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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roach Carver on February 07, 2016, 07:38:16 PM

Title: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 07, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
Here's my problem. I'm building a guzzi for my wife. It's a v700 with an ambo engine. I ordered the replacement cylinders because I'm a loving husband. Went to install and realized one rod was very tight on the crank. Bearing was galled but crank is "fair". Rod on the little end has a bit of play. I have an 850 crank and rods. Should I tear it down or are they different parts altogether. Thanks! Also any Ducati experts or amateurs here? I have a 1975 860 gt with ignition problems.😉
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 07, 2016, 07:48:42 PM
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/71cb750/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsugsr1vlm.jpeg) (http://s130.photobucket.com/user/71cb750/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsugsr1vlm.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 07, 2016, 08:01:12 PM
Here's my problem. I'm building a guzzi for my wife. It's a v700 with an ambo engine. I ordered the replacement cylinders because I'm a loving husband. Went to install and realized one rod was very tight on the crank. Bearing was galled but crank is "fair". Rod on the little end has a bit of play. I have an 850 crank and rods. Should I tear it down or are they different parts altogether. Thanks! Also any Ducati experts or amateurs here? I have a 1975 860 gt with ignition problems.😉

The 850 crank has a 78 mm stroke and won't work with Ambassador pistons.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 07, 2016, 08:08:16 PM
Thanks. I figured it was a long shot
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: oldbike54 on February 07, 2016, 08:10:11 PM
 Hi Brad  :laugh:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 07, 2016, 08:23:58 PM
Hey Dusty! I keep reading about the camp out. Me and the wife have to make it some time.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: mtiberio on February 07, 2016, 08:37:13 PM
Grind the crank. Bush the rods
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 07, 2016, 08:41:46 PM
Grind the crank. Bush the rods

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 27, 2016, 09:22:30 AM
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/71cb750/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqznzgzwr.jpeg) (http://s130.photobucket.com/user/71cb750/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqznzgzwr.jpeg.html)

Cranks out. Found a lot of non factory bolts, crap washers and other things that lead me to believe someone has been into this thing already. One thing I noticed was a good bit of play from front to back on the crank with the front and rear bearing in place. Is this normal? Or did the previous guy omit some shims or something to control the end play.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: canuck750 on February 27, 2016, 09:28:10 AM
Even after a regrind with new crank bearings and big end rod shells there is a lot of end play, once the flywheel and clutch are bolted on, timing gears et all, it will be fine.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 27, 2016, 09:38:53 AM
Thanks! I've never seen anything that loose 😀
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: oldbike54 on February 27, 2016, 09:40:59 AM
 Deuce , you had better hurry up , we want to see that thing at Cedar Vale  :bike-037:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 27, 2016, 09:43:28 AM
One thing I noticed was a good bit of play from front to back on the crank with the front and rear bearing in place. Is this normal? Or did the previous guy omit some shims or something to control the end play.

Crank end float is controlled by the crank sprocket. It must be on and torqued to spec. before end float is checked. Same with the cam - the sprocket must be on and tightened down.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 27, 2016, 09:50:56 AM
Thanks Charlie!!
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 27, 2016, 10:20:00 AM
Is there a preferred machine shop in the Arkansas Missouri area to turn this crank?
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: oldbike54 on February 27, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
Is there a preferred machine shop in the Arkansas Missouri area to turn this crank?

 You might contact NWA Streetworks in Siloam and ask them . Shouldn't be anything tricky about turning a ditch pump crank . Oh , maybe the boys at Bentonville BMW could recommend a machinist.

 Dusty
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 27, 2016, 10:37:13 AM
I've used Paul's machine shop in Springdale before but they are far from a motorcycle centric machine shop. More of an anything goes machine shop. Thanks Dusty.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: BMCMOTO on February 27, 2016, 04:52:50 PM
Any qualified crank grinder can grind a Guzzi crank.  A qualified crank grinder is one who has ground a crank previously, can read and follow instructions etc.  Critical areas on Guzzi cranks are the fillet radii at the crankpin, crank weight juncture.  You must supply this information and the grind diameter from the appropriate service manual.  The fillets are critical, if needs be you do the math for those incapable of using the metric system of measurement.  Please do not ask how I came to know these things, it was very expensive!!

Brian
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 29, 2016, 09:46:38 AM
I am sending the crank and rods to Harper's for eval and machining. I am curious what 850 parts are interchangeable. I have an 850 parts motor. My concern is the 750 cam looks to have a good bit of wear too so I would like to know if I can use the block and cam from the 850. The 750 block has some noticeable wear on the cam journals in the block. I think the oil pump is interchangeable so I am going to look at that as well. I think this all went south when some moron glopped ultra copper all over the pan gasket. Thanks
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 29, 2016, 10:00:10 AM
An 850 gear-driven-cam case would be directly interchangeable with the Ambassador case, if a later chain-driven-cam case, the oil pump location is slightly different. Chain drive started with (Eldorado) engine number 58532.

Also, the hole for the distributor base is larger on the 850 case - you'd need the Eldo distributor base or to fit a reducer ring like Guzzi did on the last of the Ambassadors.

Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on February 29, 2016, 11:47:50 AM
Thanks Charlie!
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: bigbikerrick on February 29, 2016, 04:03:47 PM
Charlie, It never ceases to amaze me what a wealth of loop frame knowledge you are! I see how you are eager to humbly help people on a daily basis, with accurate, correct information, and that is awesome. I think back to years ago, when I was asking.... dumb questions like "do I really have to change out my chrome bores, when some folks have run them over 100K miles" ....you have the patience to take the time , and explain everything, options available, and useful links, etc. I dont see how you do it sometimes....
I've seen this over, and over again,you helping new guys, never being sarcastic, or with an annoyed "tone" in any way.
My hat is off to you, Charlie! I just want to take this opportunity to thank you, you are a first class assett to the Guzzi community!  :thumb: :thumb: :bow: :bow:
Rick.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 29, 2016, 04:38:37 PM
Thank you for the kind words, Rick. I try to help where I can. Probably spend much more time than I should on various forums doing so, but it all seems to come back to me as "good karma". Many here have helped me with advice, sent me parts, etc., so it's just my way of "paying it forward".
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on March 14, 2016, 10:20:20 AM
Well, here's where I am at. I think I have a good 850 block. Cam and lifters looked good out of donor motor. I bought an extra set of rods and sent crank and rods up to Harper's Moto guzzi for evaluation last week. I just spoke with Curtis today and hopefully they will have them checked out in the next day or two. I'm am chomping at the bit to get this thing back together. Riding season is here...
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: jbell on March 15, 2016, 09:58:47 PM
I'm nowhere near expert status, but do have a running '75 860GT.  What's going on with yours?
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on March 15, 2016, 10:23:42 PM
  I am probably just as good as any other crank on this forum.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on March 16, 2016, 07:54:28 AM
I'm nowhere near expert status, but do have a running '75 860GT.  What's going on with yours?

Well looks like I am going through the whole motor but I think I am in the right track. Just going to keep throwing money at it until I can't afford to sell it.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on March 16, 2016, 07:55:54 AM
No truer statement ever  :laugh:

 
 Hurry up Deuce , promised the Cedar Vale bunch you would make an appearance on this thing along with Uno on his er , unrestored loop   :bike-037:

  Dusty

I am counting it down in hopes that I can make it. Between this bike and the Ducati I am working on I am getting my rear handed to me.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: jbell on March 16, 2016, 07:59:29 PM
Well looks like I am going through the whole motor but I think I am in the right track. Just going to keep throwing money at it until I can't afford to sell it.

Well, with the 860 GT, it won't take much to reach that threshold.  Of all the Ducatis in all the world, our 860's seem the least loved.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: canuck750 on March 16, 2016, 08:08:57 PM
Well looks like I am going through the whole motor but I think I am in the right track. Just going to keep throwing money at it until I can't afford to sell it.

Does that ever sound familiar! :laugh:
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on March 16, 2016, 09:01:45 PM
Well, with the 860 GT, it won't take much to reach that threshold.  Of all the Ducatis in all the world, our 860's seem the least loved.
I was talking about the guzzi. I pray I don't have to open up the Ducati motor and yes. The 860 gt is not a sought after Ducati but I bought it at a great price.
Title: Re: Is one crank as good as another
Post by: Roach Carver on March 19, 2016, 06:02:29 PM
Ngc. My Ducati motor is clean ready to go back in the frame when I get it back from the painter next week. (http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/71cb750/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdasoe1kx.jpeg) (http://s130.photobucket.com/user/71cb750/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdasoe1kx.jpeg.html)

Now for my progress on the guzzi. Sent the crank and two sets of rods to Harper's for evaluation. Curtis was very helpful even with their web site issues. In his opinion the crank and rods will require more money to rehab then they are worth. He gave me an estimate for a setup they have on the shelf. I am scrounging up the money to order what he has I suppose. I just want this thing back together so I can sweep the garage floor.