzi is partly because of its non-mainstream status. Add the beautiful flowing lines of the Guzzi designs, the unique power delivery of the engines, the above average handling of the chassis, and the ease of routine services and it suits me well...better than the "big" companies' offerings for the most part. Were Guzzi to become another "popular" make, some or all of the things that draw me would likely be compromised or gone altogether. I want them to stay in business....but just barely...like it's always been! :evil: Flame if you will....I'm wearing Nomex. :thumb:
Oh yeah....Guzzi's draw "different" folks as owners. Where will we all end up if Guzzi becomes mainstream? Not a pretty picture.
Terry
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Guzzi is that indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town. The arch opposite of Olive Garden.
No matter how many yuppies discover it and want to make it something it's not, it remains the indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town, and can never be Olive Garden...
Damn. I'm getting hungry...
Its like old English sports cars and a few of my girl friends....you got to like a little pain to enjoy.
:-)
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What about that whole "You meet the nicest people on a Guzzi" campaign?? Was that just a load of mele stradali??
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqfy41DZKM1qlbtloo1_1280.jpg)
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What about that whole "You meet the nicest people on a Guzzi" campaign?? Was that just a load of mele stradali??
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqfy41DZKM1qlbtloo1_1280.jpg)
Maybe most unique , or most unusual , or my preference , weirdest might work better :grin:
Dusty
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If it's got two wheels and a motor, I'm interested.
First bike I purchased myself at 16...was 1974 CL 360...I loved that bike. I have a 74 cl360 now that is perfect for Northern Michigan gravel roads...and a 75 cb450 that is an awesome machine....man oh man talk about tight valve tolerances. We're all here cause we like a particular Italian product. I like many Italian products. Italian women especially.
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Here's another Honda story from my book (but summarized, not quoted).
Soichiro personally worked with the team that designed the CVCC engine in the early 1970s. CVCC stands for Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion - and later morphed into the Civic name for one of their cars. Essentially, they invented dual-port induction whereby a rich and lean mixture are both introduced to the chamber to enable fuller combustion with less fuel. These cars were the first to pass US EPA's stringent (for the time) guidelines, and they did it without pumps, catalytic converters, and other "clean-up" devices that all the other manufacturers were using. The book describes Honda's philosophy of solving problems at the source - not after they happened. It was natural for him to try to make the fuel burn cleaner in the first place, and unnatural for him to try to clean the exhaust gas. This philosophy is also why he argued against helmet laws, and instead argued for safety features such as disc brakes, better lighting, etc. He was focused on reducing accidents, more than on reducing injury after accidents. This philosophy also influenced his major contribution to rider education.
This is not a Honda commercial, and I don't even have a Honda to defend (at the moment...). But I sure would like to see more people like Soichiro leading companies today.
FWIW - I missed two previously owned Hondas in my earlier post. I had an XR70 and CRF100, kid-size dirt-bikes for my daughters. One word: In-freakin-destructible.
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Its like old English sports cars and a few of my girl friends....you got to like a little pain to enjoy.
:-)
Exactly! :thumb:
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No, and my Gramma don't have wheels...
But then, from where I sit, these days... Honda isn't really Honda anymore and Moto Guzzi hasn't been Moto Guzzi since the onset of MAP dependancy and genuflecting to Euro/CARB nazis and don't even get me started on this fad of "tubeless" tires!
But then, like Gino said: Things change.
Todd.
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My Honda S-90, and then the Honda 305 Superhawk -were both unique to me vehicles - they always ran, no problems. Actually my second NGB ran perfectly for the first two years of its life. But it was mostly Honda that taught me that reliable and vehicle were not mutually exclusive terms.
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Interesting how this has turned into a Honda thread . As stated earlier , we aren't bashing Honda , they have built wonderful products for years . What we were pointing out is the complete waste of time that attempting to turn MG into Honda is . Produced from two very different cultures , both corporate and national .
Dusty
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I have some Honda experience that i should share with those that think the sun shines out of Soichrio,s butt ... :laugh:
i worked for a large shop for 3 years that sold and serviced Honda motorcycles as well as Yamaha and Suzuki ..
In that time as compared to Suzuki , and Yamaha ...Honda had the lions share of service work covered by warranty and also as to recall on defective parts from factory.
Mechanics found them tedious to work on and therefore more labor intensive then the other brands.
At another shop that specialized in performance gain it was far more expensive to do a Honda up rather than a Suzuki for example as a Honda was built to run stock and a Suzuki was overbuilt , heavier stock bearings , clutch , valve train etc .
long story short it cost a lot less to gain HP/ performance from a 4 stroke Kawasaki , or Suzuki that most any Honda model.
Yes Honda was innovative, but in reality as the expense of complexity whereas their competition got the job done by engine simplicity and durability.
I am not saying Honda's competition wasn't fail safe but over all they were better motorcycles ..in my opinion as well as my co workers at the time..
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Is this a Honda thread? Well, if I may be so bold... Honda is in the subject line. To discuss the topic we need to talk about Honda a bit - to facilitate comparisons to Guzzi.
As for the land of the rising Soichiro Butt-sun... I am impressed by the man. But that doesn't mean that I think everything that bears his name is automatically good. There are plenty of undesirable Hondas.
I had two Yamaha inline fours - a 600cc Radian and an FJ1100. Both were trouble-free for many miles. The FJ was one of my favorite bikes - an absolute beast. Every time I see one I think "I should get another one of those." I've never been moved enough by anything in the Suzuki or Kawasaki line to own one.
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Exactly... Too many people around here pissing and crying because Guzzi isn't like Honda or Yamaha or Toyota or whatever big mega company.
Too may threads crying "why doesn't Guzzi do what ______ mega company does".
It's getting old. Real old.
:1:
Dean
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Is this a Honda thread? Well, if I may be so bold... Honda is in the subject line. To discuss the topic we need to talk about Honda a bit - to facilitate comparisons to Guzzi.
As for the land of the rising Soichiro Butt-sun... I am impressed by the man. But that doesn't mean that I think everything that bears his name is automatically good. There are plenty of undesirable Hondas.
I had two Yamaha inline fours - a 600cc Radian and an FJ1100. Both were trouble-free for many miles. The FJ was one of my favorite bikes - an absolute beast. Every time I see one I think "I should get another one of those." I've never been moved enough by anything in the Suzuki or Kawasaki line to own one.
Oh, yeah.. me, too.
That said, those early V4s were a nightmare. Constant valve issues.. FINALLY cured by tapping into the main oil gallery and fabricating oil lines to feed the top end. Not for the faint of heart or someone that gripes about taking the pan off a Guzzi. :smiley:
Edit: Oh, forgot the "complicated just because they could engineering.." 4 carbs and the parts aren't interchangeable. (!) Adjusting the valves requires a midget monkey, and if he *drops* something, it's in the belly of the beast, requiring a tear down. (!!)
Gimme an 80s Guzzi any day.
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Interesting how this has turned into a Honda thread . As stated earlier , we aren't bashing Honda , they have built wonderful products for years . What we were pointing out is the complete waste of time that attempting to turn MG into Honda is . Produced from two very different cultures , both corporate and national .
Dusty
Who wants to turn MG into Honda? Haven't seen any of that here on any thread.
Updating MG bikes doesn't make them any less MG, it makes them better for a lot of people. Like old muscle cars of the 60s and early 70s there will always be a market of highly dedicated purists who think they stopped making cars after that and everything since is rather gummed up. The reality is that those old cars can't compete with their new model counterparts without being completely remade so they end up being something else anyway. Most of those older cars were downright miserable as they left the showrooms but nostalgia, like the soft lens, makes craggy look beautiful.
Motorcycles are like that too. How many old Guzzis run around stock as they came and compare in any measure of performance to the new? Sure, after it is remade in the image of the owner or in the case of the collector, a short trip to stir the emotional pot but then in most cases, its not what was made.
I think the reason there is the talk about modernizing or updating is because people want to see a MG for sale next year and the year after, not just a rehash of the old or the used being resold to an ever smaller group of purists.
Nothing wrong with purist as that is what maintains heritage and the roots back to fond memories but the future is more than that. If MG keeps being a small exclusive club then eventually, and that time seems to getting much closer, future generations won't be able to enjoy them, not because they don't like MG bikes but because what they want in a motorcycle isn't really tolerated or seen as necessary.
Well, money is necessary to maintain a company and to build bikes. No money, no company, no bikes. That might even bring a certain satisfaction to some because then they'd have someone no one else going forward would be able to get. The so long as I have mine thinking never promoted a future for anything.
I image that the guy with the old Challenger smirks at the guy who buys a new one and sees in it a shell of past but true glory. The guy who just bought a new one though, can drive it across the country in relative comfort without pulling a snap-on trailer full of tools behind him.
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I have some Honda experience that i should share with those that think the sun shines out of Soichrio,s butt ... :laugh:
i worked for a large shop for 3 years that sold and serviced Honda motorcycles as well as Yamaha and Suzuki ..
In that time as compared to Suzuki , and Yamaha ...Honda had the lions share of service work covered by warranty and also as to recall on defective parts from factory.
Mechanics found them tedious to work on and therefore more labor intensive then the other brands.
At another shop that specialized in performance gain it was far more expensive to do a Honda up rather than a Suzuki for example as a Honda was built to run stock and a Suzuki was overbuilt , heavier stock bearings , clutch , valve train etc .
long story short it cost a lot less to gain HP/ performance from a 4 stroke Kawasaki , or Suzuki that most any Honda model.
Yes Honda was innovative, but in reality as the expense of complexity whereas their competition got the job done by engine simplicity and durability.
I am not saying Honda's competition wasn't fail safe but over all they were better motorcycles ..in my opinion as well as my co workers at the time..
my 1200 Bandit has been pretty solid with 80k miles and runs like a raped ape. I have a Bandit friend that has 130k+ miles on his.
Mine was the last iteration of all the Japanese air cooled 4 cyl performance machines.
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Oh, yeah.. me, too.
That said, those early V4s were a nightmare. Constant valve issues.. FINALLY cured by tapping into the main oil gallery and fabricating oil lines to feed the top end. Not for the faint of heart or someone that gripes about taking the pan off a Guzzi. :smiley:
Edit: Oh, forgot the "complicated just because they could engineering.." 4 carbs and the parts aren't interchangeable. (!) Adjusting the valves requires a midget monkey, and if he *drops* something, it's in the belly of the beast, requiring a tear down. (!!)
Gimme an 80s Guzzi any day.
Had three early-mid 80s Honda V4, not a single issue with cams, valves or any other component. I did install an oil kit in the last V65, if you can change oil and screw on a filter you can install the oil kit, no fabrication needed and it takes very little time.
The valves rarely need adjusting, just a check once in a while and in many many miles, no change.
The guys that started them cold and immediately saw fit to drag the street? Lots of problems.
Look what they became though and the opportunities they gave the company to develop better engines and bikes.
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my 1200 Bandit has been pretty solid with 80k miles and runs like a raped ape. I have a Bandit friend that has 130k+ miles on his.
Mine was the last iteration of all the Japanese air cooled 4 cyl performance machines.
i have one aswell 1998 1200 love the thing , upgraded the Suspension , changed out the cam chain tensioner and that besides regular maintenance no problems at 85000 km ..those old GSXR motors are truly remarkable ...
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Honda. Love and hate. Loved the innovation. But, especially these days, the translation of that into a street bike is a bit weird. These days Honda seems to be a wannabe, not on the leading edge of anything.
I really, really regret not getting a V45 when they came out (to replace my CB500-4). I think the ST was a good bike too, but, a bit heavy. Early Gold Wings were nice. Nowdays not so much.
And I agree on the maintenance problems and difficulties.
I had to work with Honda engineers for a while in a previous job. Their system is horrible. As in, once the design is signed off, it is almost NEVER changed. Even if a newer version is better and cheaper. And complexity is considered a good thing.
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Don't see the people riding Hondas ragging on those who ride MG bikes, at least not like you see in the reverse here.
Maybe that is one reason so may people buy something else, they see the whole my Moto Guzzi has soul or whatever and nothing else does like the kids who wouldn't play with anyone else because they had steelies and cat eyes and everyone else just had regular marbles. So they move on, enjoy why they have and don't look down on what other people ride because everyone is riding a motorcycle.
MG wants to sell more bikes, a lot more. If they didn't they wouldn't have made the Roamer -V9 or MGX-21.
Every motorcycle has character or should or whatever you want to call it.
Some people have figured it out, others never will. Their loss because there is so much more to experience than a Moto Guzzi in motorcycling. The Moto Guzzis are great bikes to ride but it doesn't start and end there.
Honda might have goofed on cams in their V4 engines in the mid 80s but Moto Guzzi, over 20 years later did far worse, some didn't eat themselves, all the engines of a type did. Who has a better time, the owner rebuilding the engine or the one riding?
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Every motorcycle has character or should or whatever you want to call it.
Actually no. Not as the term is colloquially used. Though to be pedantic of course all bikes have some sort of character, just the character of some sucks.
Like black is the absence of color the "character" of some bikes is to be appliance like. To have no more soul than my Keurig or my dishwasher. Bland is not a flavor.
Character, soul, etc. means there's something about the interaction of man and machine that causes the man to anthropomorphize the machine. Something about the way it provides feedback from the motor, the suspension, the feel of the switches or relative feedback of the throttle all combine to speak to the rider.
Not everyone will agree on what speaks to them, but I've observed that far fewer will hear a siren song from a bland appliance and call it character or soul.
But then some people are more boring than others.
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I rode a friends Goldwing for about 10 miles while he road my Daytona and I couldn't wait to get off that bike. It had about as much character as an Accord. He kept it a little longer and then sold it; great bike if you want to ride on the freeway all day but I'd rather drive an Accord in lieu of the Goldwing.
A CBR would probably be more to my liking, but I'd probably kill myself. A 250L would be cool, but used because I would be dropping that thing on a regular basis with that 34 inch seat height.
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Guzzi is that indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town. The arch opposite of Olive Garden.
No matter how many yuppies discover it and want to make it something it's not, it remains the indy hippie Italian cafe in the dodgy part of town, and can never be Olive Garden...
Damn. I'm getting hungry...
At the risk of sounding like some of the Harley rider rhetoric from the past , you either understand this concept , or you don't . Yeah , Guzzi can certainly improve some things , and they seem to be getting there , but let's be honest here fellas , most long term Guzzi riders enjoy being involved in our weird little cult . Honda is Honda , Moto Guzzi is Moto Guzzi .
Dusty
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As a very good friend of mine says on a regular basis: "There's no accounting for some peoples' taste."
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At the risk of sounding like some of the Harley rider rhetoric from the past , you either understand this concept , or you don't . Yeah , Guzzi can certainly improve some things , and they seem to be getting there , but let's be honest here fellas , most long term Guzzi riders enjoy being involved in our weird little cult . Honda is Honda , Moto Guzzi is Moto Guzzi .
Dusty
Yeah, those of us that have been around Guzzi a *lot* longer than N.P. have heard arguments like his for years. It's a different motorcycle designed and built by a different culture, and they haven't changed.. will not change their way of life or doing business. You either take Guzzi for what it is, or move on. <shrug> Honestly, they don't care.. at least that's my take.
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As a very good friend of mine says on a regular basis: "There's no accounting for some peoples' taste."
Just a matter of seasoning.
Todd.
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My favorite thing about my 75 CB550K I had back in the late 70's was the Saint Elmos fire you would get between your legs when you rode in the rain at night. I put on some Accel spark plug wires Dyna coils and that cured that. Also a Yosh cam and a Kerker four into one made it fun.
I remember the review I think it was Cycle, on the Lemans III they said something like " this is a bike Japen would never build" kind of sums it up and we like it that way!
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Actually no. Not as the term is colloquially used. Though to be pedantic of course all bikes have some sort of character, just the character of some sucks.
Like black is the absence of color the "character" of some bikes is to be appliance like. To have no more soul than my Keurig or my dishwasher. Bland is not a flavor.
Character, soul, etc. means there's something about the interaction of man and machine that causes the man to anthropomorphize the machine. Something about the way it provides feedback from the motor, the suspension, the feel of the switches or relative feedback of the throttle all combine to speak to the rider.
Not everyone will agree on what speaks to them, but I've observed that far fewer will hear a siren song from a bland appliance and call it character or soul.
But then some people are more boring than others.
plus 1 :thumb:
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i have one aswell 1998 1200 love the thing , upgraded the Suspension , changed out the cam chain tensioner and that besides regular maintenance no problems at 85000 km ..those old GSXR motors are truly remarkable ...
Mine has a Progressive Rear Shock, Race Tech springs and Gold Valves, Jetted, K&N, Advancer and Micron Slip on.
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Yeah, those of us that have been around Guzzi a *lot* longer than N.P. have heard arguments like his for years. It's a different motorcycle designed and built by a different culture, and they haven't changed.. will not change their way of life or doing business. You either take Guzzi for what it is, or move on. <shrug> Honestly, they don't care.. at least that's my take.
You'd probably yell "get off my lawn"
<shrug>
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Yeah, those of us that have been around Guzzi a *lot* longer than N.P. have heard arguments like his for years. It's a different motorcycle designed and built by a different culture, and they haven't changed.. will not change their way of life or doing business. You either take Guzzi for what it is, or move on. <shrug> Honestly, they don't care.. at least that's my take.
That comes under the "its always been done that way", most often heard when someone dares ask why. There usually is no reason but that is passed off as one. Many of us have heard that in organizations faced with change.
There are the people who long ago got comfortable and maybe even com placement and faced with change are hesitant to examine their own beliefs, it isn't necessary or even beneficial because " its always been done that way".
Moto Guzzi isn't and would jot pay for out of warranty flat tappet repair (including labor". Why? Because its always been done that way and being an Italian company they are just that way.
Well, we sure know that wasn't true. But it wasn't the owners who have been around Guzzi a lot longer than me and get the whole Guzzi cult thing, it was others, new to the game who figured it out.
MG is changing and will continue to change, much to the chagrine of many that have been around Guzzi a long time.
The Honda Gold Wing might be souless to some. To other they are the pinnacle of motorcycle touring innovation. Yet how many Gold Wing owners look down upon someone riding a Moto Guzzi? You'd probably be hard pressed to find them and if they exist you'll probably have to dig long, hard and deep. Here though, it seems to badge of honor.
Every motorcycle his soul or character or personality. Some riders have the ability to connect in some way to any motorcycle while others can manage to find it in only one brand.
Its the same with people, many can find value in all and connect with them on some level while others can't. Neither is right or wrong but mostly neither is wring and that does bother some. That would be the "its always been done that way" group.
Every motorcycle, regardless of who makes it has a soul, character or personality to offer us. Enjoy them all, demean none because we're all different and who are any if us to judge in any way what someone else rides?
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If you got one (Guzzi) and don't like it sell the Damn thing and get on with your life. Pretty simple, and then we wouldn't have to listen to you bitch.
Dean
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Sorta like the joke about the Californians moving out of California to get away from all the BS, moving to Colorado, then immediately working to change Colorado "for the better". Which is actually for the worse, just like the place they came from...
This thread is not about any other brand. This thread is about Moto Guzzi being like Colorado.
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Sorta like the joke about the Californians moving out of California to get away from all the BS, moving to Colorado, then immediately working to change Colorado "for the better". Which is actually for the worse, just like the place they came from...
This thread is not about any other brand. This thread is about Moto Guzzi being like Colorado.
Yep.
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Sorta like the joke about the Californians moving out of California to get away from all the BS, moving to Colorado, then immediately working to change Colorado "for the better". Which is actually for the worse, just like the place they came from...
This thread is not about any other brand. This thread is about Moto Guzzi being like Colorado.
If it is not about other brands, maybe Honda shouldn't be in the thread title.
Bob
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If it is not about other brands, maybe Honda shouldn't be in the thread title.
Bob
Geeze, Louise.... :rolleyes:
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Oh please, the entire thread was setup as a comparison to other brands and analogies for the same.
The thread could have been one two posts long:
1. Moto Guzzi isn't a Honda.
2. No sh*t.
End of thread. If all you want is go along then there you have it, one post saying something and the next one saying yes. Then no one else needs to post anything.
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While looking for some clutch parts I happened upon a description of a starter ring on MG Cycle's site.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4632
STARTER RING GEAR, FLYWHEEL RING GEAR, MANY MODELS 1967 - 2012
"All big twins 700cc, 750cc, 850cc, most 1000cc two valve head models and 1100cc through California Vintage, substitute for 17067900. Not used on small blocks, not used on V11 Sport/LeMans, not used on Centauro/Daytona/1100 Sport/Sport 1100."
Moto Guzzi, like Harley, has an iconic engine configuration. But wow, the same part for 45 years. I haven't done my research, but I think it would be difficult to find a single part that fits the majority of motorcycle models Honda produced.
It seems that companies like Harley and Moto Guzzi benefit from their traditional engines, but that also constrains their development in some ways. Triumph had to die and be resurrected before we saw those lovely water-cooled triples.
What's the iconic Honda engine? Inline 4? Flat 6? Thumper? Their new Africa Twin (which inspires lust in my heart) uses a parallel twin instead of the V configuration of the original Africa Twin.
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Oh please, the entire thread was setup as a comparison to other brands and analogies for the same.
Nope. Went over your head. And some others, too.
The thread was intended to point out that it's getting real old having you, and a few others posting on this forum, constantly bitching and complaining about what Guzzi is not.
:undecided:
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Nope. Went over your head. And some others, too.
The thread was intended to point out that it's getting real old having you, and a few others posting on this forum, constantly bitching and complaining about what Guzzi is not.
:undecided:
Rocker, couldn't have said it better myself.
Dean
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What's the iconic Honda engine? Inline 4? Flat 6? Thumper? Their new Africa Twin (which inspires lust in my heart) uses a parallel twin instead of the V configuration of the original Africa Twin.
erm...... V4......
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Nope. Went over your head. And some others, too.
The thread was intended to point out that it's getting real old having you, and a few others posting on this forum, constantly bitching and complaining about what Guzzi is not.
:undecided:
As much as others get tired of Guzzi is all knowing all great and just suck up what you think could be done better.
They aren't selling 7000 bikes a year because they do everything right.
John Deere makes tractors among other things. They continued to improve them. That is why they sell so.many.
Deere tractors aren't Hondas either but Honda makes tractors. Strange that Deere manages to be top dog over Honda. Must be the improvements, the quality of service and dealer support.
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BROKEN RECORD
BROKEN RECORD
BROKEN RECORD
How many bloody times are you going to say the same stuff over and over!!!
Enough already... :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:
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Seriously, is it any wonder that Pete left? :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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Like oil threads?
Or telling any new members that might not get it that they are morons, akin to being imbiciles, stupid, no nothings because its okay to do that?
This thread was a troll from the start. Why else was it started?
If the OP didn't want controversy or to draw people in then why did he start it?
It was done on purpose. :weiner:
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Oh please, the entire thread was setup as a comparison to other brands and analogies for the same.
The thread could have been one two posts long:
1. Moto Guzzi isn't a Honda.
2. No sh*t.
End of thread. If all you want is go along then there you have it, one post saying something and the next one saying yes. Then no one else needs to post anything.
Oh how wrong you are . This is a thread about outlook and philosophy . Either one gets it , or they don't .
Dusty
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I must have done 250,000 miles on Hondas all year round, all roads, all weathers........
Wonderful bikes, you all should buy a VFR800 and do 5000 miles as fast as you can then you will appreciate them.
They are truly amazing pieces of engineering.
Faster than any Guzzi on any road on any day.
There's still room for a Guzzi in my garage though
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Oh how wrong you are . This is a thread about outlook and philosophy . Either one gets it , or they don't .
Dusty
Speaking of trolls.. :smiley:
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Once again , we have made it pretty clear this isn't an anti Honda thread . Honda doesn't need to be defended being the 800 LB Gorilla in the room . We are trying to point out why some of us are attracted to MG despite their flaws . Kind of like a beautiful woman , often times it is her flaws that make her even more lovely , and trying to change her will destroy the very essence of why she was so damn alluring to begin with .
Dusty
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I think its a great thread ....
I own a 2007 Guzzi Griso , 2005 Ducati Multistrada,1998 Suzuki Bandit, and a 1974 Z1 Kawasaki (since new)
They all mean something special to me ..especially the Z1 as it in many ways has become a friend .
I do ride the Griso the most , then the Duck, the Italian bikes offer more soul and feel for me and I love to just look at the Griso..to me its also art..
The Bandit has been almost everywhere and reliable as a stone axe , it is always ready and willing to do it again the big plus is it has killer midrange power.
they are all different , but they all put a smile on my face and that gentlemen is for me what riding is all about..
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Being the humans that we are, things posted by some are likely to be interpreted differently by others. It doesn't mean those views are wrong, just different. What ever our views are they shouldn't be belittled and to do so is just bad manners. My rule is to treat people in this forum like they are sitting in my garage face to face and I won't say anything in here I wouldn't say in person.
Bob
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What's the iconic Honda engine? Inline 4? Flat 6? Thumper? Their new Africa Twin (which inspires lust in my heart) uses a parallel twin instead of the V configuration of the original Africa Twin.
erm...... V4......
The V4 is certainly the engine configuration that Honda has made over the years that I think has the best character, esp. with an aftermarket exhaust. It is also the current configuration used WSB.
They've had many iconic configurations. In their early racing days, they were innovators of getting a log of HP per CC out of four stroke engine while the other Japnaese companies were concentrating on 2 stroke engines. They did this with high RPMs, and in some cases four valves per cylinder. They also did this by using many cylinders. They had a 125cc five cylinder (RC148) w/ a 21,500 redline and a 250cc six cylinder (RC166), which Mike Hailwood rode to victory at the Isle of Man. The RC166 produced 60 HP at 18,000 RPM, and had a top speed of 150 MPH.
They even had a 50cc twin that made 16 HP at 18,000 RPM.
Now, it is easy to dismiss the engines, as all high-RPM power and no torque, stating that a large, lower RPM engine would be better. That would be true for street machines, but, these were racers, racing in classes of specific displacements, so, this got the most HP per CC.
Another amazing thing is that these ultra-high RPM machines were designed largely without the aid of computers.
Another iconic engine for Honda was the 2 stroke V3 of the NS500R GP bike (and it's street version the NS400R).
Back to street machines, Honda produced the first four stroke twin with a 180 degree crank (CB72, and CB77), which could rev higher lower vibration than traditional 360 degree parallel twins. Counter-rotating balance shafts didn't come along until much later.
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Being the humans that we are, things posted by some are likely to be interpreted differently by others. It doesn't mean those views are wrong, just different. What ever our views are they shouldn't be belittled and to do so is just bad manners. My rule is to treat people in this forum like they are sitting in my garage face to face and I won't say anything in here I wouldn't say in person.
Bob
Manners ? :grin: Seriously , the thread might be viewed as controversial , although a bit of controversy (why do I pronounce that in the English way in my head? :huh:) might not be such a bad thing , it being Winter and all . The members that are seeing this as contentious tend to be that way W/O prodding , and that isn't always bad either . The deal is , being told how wrong we are for understanding the reality of Guzzi ownership does get a bit old , we are dealing with an Italian made product after all , and applying American sensibilities to a MC manufactured in Italy seems pointless. Kind of like trying to get someone born in Japan to understand why Harley Davidsons are the way they are . Now , certainly there are HD enthusiasts in Japan , and pretty much anywhere that there are MC enthusiasts , but my guess is that say a German riding a Harley accepts there limitations , and just "gets" it .
Dusty
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Manners ? :grin: Seriously , the thread might be viewed as controversial , although a bit of controversy (why do I pronounce that in the English way in my head? :huh:) might not be such a bad thing , it being Winter and all . The members that are seeing this as contentious tend to be that way W/O prodding , and that isn't always bad either . The deal is , being told how wrong we are for understanding the reality of Guzzi ownership does get a bit old , we are dealing with an Italian made product after all , and applying American sensibilities to a MC manufactured in Italy seems pointless. Kind of like trying to get someone born in Japan to understand why Harley Davidsons are the way they are . Now , certainly there are HD enthusiasts in Japan , and pretty much anywhere that there are MC enthusiasts , but my guess is that say a German riding a Harley accepts there limitations , and just "gets" it .
I have understood the deal about this thread from it's onset, but I also understand why this thread went into the crapper like it did.
Bob
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I posted this nearly ten years ago (it might have been wildgoose.com or perhaps the forum that was in play before this one). It is still appropriate today:
July 2006
…We hold these Guzzi truths to be self-evident.
There have been a number of recent folks on the forum who are interested in buying a first Guzzi, or are fairly new to ownership. My intent with this list is to be straightforward, without any sarcasm or hyperbole. We hold these truths that…
1. Moto Guzzi is not popular.
This means that if you buy a new Guzzi, you should not expect to sell it immediately. And, if you do, you should not expect to recover your original purchase price or anything close to it. You’ll find that long-term Guzzi owners buy their bikes to ride and give no consideration to resale value. If you put 150,000 miles (or more) on a motorcycle, it hardly matters what it is worth, anyway.
2. Moto Guzzi engines take longer to break in.
While some might joke that their bike is hardly broken in at 50,000 miles, the actual number is probably around 10,000 miles, with 20,000 miles being the outer limit. With anything below 3,000 miles you should still expect things to run better in time. This is not really a claim for any inherent quality of the engine (it’s more likely evidence of the reverse), but it is the way it is.
3. A Moto Guzzi is not fast.
If 130 mph is scary-fast for you, then a Moto Guzzi can be made to go fast enough. But, there many much smaller motorcycles out there that can run circles around most any stock Moto Guzzi. A Moto Guzzi is plenty fast for what its owners want. Forget horsepower for a moment; the power delivery and overall feel of a Guzzi engine is what makes it enjoyable. A Guzzi is a very satisfying motorcycle, but if you want to win at the drag strip, or run with an R1, do not buy a Moto Guzzi.
4. There are not very many dealers.
If you expect to find as many dealers as with Honda, then you will be very disappointed. What Guzzi does have, though, is a level of enthusiasm that makes up for some of this. Overall, the Guzzi dealers are the best bunch of people you’d ever want to meet in a motorcycle shop. It’s not likely that anybody becomes a Guzzi dealer with the intent of getting rich. Consequently, they’re far more likely to be enthusiasts, just like you, who are in it for the love of the sport.
5. Parts are not that difficult to find.
While there are few dealers, if you are not close to one there are several very good shops that will be more than willing to work with you for the parts you need via mail-order. It may be surprising to know that compared to an equivalent year Honda (for instance) an older Guzzi will be much easier to get parts for.
6. The support network is amazingly strong.
You’d be hard pressed to find a more eager and helpful bunch of owners willing to help you with any problem you have. There are many long-term Guzzi owners who are fanatical about the brand, and will do what they can to keep yours going. Is there any other brand that has the equivalent of Dave Richardson’s book “Guzziology�
7. A Guzzi is easy to work on for most of the things that need working.
Guzzi parts are robust and easy to work on. It’s not hard to get to most of what you’ll need to be working on, and the parts are generally well enough built that there are few throw-away things on the motorcycle.
8. The Factory and Distributor support is not large.
This is a small company. The total Guzzi sales in the United States are likely exceeded by just a couple of Honda dealerships. You will not find a multi-story office complex full of people in suits all working for Moto Guzzi. You’ll find a handful of people doing their best.
9. A Guzzi is reliable.
If you’re squeamish about taking this obscure motorcycle on a long trip, don’t be. These are very reliable motorcycles.
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Thanks for that, Daniel. All very true then, and now, of course.
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Or HD , or Toyota , or McDonalds , and thank goodness for that .
Dusty
Next contestant on mastermind.....Dust y. Specialist subject.....the bleeding obvious.
Ciao
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Next contestant on mastermind.....Dust y. Specialist subject.....the bleeding obvious.
Ciao
Well , one would think that is obvious ...
Dusty
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I love threads like this--all over the map.
The subject line states that "Moto Guzzi is not Honda." Later it is explained that this thread is actually about "Moto Guzzi being like Colorado."
So logic tells us that Honda is not like Colorado. I'm not sure what that means, but I think I can prove it.
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I love threads like this--all over the map.
The subject line states that "Moto Guzzi is not Honda." Later it is explained that this thread is actually about "Moto Guzzi being like Colorado."
So logic tells us that Honda is not like Colorado. I'm not sure what that means, but I think I can prove it.
Isn't there Chevy Colorado ...
Dusty
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O K Lemme see I think I got this,
Honda = Chevy
Guzzi = Colorado
Did I Win???
Paul B :boozing:
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O K Lemme see I think I got this,
Honda = Chevy
Guzzi = Colorado
Did I Win???
Paul B :boozing:
Close enough , just don't expect a cash prize , it turns out WG isn't rolling in dough . LOL
Dusty
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O K Lemme see I think I got this,
Honda = Chevy
Guzzi = Colorado
Did I Win???
Paul B :boozing:
Proceed to the nearest "Green Cross" to claim your prize. But wait, Durango is in Colorado... isn't that a Dodge? But the "highest" point in the 48-states is in California... This thread is getting confusing.
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Sorta like the joke about the Californians moving out of California to get away from all the BS, moving to Colorado, then immediately working to change Colorado "for the better". Which is actually for the worse, just like the place they came from...
This thread is not about any other brand. This thread is about Moto Guzzi being like Colorado.
Well I have California and Colorado parked in my garage and it's all fries and gravy . There's a Yamaha too so I guess that can be Oregon...
I just love motorcycles.. Why all the bitching? I don't want a pickle. Just to ride my motorcicle... :whip2:
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Ya kno. . .
Back in '71 when I took up motorcycling Honda was very different from today's company wearing that name. Soichiro San was still alive and setting the tone for the company. Back then motorcycles were still generally close to their roots of being cheap practical transportation for those lacking the funds to buy a car. Honda was still a company levering its way into the US market. The CB 750 had not been out for long. I recall reading of Honda's "Horsepower Book", armed with which the engineers at the firm could calculate a cylinder's torque and horsepower curves from that cylinder's specifications. Multiply that cylinder as needed to attain desired power. I also recall reading that for the first win at Isle of Mann, the riders wanted an extra gear in the box as they practiced. Engineers at the TT called Japan, the team at the factory got to work, new cassettes were shipped and the bike raced with the new transmission. Honda was a company unlike any other company of any kind anywhere on Earth.
Everything has changed. Motorcycles are now covered under the word, "powersports" and aimed at people with cars and RVs and personal watercraft. . . Human inspiration in engineering has been replaced with computer based design and endless refinement. Amid data mining and CNC machining and powder metallurgy, and a hundred other things everything has changed. Honda no longer stands head and shoulders above other makers of motorcycles. Honda is no longer a company set apart from the establishment; they are the establishment.
I guess this must be okay. The most recent Honda I owned was not as inspired nor as thorough a piece of engineering as were my CB 100, CB 350G, and S2 CB 750F. I miss Honda.
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No doubt 30 years from now, people will say they missed the Honda of the early to mid 2000s. In all likelihood, there will be a Honda making motorcycles then.
If others besides HD will exist is more of a question than a certainly.
We tend to judge the present by the memories of the past, often forgetting that the past wasn't as great as we remember. Points and condensers might have provided some satisfaction of accomplishment when that Kawasaki triple ran just right, the wail of one screaming down the street made blood run hot. That same experienced seemed a long ways away when the thing would lope along on two cylinders firing and the dealer could even figure it out because it was designed in, fixed later by the factory.
All things change, embracing the present and looking forward to the future can reap as many rewards as any nostalgia we remember. Suspensions that were little more than springs and oil in a tube pale to what we have today. The buckboard ride is remembered fondly but few want to have it today except for the memory rides.
True, the past of motorcycling was great, anyone riding more than 30 years ago has memories of what they consider to be real motorcycles.
30 years ago there were those who said the same thing, that the BMW of the late 40s running on sihponed fuel from depots at the air fields was great. No helmet, gal on the back, yeah it was great and anything Honda had, including 6 cylinder bikes with pencil small pistons was worthless no matter how fast they were.
When Honda was making those bikes we now recall with breathless nostalgia we forget that in the then present who was there saying motorcycling had lost its way and that the new generation was clueless? History repeats itself.
Motorcycling is evolving rapidly, it needs to and every year something better than last year is made. We can refuse to see it or appreciate it but it matters not, change happens and we can experience it or deny it and long for what was.
We can stop ourselves from looking forward but can't stop it from coming. There are more people buying motorcycles now than long ago. As the analogy goes, 3 million coyotes can't be wrong. (or similar)
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That is exactly correct. Nothing stays in place.
The one thing that can stay in place, and often does judging by the continual interest in classic vehicles and retro styling and antique stores is the subjective feeling one may have for stuff from an era.
I find that I have that subjective wanting for simpler times of simpler machines. I am hugely impressed by things such as Yamaha's R1, and its abilities just as I am impressed by Airbus aircraft. Still, there may be something to analog tuning of a radio - especially when cruising a band to see what is there. And there just might be something to a bike lacking rider aids.
i am glad that there is a choice.
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Outstanding :thumb: The appreciation of choice. They are all motorcycles, just different.
:1: on dial analogue radios BTW.
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Hot dang! Even analog radio appreciation. I knew I belonged here. I may never have the "Guzzi" part, but probably that "Wild" is open to me.
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Damn,
This thread has made me really regret not taking that Honda Deauville for a test ride....
Now I'll never know what I'm not missing?
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Damn,
This thread has made me really regret not taking that Honda Deauville for a test ride....
Now I'll never know what I'm not missing?
A fella came by the shop one day and all but forced me to ride his Rune. I hoisted a leg to shut his pie-hole only - I thought he was anglin' for a deal on a rifle.
No, he was one of those "kool-aide drinkers", you know the type; try my MAC, ya gotta get a Keurig... George Foremans are the only way to get kielbasas right!...
OK, full disclosure, I'm 2/3 of those ^^^ goofs.
Anyhow, man alive was I surprised. Since then, no matter how ridiculous any given Honda offering looks, I give it the benefit of the doubt.
Todd.
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Or HD , or Toyota , or McDonalds , and thank goodness for that .
Dusty
So you enjoy what you you perceive as an eccentric, inferior on paper but philosophically superior motorcycles and its community?
Good on you.
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It's all good as long as you have a wife permit. :evil:
ZZ
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No, Guzzi isnt Honda and Honda isnt Guzzi. Its why I own both..