Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: tris on February 23, 2016, 01:21:08 AM
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So - I was bimbling into work today and thinking back to the days when I started owning cars (a Hillman Imp was my first) and began to wonder how much "stuff" on a modern car is unnecessary/just nice to have and what could be dropped but still have a functional safe car and how much cheaper/fuel efficient they would be
Here's my starter for 10
Electric windows
Air conditioning - based on current UK climate and ignoring any global warming :wink:
Cornering lights
Power steering
SIZE - think old Mini to BMW Mini
reversing beepers
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I dont know about the items you mention but numerous pointless pieces of plastic under seats, centre consoles which are huge and have the only purpose of covering a carpet seam and providing 3 euro coin slots there pretty pointless.
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I get misty about old cars, too...until I remember how unsafe they were, how inefficient, how short lived, how maintenance-intensive. In America, people are dying on highways nearly 40% less than when I was a lad. I'll admit that I think of my 4-wheeler more as an appliance than an expression of my personality these days, but I guess I'm just as happy to save that sort of emotion for my motorcycle...
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I too had a Hillman Imp (74 Super no less) as my first car. GREAT car. so much fun to drive. 750Kg, 40mpg and 40bhp.
Navigation systems go in the bin as far i am concerned. I have NEVER needed one. Not in a car or on a bike.
SEAT released the Mii a few years ago and it harked back to compact city cars of old. No bells or whistles. Just a steel box with four wheels. Cheap too.
Automatic Boot/Trunk openers can go too. Along with Automatic parking systems. If you cant park your own car properly, you shouldn't be driving it.
Chris
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I would suppose power assist brakes could go also. If one were actually willing to use hand signals for turning, (many wouldn't), blinkers could go as well.
John Henry
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I would suppose power assist brakes could go also. If one were actually willing to use hand signals for turning, (many wouldn't), blinkers could go as well.
John Henry
Hell around here they don't use the blinkers anyway.
Dean
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American's on here can probably put me right if I get my facts wrong but I believe there was once a company who made cars and shared you point of view: Studebaker.
The Studebaker Dictator (maybe this is one for the silly names thread, calling a car Dictator in the 1930s!) built to a better standard than a contemporary Ford or Chrysler but guess what - only one tail light because who needs two. Philosophy what's provided is good and don't waste on superfluous tat. Meanwhile there rest of the industry was thinking about chrome trim, radios.... History tells us who won with that one.
(I suspect single tail lights might have been the norm in the early 1920s? I think Studebaker stuck with it after the industry moved on, studebaker - nice cars - too slow to adapt to the market)
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American's on here can probably put me right if I get my facts wrong but I believe there was once a company who made cars and shared you point of view: Studebaker.
The Studebaker Dictator (maybe this is one for the silly names thread, calling a car Dictator in the 1930s!) built to a better standard than a contemporary Ford or Chrysler but guess what - only one tail light because who needs two. Philosophy what's provided is good and don't waste on superfluous tat. Meanwhile there rest of the industry was thinking about chrome trim, radios.... History tells us who won with that one.
(I suspect single tail lights might have been the norm in the early 1920s? I think Studebaker stuck with it after the industry moved on, studebaker - nice cars - too slow to adapt to the market)
It seems like Mr. Tucker had a fair bit to do with the sane design of the automobile and it's development.
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(I suspect single tail lights might have been the norm in the early 1920s? I think Studebaker stuck with it after the industry moved on, studebaker - nice cars - too slow to adapt to the market)
Though most had them, it was 1959 before two taillights were required on all autos in The USA.
Pickup trucks were the last to give up single taillights.
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My 1959 VW Beetle had no gas guage, just a reserve tank floor switch, 36 hp, no heater (well not anything that came close to working), no water cooling system, no electric seats or windows, no automatic transmission, manual choke, etc. It was about as basic as a car could be but it was well made using good quality materials. Still I can't complain about the quality, longer service intervals and service life, safety features, comfort, conveniences, etc of many/most current vehicles (thank you Toyota and Honda for starting the revolution).
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In my humble and young opinion, I think all of the active technology being poured into cars (particularly the past few years) to make them safer is actually creating a side effect - drivers are becoming more ignorant and less attentive. I'm not referring to airbags, stiffer frames with crumple zones, and stability control. I'm talking about all of the auto-wizards built in to some of the newest cars that practically allow the driver to tune-out as soon as he / she sets off. When a vehicle can steer itself, alert you if you're veering outside of your lane, hit the brakes for you if it detects an imminent accident, and can activate the lights, windshield wipers, and even high beams automatically, the driver barely has to get involved with the vehicle. He / she can instead concentrate on what many drivers apparently view to be most important behind the wheel - text with their phones, balance a burger on their laps, and play with the radio. They're so blissfully unaware of their surroundings because the "safety features" have conditioned them to be so. "The car will take care of it." In my mind, all of that is needless junk that wouldn't be the least bit necessary if the driver kept their constant attention on the road. Imagine that!!!
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First I had was a Holden (GM in Aust) '68 HR Station Wagon.
Great car.
Favourite though is a Peugeot 504 with the slant 2 litre four.
Took a VERY big stick to kill one, and from '72 they had Discs
all round, four coil rear Susp. Rack & Pinion steering, the motor
was excellent and it had the best seats I've ever had in a car.
Maurie
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First I had was a Holden (GM in Aust) '68 HR Station Wagon.
Great car.
Favourite though is a Peugeot 504 with the slant 2 litre four.
Took a VERY big stick to kill one, and from '72 they had Discs
all round, four coil rear Susp. Rack & Pinion steering, the motor
was excellent and it had the best seats I've ever had in a car.
Maurie
Right Arm (and we'll written)! But my vote is with the safety technology over having any confidence in expecting to improve the capabilities and performance and attention of typical operators. Of course, my motorcycle has ABS and traction control and I am proud of it. When cars have motorcycle detection and avoidance radar systems I will be a happier person.
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Oops, wrong quote, thought I was quoting thepittsburghguzzi
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(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/IMG_2184.jpg)
About a year ago I finally ditched the front drum brakes for discs, don't know if it saved any weight but it sure was nice being able to stop like a modern car.
And if we all went back to drum brakes it certainly would slow down the tail gaiters.
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PERSONALLY... I love vehicles. I fell in love with cars and trucks long before motorcycles (though working in the automotive industry for more than a decade soured me on them for a time).
We live in a pretty neat time for vehicles.
First off, cars are built better and last longer than ever before. They are also safer than ever before. And maybe most importantly for the enthusiast, they're more capable than ever before!
Look what's available today Luxury SUVs with intelligent 4WD/AWD systems, the most powerful pony cars ever built, AWD hot hatches... it's actually pretty wonderful. You can buy a 700 hp muscle car or 350 hp turbo AWD hot hatch with driver-bias able power and suspension. Wooohooo!
Now being an enthusiast I tend to shy away from the nannies. ABS is fine, TC is good in the right circumstances (especially if I can turn it off), but yeah adaptive cruise control, lane departure warnings, emergency braking systems etc. sort of insult the enthusiast in me.
I don't begrudge their existence. Hell if a car can really brake itself before hitting a pedestrian or motorcyclist it's almost like unloading the gun that's already in the hands of the criminal (the drunkard, the texting teen, whatever your stereotype). That's sorta a cool concept. But of course, I feel it's "not for me" because it somehow pollutes my connection to the driving experience.
But I DO like having some comforts and features - anything from heated leather to steering wheel audio controls for a premium satellite radio sound/NAV/Bluetooth system etc. Keyless entry/ignition with memory features is priceless when you share a vehicle with a much shorter driver!
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In my humble and young opinion, I think all of the active technology being poured into cars (particularly the past few years) to make them safer is actually creating a side effect - drivers are becoming more ignorant and less attentive. I'm not referring to airbags, stiffer frames with crumple zones, and stability control. I'm talking about all of the auto-wizards built in to some of the newest cars that practically allow the driver to tune-out as soon as he / she sets off. When a vehicle can steer itself, alert you if you're veering outside of your lane, hit the brakes for you if it detects an imminent accident, and can activate the lights, windshield wipers, and even high beams automatically, the driver barely has to get involved with the vehicle. He / she can instead concentrate on what many drivers apparently view to be most important behind the wheel - text with their phones, balance a burger on their laps, and play with the radio. They're so blissfully unaware of their surroundings because the "safety features" have conditioned them to be so. "The car will take care of it." In my mind, all of that is needless junk that wouldn't be the least bit necessary if the driver kept their constant attention on the road. Imagine that!!!
All of this is necessary, as is the effect on the driver, so that automated highways can be eased into public acceptance.
Do I want to go back to my Datsun 510? For fun, sure. For daily transport, nah. I'll stick with my modern near base model V70 Volvo. Except I hate the stupid push-keyfob-into-the-dash starting system. I get your point though.
Tobit
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I had a 1955 Cadillac Fleetwood 7-passenger Imperial Sedan. 6,000 pounds: power windows, power steering, power brakes, auto-station search on vacuum tube AM radio, power antenna, power seats, auto-dimming of high-beams for oncoming vehicles (where the hell is that feature on modern cars?), four heater blower motors (with four heater cores - two front, two rear), A/C, weight-be damned, pile on the features... this is Cadillac in the 1950s and we'll never run out of oil.
As for cars, I also see them a bit like appliances, and I'm with Tobit on the V70 (though I no longer have it). Should have kept that till my oldest daughter started driving.
I do like trucks though - and my 1997, 6,600 pound F250 (7.3L diesel) gets more miles per gallon than my 5,000 pound 2005 Tundra (4.7L gas).
As for superfluous bits on modern cars:
Navigation and entertainment systems seem largely unnecessary - that's on most people's mobile devices now anyway.
It seems to me that most other features provide an extra measure of safety or monitoring the vehicle's condition.
Take TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) for example - even though it does some of the thinking for the vehicle owner, it also provides an alert in the case of a slow leak in a tire (picked up a nail or whatever).
But I think we're headed toward the driverless car era. If you can just get in and tell the car where to go, then you'll want a mobile office or entertainment center with all kinds of superfluous things like a massage chair, refrigerator, and coffee maker.
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My Austin Healey has a radio but you really can't hear it, turn signals that can barely be seen, leaks like a basket when raining, worthless windshield wipers, a heater that works great in the summer, worthless defrosters. (designed in one of the wettest country's in the northern hemisphere!)
A red hair step child really...but I love it!
Nothing to do in that car but drive.
I tried the GPS thing on my beemer by mounting one on the handlebar. The first time I took it out for a ride I almost ran off the road twice.
It now resides in my tank bag for help IF I get lost. Distraction is one of your worst enemy's when riding a moto. IMO.
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I was watching Motorweek on TV the other week and they spent more time talking about the "convenience" and "connectivity" features of some cars than they did about the handling and performance. :rolleyes: I don't understand the need for "connectivity" in a car when what you're supposed to be doing is driving. Even if it's for the passengers, it's still a distraction IMO. Huge touch screens on the dash to operate the radio, heat, etc. are also ridiculous.
Chances are very good that I'll never buy another new car because they all come with crap I don't want.
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My wife and I spent 3 months traveling accross the country tent camping out of our 1971 Datsun 510 station wagon - the world's most perfect all around transportation vehicle. My 1973 Peugeot PX-10, 10 speed road bike with my Burley flat-bed trailer handles about 80% of my current transportation needs, I only need a car now to transport my 90 year old mother (she couldn't balance or hang on to a motorcycle and she refuses to ride in my flat-bed bicycle trailer) and living in a city I really could make do with taxi cabs and probably save money in the bargain. So from some perspectives everything about modern cars is superfluous, and my two motorcycles are nothing but superfluous fun. So if you are going to have a car why not have as many niceties and conveniences and safety features as you can afford? I would just as soon my car would drive itself. If I want to "enjoy the ride" I'll ride my bicycle or my motorcycles.
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I heard on the news this past week that 205 was the deadliest year in automobile history since 1950. The biggest contributor to the increase in deaths is technology. I drive a 2009 Ford f150. Not a fancy model. I counted 83 different knobs and controls I had access to while driving. Most were options. Looks like innovation has peeked on the old bell curve of auto technology.
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I heard on the news this past week that 205 was the deadliest year in automobile history since 1950. The biggest contributor to the increase in deaths is technology. I drive a 2009 Ford f150. Not a fancy model. I counted 83 different knobs and controls I had access to while driving. Most were options. Looks like innovation has peeked on the old bell curve of auto technology.
Not sure what was reported or you heard, but that's not remotely true.
First I can't find whole year stats for 2015 yet. The half-year or 3/4 year results that google reports shows the first increase (of around 9%) in a DECADE. So maybe there is something to increased distraction playing a roll. BUT a DECADE of decreases and historical figures show we're still WAY OFF from the 50-60k/year deaths of the 50's and 60's. And even MORE off if you look at it as deaths/population (as the population has increased significantly too in that time).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year#Motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/11/24/motor-vehicle-traffic-fatalities-2014/76304940/
WASHINGTON – Traffic deaths fell last year to 32,675, continuing a nearly decade-long series of declines in the key safety statistic, but federal officials warned Tuesday of a troubling increase in fatalities during the first half of 2015.
The 2014 total roadway deaths of motorists, bicyclists and pedestrians represented a 0.1% decline from the previous year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced. But estimates for the first six months of 2015 signal an increase in fatalities, rising 8.1% to 16,225 from the same period last year.
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I still remember a Johnny Carson monolog. The day before a Memorial Day weekend in 1975.
"There will be over 600 people killed on the highways this weekend. To those 600 I will say goodbye now."
Yep, it is nostalgic to think about cars of our youth. Yep, they were easy to work on (in some cases) and I could repair just about anything on the car. Good thing too, cause new plugs and minor tuneup every 10k, carb rebuild at 20k, valve job at 50-75k, overhaul around 100k. Now I have vehicles that go 100k with only fluid and filter changes (and some well beyond that).
Superfluous stuff. Yep, tons of it. Why have a heater or ac? No need for heated or electric seats. What about all that mandated stuff like seat belt warnings and airbags. Then there are the electric windows, heated rearview mirrors, soundproofing, power steering, power brakes, cup holders, etc, etc.
OTOH, I LIKE all that stuff and am willing to pay extra for it. On the multi-day cross country trips I like to be comfortable and have those extras.
PS and, yes, I would like a real cruise control and ABS on my bike. Even an integrated GPS would be nice.
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What is always bothersome to me is when they do these annual comparisons without noting if the difference is statistically significant (a figure which can be mathematically calculated) or if the difference is just variable fluctuations which are meaningless and do not illustrate any trends. Mostly they just report the raw difference and then use that meaningless number to support whichever position they care to support. I don't have access to the raw data or the statistical skills to do the proper calculations with any confidence but as a mechanical engineer (retired) vaguely familiar with statistical analysis I would doubt that a one year fluctuation of plus or minus even as much as 5% had any real statistical significance or indicated any meaningful trend in traffic fatalities. I would like to know the percentage of difference that would actually be considered statistically significant if anyone knows it.
However I agree with the comment on complexity of operation. My 2010 Rav-4 not super deluxe model came with two volumes of owners manual (one for the car and one for the audio/communications system) which I still haven't found the time to read through and just the other day I discovered that I apparently have a separate headlight switch position that turns on just fog lamps (?). Go figure.
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But I think we're headed toward the driverless car era. If you can just get in and tell the car where to go, then you'll want a mobile office or entertainment center with all kinds of superfluous things like a massage chair, refrigerator, and coffee maker.
Brothers and Sisters rise up NOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU
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Yep, it is nostalgic to think about cars of our youth. Yep, they were easy to work on (in some cases) and I could repair just about anything on the car. Good thing too, cause new plugs and minor tuneup every 10k, carb rebuild at 20k, valve job at 50-75k, overhaul around 100k. Now I have vehicles that go 100k with only fluid and filter changes (and some well beyond that).
Superfluous stuff. Yep, tons of it. Why have a heater or ac? No need for heated or electric seats. What about all that mandated stuff like seat belt warnings and airbags. Then there are the electric windows, heated rearview mirrors, soundproofing, power steering, power brakes, cup holders, etc, etc.
OTOH, I LIKE all that stuff and am willing to pay extra for it. On the multi-day cross country trips I like to be comfortable and have those extras.
PS and, yes, I would like a real cruise control and ABS on my bike. Even an integrated GPS would be nice.
I guess it depends on how old you are and what cars you pick as an example. I was 16 in '79. I now own a '79 Mercedes 300CD with 200k miles. I have almost all of the service records for it from day one. Makes for really boring reading - nothing much ever went wrong for the first 25 years. Still no valve jobs, no overhauls, just shocks and other steering and suspension bits, brakes, batteries, starter, radiator - age related stuff. Climate control no longer works - wish it had the simple manual controls of the 240D and Euro 300D. Still has excellent heat, you just have to manipulate the controls manually. I'd rather it had manual windows and sunroof as well. It has power steering and power brakes, plenty of sound deadening. I don't need nor want heated and/or power seats. I'd rather have a manual transmission instead of the automatic, but that's the way the US models came. No cup holders - just as it should be. A more comfortable car I've never driven.
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I'm doing an experiment, and that's how long I can go without the superfluous bits on my car as they break.
Driver's side window mechanism.. check - hasn't worked in 2-years. Makes me avoid Fast Food drive through, therefore I eat healthier +
Rear passenger window mechanism - check - they haven't worked in 3 or 4 years - I rarely have passengers, so not an issue
Front grille... fell out a few months ago... As a buddy of mine said "you are taking debadging to a whole new level" I actually like the look +
A few interior trim pieces, mainly covers for the seat mechanism - They just hang there since the clips broke and are held on by the switches
More parts will probably shatter and fall off before winter is over I'm sure.
I drive an '03 540i 6-speed. The car still looks cool, but all the plastic parts are pretty much failing due to the cold winters (not this year especially, but over and over). I'd probably won't ever buy a new car unless I moved to in an area where weather isn't so brutal on vehicles.
I'd love to just have engine, transmissions, lights, roll up windows, great brakes and suspension. The rest is superfluous and is a pain to maintain.
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My standpoint is probably different from all of yours. I am autistic; although I have worked throughout my adult life I have never had successful employment. I work smart and hard and honest. I make few errors and I get a lot done. I frequently end up doing work of others. But I lack some sort of social skill set and do not get credit for what I have done. I do the work; someone else gets the raise and promotion. I get fired.
I like to say that I have aspired to poverty. The cycle of poverty includes motor vehicles. Usually I buy a clunker. People have asked me why OI just don't buy a new Toyota and have a decent car; I tell them that I have never had a job long enough to pay one off! My vehicles are usually cheap to buy but costly to own. I push them down the road costly mile after costly mile; repair after repair.
From my standpoint any superfluous complexity is just more stuff to fail and so more stuff to repair. Some of the unneeded features may be such that I can just leave them failed and live with it. Other things are not so easily ignored. Here is a case in point. Opening windows is a good thing. Now when my old truck, a 1987 Chevrolet R 20H got to the point of its passenger window failing to roll down; I pulled the door panel off then cleaned and lubed the winder components and there it was, an operational window. When the power passenger window failed in my later 2002 Chevrozook Tracker, the body shop told me that it would cost abut six hundred dollars to repair. Here is another, I have had to hang starters into various vehicles. Rebuilt goes for about forty clams. But the install of a starter onto that same Tracker was nearly impossible without a lift. Off to the professional spanner spinner. Total about six and a half partly due to the Chinese puzzle install and partly due to the cost of a gear down starter.
I look at unnecessary complexity as cost risers and as reasons to park a vehicle and walk. As such, I see nearly everything as superfluous. I would take a Flintstone car!
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I wanted a work car, gas mileage being chief concern. It had to be an automatic so the Mrs could drive it. I wanted headroom and the ability to spread out a little when I drive (narrow door.) I wanted a port to connect my phone or ipod to the sound system for the yearly 2000 mile round trips I take to see family. I ended up with the low end Nissan Versa. 40 mpg. CV transmission. Heat, A/C, crank windows. I had a cruise control installed. Will have window tint installed. The only thing I miss as a convenience is the power lock doors. They come in handy. It gets better MPG than the sidecar. I may put a hitch on it to tow a tiny trailer for a small 250cc bike. Throw a cot tent in the trunk, camp chair...the perfect KERA coach. :wink:
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First I can't find whole year stats for 2015 yet. The half-year or 3/4 year results that google reports shows the first increase (of around 9%) in a DECADE. So maybe there is something to increased distraction playing a roll. BUT a DECADE of decreases and historical figures show we're still WAY OFF from the 50-60k/year deaths of the 50's and 60's. And even MORE off if you look at it as deaths/population (as the population has increased significantly too in that time).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year#Motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/11/24/motor-vehicle-traffic-fatalities-2014/76304940/
Total miles driven was up significantly for 2015 due to cheap fuel prices.
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Our two daily drivers are late 90's Jeep Cherokees. 5 speed manual transmission with straight axles front and rear and the transfer case is controlled by mechanical linkage.....They do have working AC, airbags and power windows but no ABS or stability control. Compact, rugged, parts fall off but they keep on running. Our truck is a 68 Chevy 4x4 manual transmission with no power steering or brakes...
I see no need for newer cars/trucks that are expensive and easy to damage....And my bikes fall into the less is better category...
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I was watching Motorweek on TV the other week and they spent more time talking about the "convenience" and "connectivity" features of some cars than they did about the handling and performance. :rolleyes: I don't understand the need for "connectivity" in a car when what you're supposed to be doing is driving. Even if it's for the passengers, it's still a distraction IMO. Huge touch screens on the dash to operate the radio, heat, etc. are also ridiculous.
Chances are very good that I'll never buy another new car because they all come with crap I don't want.
You may not like this then. I wonder if comes with driver's gloves?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XxvqFOj0r0
Tobit :cool:
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Just the basics. Ash tray. Cigarett lighter. Fuzzy Dice! :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/car-interior-fuzzy-dice-20338246_zpseii6esjy.jpg)
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This thread is making me want to Cafe' my car...
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The simplicity always amazes me when when I see a 60s or early 70 vintage pickup with a straight six. However my first car was used 66 Fury III with the 318. I remember well all it took (and that was quite a bit) to keep it running reasonably well. About a year ago I drove a nice original 62 Chevrolet Belair 283 for a a short ways. Forgot all the rattles those cars used to have, body roll in turns and not exactly tight steering. Nice to drive in a parade once in awhile but that would be about it.
I think a fairly simple and relativly inexpensive car could be made currently and meet all the requirements but it would produce to low of sales to be viable. Would be kind of on the scale of selling Guzzis.
GliderJohn
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I guess it depends on how old you are and what cars you pick as an example. I was 16 in '79. I now own a '79 Mercedes 300CD with 200k miles. I have almost all of the service records for it from day one. Makes for really boring reading - nothing much ever went wrong for the first 25 years. Still no valve jobs, no overhauls, just shocks and other steering and suspension bits, brakes, batteries, starter, radiator - age related stuff. Climate control no longer works - wish it had the simple manual controls of the 240D and Euro 300D. Still has excellent heat, you just have to manipulate the controls manually. I'd rather it had manual windows and sunroof as well. It has power steering and power brakes, plenty of sound deadening. I don't need nor want heated and/or power seats. I'd rather have a manual transmission instead of the automatic, but that's the way the US models came. No cup holders - just as it should be. A more comfortable car I've never driven.
Your car was spitzenklasse when it came out. It had all the gizmos one could imagine then. The whole thing is vacuum operated. If the door lock fails the trans will shift hard and the engine won't turn off. The climate controls are also vacuum operated. Once you get your head around it. It's not to terrible. However, todays electronics are easier to trouble shoot and more modular. Too bad the quality declined. You own the worlds finest car imho.
Modern and old features I find silly:
Electric parking brake
Push button start
Fake wood
Fake carbon fiber
Temperature gauge (the dummy ones)
Sport buttons
Paddle shift slush boxes
Fake engine sound tracks
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Your car was spitzenklasse when it came out. It had all the gizmos one could imagine then. The whole thing is vacuum operated. If the door lock fails the trans will shift hard and the engine won't turn off. The climate controls are also vacuum operated. Once you get your head around it. It's not to terrible. However, todays electronics are easier to trouble shoot and more modular. Too bad the quality declined. You own the worlds finest car imho.
Modern and old features I find silly:
Electric parking brake
Push button start
Fake wood
Fake carbon fiber
Temperature gauge (the dummy ones)
Sport buttons
Paddle shift slush boxes
Fake engine sound tracks
You dont find the mercedes air pressure central locking silly? Although that might have been 1969, unlikly to still work after so many years. it was neat until it was discovered half a tennis ball over the lock and a quick pump opened the doors.
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You dont find the mercedes air pressure central locking silly? Although that might have been 1969, unlikly to still work after so many years. it was neat until it was discovered half a tennis ball over the lock and a quick pump opened the doors.
Negative pressure/vacuum operates my central locking and numerous other things. Not sure where you'd apply a tennis ball... :laugh:
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Pretty much, if it doesn't make the vehicle:
Move
Slow and stop
Steer
Stand up when parked (2 wheelers)
Keep the weather off me (4 wheelers)
Keep it locked / secure
Then I would rather not have to ever repair it. Best way to avoid repair of some thing is to have that thing somewhere other than on my vehicle.
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I have a moral problem with some of the new luxury cars that artificially pipe in motor sound on demand. As I get it, they have made their cars sound insulation so good, that a great deal of the motor sound is subdued, to counter this they have mic'd and wired the motor, so at the push of a button the hurley burley sounds of a rushing motor come out the freaking speakers!
Thats just sick. And we wonder why ISIS wants to kill us? :wink:
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I was watching Motorweek on TV the other week and they spent more time talking about the "convenience" and "connectivity" features of some cars than they did about the handling and performance. :rolleyes: I don't understand the need for "connectivity" in a car when what you're supposed to be doing is driving. Even if it's for the passengers, it's still a distraction IMO. Huge touch screens on the dash to operate the radio, heat, etc. are also ridiculous.
Chances are very good that I'll never buy another new car because they all come with crap I don't want.
I agree that there is far to much emphasis on connectivity, who the heck needs to be on the web while in a car. In my business we travel a fair amount and I insist that all my staff rent cars for out of town travel, we get our cars from Enterprise and we get a lot of Kia and Hyundai products (mostly great) and some Mitsubishi (so so) and a few Chryslers (yech!). The Japanese cars have so many USB and power ports you would think you were in an office and the electronic interface is pretty easy to use. My 2012 BMW 550Xi has one USB port hidden in the console, the focus is on driving not messing around with gizmos.
As far as traction control, stability control, ABS et all... without it most of us, me included would get ourselves into a lot of trouble without it, as horsepower goes up the ability for the average driver to keep it all together is a bit much. My heavy Beemer has 400 rear wheel horsepower which in todays world is not much anymore, but it will blow the doors off any 60's muscle car out there. The 2015 - 2016 big euro sedans have 450 ~ 500 horsepower stock and tuner models are now 600 hp from the dealer. 600 hp in a four door five seater family sedan, nuts.
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Pretty much, if it doesn't make the vehicle:
Move
Slow and stop
Steer
Stand up when parked (2 wheelers)
Keep the weather off me (4 wheelers)
Keep it locked / secure
Then I would rather not have to ever repair it. Best way to avoid repair of some thing is to have that thing somewhere other than on my vehicle.
:thumb: "What isn't there, can't break".
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There is a current ad (Chevy Malibu I think) that touts all of the technology that comes stock , none of it having anything to do with performance , durability ,or fuel mileage . No mention of the basic car .
Dusty
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There is a current ad (Chevy Malibu I think) that touts all of the technology that comes stock , none of it having anything to do with performance , durability ,or fuel mileage . No mention of the basic car .
Dusty
yeah. That Malibu is at least two or three of the cars I would not want.
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You dont find the mercedes air pressure central locking silly? Although that might have been 1969, unlikly to still work after so many years. it was neat until it was discovered half a tennis ball over the lock and a quick pump opened the doors.
My point was that his car was once the one with all the silly bits. It's not very obvious from my post after reading it again I will admit. As one who has rebuilt the entire vacuum system in a w123 I can only answer yes to your question. I suppose my enthusiasm for the car made it difficult to write about it in a critiquing way.
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My point was that his car was once the one with all the silly bits.
It's all relative. A '51 170D would have less "silly bits" on it, the same as my 300CD has less than a 2016 E-Class. The Benz Patent Motorwagen would have even less and the 170D would be deemed positively decadent. :laugh:
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I still miss the simplicity of my old Vanagon, 4 speed, wind up windows, no A/C, no cruise, no power locks, but what other vehicle came stock with a fridge, kitchen sink and stove top!
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Favourite though is a Peugeot 504 with the slant 2 litre four.
Took a VERY big stick to kill one, and from '72 they had Discs
all round, four coil rear Susp. Rack & Pinion steering, the motor
was excellent and it had the best seats I've ever had in a car.
Maurie
:1: on that. We had the Ti model with the analogue Kugglefischer fuel injection. 110 neddies from a 2litre back then was fairly good. As it tore up the Takaka Hill in (mostly) top gear I used to dream of having a higher 5th gear in the 4 speed box. Still the only car I could do 300 miles non stop and get out feeling the same as when I first got in it.
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Peugeot 504. Never owned one. One of the cars I like.
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Must add that when we got the '90 205 Peugeot we went looking for the most basic car we could find. My only gripe was that it had electronic ignition i9nstead of points.
For a 1400cc basic car with a single choke carb it went like stink, cornered like it was on rails, seats folded down flat so you could go ballroom dancing in it, comfortable and it did 45 (imp) miles to the gallon. Would sit at 85mph all day. Probably the best car I have ever owned. 1/4 hr to change the cam belt while reading the manual. Basic is good. :thumb:
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The big question is can one cook a sweet potato on the exhaust manifold, and if so what sort of beer to have with it?
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Well this thread has taken off more than I expected!!
Here's another one
Electric parking brakes - WTF :violent1: :violent1:
There not even an improvement over the manual version IMO
They don't come on until they're good and ready
And if you do a hill start and change your mind for some reason then you're left scrabbling around for a stupid little switch before the car rolls backwards in to the car behind
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My sister has an electronic trash can. It replaces a regular kitchen trash can with foot pedal. But the electronic one requires one to dance about as if they have a disease of some sort for its sensor to open the lid, usually this means one hand full of trash and the other empty to wave about with. Then after it has been driving her crazy by saluting like the toilets in "No Time For Sergeants", she turns it off and now the lid must be raised and lowered by hand. Either way it is a stunning improvement over the pedal.
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Electric parking brakes - WTF :violent1: :violent1:
The son has a power steering and wheel alignment business. He really hates some of the stupid handbrake systems being used. There is a bit of "brake on, brake off" involved and some of them are just hopeless to use.
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/best_car_costume_5_zps0nsosepu.jpg)
Curb feelers. Nice! :boozing:
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my old truck, a 1987 Chevrolet R 20H
What is a Chevrolet R 20H ??
For me, GM trucks have been cheap to own. My current ride is a 2002 Suburban. 275,000 miles on the clock. Really durable and reliable, with gasoline and oil changes being the most expensive parts of ownership.
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My point was that his car was once the one with all the silly bits. It's not very obvious from my post after reading it again I will admit. As one who has rebuilt the entire vacuum system in a w123 I can only answer yes to your question. I suppose my enthusiasm for the car made it difficult to write about it in a critiquing way.
Sorry I actually meant to quote ACC, I'd missed your post which I have now read. I probably should not have posted at all as I see you already commented on the vacuum system. I think despite having a dig at his Merc we and ACC are probably in agreement that era of Merc w123 was a very good car in its basic form and in hindsight that was the one to have not the one with all the gadgets.
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:thumb: "What isn't there, can't break".
+1
My first NEW car, in 1986, cost $6050 out the door. It had crank-up windows, no AC, no radio. I drove it for 12 years and 240k miles. I ultimately gave it away to a needy young couple. What gripes me is we no longer have the option of buying a car stripped to only what is required. Clearly we are in the minority and there is no market for such a vehicle.
CR
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We talking about tech now?
(http://s18.postimg.org/hcx3g6j6x/IMG_20160224_232400.png) (http://postimg.org/image/jhhgh9kth/full/)
It was frosty this morning, by the time I was ready to drive home I had a text from the car reminding me of my bad habits (http://postimage.org/)
Imagine tomorrow I'll get another gentle warning not to leave too much clutter I the trunk.
..... I had previously thought the wife was a nag? It's given me some personality (f&@+ spell checkers on at me now!) Perspective!
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What is a Chevrolet R 20H ??
For me, GM trucks have been cheap to own. My current ride is a 2002 Suburban. 275,000 miles on the clock. Really durable and reliable, with gasoline and oil changes being the most expensive parts of ownership.
I had trouble with its identity at auto parts stores! In 1987 for reasons unknown at least many of Chevrolet's light trucks were not called either C or K for 2 and 4WD respectively. They were all R. One had to know this to find correct parts. The 20H is that it was essentially a 30 series non dually badged as a 20 because 1 ton insures at a higher rate. It was an R 20 Heavy. It was indeed legally a medium duty truck. It ran on a 350 V8...but not an automotive 350. K NA4. 4 bolt mains, cast nodular iron crankshaft, stronger pistons, stronger rods, a medium truck engine. And mine had been custom ordered by an oil yard service company and was the heaviest carrying 20 possible at that date. It sat like a lifted 4WD! And when ordering parts I had to visual all of them! Hell, it had a wrong year throttle body EFI from the factory. It lasted me a long time. Finally at around 300K the engine was gone and then I found that in that truck an automotive 250 Goodwrench would have no warranty.
That was my (beloved) R 20H.
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Next some of you guys will be suggesting we return to bias ply tires , drum brakes , and vacuum operated windshield wipers :rolleyes:
Dusty
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My first car was a Citroen 2CV, which was salvaged from being a kids "ski hill"
No nanny controls, simplicity at its best. It did about 40mph on a damn big hill, absolute hoot to drive!
(pic is not of my car, but same color and year)
(http://s12.postimg.org/tjfcaaqe5/1955_Citroen_2_CV.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/oetqr6cbb/citroen_2cv_29.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
- Speedo worked with a cable, which drove the windshield wipers. No speed, no wipers. You could turn the knob to get vipers moving though...
- 4 gears with centrifugal clutch. You could leave the car on any gear at traffic lights.
- Windshield washer was a mechanical syringe, which sucked water and squirted it on windshield...
- A/C, sure, open the front manually operated vent.
- Windows, yes, tilted 1/2 way open.
- seats, attached on the floor with 2 hooks, single fabric suspended with rubber bands...
- headlights were adjustable with a knob. Manually.
- blinkers, yes. Manual, took about 5 sec to "warm up" and then they worked. barely.
- start, works, with wire attached to starter lever. Stock.
- Not working, no problem, car came with a steel crank, which you could use. I landed in hospital one night, when it spit the 1 yard long crank on my forehead...
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Next some of you guys will be suggesting we return to bias ply tires , drum brakes , and vacuum operated windshield wipers :rolleyes:
Dusty
my 1972 Super Beetle....please
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my 1972 Super Beetle....please
Too hi-tech , came equipped with an electric starter :laugh:
Dusty
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My first car was a Citroen 2CV, which as salvaged from being a kids "ski hill"
No nanny controls, simplicity at its best. It did about 40mph on a damn big hill, absolute hoot to drive!
(pic is not of my car, but same color and year)
(http://s12.postimg.org/tjfcaaqe5/1955_Citroen_2_CV.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/oetqr6cbb/citroen_2cv_29.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
- Speedo worked with a cable, which drove the windshield wipers. No speed, no wipers. You could turn the knob to get vipers moving though...
- 4 gears with centrifugal clutch. You could leave the car on any gear at traffic lights.
- Windshield washer was a mechanical syringe, which sucked water and squirted it on windshield...
- A/C, sure, open the front manually operated vent.
- Windows, yes, tilted 1/2 way open.
- seats, attached on the floor with 2 hooks, single fabric suspended with rubber bands...
- headlights were adjustable with a knob. Manually.
- blinkers, yes. Manual, took about 5 sec to "warm up" and then they worked. barely.
- start, works, with wire attached to starter lever. Stock.
- Not working, no problem, car came with a steel crank, which you could use. I landed in hospital one night, when it spit the 1 year long crank on my forehead...
OMG! My absolute favourite car of all time; the exquisitely engineered 2CV! I had the opportunity to ride in one once and will always treasure the experience. I like the Tracion behind it in the photo too.