Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SED on February 20, 2016, 02:01:32 PM
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Bike names have been discussed before, but not in a dedicated thread that I know of.
I just can't help wondering if Guzzi's sales are hurt by some of the names they pick. What do you guys think?
Italian companies seem to have the same problem with English as Japanese T-shirt makers: "My cousin knows how to speak English, he'll come up with a good name (or slogan)"
Jill, my wife, was working for an Italian software company near Verona and, because she is American, they very proudly showed her hundreds of new products (calendars, pens, watches) printed with their new slogan in English:
"The world is our house"
Software & Houses? Jill was puzzled until she realized they meant "The world is our home" or "We are at home in the world".
Japanese clothes have all kinds of butchered English phrases on them but at least the bike makers were smart enough to give their bikes numbers that related to something mechanical about the bike: CB450, CB750, KZ900, YZ350. When they did use names they picked Japanese names that Americans interpret similarly to how the Japanese do: Ninja, Katana.
Guzzi is much more hit and miss with its naming. Here are some successful names and their connotations (subject to interpretation!):
Eldorado - expedition to the city of gold
LeMans, Monza - Race courses!
V7 and V7 sport - V for the engine and 7 for displacement - makes sense
1000S & Sport 1100 - displacement and S for sport
Daytona - Race course
MGS-01 Corsa - yes!
Falcone - Italian, but even I know it is evocative of fast and nimble qualities that make a nice bike.
Lots of other names seem to work because they are related to the mechanics of the bike and its purpose:
V35, V50, V65, SP1000, 850T, V65SP, V1100, 1200 Sport, etc.
Less successful names could poison sales and it seems like Guzzi using them more than in the past. Some examples and their connotation (subject to interpretation!):
Imola - immolate - sacrificial burning?
Centauro - a bull trapped in a maze?
Quota - sounds like I'm being rationed
Ballabio - Fabio's over weight brother?
Nevada - a desert
Florida - old people and beaches with flowers
Breva - I don't want the short version, I want the whole thing!
Jackal - isn't that a hyena-like scavenger? or maybe a 70s terrorist... (forgot this one the first time around)
Stone - rounded rock at the bottom of a stream. Rock is what you find at the top of a mountain.
Norge - unless you know the history, the land of ice and snow is a strange name for a bike
X21 - what happened to X1 through X20? Wouldn't X14 be better? Is 21 the wheelbase in decimeters?
Flying Fortress - Sounds heavy and ponderous. Why not name it for the Boeing StratoCruiser?
Audace - Audacious - I get it, but it's rarely used so sounds Odd. Also, a bike name should describe the bike, not the rider. This name blurs that line.
Roamer - The more familiar word is Roaming - often used with the word Mindless... (Roller?)
Bobber - Fishing floats bob, ducks bob, bikes with bad shocks bob... Bob bought a funny bike... (Rail?)
Wondering if Moto Guzzi might do better by hiring native English speakers to help with their naming.
Related is Guzzi's penchant for adding a number to the name when updating the bike. Other makers update their bikes year to year and keep the name. Compare a 1986 Ninja and a 2016 Ninja. Adding numbers invites weird interpretations of getting it wrong the first time or not having the original. (Imagine a Ninja VIII) I thought this was over, but Guzzi has now given us the V7II. Why not just V7 or V7/6? (or something else to refer to the specific mechanical changes.)
Sorry, it's a bit of a rant, but also curious what you think. Am I just being old and cranky? Or maybe Piaggio/ Guzzi does'nt need to worry about names for the North American market because their other markets are so much more important?
Cheers,
Shawn
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Breva is the warm wind that blows over Lake Como on which Mandello del Lario sits (or something like that). the home of Moto Guzzi anyway.
Sounds alright to me anyway.
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Bring back the Dondolino and Gambalunga and I'm in...
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Dondolino was another weird one I was thinking of. I think it's a bird, but all I find is swing for translation.
I like knowing that the Breva is a warm wind, but does it help sell motorcycles?
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It's a tough one.
If an Italian thought they were smart calling a bike a FloRIDa because of the US state and words Flow + Rider they probably got it wrong.
If some American rapper called him self Florida you'd say he was on to something despite Flo being a girls name?
Imola - I think most people on forum know its a race track in Italy,
Most Europeans would identify more with Imola as a race track than Daytona, Daytona's also a good name (obviously because Ferrari used it)
Quota - Italian for Steal cut Oats.
Bobber/Roamer Hmm OPs probably right with those.
Bobber - first mechanical failure and it will be renamed Bob-a-Job (well at least I the uk)
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Despite being American made, my Rokon was named after something that came up out of a radio active sea and ate Tokyo.
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Despite being American made, my Rokon was named after something that came up out of a radio active sea and ate Tokyo.
Not this then?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=liWIbE1gQTk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=liWIbE1gQTk)
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If some American rapper called him self Florida you'd say he was on to something despite Flo being a girls name?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flo_Rida
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Interesting theory, numbered models seem to make more sense (think BMW numbering scheme), and Lamborghini has gone the odd name route as well as well:
Countach, Khamsin, Aventador, Murcielago
and yet they seem to sell like pan caliente (hot cakes!).
Perhaps the more Italian sounding, the better the chance it sells...maybe that's why the Stelvio is more appealing than the Norge!
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Quota can be translated as altitude in Italian.
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GRISO! = An Italian shout-out for more spline lube.
Unfortunately gone unheeded...
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I'm a Stoner, man... what were we talking about?
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That's the Race version: Stone R :boozing:
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Let alone "Convert". Concerning the Norge, could have done better but I am not coming up with a good replacement name off the top of my head. Maybe:
Sagittario (Archer)
Saetta (Lightning)
Veltro (Greyhound)
GliderJohn
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What sounds better?
Ducati. Triumph. Vespa. Even Husqvarna.
Or Guzzi rhyming with Susie?
Good luck educating people on the sound of ZZ in Italian :)
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The problem with names, they can be owned.
When Ford wanted to build a world car they wanted to call it the Mondial (Global) Ferrari had already used Mondial and they were owned by .. who prevented Ford using the name. Ford had to settle for Mondeo (world-ish)
When a small British company launched a kit car called the Sprinter they received a letter from lawyers for Mercedes ( who had a Sprinter van) the small company renamed their car Viper. A few years later and the Chrysler Viper was exported to europe. Chrysler now linked to Mercedes the small company dusted of the letter typed it back out with Viper substituted for Sprinter and addressed it to Mercedes. Chrysler Vipers had to be rebadged. numbers and letters were chosen. SRT10? or something of the kind.
On Guzzi names:
what if the Bobber or Roamer had followed with another US state:
Might have been called the
'Hawaii 8-5-O'
would that have been allowed?
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I like the names 'Ambassador ' and 'Eldorado ', 'cept here they are called V750 and 850 GT respectively.
Tom
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What sounds better?
Ducati. Triumph. Vespa. Even Husqvarna.
Or Guzzi rhyming with Susie?
Good luck educating people on the sound of ZZ in Italian :)
Ha ...educate and just say it like Pizza...not pisa....aka home of the tower
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Less successful names could poison sales and it seems like Guzzi using them more than in the past. Some examples and their connotation (subject to interpretation!):
Imola - immolate - sacrificial burning?
Centauro - a bull trapped in a maze?
Quota - sounds like I'm being rationed
Ballabio - Fabio's over weight brother?
Nevada - a desert
Florida - old people and beaches with flowers
Breva - I don't want the short version, I want the whole thing!
Jackal - isn't that a hyena-like scavenger? or maybe a 70s terrorist... (forgot this one the first time around)
Stone - rounded rock at the bottom of a stream. Rock is what you find at the top of a mountain.
Norge - unless you know the history, the land of ice and snow is a strange name for a bike
X21 - what happened to X1 through X20? Wouldn't X14 be better? Is 21 the wheelbase in decimeters?
Flying Fortress - Sounds heavy and ponderous. Why not name it for the Boeing StratoCruiser?
Audace - Audacious - I get it, but it's rarely used so sounds Odd. Also, a bike name should describe the bike, not the rider. This name blurs that line.
Roamer - The more familiar word is Roaming - often used with the word Mindless... (Roller?)
Bobber - Fishing floats bob, ducks bob, bikes with bad shocks bob... Bob bought a funny bike... (Rail?)
I guess you're joking... :rolleyes:
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Ford sued Ferrari over the F-150 moniker. Ferrari backed down and renamed their Formula 1 car the F150th Italia
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I like the names 'Ambassador ' and 'Eldorado ', 'cept here they are called V750 and 850 GT respectively.
Tom
Actually they were/are called V7 Special and V7 850GT (California or not)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUD9tJiyad8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRD8IEbUnGk
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I guess you're joking... :rolleyes:
? I don't understand.
The post is not a joke - I wish many Guzzi names sounded better to me. But am wondering if names are that important or I'm reading too much into a name. Some of the negative connotations are kinda funny though...
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? I don't understand.
The post is not a joke - I wish many Guzzi names sounded better to me. But am wondering if names are that important or I'm reading too much into a name. Some of the negative connotations are kinda funny though...
I would also have guessed that everybody into Italian bikes would be familiar with the race track of Imola.
I, myself, go more after the bike, so I don`t really care what the model name is, but of course it does`t hurt if it is a nice one that appeals to me.
Not being an American, I think I would`ve had a hard time living with a bike called Fat Bob, Big Chief, Road King and that sort of names though.
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w477/kidneb51/site1014_zps1915c96f.jpg) (http://s1077.photobucket.com/user/kidneb51/media/site1014_zps1915c96f.jpg.html)
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I like the names 'Ambassador ' and 'Eldorado ', 'cept here they are called V750 and 850 GT respectively.
Tom
Why was there no conflict with those names on a Guzzi and the Nash Ambassador that my father owned
or the Cadilac Eldorado?
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"I would also have guessed that everybody into Italian bikes would be familiar with the race track of Imola."
That's the thing - if you don't know the Imola track, the first word in English the brain jumps to is inappropriate for a motorcycle. If a company is trying to expand their market then they should probably consider names that bring up positive associations for customers unfamiliar with the history.
LeMans, Monza, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix are all names Americans are familiar with - though they may associate them with some over weight cars.
A couple examples Targa: Most Americans probably associate the name with the track or a removable roof panel in older 911s. If they don't have that connection then they probably associate it with a target for darts or arrows - so the bike and rider are either on target or they are the target. Which is it?
Avanti: many know it's meaning and many may be familiar its use by Studebaker for their super charged sportscar, but even if they don't it is a quick, easy to pronounce word that sounds like Avant-garde so good connotations.
Maybe BMW should market a sport bike called the Nurburgring! :wink:
And I screwed up my original post - a Centaur is a horses body with a man's torso. My mushy Greek mythology conflated it with the Minotaur. Maybe that's why Rocker asked if it was a joke? Joke's on me. :cool:
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Why was there no conflict with those names on a Guzzi and the Nash Ambassador that my father owned
or the Cadilac Eldorado?
I was wondering the same thing. Ford apparently could not use the name Sierra for their European import because it was too close to the name Ciera used by Oldsmobile, yet Guzzi has been able to use LeMans, Monza, etc.
Maybe a 2 and 4 wheel thing?
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Don't forget ...where it is put together, and by who, is very important too.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/italy_zpsjpojkgfk.jpg)
Heres a bad place.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/funny-city-name_zpso3t1pnzk.jpg)
Motors provided by Miracle Manufacturing Co. of Boring, Oregon.
:grin:
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Vipers are still Vipers, but there are different versions such as the ACR, GTS, R/T and SRT-10.
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"I would also have guessed that everybody into Italian bikes would be familiar with the race track of Imola."
That's the thing - if you don't know the Imola track, the first word in English the brain jumps to is inappropriate for a motorcycle. If a company is trying to expand their market then they should probably consider names that bring up positive associations for customers unfamiliar with the history.
Since the Imola was never officially imported to the US, what we Yanks think the name might mean is largely immaterial. I'd bet if you asked the "man on the street" (like Jay Leno used to) what "immolate" meant, a large percentage would guess incorrectly.
How about the horrible names the Japanese have used:
- Virago: a domineering, violent, or bad-tempered woman (yet the bike was quite successful).
- Madura: island Indonesia off coast of NE Java area (dismal bike and sales)
- Silver Pigeon: yeah, no thanks, I'd rather walk.
- Accord: makes me think of "accordian" - does the car fold up like one when crashed?
- Juke: rhymes with puke
- Prelude: to what, sounds to much like "quaalude"
;-) :-)
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Centauro is not a bull in a maze
It is half man half horse which is very appropriate when riding one. Best 8 valve Guzzi there is.
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Early Datsun 240Z was the Fair Lady if I remember right.
Good thread. dose make you think about the names :wink:
Tom
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I understand that one name Ford Motor Company pondered prior to deciding on "Edsel" was. "Utopian Turtle Topper". Some Female poet contracted by Ford came up with that.
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Early Datsun 240Z was the Fair Lady if I remember right.
Good thread. dose make you think about the names :wink:
Tom
You are right :boozing: and indeed both the 1600 and 2000 cars, which were more than a tad MGB like that preceded the 24 Ounce were called Fairlady. I would not be one bit surprised to fond that current Nissan sports cars may be called such in Japan. (BTW: the 2000 was a nasti fast car)
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A friend of mine when I was a kid had a 2000. Seems like they had another name as well, at least for the 2000. Quick little car. Odd thing, he also had a 750 Ambo. Maybe that's where I got my start??
Tom
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Ford asked for , and received permission from Triumph to use the Thunderbird name .
Dusty
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Ford asked for , and received permission from Triumph to use the Thunderbird name .
Dusty
I had never heard that, thanks!
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Studebaker Dictator.
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I had never heard that, thanks!
You are welcome , I am a fount of completely useless knowledge :rolleyes: Between me and a buddy who has departed this mortal coil , we knew everything that almost no one cares about .Just ask any question , go ahead :laugh:
Dusty
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Good Lord. That is my specialty. I can bore people to death with important arcana. :boozing:
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So does anyone know why the V7 Special is spelled Special on Moto Guzzi's Italian site instead of Speciale?
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So does anyone know why the V7 Special is spelled Special on Moto Guzzi's Italian site instead of Speciale?
Errore.
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If a company is trying to expand their market then they should probably consider names that bring up positive associations for customers unfamiliar with the history.
What names do you propose for Harley Davidson and Honda for machines they sell in Italy?
LeMans, Monza, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix are all names Americans are familiar with - though they may associate them with some over weight cars.
You can't have it both ways. I submit that the knucklehead who doesn't relate a sporting motorcycle named Imola to a racetrack in Italy will only associate LeMans and Grand Prix to Pontiac, Monza and Monte Carlo to Chevy.
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Somehow the Harley Davidson Assen Park just doesn't sound quite right ... (dang emos have gone on Sabbatical)
Dusty
More likely the Harley-Davidson Assless Chaps. ;-)
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What names do you propose for Harley Davidson and Honda for machines they sell in Italy?
You can't have it both ways. I submit that the knucklehead who doesn't relate a sporting motorcycle named Imola to a racetrack in Italy will only associate LeMans and Grand Prix to Pontiac, Monza and Monte Carlo to Chevy.
Well at least the guy who associates LeMans or Monza with a car is probably aware that the car was named for a racetrack. Imola doesn't even have that connection in the US, but, as someone pointed out, the V35 Imola was never marketed here - so I shouldn't have included it. Oh well.
For product names in general it makes sense to keep the name that the home market uses unless it elicits the wrong connotation. If the wrong connotation is common in the new market, then consider a name with more positive connotations. I don't speak the language or know any Italian word connotations or conventions so for me to propose names for bikes marketed to Italians would just perpetuate the problem in the other direction (if it is a problem).
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I doubt that many Americans know much about Italy unless they have roots there or have followed some sort of GP racing. A question may be asked about MG's target audience: enthusiast or larger than that?
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Somehow the Harley Davidson Assen Park just doesn't sound quite right ... (dang emos have gone on Sabbatical)
Dusty
I just looked up Harley names on their website. I'd thought they would all be versions of XCLH or XCLR8 or something, but mostly they seemed to be a first name: Fat, Wide, Street, Road or Electra combined with a second name: Bob, Boy, Glide, King. Throw in a few modifiers: Ultra, Custom, Special, Limited and you can sell a lot of bikes! :grin:
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I doubt that many Americans know much about Italy unless they have roots there or have followed some sort of GP racing. A question may be asked about MG's target audience: enthusiast or larger than that?
Good point. I wrote the original thinking that Guzzi was trying to expand their target audience. The 1400cc cruisers seem to suggest it.
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I just looked up Harley names on their website. I'd thought they would all be versions of XCLH or XCLR8 or something, but mostly they seemed to be a first name: Fat, Wide, Street, Road or Electra combined with a second name: Bob, Boy, Glide, King. Throw in a few modifiers: Ultra, Custom, Special, Limited and you can sell a lot of bikes! :grin:
I heard they are hard at work on the Obese Blob Lard Ass.
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I don't speak the language or know any Italian word connotations or conventions
Nothing wrong with that. For some reason, though, I've always been curious, and have searched up names I didn't understand.
Here's one I didn't need to do that with, because I remembered it from literature in grade school:
You said: "Centauro - a bull trapped in a maze?"
That was Minotaur. Half man / half bull product of royal bestiality.
Centaur was a half man / half horse race of creatures from Thessaly.
And, that is why I thought you were joking...
I always thought Centauro was a great name for a motorcycle... I've always considered the motorcycle a mechanical horse, and being an equestrian myself, understood the connection.
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I doubt that many Americans know much about Italy unless they have roots there or have followed some sort of GP racing. A question may be asked about MG's target audience: enthusiast or larger than that?
Armani, Versace, Gucchi, Guzzi. (http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/drink.gif)
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You said: "Centauro - a bull trapped in a maze?"
That was Minotaur. Half man / half bull product of royal bestiality.
Centaur was a half man / half horse race of creatures from Thessaly.
And, that is why I thought you were joking...
I always thought Centauro was a great name for a motorcycle... I've always considered the motorcycle a mechanical horse, and being an equestrian myself, understood the connection.
I actually remembered that Centaur was the half man / half horse while out on a little ride today! :embarrassed:
Centaur does make sense - agreed! Until then I'd never understood where Centauro had come from. My Greek mythology is too easily confuzzled. Wonder if that is common?
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Armani, Versace, Gucchi, Guzzi. (http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/drink.gif)
Point taken.
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Point taken.
My mom says "Moto Gucci".
LOL!
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My mom says "Moto Gucci".
LOL!
Moto Gucci! Wasn't that the name of the horse the new sheriff rode into town?
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Polaris has the astronomical angle.
Lots of cars and bikes have been named after stars, planets and moons even.
Ships no exception!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/titan%20uranus_zpsfapi97zy.jpg)
:shocked:
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Moto Gucci! Wasn't that the name of the horse the new sheriff rode into town?
Nah. Sheriff Bart had Gucci saddlebags.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/43/75/d143757f59261cfea25afc0a1b77080b.jpg)
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Nah. Sheriff Bart had Gucci saddlebags.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/43/75/d143757f59261cfea25afc0a1b77080b.jpg)
My bad! Mistook the bags for the horse. The horse was a bagger.
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Polaris has the astronomical angle.
Lots of cars and bikes have been named after stars, planets and moons even.
Ships no exception!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/titan%20uranus_zpsfapi97zy.jpg)
:shocked:
That belongs in the "fastest get off" thread.
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My bad! Mistook the bags for the horse. The horse was a bagger.
The horse's name was "Sam", though it's not referred to in the movie.
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The horse's name was "Sam", though it's not referred to in the movie.
People who know such things! No wonder I like it here!
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People who know such things! No wonder I like it here!
I grew up around horses, and watching westerns. So, useless trivia like that occupies too much of my brain.
Recent dinner with my dad, and the trivia game we played while waiting for the food was naming movie horses.
He missed "Ol Dollor", and when he first appeared. I was kind of surprised. However, he kicked my ass on the early 1950s singing cowboy horses' names.
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What key do most singing cowboy horse's perform in ? Dangit , sorry Mike , couldn't help myself LOL.
Dusty
I forgot an apostrophe somewhere, didn't I ?
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I would like my next motorcycle to be called Brough Superior 😀
Tom
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Cristian Dior?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amber-Reflector-Mounting-Bolts-Pair/dp/B00N4VEJW2? (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amber-Reflector-Mounting-Bolts-Pair/dp/B00N4VEJW2?)
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It seems quite difficult to get a name that embodies the vehicle and sounds good. The Ford Mustang is a great example. As for bikes, some of the best names seem (IMO) to be:
Range of bikes offered at the same time, sort of a sub-brand
- Kawasaki Ninjas
- Ducati Monsters
Single Bikes
- Harley Road King
- Triumph Bonneville
...and of course, Moto Guzzi LeMans
Of all the bikes I've owned, I think only one had a name without numbers, a Yamaha Radian. Even my V11 Sport Scura and V11 LeMans are supplemented by numbers.
I do like the Scura name... and Moto Guzzi could use it on any black bike, like Ducati did with the "Dark" versions of other models. V7 Scura, V9 Scura, etc.
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On the model name Centauro
Its a double play as well as the Greek mythical Centaur its also Italian for Motorcyclist or rider
I don't think Guzzi is any different in its choice of model names from a lot of Italian automotive manufacturers.
It's just such a great language that almost anything in it sounds good
The Fiat "Point"
The Maserati "4 door" they just don't have the same cred in English & that's just the first 2 that popped into my head
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Citroen (French manufacturer) Produced cars known as DS and ID.
Both the DS and the ID, used a punning name.
"DS" is pronounced in French as "Déesse" (goddess);
"ID" is pronounced as "Idée" (idea).
Not surprisingly when Toyota exported to France the MR2 "Merde" (Excrement); it did not sell well!
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Nissan put out one called the "Cedric" (we don't have a barf emoticon :cry:)
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The Chevy NOVA - which in Spanish translates to No Va = It doesn't go and it didn't.
The VW Jetta (marketed as the Bora in Latin America) as unfortunately Jetta - pronounced in Argentine Spanish sounds very much like the slang for "Bad Luck"
I always thought the Citroen was too close to Citron - French for Lemon, and they certainly were!
Aston Martins db Series...for some reason, I always think decibel 7, decibel 9 as they have such a lovely sound!
Now for some of the best names of vehicles:
Ferrari TestaRossa - Red head...oh yeah!
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Then there are the Ducati Panigale , which translates to crosswind , and the Testastretta engine , which means something like narrow head :shocked: :huh: :laugh:
Dusty
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How about Ford Pinto: In 1971, Ford introduced its two-door subcompact car, the Pinto. The name is derived from the pinto horse, which is a horse with a coat consisting of patches of white and any other color. Folks in Brazil didn't see it that way, however, probably because pinto is Brazilian slang for male genitals.
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How about Ford Pinto: In 1971, Ford introduced its two-door subcompact car, the Pinto. The name is derived from the pinto horse, which is a horse with a coat consisting of patches of white and any other color. Folks in Brazil didn't see it that way, however, probably because pinto is Brazilian slang for male genitals.
Very funny!!
That opens up a new realm of name possibilities.