Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cool Runnings on February 20, 2016, 12:39:11 PM
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I'm confused. :boozing:
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As in adding on, selling and buying or ?
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I don't know........... I've put on 100 miles on her (Norge) TOTAL.
It's winter here and the weather really sucks.
Miss my old FJR... :boozing:
I need a FIX!!!!!
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Well then, since March is just around the corner and the new FJR is about to hit dealer showrooms, just add an FJR to the stable.
Who cares if they do the same thing?
I say, have them all, a Norge, FJR, R1200RS and whatever else you can manage. It's only money.
But keep the Norge because you know what will happen. Next year this time, Norge or FJR? :wink:
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I just read that the FJRs are going to coming out with that inertial axis doohickey that will allow ABS and traction control while cornering. Not sure if it's the '16 or '17 models but something to think about, not to mention all that power.
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Well then, since March is just around the corner and the new FJR is about to hit dealer showrooms, just add an FJR to the stable.
Who cares if they do the same thing?
I say, have them all, a Norge, FJR, R1200RS and whatever else you can manage. It's only money.
But keep the Norge because you know what will happen. Next year this time, Norge or FJR? :wink:
lol - it's only money. :thumb:
The only thing bugging me is those dang high foot-pegs, hoping I won't have to send back the 'all-day' seat for a rework! Got the KD lowering pegs ready for install. NOTE: my inseam is 34" and stock the bike was sort of un-ride-able........ I have no idea why I brought her home. :boozing:
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I just read that the FJRs are going to coming out with that inertial axis doohickey that will allow ABS and traction control while cornering. Not sure if it's the '16 or '17 models but something to think about, not to mention all that power.
and 'call for a qoute'. They ain't sayin' what she's gonna cost with all them fancy extra gears.
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The answer is "because", :grin:
New FJR has a 6 speed tranny, updated tech ala the post 2 up and all that. I imagine it is a rocket yet one of those just ride it and once a year if that, check valves.
The adjustable ergos standard is really nice. No fuss engine.
Whatever you do, don't even try the trade-in thing with the Norge. That " it's only money" thing? The dealer's take it to heart. :evil:
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lol - it's only money. :thumb:
The only thing bugging me is those dang high foot-pegs, hoping I won't have to send back the 'all-day' seat for a rework! Got the KD lowering pegs ready for install. NOTE: my inseam is 34" and stock the bike was sort of un-ride-able........ I have no idea why I brought her home. :boozing:
The Knight Design lowering foot pegs and toe pegs (get those, too) make a huge difference! Put them on, and you will notice the improvement.
Also, you have not had much of a chance to ride your Norge. If you can put 1,000 miles on it, I think you will find you miss the old FJR less and less and enjoy the soulful Norge more and more!
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The Knight Design lowering foot pegs and toe pegs (get those, too) make a huge difference! Put them on, and you will notice the improvement.
Yeah, will see how the foot controls work without the 'toe pegs' first.
BTY: What's MSRP on the 2016 FJR? :boozing:
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The Norge takes forever to brake in. My bike did not loosen up until 8-9,000 miles.
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Around $19k if memory serves. Memory fails often when 5 figures are involved with motorcycles.
It will be interesting to see how the new FJR is received , will current owners rush to upgrade or will they carve out more customers from other brands? Yamaha has been on the skids in sales numbers from reports that track those things. If they don't have a lit of interest right off, might be some leverage to get a decent deal.
100 miles on the Norge? Dang, brand new still.
If you are going to sell it, maybe see if MG discontinues the model as there might be interest to buy them if they won't be available later on. Never know.
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Yeah the Norge does take a long time to "brake" in, but don't you think that the longer it takes to "wear in", the longer it will take to "wear out". BTW do you like the " Brembo breaks"
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Yeah the Norge does take a long time to "brake" in, but don't you think that the longer it takes to "wear in", the longer it will take to "wear out". BTW do you like the " Brembo breaks"
Wonderful, simply wonderful. The handling is stunning too!
Of course she sure is a looker.... :kiss:
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With my 2011 the first about 1,000 miles was kind of like breaking in a new starched pair of jeans. After that everything just sort of came together. Been getting better ever since except for that lifter thing.
GliderJohn
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Problem with the Norge (MAJOR) is LEGROOM.
Not everyone has a 28" inseam.
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I'm curious. It seems you are unhappy with the Norge's ergos, true, it doesn't fit everyone and sometimes no matter how much you change things, the basic machine just doesn't fit.
You miss your FJR, understandable since it is a great ST and the new ones are even better, they do check lots of boxes.
Since you've had it quite a while but put on only 100 miles, a couple of observations:
1. 100 miles isn't even enough to really know how the machine really runs. You can get some idea but that comes to what, about 2 hours worth of riding?
2. You seem to like the Norge but always come back to the ergos. Maybe the Norge just isn't for you.
JMHO but even if you changed the footrests, seat and other things to make it fit, perhaps that is trying to squeeze square pegs into round holes?
From all your posts which go back and forth but only after riding the Norge for 100 miles, maybe your best bet is to get another FJR? It isn't like the Norge is the only ST made nor is it the only ST that has whatever it is one needs from an ST or a motorcycle.
Maybe ask yourself, was there anything wrong with the FJR you had or did you just want to try the Norge and experience the Moto Guzzi mystic? OK, you've been there and done that.
Were the grins on your face any less with the FJR? From what it reads, you were thrilled with the FJR, wanted to experiment and now its time to head back to what you really want.
Going back to a FJR is not going a step down, it is happens to be what you really want and like. How can that be wrong?
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Quote from Cool Runnings:
"Problem with the Norge (MAJOR) is LEGROOM.
Not everyone has a 28" inseam."
I an 5'10" and have a 32" inseam and have no clearance or knee comfort problems on my 8V. The knee room is tighter on my T-3 with floorboards..
GliderJohn
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^ NP is right on. Ride what you really like. Life is too short, and there are too many great alternatives, to settle for a motorcycle that doesn't light your fire.
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Seats and screens. Always need to be adjusted for the rider. It's SO easy to mod the Norge seat that it should not be an issue.
Half the problem for him may be that it's quite possible to sink a half inch into the stck seat which will make any perceived problem worse.
I've raised several Norge seats now for customers and they are in100% agreement-it's much improved. Two with 32" inseam and one with 36".
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Yeah, got an additional $800 + into the bike for comfort and ergonomics, we'll see how she behaves this spring.
Seems like the MODERN trend in motorcycles is towards lower and lower seats.
Us tall people are best suited towards an adventure touring bike.
The Stelvio doesn't have the deep discounts like the Norge.
Look at HD and the Evo. HD lowered the frame in 1996 if memory serves me correct, are they even lower in their current form.
How hard is it to install adjustable height seats on a motorcycle, is BMW the only one that does so?
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^ NP is right on. Ride what you really like. Life is too short, and there are too many great alternatives, to settle for a motorcycle that doesn't light your fire.
No matter which steed you decide on, they all need mods! :boxing:
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I'm curious. It seems you are unhappy with the Norge's ergos, true, it doesn't fit everyone and sometimes no matter how much you change things, the basic machine just doesn't fit.
You miss your FJR, understandable since it is a great ST and the new ones are even better, they do check lots of boxes.
Since you've had it quite a while but put on only 100 miles, a couple of observations:
1. 100 miles isn't even enough to really know how the machine really runs. You can get some idea but that comes to what, about 2 hours worth of riding?
2. You seem to like the Norge but always come back to the ergos. Maybe the Norge just isn't for you.
JMHO but even if you changed the footrests, seat and other things to make it fit, perhaps that is trying to squeeze square pegs into round holes?
From all your posts which go back and forth but only after riding the Norge for 100 miles, maybe your best bet is to get another FJR? It isn't like the Norge is the only ST made nor is it the only ST that has whatever it is one needs from an ST or a motorcycle.
Maybe ask yourself, was there anything wrong with the FJR you had or did you just want to try the Norge and experience the Moto Guzzi mystic? OK, you've been there and done that.
Were the grins on your face any less with the FJR? From what it reads, you were thrilled with the FJR, wanted to experiment and now its time to head back to what you really want.
Going back to a FJR is not going a step down, it is happens to be what you really want and like. How can that be wrong?
The FJR needed mods too, I think the new ones have LOWERED their seats from the 1st generation?
I know the 8V seat is LOWER than the 4V. :thewife:
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I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300. My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge. However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room. I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback. I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride.
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle? I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control? Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64934.0
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I hate short people! :boozing:
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Hard to fault you there. :boozing:
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The FJR needed mods too, I think the new ones have LOWERED their seats from the 1st generation?
I know the 8V seat is LOWER than the 4V. :thewife:
The new FJR has an adjustable seat, up/down, fore/aft. Reviews say it allows for more ego compliance.
March is just days away.
Dunno but if you wear Frankenstein sole boots that would also reduce legroom.
Or, get a cruiser, bagger or whatever and just stick your legs out ahead of you. Works for untold millions.
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NOTE: my inseam is 34" and stock the bike was sort of un-ride-able........ I have no idea why I brought her home. :boozing:
if you have no idea then we sure don't. :bike-037:
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Seats that adjust may or may not be the answer. It's a great idea but if the stock seat is of poor design (which they often are) then the adjustment is for naught.
As information: I deal with literally hundreds of owners of custom seats of almost every brand. Plenty of these riders own BMW or Triumph bikes that have a seat that will adjust. These riders tel me over and over that a bad seat is a bad seat no matter what.
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True^^^
Is a custom seat that can adjust better than one that can't? In other words, when you make a custom seat for a BMW or whatever that already has adjustments, do you remove the adjustability when making the custom seat or are the adjustments retained?
Since you make them, asking the source.
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The new FJR has an adjustable seat, up/down, fore/aft. Reviews say it allows for more ego compliance.
March is just days away.
Dunno but if you wear Frankenstein sole boots that would also reduce legroom.
Or, get a cruiser, bagger or whatever and just stick your legs out ahead of you. Works for untold millions.
Hard on the lower back, had a cruiser for 10 years, big 850lb tank. :boozing:
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Seats that adjust may or may not be the answer. It's a great idea but if the stock seat is of poor design (which they often are) then the adjustment is for naught.
As information: I deal with literally hundreds of owners of custom seats of almost every brand. Plenty of these riders own BMW or Triumph bikes that have a seat that will adjust. These riders tel me over and over that a bad seat is a bad seat no matter what.
Yeah, seems like manufacturers almost always skimp on the seat (most important).
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if you have no idea then we sure don't. :bike-037:
impulse... :food:
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impulse... :food:
Oh I get it, that was me and the Buell too.. It was not a mistake for me ..
you need to put on some miles and get happy..
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Oh I get it, that was me and the Buell too.. It was not a mistake for me ..
you need to put on some miles and get happy..
Yeah I know, it's my SAD acting up, need some sun and warm weather! :boozing:
I'm excited about the Norge, had the same cruiser for ten years and got sick of it, no fun in the twisties.
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this is a thread to nowhere.
get a taller seat or get rid of it.
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this is a thread to nowhere.
get a taller seat or get rid of it.
Russell all-day.
STOCK SEATS SUCK AND MOST MOTORCYCLES ERGONOMICS SUCK FOR ANYONE OVER 6 FEET TALL!
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Get on a plane, fly to where the sun is shining, rent a motorcycle and maybe get out of the doldrums.
Rent a KTM that needs a step ladder to get on.
???
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I like the features and look of the new FJR. I think I would be happy with it. But my Norge makes me happy, too, at roughly half the price. (I would need the ES version, of course!)
I think many modern ST bikes are quite capable and satisfying. The problem we run into is picking one and sticking with it.
I have this problem with cars. I sold my older 750Li and now drive a new 228Xi. Both are perfectly capable and satisfying, but now that it is gone, I miss the 750Li. (I owned an older 745i but got worried about the transmission, so I sold it and bought a 328Xi, but hated it, so I sold it and bought the 750Li, but got worried about about the transmission, so I sold it and...)
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Get on a plane, fly to where the sun is shining, rent a motorcycle and maybe get out of the doldrums.
Rent a KTM that needs a step ladder to get on.
???
NP, think about it, they are ripping us off. A $16k motorcycle and the stock seats suck! :thumb:
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I like the features and look of the new FJR. I think I would be happy with it. But my Norge makes me happy, too, at roughly half the price. (I would need the ES version, of course!)
I think many modern ST bikes are quite capable and satisfying. The problem we run into is picking one and sticking with it.
I have this problem with cars. I sold my older 750Li and now drive a new 228Xi. Both are perfectly capable and satisfying, but now that it is gone, I miss the 750Li. (I owned an older 745i but got worried about the transmission, so I sold it and bought a 328Xi, but hated it, so I sold it and bought the 750Li, but got worried about about the transmission, so I sold it and...)
Yikes, you went from a 750Li to a 228Xi? Why didn't you just get a DODGE. :boozing:
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Go home and think about what you have done. Don't make me come over there! (OP)
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Go home and think about what you have done. Don't make me come over there! (OP)
:boxing:
Cheers, all in good fun. :boozing:
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:thumb: :bike-037:
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Forget the FJR, keep the Norge and get an ST1300. Less than $7K will get you a clean late model ST, just a helluva bike. V4 engine, extra smooth, tons of HP and torque, will travel all day every day at 85mph and deliver 50+ mpg, with a 300+ mile range. All of the plastic is easy to remove, with consistent 8mm fasteners. Battery and all fluids are accessible under the seat, and even the integrated bags can be removed in less than 2 minutes. And you can't beat Honda's dealer network and reliability. I sure miss the hell out of mine!
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Better yet, sell the Norge, get the ST1300, and buy a Griso! :thumb:
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Forget the FJR, keep the Norge and get an ST1300. Less than $7K will get you a clean late model ST, just a helluva bike. V4 engine, extra smooth, tons of HP and torque, will travel all day every day at 85mph and deliver 50+ mpg, with a 300+ mile range. All of the plastic is easy to remove, with consistent 8mm fasteners. Battery and all fluids are accessible under the seat, and even the integrated bags can be removed in less than 2 minutes. And you can't beat Honda's dealer network and reliability. I sure miss the hell out of mine!
Those early ones were such wretched leg-cookers, many Iron-Butt riders sold em.
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Better yet, sell the Norge, get the ST1300, and buy a Griso! :thumb:
The ST1300 is the most boring motorcycle I can think of. :popcorn:
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Those early ones were such wretched leg-cookers, many Iron-Butt riders sold em.
Are you referring to the ST as a leg cooker? :huh:
I had heard that about the 1st Gen FJRs...
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Are you referring to the ST as a leg cooker? :huh:
I had heard that about the 1st Gen FJRs...
Yes, BUT not at the levels the early ST1300's produced.
100 F day wearing jeans and you would have a couple KF chicken legs. :evil:
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Cool running a hit it squarely on the head, Hondas do the job very well, sensibly designed and have the reputation to never break down, sorta like a Tupperware dish, in fact exactly like a Tupperware dish. Here's the thing as I see it though, If our Guzzis didn't have deficiencies and quirks we'd have bugger all to talk about that was worth the data it took to post. Geez, can you imagine if we all rode Hondas and the like?, how would the forum be, I can see it now. Huzo's mods? don't bother reading it, because the bike's already perfect. How about Norge Pilot, "How's your st 1100 NP ?"..... "Good Huzo"......"Oh.... Good". Cool Running posts " Anyone know how to do the tappets on a VFR 1200 ?"..........."Nup.. never had to, says Rocker, mine's only done 250,000 k" won't have to before I die so I didn't bother learning".....Blah, Blah BLAH !!!!!! See I think what we really have become is little boys that (mostly) became big boys, who stopped playing in the sand pit comparing toy trucks, "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" sort of deal, and our toys just got bigger and more expensive, we're just comparing what we are proud of, familiar theme as little boys do. The fact is that we "need" our bikes and our bikes "need" us, ' cos without more or less constant attention they'll slow down and stop, that sorta applies in both directions, our Guzzis are a reflection of who we actually are ourselves, more so than so called "perfect" bikes are to their owners. We want to work at improving our bikes because we recognise that they need to be. You can bet your flat tappets that if you had a gorgeous Italian girlfriend that everyone was jealous of, you'd be sick to death of her eventually if she always said "yes dear" "no dear" and never played up ( read Honda),eventually you'd want her to throw an Italian hissy fit so you knew you were alive. It's the fact that our bikes are demonstrably imperfect that we like them so much and our perceived knowledge gained over many years and miles gives us our status and pleasure.... ( I think), could be wrong though, some one'll tell me if I am ,I'm sure.
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...if you had a gorgeous Italian girlfriend that everyone was jealous of, you'd be sick to death of her eventually if she always said "yes dear" "no dear" and never played up ( read Honda),eventually you'd want her to throw an Italian hissy fit so you knew you were alive.
As long as the math equation holds true:
Fx (Beautiful Italian Girlfriend) ^2 > = Maintenance of Said Girlfriend - you've got a winner...
When Said Maintenance exceeds Fx (Beautiful Italian Girlfriend) - it's time to change!
If and when Guzzi = Italian Girlfriend = solve for Fx in above equation! :grin: :grin:
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2015 FJR1300A $15,890*
2016 FJR1300A $16,390 - Cobalt Blue - Available February (49st), March (CA)
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^ NP is right on. Ride what you really like. Life is too short, and there are too many great alternatives, to settle for a motorcycle that doesn't light your fire.
Wasn't that a quote from Canuguzzi ? Who is NP ?
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Wasn't that a quote from Canuguzzi ? Who is NP ?
Norge Pilot, gone now I think..
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Say what you will about Hondas but I know a few Guzzi long time owners who also have Hondas if they needed to go cross country today it wouldn't be on the Guzzi....
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I let a friend of mine, ride my Daytona and I rode his Goldwing and I couldn't wait to give it back to him. If I have to ride only the slab cross country, I'll buy a Miata.
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Say what you will about Hondas but I know a few Guzzi long time owners who also have Hondas if they needed to go cross country today it wouldn't be on the Guzzi....
I hope you're not right there. I've got a Yamaha 900 Diversion and a BMW R1200 GS and I'm riding to the Nordkapp on my Norge next week! I'm taking the Guzzi 'cos I don't want to "play it safe", your grandma could do it on the GS. I know if I don't do it on the Guzzi, the trip will just be "vanilla" and " beige" without the spark that the Italian bike brings.
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Say what you will about Hondas but I know a few Guzzi long time owners who also have Hondas if they needed to go cross country today it wouldn't be on the Guzzi....
I crossed the country on a CalVin, and had great time. Windshield buffeting kind of sucked, but I got over it.
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Get on a plane, fly to where the sun is shining, rent a motorcycle and maybe get out of the doldrums.
Rent a KTM that needs a step ladder to get on.
???
Canuguzzi, you don't need to "rent" a bike... are you there ?
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The Norge takes forever to brake in. My bike did not loosen up until 8-9,000 miles.
It's break in for heaven's sake.. Braking takes less time, and if it takes a long time to wear in it'll take a long time to wear out.
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I have a Norge and are 6'2" and 34" inseam. No problems with the ergos. If people didn't keep bringing it up, I would not notice it. My wife is 5'9" and doesn't have a problem with the pillion peg height. I came off 5 years with a Tenni Griso and didn't have any problems there either. I did full Matris, added the top box so my wife can sit back, Agostini exhaust without db killer and installed Beetle's Norge map through Guzzidiag and it is good enough for me.
I sometimes wonder if the ergo problem is the same as the non-existent Guzzi shaft drive jacking that every second reviewer seems to reference just so they can have something to put in.
Just in case it might be better because the problem is so bad for many, I bought some Goldwing foot pegs for $70 shipped (just get two left springs and fits perfectly) and put them on in about 5 minutes this week. Will test them out this weekend and if I don't like will switch it back in even less time.
One of my friends has an FJR, is a daily rider and loves it a lot but does not appeal to me one bit - he did redo his pegs, seat and screen also. I bought my Norge new for $10,700 including taxes and shipping - his was well over $17k out the door. He looks down on my primitive low tech underpowered bike but I paid cash, he financed. Have not ridden the FJR but I did spend a couple of weeks touring Japan on an R1200RT and it was perfect... so perfect it was like riding a sewing machine. No connection to the bike and if I was a BMW rider would be continually upgrading to the new model each year or two. That is my impression of what riding an FJR would be.
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I have a Norge and are 6'2" and 34" inseam. No problems with the ergos. If people didn't keep bringing it up, I would not notice it. My wife is 5'9" and doesn't have a problem with the pillion peg height. I came off 5 years with a Tenni Griso and didn't have any problems there either. I did full Matris, added the top box so my wife can sit back, Agostini exhaust without db killer and installed Beetle's Norge map through Guzzidiag and it is good enough for me.
I sometimes wonder if the ergo problem is the same as the non-existent Guzzi shaft drive jacking that every second reviewer seems to reference just so they can have something to put in.
Just in case it might be better because the problem is so bad for many, I bought some Goldwing foot pegs for $70 shipped (just get two left springs and fits perfectly) and put them on in about 5 minutes this week. Will test them out this weekend and if I don't like will switch it back in even less time.
One of my friends has an FJR, is a daily rider and loves it a lot but does not appeal to me one bit - he did redo his pegs, seat and screen also. I bought my Norge new for $10,700 including taxes and shipping - his was well over $17k out the door. He looks down on my primitive low tech underpowered bike but I paid cash, he financed. Have not ridden the FJR but I did spend a couple of weeks touring Japan on an R1200RT and it was perfect... so perfect it was like riding a sewing machine. No connection to the bike and if I was a BMW rider would be continually upgrading to the new model each year or two. That is my impression of what riding an FJR would be.
The second paragraph said it all GVW. Spot on. What year is your Norge ? Some of the BS that's spread about the Norge ergo's is just nit picking non speak. The thing that's got me rooted, is how guys can buy these bikes and THEN realise that they don't like some insignificant little feature. What sort of "test" ride did they have...
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Had to chime in.....I have ridden several FJR's although not this years model. They all felt too small and narrow.....if you know what I mean. I ended up buying a ST1300 instead, since in the world of sport touring the ST leans more toward touring, while the FJR leans more toward sport IMHO. I'm sure the Yamaha is faster, but if I wanted that fast, I would be looking in a whole nother class of bikes.
Having said all that, when I bought the 12 Norge, I shortly after sold the ST........so here I am.....Norge my favorite...hands down. Buy one of each and then you have no dilemma!!
Tim
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Had to chime in.....I have ridden several FJR's although not this years model. They all felt too small and narrow.....if you know what I mean. I ended up buying a ST1300 instead, since in the world of sport touring the ST leans more toward touring, while the FJR leans more toward sport IMHO. I'm sure the Yamaha is faster, but if I wanted that fast, I would be looking in a whole nother class of bikes.
Having said all that, when I bought the 12 Norge, I shortly after sold the ST........so here I am.....Norge my favorite...hands down. Buy one of each and then you have no dilemma!!
Tim
Yes you'd still have a dilemma. If the FJR was closest to the door, you'd have to drag the bastard out of the way to get your good bike out !
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It's break in for heaven's sake.. Braking takes less time, and if it takes a long time to wear in it'll take a long time to wear out.
For heaven's sake , don't be a grammar nazi .
Dusty
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For heavens sake , don't be a grammar nazi .
Dusty
Yeah fair point Dusty.. By the way it's heaven's sake not heavens, that would be the plural of heaven and it's actually a spelling and punctuation error, but if that comes in under the broad heading of grammar, I'll stand to be educated. Oh and also, I was sorta' joking. And sorta' is colloquial so not a mistake strictly speaking. Also, remember the sense of humour thing of which you made mention ? (I did the decent thing and left out the fact that Nazi is a noun and should therefore contain a capital). :azn:
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Notice I corrected my error before you decided to be a nazi , which was purposely spelled with a small n to make a point .
Dusty
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Notice I corrected my error before you decided to be a nazi , which was purposely spelled with a small n to make a point .
Dusty
It's all in fun Dusty, as also with you I know.
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I have no dog in this fight and haven't even read the thread. But I did ride a 1400 Concours and a 8v Norge within a week of each other.
Frankly I was surprised with the similarities than differences. Both bikes had similar feel and ergonomics. Frankly, the "less is more" Norge was my preference. Less weight and less power, better suspension and feel worked for me. In the real world, both had responsive torque curves and I think Norge goes around road curves better. I suppose it's the extra 3k rpms where you'll feel the Kaw's 50 more hp?
Haven't ridden the FJR but riding with FJR riders, they are fast bikes that go around corners. It appears that FJRs have replaced the old 1000 Concours as the Japanese sport tourer of choice. Honda went out of the game when riders complained that ST1300 gave off too much heat to be comfortable in summer.
Finally, I consider these as one up bikes for touring, not two-up full-on tourers like a 'wing or RT.
Having said all that, I think that FJ09 might be the one to consider. I am not fond of the looks, but it's light and powerful, the suspension is upgradable. And then there that new Duc SS that's got the jones on.....
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The Honda ST1300 was one of two bikes I wish I had bought when I had the chance. The other was a V45 Sabre back in the early 80's.