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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jose Mendez on February 11, 2016, 10:47:53 PM
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Planning our trip to Italy in September 2016. My wife has a niece that is getting married in Cetraro which is south along the western coast line. Kids these days.
We will have 14 days to travel and would like to see as much as we can while working our way up to Venice. Right now Naples, Roma, Florence, Venice, Milan and Turin is on our list. We might have to add a few more days in doing the math.
Anyway, I always travel on a budget but this being my first trip to Italy (Europe), I am really out of my league. Looking for reasonable accommodations and those little hide-outs where the food is exquisite. Chime in with your suggestions. Thanks!
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Milan - go see the Domo plus the shopping arcade opposite - all designer brands so bring a fat cheque book!
Also, if you're as far up, as Milan then Como Lake and Mandelo del Lario is an hour train ride away
IMO most food is good - just try and avoid the touristy places with pictures!
Re accommodation this is worth a look https://www.airbnb.co.uk/ (https://www.airbnb.co.uk/)
We're driving to Barcelona in May and its highly likely we'll use Airbnb to find the accommodation
Are you driving or going by train?
I have lots of fond memories of driving an Alfa GTV from the UK to Naples and the further south you get the more you have to keep your wits about you.
Don't let that put you off though as on the whole they're good drivers just fast, tailgate you and squeeze though very small gaps!
Have fun
Tris
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Cetraro Italy is WAAy down there on the foot of the boot in what the Ialians call the "mezzogiorno." That part of Italy is more from the northern germanic influence of Austria, Switzerland, Germany that spillover and affect the northern part of Italy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy
Food and lodging should be very affordable down there. Food should be mind-blowing good.
Some people would say the southern part, where you are going, is much more the REAL Italy.
You have unlimited sightseeing possibilities.
You will be very close, an easy drive, to Sicily. Palermo and the surrounding area there is supposed to be fantastic.
Also east of Cetraro is Brindisi. Brendisi was a main port used by the Romans to access their holdings in the middle east and beyond. It was connected to Rome by the historic Appian Way roadway built 300 years before Christ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appian_Way
This is the same road that the Apostle Paul took (from the Naples area) as described in the New Testament Book of Acts.
I have been on parts of this road that currently remain intact.
There's a lot to see between Cetraro and the northern Lake Country. Naples, Pompeii, Rome, the Fortress town of Siena, Tuscany, Pisa, Cinque Terre, on and on. You'll have a tough choice to decide what to pass over.
Trekking all the way up to Venice is a long haul.
Venice is very attractive, for sure. West of there, on the way to Lakes Como and Guarda, you'll pass through Verona. The Roman coliseum there is worth a stop. You can also visit the (mocked-up) site of Romeo and Juliet's little window affair.
The drives around the lakes are beautiful If you do make Mandello del Lario, check ahead on the access times for the Guzzi factory visits. The museum is opened only a short time every day.
Milan is a huge metropolitan city much like others around the world. You'll eat up time in traffic there.
2 weeks in Italy! Ahhhh, the possibilities are endless.
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Taking a deep breath, I'm going to ramble...
September is an excellent time to visit--the weather is still warm, but all the tourists from around the world have gone home.
AirBnB is a great resource. Also look at Agriturismi, which are like rural bed and breakfasts (likely they are almost all on AirBnB anyway these days). I've had really good luck with them, though don't expect to walk to the train station. You might be out in the country.
People love to hate Rome, but I just love it. It's loud, dirty, historical, beautiful, crowded... perfect. Spend an afternoon at Hadrian's Villa (Villa Adriana) and the Tivoli fountains which are a few miles east of Rome. The Vatican Museums are worth the long line, but you must devote an entire day to them. Catholicism not required--it's a testament to Western civilization, not necessarily religion.
Though Florence is, of course, Florence, I like somewhat smaller towns in Tuscany like the walled city of Monteriggioni, or San Gimignano with its towers, and Siena, with its amazing duomo. We had a wonderful stay at the Lupinari villas, in Bucine, near Arezzo just off the A1. www.lupinari.com.
When in the north, make the trip over to the Republic of San Marino for a day/afternoon. It's like a storybook country that fits on top of a mountain. Though closer to Florence as the crow flies, it's actually easier to get to from Bologna. Because, you know, mountains.
Pisa isn't worth the trip. Sorry, Leaning Tower fans.
With the introduction of the Euro many years ago, prices in Italy doubled overnight. There are few bargains. Even that Canali suit, sewn by Chinese slave laborers in Camorra-operated sweatshops outside Naples, will cost the same in Italy as it does at your suburban USA department store.
In summary, don't rush. Better to spend an extra day somewhere, see the deeper side, and enjoy yourself than turn it into a Gotta See Everything death march.
PS as my username implies, I'm a Sicily-o-phile. The food, scenery and women are better than anywhere else in Italy--the influence of Arab, Norman, Phoenecian, Greek etc conquerors are everywhere. However, you can't assume everyone speaks English, as you can in Rome and north. Avoid Palermo if you don't have a friend there. It is one of the greatest cities in Europe, but without local guidance you'd think it's a Third World dump, which is unfair.
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You can't see it all in two weeks. Not even the highlights. Stop trying. Find a few things and go for quality time. I've been to Italy 20 times and am always still amazed. If you go up the west coast, hit the historic sites of Pestum and Pompei. Everyone knows Pompei. Pestum has better Greek temples than any in Greece! If you go to the east coast, try some of Puglia in the boot heel, perhaps Alberobello. The Marche in mid-coast is more authentic than the upscale Tuscany of the west. Hit the National Moto Museum in Rimini. Venice is like a rats maze. You will be instantly disoriented. Takes three days before you really get your bearings and can wander around with only a few referrals to the map. Hope you are on trains. Driving an especially parking are not for the whimpy. Eat in small, local, back alley restaurants. Stick with the house wine. Learn to enjoy the tiny cups of espresso.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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In Florence....
This is a very well done and fairly small museum worth seeing if you like science. 2.5 hours.
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/musei/History_of_Science_museum.html
The Duomo is worth seeing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Cathedral
The statue of David..... http://www.museumsinflorence.com/musei/David_by_michelangelo.html
The Ponte Vecchio.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponte_Vecchio
When I go again I want to go here..... http://www.museumsinflorence.com/musei/Leonardo-museum.html
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Jose,
I'm happy for you! I was there on the cheap 52 years ago courtesy of Uncle Sams Canoe Club. Still remember how good the food was.
Enjoy,
Tex
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I really like Balzano. Quaint, good food, and very scenic. Not too far from Moto Guzzi.
http://www.bolzano-bozen.it/en/bolzano.htm
Or Sept. 4 is the F1 race in Monza just outside of Milan - great event.
Then head to Maranello to the Ferrari Museum :thumb:
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If you're staying near Naples I'd recommend a visit to Sorrento, Positano and the Amalfi coast.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino
You can go into a small town go to a bar and find a family to spend the night with.
If your interested in how Italians live.
you have plenty of time to learn Italian.
They will help you IF you put in an effort to speak their language !!!!
Laugh at yourself and they will laugh with you !!!!
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You can't see it all in two weeks. Not even the highlights. Stop trying. Find a few things and go for quality time. I've been to Italy 20 times and am always still amazed. If you go up the west coast, hit the historic sites of Pestum and Pompei. Everyone knows Pompei. Pestum has better Greek temples than any in Greece! If you go to the east coast, try some of Puglia in the boot heel, perhaps Alberobello. The Marche in mid-coast is more authentic than the upscale Tuscany of the west. Hit the National Moto Museum in Rimini. Venice is like a rats maze. You will be instantly disoriented. Takes three days before you really get your bearings and can wander around with only a few referrals to the map. Hope you are on trains. Driving an especially parking are not for the whimpy. Eat in small, local, back alley restaurants. Stick with the house wine. Learn to enjoy the tiny cups of espresso.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
You are getting some great advice, but it is probably hard to digest it all. I quote Patrick here because he has some important key points and good advice. Here is my advice.
1. Don't try to do it all. Even if you think you won't ever get back. Spend some quality time, it's all good.
2. Your planned stops have 2 problems. They are too far apart, and they are all big cities (except Venice). Too much ground to cover and cities are time sinks. Hard to get around, park, find what you are looking for, etc. Sure, the cities have some Great history/ruins, but you should go for some balance at least.
3. Ask yourself this, When traveling anywhere, what do you like the most? History? Meeting people? Museums? Quiet time relaxing with a drink? Once you figure that out, consider where you will more likely find what you like. Will it be in the cities, small towns, countryside?
4. Be aware that some of the best Roman and Greek ruins, beautiful coastline, food, and people can be found in small towns and areas like the Amalfi Coast or the central mountains of Abruzzo, Umbria and the Marche.
Should be a great trip. I haven't been to Italy 20 time like Patrick but I have been to Europe about that many times and Italy is my favorite. Enjoy!
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Hello,
That is going to be a nice trip!
I'm from Milan, so I can add some suggestions for the city. Among your destinations it's probably the least interesting and a couple of days will probably suffice - as others have said, these cities are pretty distant from each other!
PS - if you don't have a car, you can consider a fast train. If you book way in advance it might be not too expensive. Two companies run this service (as far as I know): http://www.trenitalia.com/ (http://www.trenitalia.com/) and http://www.italotreno.it/en (http://www.italotreno.it/en).
On Driving:
driving is a curious experience for foreigners, there's little discipline. It tends to get more messy in Rome and Naples - it's going to be fun!
So, Milan:
As others said, visit the Dome and the gallery and the nearby area. The best thing you can do is going on top of the dome (it is quite cheap). Castello sforzesco is a short walk away, too.
San bernardino alle ossa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_alle_Ossa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_alle_Ossa) is a curious little church a few minutes away,
Make sure you visit the Darsena and the Navigli: it's a pretty area and there are several places to have drinks in the evening. It has been recently renewed and it will be good. It was the former "port" of the city.
Note: the "aperitivo". It is a sort of recent tradition in Milan: you get a cocktail and you have free buffet (almost everyday after 6.30/7). It is a good way to save some money and some places have a good food offer. Navigli are getting more expensive - it used to be 5 euros!
From the navigli it's a short walk to the "parco delle basiliche" and "colonne di san lorenzo".
If you are into art, you can see the "last supper" - you definitely have to book in advance http://www.vivaticket.it/index.php?&change_language=1 (http://www.vivaticket.it/index.php?&change_language=1) . there are several nice exhibitions sites if you fancy (just let me know).
I would suggest also a walk around Brera - it used to be the "artist's neighborhood", now it's definitely a posh place.
Around Porta Venezia tube stop there's Via Malpighi and the surrounding area featuring some nice liberty buildings.
The important things.. food and drinks:
Milan is expensive, and some of my favourite places closed down in the last few years. Also, I would not send you to my local bars, they probably have less of a turisty appeal! however:
- Make sure you try the "negroni": a good and rather strong cocktail
- If you are around the dome, you can grab some panzerotti to go at "Luini". It's reasonably cheap, they are good and a little piece of history.
- At lunch, in the navigli area, you can have an inexpensive meal at "trattoria la madonnina". Decent food, good atmosphere, good prices.
Accomodation:
here I cannot help. I would say to avoid the northern part of the city, but chances are that it's just because I am less familiar with it. Try to be near a tube stop or a tram line that heads to the centre, and you'll be fine.
Transport:
You can rely on public transport in Milan. Tickets are (or used to be) 1,50 euros for 75 minuts on transport (including one trip on the tube). You can have full day tickets.
There's an ok night service, for the map see here: http://www.atm.it/it/ViaggiaConNoi/PublishingImages/mappa%20rete%20notte.jpg (http://www.atm.it/it/ViaggiaConNoi/PublishingImages/mappa%20rete%20notte.jpg)
On the rest:
I find myself more at ease in Siena than in Florence. It might be tricky to fit it in your itinerary.
On your way to Venice, Vicenza, Padova, Verona offer some really beautiful spots,
If you go to Naples, you MUST go to Pompei. It's worth it, and decades long bad management and lack of funds it's causing the site to slowly collapse. I cannot stress it enough: you should visit it before it vanishes!
Hope this helps!
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You can't see it all in two weeks. Not even the highlights. Stop trying. Find a few things and go for quality time. I've been to Italy 20 times and am always still amazed. If you go up the west coast, hit the historic sites of Pestum and Pompei. Everyone knows Pompei. Pestum has better Greek temples than any in Greece! If you go to the east coast, try some of Puglia in the boot heel, perhaps Alberobello. The Marche in mid-coast is more authentic than the upscale Tuscany of the west. Hit the National Moto Museum in Rimini. Venice is like a rats maze. You will be instantly disoriented. Takes three days before you really get your bearings and can wander around with only a few referrals to the map. Hope you are on trains. Driving an especially parking are not for the whimpy. Eat in small, local, back alley restaurants. Stick with the house wine. Learn to enjoy the tiny cups of espresso.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
I totally agree with Patrick. If you have your destinations determined don't add...subtract. You will enjoy yourself much more if you don't feel pressed for time...more than not the best times had are unplanned.
My wife and I spent month in Italia this summer... days in the North and 20 days in Sicily. We flew from Bergamo (near Milan) to Catania (East coast of Sicily) so we could spend the most time where we wanted to be rather than driving or on a train. airfare within Europe is dirt cheap.
We have been to Italy many times...the best single source for information besides a local contact (sounds like you may have that with the wedding going on...ask the locals where to go and what to eat) is Rick Steve's Italy...find it used on amazon it will be the best 10ish bucks you ever spent. Go through it for the destinations you have in mind...Rick does a lot of on the ground research for his books and they are excellent.
Great that you are starting in Calabria working north...Pompeii is an absolute must. Every where you stop will be an adventure...one of my favorites Antico Forno in Civitta de bagnoregio
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag132/fvdituri/460-Civita-di-Bagnoregio1_zpsc8rx9rnu.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/fvdituri/media/460-Civita-di-Bagnoregio1_zpsc8rx9rnu.jpg.html)
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If you're staying near Naples I'd recommend a visit to Sorrento, Positano and the Amalfi coast.
Agree! Don't forget a day ferry to Capri. Naples sucks, been there three times and can't recall one thing worth seeing.
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I am envious!
My wife and I are hoping to go Italy for our 20th anniversary, probably this spring. We both think it would be great fun to travel by train and Vespa. We shall see.
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B&B's are always the best choice both for cost and getting to meet the people. Food no matter where you go will almost always be good and I found the smaller family run places are the best.
Like Patrick noted, two weeks is not much time so find a place you really wanna see and explore. It's an awesome place Italy but if you try to cram everything into a short time , you miss a lot, planes Don't stop flying when you leave and September is far enough away to plan your trip, use the web , Google can be your friend when it comes to planning a trip to Italy. Decide what is close by and enjoy!
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Planning our trip to Italy in September 2016.
We will have 14 days to travel and would like to see as much as we can ... We might have to add a few more days in doing the math.
Anyway, I always travel on a budget but this being my first trip to Italy (Europe)...
If this is your first trip to Europe, there's lots to be said for experiencing different parts of Italy during the time you have available. Italy is a relatively young country, and it is entirely arguable that it has yet to become a country. There are huge cultural and culinary differences between the regions that were quilted to make up what is now called Italy. A diversity that is well worth experiencing.
One example. Giorgio Locatelli, an important chef from northern Italy who has written two excellent books on the "country's" cuisine, says that his family never ate pasta when he was growing up. It simply wasn't part of the local cooking. Similarly, if you go from northern Italy to Sicily (which is, by the way, semi-autonomous), you are in a different cultural and culinary universe.
If you go to Italy, it's well worth reading a good book on how recent a country it is, how artificial it is culturally and how difficult it continues to be to create a national identity.
My only other advice is to rent a car instead of relying on public transportation, especially the aggravating, useless Italian train system.
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PS as my username implies, I'm a Sicily-o-phile. The food, scenery and women are better than anywhere else in Italy--the influence of Arab, Norman, Phoenecian, Greek etc conquerors are everywhere. However, you can't assume everyone speaks English, as you can in Rome and north. Avoid Palermo if you don't have a friend there. It is one of the greatest cities in Europe, but without local guidance you'd think it's a Third World dump, which is unfair.
Given Jose's plans, I think that Sicily is impractical. But I sure love it, and September/October is grape and olive harvest time. Plus, the tourists are gone by labour day, and you can shoot a canon through the place in terms of tourists. On the downside, the land is parched - not like the spring, when Sicily is a riot of colour.
Interesting what you say about Palermo. I think that anyone visiting there should read Leoluca Orlando's book, Fighting the Mafia and Renewing Sicilian Culture (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0049H9BWS/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1455426574&sr=8-1). It explains a lot, including the Mafia's role in destroying important parts of Palermo's architectural heritage, and it's inspirational.
A special word about Trapani. I haven't been (I spend my time in the southeast - Noto, Ragusa, Modica, Scicli, Ispica, etc.), but my Sicilian friends keep telling me that I must go there.
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PU some Italian. Simple to learn. One word that you might like "pensione". Of course, swearing in Italian helps. :thumb:
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Agree! Don't forget a day ferry to Capri. Naples sucks, been there three times and can't recall one thing worth seeing.
Archeological museum in Naples is world class and free on a certain day of the week, (tuesday?) Museo Cappella Sansevero the sculptures
rival anything in Florence or Rome without the hassle, the Pizza cheap and worlds best, Spaco Naploi like nothing I've ever witnessed,
Sfogliatella Marys the name says it all. Naples is a mashup of humanity and offers convenient access to Pompei and Herculanium by train.
It's worth going just for the evening passaggiata. I Love Naples but than again a little anarchy excites me.
Google has an app called Duolingo for language lessons but the locals speak Napole which is only a close relative to Italian.
Massimo d'Azeglio, a pioneer of unification, �we have made Italy; now we must make Italians.�
Regarding Venice, make sure you overnight there as during the day it is overun with cruise ship passengers, Go out after
dark and explore,it is magical.
I could spend the entire time in Rome one of my favorite cities on the planet .
There are convents that also rent basic rooms but the popular ones book up far in advance, Stayed at on the edge of Florence
and thoroughly enjoyed it, they provide meals as well.