Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobbyfromnc on February 27, 2016, 01:41:58 PM
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Fellow riders, just speaking my mind here. It is what it is...
Topic of Choice... Do I like Moto Guzzi? Yes and no, here's why.
As a Rider... Absolutely Yes, I purchased a 2012 Norge that was new in March of 2015. I can't say enough of how much I enjoy riding this bike. So comfortable, form and function second to nun, handles great. Great vibes and character with an awesome use-able power/torque band from that Guzzi engine. I wanted something different from other riders. I've owned several metric brands, Harley Davidson etc. Guzzi's are as unique as their riders are. I like that.
As a Owner... Well not so much a hearty yes. Why? I have owned the bike just slightly over 11 months so far and its been in the shop totaling just over 4 months... That's right boys and girls a whole 3rd of a year and counting because its still in the shop as I type. 3 times for warranty repairs...
1) Gas Gauge not functioning properly, part had to be ordered, then after a few weeks was called, bike was ready. I live 100 miles one way from dealer, got half way home and smoke starts rolling. Turns out tech routed hoses etc wrong and burnt up stuff. Dealership made it good... After yet more time in shop.
2) Severe oil leak on right cylinder... After a 9 week ordeal that involved a Guzzi tech rep during prime riding season last summer I got the bike back, problem solved. To the dealers credit they did after a few weeks deliver a used guzzi to ride while my bike was being repaired. I was ready to trade at that point but that old guzzi ran like a sewing machine with 25K on it. It renewed my hope in guzzi ownership and hopefully this would be the end of major situations... NOT
3) This past December our holiday season was very warm. My friends and I went riding several times. Then out of clear blue bike would turn over but would not start. Red Triangle and All Caps SERVICE light came on... 9 days later bike cranked just fine, all warning indicators gone. Went on a ride with friends we made many stops that day. Last place we went to leave and bike would not start with all the warnings etc... Long story short, Dealership has had the bike for over a month and counting... ECU bad and naturally they did not have the need part, so they had to order it, turns out Guzzi USA are all out of them to at the moment so they (Guzzi USA) have ordered them from Italy. I was told maybe mid march before they would arrive. So folks that's over 5 months of a motorcycle I am paying for sitting in a dealerships shop.
If it wasn't for the fact I really like this bike, it would have already been history. Its under warranty and I still hope for the best. BUT one more thing goes wrong... I am done.
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So you like your Guzzi, but it sounds like you have a lemon of a bike. Replace it with a new one, courtesy of MG, per the law in your state: http://www.ncdoj.gov/Consumer/Automobiles/Lemon-Law.aspx
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^ That is exactly what I would do. And get a new 2014 or 2015 Norge in the process!
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If it qualifies then it qualifies under your state law but you'll have to pursue it. Don't expect help from the dealership.
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If it qualifies then it qualifies under your state law but you'll have to pursue it. Don't expect help from the dealership.
True. Thanks BK
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So sorry & best of luck. Reminds me of my Mille. Cracked crank, 3 teeth broken off ring gear, chipped teeth on pinion gear & chrome chipping off fork sliders. All under 2,600 miles. Importer at the time bought the bike back after things escalated to where I had to threaten to write every moto mag to simply relate my experience during a time when Guzzi was attempting another comeback. Said I didn't know how to ride a Moto Guzzi. 23rd bike.
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Damn! I've wondered what happened with your latest problem. This has to be extremely frustrating. I was very close to pulling the trigger on a new Norge last September when I read about the problems you were having. Due to the problems that you had, (along with problems others had experienced and also due to dealer concerns) I decided to forget the Norge and buy a different bike.
I've heard enough stories about your servicing dealer to convince me that they are not competent to work on a new Guzzi and if N.C. has a lemon law where your bike would qualify, I wouldn't waste another day screwing around with this bike and this dealer. Life is too short. I wish you the best with getting this problem put to bed, one way or the other; as soon as possible.
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Most lemon laws are pretty straightforward but they do have time constraints, often something like within 18 months of ownership with the complaint being filed within that period.
I can understand your frustration. It seems though (I could be wrong) that quite a bit of time was spent waiting for parts.
The dealer can make a lot of difference. My examples:
New fuel gauge from actual time of order to part install:
4 days
New fuel tank (my go ahead to order): 5 business days
I too have a laundry list of things that went belly up, never really posted about them since they got fixed very quickly. To date, I've not had to wait more than a week maybe plus a few days to have the call saying the parts were in. I show up just before the dealer opens, they hustle the Norge in and shortly after lunch I'm out again.
Agree 100%. As a rider, nothing beats the Norge.
From an owner perspective, like many things, it's only good when you're getting it.
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Fellow riders, just speaking my mind here. It is what it is...
Topic of Choice... Do I like Moto Guzzi? Yes and no, here's why.
As a Rider... Absolutely Yes, I purchased a 2012 Norge that was new in March of 2015. I can't say enough of how much I enjoy riding this bike. So comfortable, form and function second to nun, handles great. Great vibes and character with an awesome use-able power/torque band from that Guzzi engine. I wanted something different from other riders. I've owned several metric brands, Harley Davidson etc. Guzzi's are as unique as their riders are. I like that.
As a Owner... Well not so much a hearty yes. Why? I have owned the bike just slightly over 11 months so far and its been in the shop totaling just over 4 months... That's right boys and girls a whole 3rd of a year and counting because its still in the shop as I type. 3 times for warranty repairs...
1) Gas Gauge not functioning properly, part had to be ordered, then after a few weeks was called, bike was ready. I live 100 miles one way from dealer, got half way home and smoke starts rolling. Turns out tech routed hoses etc wrong and burnt up stuff. Dealership made it good... After yet more time in shop.
2) Severe oil leak on right cylinder... After a 9 week ordeal that involved a Guzzi tech rep during prime riding season last summer I got the bike back, problem solved. To the dealers credit they did after a few weeks deliver a used guzzi to ride while my bike was being repaired. I was ready to trade at that point but that old guzzi ran like a sewing machine with 25K on it. It renewed my hope in guzzi ownership and hopefully this would be the end of major situations... NOT
3) This past December our holiday season was very warm. My friends and I went riding several times. Then out of clear blue bike would turn over but would not start. Red Triangle and All Caps SERVICE light came on... 9 days later bike cranked just fine, all warning indicators gone. Went on a ride with friends we made many stops that day. Last place we went to leave and bike would not start with all the warnings etc... Long story short, Dealership has had the bike for over a month and counting... ECU bad and naturally they did not have the need part, so they had to order it, turns out Guzzi USA are all out of them to at the moment so they (Guzzi USA) have ordered them from Italy. I was told maybe mid march before they would arrive. So folks that's over 5 months of a motorcycle I am paying for sitting in a dealerships shop.
If it wasn't for the fact I really like this bike, it would have already been history. Its under warranty and I still hope for the best. BUT one more thing goes wrong... I am done.
I can relate. I also bought a 2012 new in 2013. Had the gas gauge go also, and when in for repair they found the oil switch leaking. Got bike back 5 months later. Great bike to ride but don't use it as an only bike. I expected issues since it is not a common brand and it has proven correct. Now it has been down for 2 months and counting to have it rollerized since the tappets showed a lot of wear at 11380 miles. Still am not giving up on it since I have a spare to ride. I am disappointed that MG does not really support the brand like they should but I really have bonded with the bike so I will still play.
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I guess I have been lucking. My first Norge had no problems from the factory (only a couple of dealer tech caused problems with a spark plug cap/wire and a clutch lever grub screw). My second Norge has had no problems either (other than a missing dashboard screw and washer (easily replaced at Ace Hardware).
However, if I had problems like yours, I would dump the Norge, get something else, and not look back. Life is too short to miss out on months of good riding.
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Hopefully major problems have been sorted out from 2012 to present.
As a owner of a new 2014 Norge, I expect trouble free riding for a few years.
I get major problems and she is GONE.
FYI:
I have 12,000 miles on a Vespa 300 super and it's been bullet proof. I asked my dealer how long these things last and he said forever.
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In 1982 I bought brand new what I thought would be my dream bike, a Honda Gold Wing: GL 1100C. As I owned it I encountered trouble after trouble. Oil misting everywhere, oil leek from one cylinder head, coolant leak from the other - that sealed as crud built up in the cooling loop, a vibration that shook parts off as I rode, three different speed wobbles, multiple fails of the electric start, recalled tyres, bad paint. . . Two wonderful days were when I bought it and when I sold it. And yes I was honest with the buyer.
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WOW! I trucked my 2011 Norge to Harpers recently to rollerize it and see where all my oil was coming from, which turned out to be loose fittings. Are Harpers cheap, no. But all the above was repaired (and I am guessing correctly) in less than ten calendar days, plus being test ridden. I just need to get my butt back up there to get it.
GliderJohn
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Thanks for everyone's input and opinions. I have tried to be positive during all of this. I know from time to time something will go wrong. But I swear of all the bikes I've owned... Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson I have never been through anything like this. Thanks BK
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Thanks for everyone's input and opinions. I have tried to be positive during all of this. I know from time to time something will go wrong. But I swear of all the bikes I've owned... Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson I have never been through anything like this. Thanks BK
To me, at some point it is a matter of trust. Do I trust the machine to get me there and then back home; to bot bust my bank account; and in case of the handling troubles I had with the GL, with my life. I fired it.
I hope that you come up with a solution acceptable to your mind and soul.
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For what its worth I sent an email to this guy with the text of my post and a link to it. Don't know what good it will do but at this point I don't see how it could hurt.
Erik Larson
Director, Technical Services
Piaggio Group Americas, Inc.
646-747-6067
elarson@piaggiogroupamericas.com
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To me, at some point it is a matter of trust. Do I trust the machine to get me there and then back home; to bot bust my bank account; and in case of the handling troubles I had with the GL, with my life. I fired it.
I hope that you come up with a solution acceptable to your mind and soul.
Thanks. BK
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For what its worth I sent an email to this guy with the text of my post and a link to it. Don't know what good it will do but at this point I don't see how it could hurt.
Erik Larson
Director, Technical Services
Piaggio Group Americas, Inc.
646-747-6067
elarson@piaggiogroupamericas.com
I wish you all of the best.
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I got my Guzzi when I was 18, that was 8 years ago. I sold my first starter bike a Yamaha Virago 1000 which was hilariously entertaining when I was 18 because of the starter grinding noise and, electrical issues that were getting to difficult solve cheaply.
So I was searching for a new bike seen all the Jap bike dealers, I seen a Used Suzuki TL1000R that I was about to pull the trigger on then one night I was searching EBAY and there was a BIG RED GLORY OF AN 06 MOTO GUZZI BREVA V1100.
So I asked my dad when he was still kicking, what he thought about Moto Guzzi. He pulled out some pictures and showed me him on his 850 Lemans that was ironically RED. Yapped about his bike for a couple minutes and explained to me Luigi wired all the Guzzi's. He rewired the Lemans and put a car battery in the poor thing.
I've been a happy owner of the same bike for 8 years until recently, issues with the electronics for eons the associated drive ability that comes with crap electronics from 10 yrs ago . To be honest I am just short of fabricating an intake manifold to put a 2 Barrel Holley Carburetor on it with and MSD ignition. Kicking Luigi to the sewer pipe.
Do I regret my decision for buying a Guzzi? HELL NO!!! The old Breva is a awesome still looks good leaks some oil from the side of the engine, but I really don't care. It has survived 18,000 Miles of me Beating the crap out of the REV Limiter, taking it to places like gravel pits, trails and commuting to and from New Orleans' Beirut streets.
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^^^
???
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Bought 2 a few years apart, a Call II, and a V65, both 1984's. I have always had a soft spot for them because they have genuine character and mechanical presence. The thing is, there is always something that needs attention, but they are tinkerer's bikes. Real bikers are tinkerers, :wink: you know. But none of the necessary tinkering ever cost a big pile of money, and they've always brought me home. Some guys want to be more involved than sitting on top for awhile and then put it away until later. As long as it ain't major.
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I always liked tinkering. In general, being able to tinker with my bike has lowered operating costs, always a large issue of mine. But also I have felt a wonderful connection to my machine by way of being able to maintain it. As my bikes grew more complex and required more specialized tools and training I lost a great deal of the ability to tinker and the worm feelings that maintaining my bike gave me; whether the joy of feeling it run just a bit better than before I hauled out the spanners, or the confidence of knowing that a failure en route nowhere was both unlikely and probably easily rectified roadside.
I recall a very specific thought that crossed my mind while riding such a bike. I wondered who actually owned the beast; was it me or the crew chief at the shop who would allow me to ride it so long as I kept the maintenance up.
But bear in mind that I mean tinkering; this is in my parlance maintenance more than repair. Big items going wrong when they ought not is something entirely different.
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If I buy a NEW Guzzi (or any other NEW bike), I expect the dealer to do all of the mechanical repairs if something breaks. I've always enjoyed doing the routine servicing.
If I buy a USED Guzzi that's out of warranty, I don't expect the dealer (or MG) to take care of problems unless they're too far above my expertise to repair them.
In this case, the OP bought a NEW Guzzi and has had lot's of problems. A reasonable person can only tolerate so much aggravation before throwing in the towel and in this case, he's gone longer than I would have before reaching his boiling point. I know nothing of N.C. lemon laws but if their lemon laws apply to this bike, I hope that he can get his problem resolved quickly and to his satisfaction.
I wouldn't let this problem stop me from owning another Guzzi BUT I would have to find another dealer that is better qualified to repair a Guzzi if I bought another new one.
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If I buy a NEW Guzzi (or any other NEW bike), I expect the dealer to do all of the mechanical repairs if something breaks. I've always enjoyed doing the routine servicing.
If I buy a USED Guzzi that's out of warranty, I don't expect the dealer (or MG) to take care of problems unless they're too far above my expertise to repair them.
In this case, the OP bought a NEW Guzzi and has had lot's of problems. A reasonable person can only tolerate so much aggravation before throwing in the towel and in this case, he's gone longer than I would have before reaching his boiling point. I know nothing of N.C. lemon laws but if their lemon laws apply to this bike, I hope that he can get his problem resolved quickly and to his satisfaction.
I wouldn't let this problem stop me from owning another Guzzi BUT I would have to find another dealer that is better qualified to repair a Guzzi if I bought another new one.
That's the problem, Atlanta... 4.5 hrs away, Richmond VA... 4.5 hrs away, Near Nashville Tenn, approx 9 hrs away. I like Guzzi, but I am within a nat's hair of tossing in the towel. Sunday was stunningly beautiful here in NC. Motorcycles everywhere... Mines locked up in a shop 100 miles away (waiting on a part that at least should have been in stock with Guzzi USA) All while I am making monthly payments and lets not forget the insurance. Grrrr
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That's the problem, Atlanta... 4.5 hrs away, Richmond VA... 4.5 hrs away, Near Nashville Tenn, approx 9 hrs away. I like Guzzi, but I am within a nat's hair of tossing in the towel. Sunday was stunningly beautiful here in NC. Motorcycles everywhere... Mines locked up in a shop 100 miles away (waiting on a part that at least should have been in stock with Guzzi USA) All while I am making monthly payments and lets not forget the insurance. Grrrr
Always got the Vespa 300, she has never let me down. :boozing:
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Always got the Vespa 300, she has never let me down. :boozing:
Many people posting here have multiple bikes, that makes tinkering or diving into repairs easier, if the bike is laid up, ride the other one, or two or herd bikes.
But when someone spends over 10 grand OTD on a bike with a warranty, the warranty is something they've paid for, it wasn't free. Small things can be a nuisance butnshow stoppers need to get fixed or you're paying for nothing.
This example is very unfortunate, once you go sour on a brand altogether it's over and it also bleeds over to people they know, this doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Hopefully, if the OP sticks it out, this is the last time it needs to be sorted because after a while sorted means shafted.
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^ OP: Why are you not pursuing a remedy under NC's lemon law?
At this rate, that would probably be faster than repairing your bike, you would get your money back, and you could then do something different, whether it is another Norge, another Moto Guzzi, a Triumph Thruxton R (!!!), or whatever.
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Parts availability in the US is one of the biggest downfalls of MG in my opinion.
But then, it is the reason I own multiple Guzzis. Maybe that IS their plan. :evil:
I just waited over 3 months for rod bolts.
Generally speaking, once you are out of warranty you are better off. Most parts are fairly easy to find from alternate sources. (not those damn rod bolts though)
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Major reason I've bought most of my Guzzi's used from other owners that have gone through warranty issues and depreciation. Only bike I bought new was a Daytona 1000.
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The used Guzzi approach works great except you are relying on new Guzzi buyers to buy the bikes in the first place. It's sad that they keep pissing them and their dealers off.
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Some time ago on this forum was a thread about - roughly - what kind of bike should Moto Guzzi make. I have an idea that MG can have for free.
1. Pretty much what they already make but save money on yearly changes for the need of new models. Change the paint and use the time and funds to slowly perfect each model; making sure that any critical improvement can be retrofitted to older bikes.
2. Concentrate on serving the dealers and riders. Have a good inventory of parts and the network needed (There is USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL. . .already.) to keep owners; bikes running.
That is to go for a reputation of being absolutely the best motorcycles for serious use and satisfaction. This would seem to go well with their already existing niche, and as for parts production, they already have some degree of experience with this. The final production of the Falcone was on a limited basis to fill orders. A small company ought to be precisely what is needed for this approach.
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2. Concentrate on serving the dealers and riders. Have a good inventory of parts and the network needed (There is USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL. . .already.) to keep owners; bikes running.
I think they are incompetent to deliver the traditional motorcycle business model through a dealer network. If they were thinking they would go more to a direct sales approach and arrange for service at dealers local to their customers instead of hoping for customers local to their very few dealers. For as few a bikes as they are selling they could become cutting edge in the motorcycle world. Maybe add 4g wireless connections to the bikes so that they can self diagnose issues and send the owner a text saying that the bike needs attention (a modern idiot light!). Then the service center calls the local dealer, ships the parts, and provides support via Skype for issues specific to Guzzi.
Of course if they might also dramatically increase the number of dis-satisfied Guzzi owners! Oh well, it is what it is...
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I think they are incompetent to deliver the traditional motorcycle business model through a dealer network. If they were thinking they would go more to a direct sales approach and arrange for service at dealers local to their customers instead of hoping for customers local to their (very few dealers). For as few a bikes as they are selling they could become cutting edge in the motorcycle world. Maybe add 4g wireless connections to the bikes so that they can self diagnose issues and send the owner a text saying that the bike needs attention (a modern idiot light!). Then the service center calls the local dealer, ships the parts, and provides support via Skype for issues specific to Guzzi.
Of course if they might also dramatically increase the number of dis-satisfied Guzzi owners! Oh well, it is what it is...
Oh my goodness gosh! Exactly. They could capitalize upon the basic simplicity of the bikes and on their small corporate size. They could do things that larger companies could not. And getting to these goals is within reach. Things that might be seen as problems are actually great advantages to be exploited. The niche appreciating rider is already here, and at MG's sales level even small increases of sales in absolute would be huge in terms of percentage.
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Well, when I win the big lottery I'll acquire the company and follow your advices for a hobby.
[HardAspie], I love that tagline at the bottom of your posts regarding the airfish, but I've been unable to trace it to the source ? Your writing, perhaps ?
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Well, when I win the big lottery I'll acquire the company and follow your advices for a hobby.
[HardAspie], I love that tagline at the bottom of your posts regarding the airfish, but I've been unable to trace it to the source ? Your writing, perhaps ?
I shall eagerly await your winning! Hey, when you've made MG aa wildly successful niche company can I have a deal on one?
I just made that tagline to be a tagline. I have an inner surrealism!
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I like different, and Guzzis are. 1/2 the reason why I started up with Moto Guzzi was because I went to the Illinois rally and was amazed to see so many people riding old stuff halfway across the country or better to get there. People with some age on them and a whole lotta miles that were in the latter stages of their riding years, ending up with a Goose, and happy about it. Today, if I were to buy a Roamer or the Eldo I would worry myself into a nut house until I knew whether or not I got a lemon. It wouldn't bother me if I had a ton of coin and could just drag out another nice bike, but no, that never happened. All of my stuff is old, early 80's is the newest of mine, but then that's the stuff I prefer anyway.
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Well, maybe somebody here can tell us what Aprilia would see as a reasonable offer for the Guzzi line. It appears that they paid about $450 million to get Piaggio.
Then if we all pooled our laundry quarters...
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I'll pledge many.
Here is the truncated version of a sad tale. I'm here because I want a motorcycle. I thought initially of MG. I like the essential simplicity and also the weight of the V7. But here are my troubles. Firstly, to get a V7 would severely tax my financial ability. I could do that perhap. But then I thought of a worst case scenario. . .
. . . involving some sort of bike halting mechanical or electronic problem in the middle of BFE. How far am I from a dealer? Can a usual Japanese bike shop do anything significant or warranty on the broken MG? How many shops are there to choose from, and how nearby and do they have parts and is MG a real seller at that shop and do they care about me and my bike and will I have to pay for a long distance tow and nights at a hotel and food and other unexpected purchases to support the repair on the road?
And I would be extending my finances in the purchase of one. I determined that just the logistics involved could easily hit me for well over a thousand dollars, at which point I see if the dealer will buy it cheap and take the bus home. People have several bikes; my bike will be my only motor vehicle. No reason MG could not nail that to the wall.
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The used Guzzi approach works great except you are relying on new Guzzi buyers to buy the bikes in the first place. It's sad that they keep pissing them and their dealers off.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of people who want to buy new. I don't
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The incremental changes thing has been suggested before. The problem though isn't improving the models through addressing common problems and fixing them, it is knowing what you don't know.
For example: take most car dealer service centers. The service personnel there don't spend their time scouring the Internet to see what problems exist for models of cars the dealer sells. It really isn't their job and they can't just implement fixes on their own unless they are paying for them out of pocket. There might be a new fandangled 3rd part item that fixes a known problem but unless the owner of the car wants to pay for it, the factory sure isn't. I wouldn't either were I making that decision at the factory or the dealership.
If we as a group of owners (not WG, but in general) expect Moto Guzzi to read forums to find out what common problems exist and then acknowledge that, good luck. They aren't going to acknowledge that information because it is all just anonymous people posting and the manufactures has spelled out specific procedures to communicate problems. The question becomes, who does it?
If 100 owners all post that their bikes won't start and then someone comes along with a few pieces of wire and a relay and goes around the factory wiring, think Moto Guzzi is going to acknowledge there is a problem and fix it? Good luck with that too because they haven't fixed it yet.
How could that be with so many threads about the problem and all the posts about the easy fix? Simple, how many of the owners actually experiencing the problem bothered to inform the company of the problem, either directly or by complaining to a dealer? I bet fewer than you could count using fingers. It is far easier to just make up the kit or buy it from someone and be done with it.
So the problem continues and another year goes by and it remains. Who is at fault? Why us of course. Sure Moto Guzzi might have questionable wiring but past that, who did more than run to some forum to talk about it?
Forums are a great place to get help for older bikes and even new models. They are not a replacement for taking the responsibility of informing dealers and/or the factory that a problem exists. Of course, that is often seen as something counter to good practice because it can be construed not to being self sufficient; after all, owning a Moto Guzzi means maintaining, fixing and all that yourself.
If you never or rarely go to a dealer but then expect them to be around when you need them, how does that work? When a dealer sends info about a problem to Moto Guzzi does that carry more weight than if 100 owners all reported the same problem?
Mention a problem with a MG bike of recent manufacture and there will be numerous posts coming from the "me too" crowd. How many of them do more than that? I bet very few. Not enough to make a difference or it would have accomplished something.
When it comes to getting MG to change something or fix it what is the most common retort?
They won't, can't, will not, ... Wasting your time, Guido doesn't care and on and on. Yeah, how many of those bothered to do more than that? Complaining on some forum for years means diddly squat.
If most owners of bikes affected by "startus interruptus" actually complained to Moto Guzzi and nothing happened that would be one thing, but how many can honestly say they did? Maybe a very few. It isn't Moto Guzzi's job to read this or any other forum.
Moto Guzzi has the means to improve it's models, it has done so in the past. I believe that Moto Guzzi wants to improve it's bikes and also wants to sell a lot more of them. Its a business no matter how much emotion is in the company, it is still a business.
Its a simple thing. If your Moto Guzzi of current vintage has a problem, report it. Send the email, it takes seconds. Notify a dealer, in writing if they are far away and even if you fix the problem yourself.
That might not do anything, what is guaranteed 100% is that doing nothing gets nothing. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, HD, BMW didn't fix things because no one reported the problems, they fixed them because owners did report them and the consequence to not fixing them was lost sales. With Moto Guzzi, there is no consequence to not fixing things because it's almost a badge of honor to fix it yourself. Its called the hero syndrome and if you've ever worked in larger organizations, its taught in management training and other disciplines. The hero fixes it and therefore is necessary. The more they fix, the more they are needed. Then one day someone asks why the problem isn't fixed where it starts from and then all hell breaks loose.
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Do think bike manufacturers don't have people checking out the bigger forums on their brands for feedback? If not, then they are truly marketing stupid. I am certain people from the makers are watching.
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I would be.
And I would know the maxim that your most valuable customers are already customers.