Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trogladyte on February 29, 2016, 04:32:25 AM
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Huge wood-screw in the rear tyre yesterday. Tyre was new at the end of October, so has no more than 800 miles on it. Screw was right in the middle of the tread.
I needed to use the bike - my Griso is a working bike. It's my main means of transport, and I use it pretty much every day. So I called the RAC and they fitted a plug. I've had these before, and have treated them as a permanent repair, and left them for the life of the tyre.
But the RAC guy said 280 miles max at 40 mph.
Seriously?
So what do we think? Is the plug safe? And could I have a permanent internal mushroom repair now that it has a temporary plug?
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I have heard of people running a plug for some time without incident. It is generally assumed though, that it is not good practice. If the belts inside the tire were damaged, and likely they were with the puncture, they could fail with use.
I know it is not what you would like to hear, but I would replace the tire as soon as practical. After all, a tire failure on a bike could be much worse than in a car. It stinks though.
John Henry
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I have heard of people running a plug for some time without incident. It is generally assumed though, that it is not good practice. If the belts inside the tire were damaged, and likely they were with the puncture, they could fail with use.
I know it is not what you would like to hear, but I would replace the tire as soon as practical. After all, a tire failure on a bike could be much worse than in a car. It stinks though.
John Henry
You wouldn't trust a "permanent" mushroom repair? Even the manufacturers say they are OK - subject to proper inspection for damage etc.
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I wouldn't but that is me. Regardless of the actual position of the puncture/repair, in a tread block or between them, there would be no way of knowing if the belts were compromised inside the tire.
From Dunlop's site:
13 - Tire Repair
Some punctures in motorcycle tires may be repaired.
Dunlop recommends only permanent plug-patch repairs of small (maximum 1/4-inch diameter) tread-area punctures from within the dismounted tire by a qualified tire repair shop or motorcycle dealer. Never perform an exterior repair and never use an inner tube as a substitute for a proper repair. Speed should not exceed 50 mph for the first 24 hours after repair, and the repaired tire should never be used over 75 mph. Advise your customer to check inflation pressure after tire cools for at least three (3) hours following run-in, or sooner if air loss is suspected. See the Dunlop Service Advisory for additional motorcycle tubeless-tire repair information. Follow the same repair procedures for tires on rims requiring tube replacement. The repairer is solely responsible for the repair and any instructions to the repaired-tire user.
Advise your customers that no form of temporary repair should be attempted because secondary damage caused by a penetrating object may not be detected and tire or tube deflation may occur at a later date.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of liquid sealants. These are a form of temporary repair, and they may adversely affect ply material and mask secondary damage caused by a penetrating object. Advise your customers that reliance upon sealants can result in sudden tire failure and accident.
John Henry
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Its all subjective I suppose
My take would be treat the plug as a temporary repair until the first convenient opportunity comes along to get the tyre to a dealer or tyre specialist to inspect. I'd also avoid any high speed with an external plug.
If its in the center of the tread there is a good chance that a mushroom plug can be inserted from the inside.
I've had mushroom plugs in tyres where the puncture has been caused by screws or nails on a Ducati which pushes the tyres a lot harder than a Guzzi is capable of doing.
Providing its in the center of the tread tyre specilaists have told me its Ok, fitted a plug and off I went and never had a problem.
I'm more of the nervous type too and was inclined to get a new tyre, but after reassurance and now experience, I wouldn't think twice about it.
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I have plugged many a tire and never had any problem. This includes high-performance machines.
The externally inserted "rope" repairs go in, you twist them and they form their own mushroom head.
Nowadays, tire manufacturers and repair shops are scared to death of lawsuits and the cost of having to defend them. By advising the rider to just buy a new tire, they eliminate the possibility of even a frivolous suit and they may sell a new tire to boot.
If you are worrisome about it, change it. If it was mine, I'd keep the plug in it and go on.
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Maybe a better question to ask is: has anyone ever had a tire plug fail and if so what we're the circumstances?
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I have plugged many a tire and never had any problem. This includes high-performance machines.
The externally inserted "rope" repairs go in, you twist them and they form their own mushroom head.
Nowadays, tire manufacturers and repair shops are scared to death of lawsuits and the cost of having to defend them. By advising the rider to just buy a new tire, they eliminate the possibility of even a frivolous suit and they may sell a new tire to boot.
If you are worrisome about it, change it. If it was mine, I'd keep the plug in it and go on.
You'd run on the rope external plug?
I've done that in the past - with several plugs, and worn the tyre out!
I am planning to go for a mushroom replacement. Sometime...
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You'd run on the rope external plug?
I've done that in the past - with several plugs, and worn the tyre out!
I am planning to go for a mushroom replacement. Sometime...
Yes, I'd run on the externally-inserted plug. I've done it many times. I probably have one or two bikes now that have plugs in the tires.
You have to make your own decision about what to do. I'm just giving you my experience over many years and the viewpoint I have for my own self.
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By the way, I am not overly cavalier about tire damage and running on an unsafe tire.
I good friend recently had a bad front-collision accident on his Nuovo Falcone. His front wheel was bent as was his frame and gas tank.
He says his front tire looked non-the-worse for the wreck and wondered if he should re-mount it and use it again.
In THAT situation, I advised a new tire. Such an impact could have torn some plies in the extra-crucial front tire.
As far as a nail etc in the middle of the tread on a rear tire? I have no problem with a plug.
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The only other thing I would take into account is-are you going to take a passenger?any issues and it could get extremely ugly...
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The only other thing I would take into account is-are you going to take a passenger?any issues and it could get extremely ugly...
Unlikely. The wife knows how I ride that thing...
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I can't begin to count the amount of tires I've plugged without having a failure. I put over 10k more on a Dunlop I plugged.
OK. Who is going to come out with the old "If you value your life?" Someone always has to post it when this topic pops up as much as a boner at a school prom.
Tex
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Dynaplug!
I know guys who have run plugs for thousands of miles, for the remainder of the tire life. Not that I'm condoning it, just saying I've never heard of a tire failing because of a plug.
How about this - if you are constantly thinking about it and worrying yourself while riding, then it isn't worth it and you should replace the tire. Otherwise, keep calm and ride on :bike-037:
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I've had one failure with a cheap rope plug. It came out right after I plugged it at a low speed on an old tire. I now use Safety Seal rope plugs.
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"Huge wood-screw"
It might be a concern depending on how it went in but if they used one rope plug, then I wouldn't worry. I have plugged a bunch of tires with no problem and usually ride them till they are done. My inspection when removing the tire has never made me feel this was a problem.
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I've ridden plugs for a long time here in the Midwest. But as Bill used to say,
Comma but..
I had a flat out in SoCal. Plugged it on the side of the road and rode back to the beach. Thought about it for a while and there *are* a lot of places where I ride out there that I don't want to even have a little nagging thought about a tire failure. What price piece of mind? Oh, about 150 bucks. :smiley:
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Maybe a better question to ask is: has anyone ever had a tire plug fail and if so what we're the circumstances?
Unfortunately, I've plugged a bunch of tires over the years. Getting flats sucks...
I've never had a plug fail where it was a small, clean puncture and one string plug was required to seal it. Sometimes I've run plugged tires for thousands of miles with no speed restriction. The last one I had was in Telluride Colorado. I plugged it, and rode home a thousand miles.
On the other hand, the only time I've had string plugs fail was in a ragged hole in the rear tire that required three plugs to seal the tire. The plugs blew out on the highway, with a rapid deflation. It was a bit hairy getting the bike slowed and stopped at the side of the road. I really should've replaced the tire before riding it again, but was on a schedule I thought I needed to keep. Blowing the plugs out on a Monday meant I had to wait until Tuesday to get a new tire at the nearest dealer. I should've replaced the tire on the previous Saturday. I won't make that mistake again. The reason I didn't go ahead and buy a tire on that Saturday? I was on a trip, and on my way home. There was a new tire ready for mounting at home, so I didn't want to buy a tire on the road. Stupid mistake on my part.
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I had a puncture in a newish rear(2000 miles). I plugged it with one of those mushroom types and soldiered on for another 5000 miles with no loss of pressure. When I replaced the tire, I noticed the plug mushroom end was proud of the carcass by about 1/4 inch. I had pulled the thing with pliers to seat the 'shroom against the inner surface and cut flush with the blade. I think as the miles added up, the plug was pushed further into the tire. I have been wrong before but from now on-plug it only long enough to get a proper hot patch applied from the inside. My 2c.
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A better repair that is permanent is the patch with the plug stem in it. Has to be installed from the inside like a regular patch but you pull the stem/plug through the hole and cut the remainder off. Better than a mushroom plug. Available at Carquest. I haven't used mine yet because the string kits work fine for me.
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Ive plugged many tires over the years and never consider replacing them before they are worn out. I have a rope type plug in a Anakee 3 on the rear of my Stelvio right now. Got a nail in it at 5k miles and now at 7K miles its still hanging in there, although tire is now about ready to change. Obviously a rear is safer than a front in case of a failure but this last Sunday I was riding on Sunrise Hwy in San Diego county with a friend and his "built" Harley when our male egos got the best of us on an open stretch and we opened them up to see how fast that HD really was..Not as fast as the Stelvio by the way.. dumb, but no issues with tire plug.
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Ran over a staple which put two small holes in the tire. Town tire shop about to close for the weekend , needed bike, no centre stand, tire only done 600kms. I carry a 12v mini compressor so gave them the ok to use dog turd. Lasted for the life of the tire and never lost any pressure.
I think I would be quite ok with a mushroom head installed from the inside where they actually glue the head as well.
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I have plugged a lot of tires and gone on to wear them out.
A lot.
For those that are paranoid, I still have some tin foil hats.
I did have one not hold. It was a ROCK puncture. It was just too large.
For long term, a patch needs to seal air INSIDE so it does not get to the inner layers. And it needs to seal the water and grit outside to keep that from the inner layers. (that is why a tube alone is not recommended) A simple 'gooey worm' cord does both. A 'patch plug' may be a bit better IF properly installed.
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I've ridden on at least 7 or 8 plugged tires, perhaps more. One plugged tire was a front. I rode all but two or so until the tire was worn out.
Only a couple of them continued to leak air. One was on a bike I bought, the previous owner patched the inside- funny it was one of the two leakers. BTW- I've had tires leak for no real reason that had never been patched.
The last flat I had was on my EV. I was riding it from a meet up lunch, it was late in the afternoon and I was booking at home at 80 mph. When I slowed down in the city the bike really handled badly. For some reason I thought there was a problem with the front. I didn't know the rear was totally flat until I couldn't push it into the garage. I plugged it with a Stop N Go plug kit. Rode the tire for another 4 or 5k miles (that tire never handled well when it was new and this didn't make it any better) but it never leaked.
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I've done plugs over the years without problem. I think it's mostly the manufacturers lawyering up just in case. Can't blame them when we live in a sue happy society just as the lawyers want it.
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I've done plugs over the years without problem. I think it's mostly the manufacturers lawyering up just in case. Can't blame them when we live in a sue happy society just as the lawyers want it.
Many years ago an acquaintance of mine changed his name to Charles Ulric Incourtyabastard. His brother changed his to Stephen Mannersofan Animal. Nice boys. One of them met my mother.
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Until a PR3 rear tire picked up a small nail directly in the center of the tread, I'd never considered plugging a tire. However, someone on this site suggested that an internal patch available at NAPA, along with their cement, had worked for him.
I patched the tire, which only had 1000 miles or so on it. At the next tire change, I had it mounted. 7500 miles later, no issues.
I'm not recommending you do this. All I'm saying is that in looking at the tire, the small hole, the effective patch system .... I decided to go with it. Even borrowed a set of tire prep tools from a shop that used to patch tires but no longer will. It included rubber cleaner, an abrasive roller, and a small tool with a wooden roller to roll the patch (internal, by the way) into place.