Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Huzo on March 10, 2016, 10:10:22 AM
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Does anyone out there think (as do I), that if guzzi released the MGS01 with the current Griso engine and minimum equipment needed for road use, the thing would sell more units than a Panigale ? I know nothing about marketing, but why would it not be a goer ?
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BMW did it with the HP2 Sport, and it had been a huge fiasco.
The faired sportsbike market looks to the specs. Or you have it, or you don't sell.
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Oh ok, that's a fair point.
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There is 1 MGS-01 street legal in the SF Bay area and if no one else is impressed at least us Guzzisti are. :bow: :thumb:
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I didn't know there was such a beast
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Jim at Rose Farm has one. I think it's licensed as a V11S.. :cool:
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I didn't know there was such a beast
It helps to know the right people. :wink:
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It helps to know the right people. :wink:
There is (was) an Aprilia RS125 'round these parts kitted out and street legal. Nothing like seeing a ring-dinger road bike years past it being 'legal'.
Anything is possible when you know how to make it happen.
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I think I know the one in the Bay Area. Basically it had some lights and signals added and he took it to the DMV to get titled. The lights are hidden behind the fairing mesh and the signals are so small you barely notice them. It's a beautiful machine.
The same owner has a collection that would make any guzzi lover drool. V7 sports, Daytona, etc.
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I didn't know there was such a beast
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Quattrovalvole/DSCN368220.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Quattrovalvole/DSCN368820.jpg)
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The factory considered it. MGS-01 Strada. Piaggio killed it. The project was underway when Piaggio took the reins. The outsourced MGS project didn't fit Piaggio's vision of Guzzi, so it was shelved.
(http://www.mvs-performance.de/mediafiles/Bilder/IMG_9857.JPG)
(http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24255&stc=1&d=1257885205)
(http://archivio.animaguzzista.com/saloni_eventi/nationalcustom2003/images/minchione-su-MGS.jpg)
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Oh dear me......
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Makes me think of those Harley VR1000s that got grey-marketed - street legal - back into the U.S. from Poland a few years back.
Todd.
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I woulda looked good on that.. :smiley:
(http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24255&stc=1&d=1257885205)
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Makes me think of those Harley VR1000s that got grey-marketed - street legal - back into the U.S. from Poland a few years back.
Todd.
Yep, another kick-ass sporty bike on my dream list.
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Must admit that having that big black lump sitting there like August in the undergrowth sure looks mean! :thumb:
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Does anyone out there think (as do I), that if guzzi released the MGS01 with the current Griso engine and minimum equipment needed for road use, the thing would sell more units than a Panigale ? I know nothing about marketing, but why would it not be a goer ?
110ish hp vs 190 hp, sub 200kgs verses at best 220 kgs in 2004 it might of cut it, 12 years on not a hope in hell. There is also quiet a number of packaging issues in putting a griso four valve in the mgs frame number one where are you planning on put the alternator? Basically they need a new motor, completely new and to be vaguely competitive in the market it will almost have to be watercooled. If you look at the proposed specs of the MGS-01 strada it was pretty weedy compared to the corsa version i.e. passing emissions was going to be a real struggle.
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Yeah Murray that's probably the cruel truth of it all. But do you think there'd still be people who'd take it simply because it makes the Duke look like Meringue versus Beef ?
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Yeah Murray that's probably the cruel truth of it all. But do you think there'd still be people who'd take it simply because it makes the Duke look like Meringue versus Beef ?
The Pangalie sp? is generally considered a good looking bike so simply on aesthetics I think you might struggle the Ducati also has the been kicking rear and taking names in WSBK for the last 20 odd years. Put it this way I'd test ride one but I can't say if I'd buy one although, I can directly compare it to the Corsa admittedly people like that is very small group although it does contain a large group of bike jurnos. My concern is if it looks like a sport bike people will expect it to go like one, which frankly it won't, good performance out of a cruiser such as the 1400 calis is a bonus (tbh good performance and cali 1400 is a bit of a stretch of the definition) a sport bike is expected to perform well, that is its reason for existing.
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Personally, I like sporty bikes. They do not have to be WSBK competitors for me to appreciate them.
Just like a Miata doesn't have to be a Viper for me to appreciate it. And, a Subaru BRZ doesn't have to be a Ferrari FF for me to appreciate it.
Turn out some cranks set up for a nose mounted alternator for the 1200 8v, and they'd be set.
A 450 lbs 1200 8v powered MGS would suit me just fine for the type of sporty riding I do.
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Personally, I like sporty bikes. They do not have to be WSBK competitors for me to appreciate them.
They are among my favourite bikes too, but the market, especially in Italy (and in 2004 Moto Guzzi was much more centred on the italian market than it's now) seems to think otherwise.
For Example:
Aprilia Falco: fiasco
Honda VTR1000F: fiasco
Suzuki SV 1000S: fiasco
Ducati SS: they ended the production cause, in the later years, it was a...
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They are among my favourite bikes too, but the market, especially in Italy (and in 2004 Moto Guzzi was much more centred on the italian market than it's now) seems to think otherwise.
For Example:
Aprilia Falco: fiasco
Honda VTR1000F: fiasco
Suzuki SV 1000S: fiasco
Ducati SS: they ended the production cause, in the later years, it was a...
The problem is there are bikes like that already on the market, Monster 1200s, Superduke 1290 KTM, 1200 Streefighter, V4 Tuono some of these are nakeds or half faired but they all have one thing in common they'll do what you want and they all significantly lighter more powerful than a 1200 MGS strada will be. I think there is a market for a sporting road burner I just don't think Guzzi has a motor to make the bike right now.
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They are all naked really. None of them have half handlebars or a real half fairing. There is some semi-faired version of a naked (see the FZ1 Fazer), but they are on the market essentially cause the cost to produce a slightly diferent version of the naked bike is very low.
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The faired sportsbike market looks to the specs. Or you have it, or you don't sell.
Indeed, the likes of Panigales sell because they have 200hp and weigh under 400lbs.
Much as I and other members on here might like the MGS, how many would actually buy one?, I'm guessing it would be quite expensive...
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MGS-01 used an obsolete engine and obsolete gearbox and final drive stuck into a marginal chassis.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enraged that Guzzi seems to be being groomed to be the Cruiser and Hipster arm of Piaggio motorcycles but, as I've pointed out many times before, if you look at the service sheet for the MGS it says, basically, throw it all away every few hours of use!
It's an absurdly over stressed platform that is effectively useless as even a rarely used road tool!
Even though I don't think I would buy one I yearn for a new Guzzi 'Sportsbike' regardless of the fact it could never compete on paper with *Real* sportsbikes but the reality is that the MGS, no matter how pretty, isn't it. Constantly harking back to it as some sort of masturbatory personification of perfection that never was is both silly and delusional.
Pete
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I take it that you don't care for it then, Pete? :smiley:
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I take it that you don't care for it then, Pete? :smiley:
That's our friend Pete for you, a true man of words. :grin:
Dean
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Constantly harking back to it as some sort of masturbatory personification of perfection that never was is both silly and delusional.
Pete
I think its personification of Guzzi's imperfections and improvisations are the attractions for we silly and delusional Guzzi sporty bike fans.
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I think its personification of Guzzi's imperfections and improvisations are the attractions for we silly and delusional Guzzi sporty bike fans.
Agreed. In a non-motorcycle context, look at the Porsche 911. It started life as a modified Beetle chassis with funky weight distribution due to having the engine and transmission stuck behind the rear wheels. Porsche tried to kill it in favor of more rational front or mid-engine alternatives on numerous occasions, but the faithful wouldn't let it die. As a result, Porsche has continually improvised, improved and upgraded the vehicle to remain competitive, and has managed to do so brilliantly, despite the inherently "flawed" design. Of course, that kind of engineering and construction doesn't come cheap. Nonetheless, there's a ready market for it.
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I thought the Strada version would have been a de-turned version of the race bike; essentially the Daytona engine with the later V-11 Sport transmission.
Personally, I don't care how fast it would go but how it would handle in the turns. A 100HP or thereabouts Guzzi is fine by me.
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I thought the Strada version would have been a de-turned version of the race bike; essentially the Daytona engine with the later V-11 Sport transmission.
Yeah. the standard Daytona mill, I think.
Personally, I don't care how fast it would go but how it would handle in the turns. A 100HP or thereabouts Guzzi is fine by me.
Me either. A carbed Sport 1100 engine in that chassis would suit me.
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As a styling excercise it's superb, no question. If you've ever been up close and personal with one you'll know hey are drop-dead gorgeous but that doesn't alter the fact that it's a fragile and deeply flawed anachronism.
As I said I as much as anyone yearn for a new Guzzi 'Sportsbike' but the MGS isn't it and never will be.
Pete
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Fellas,
My "fragile and deeply flawed anachronism" has about 5000 miles on it now, mostly on the street but I've had it out to track days a bunch of times as well. The recommended maintenance in the manual is for full on racing conditions, and isn't much different than any other production racer. Take a look at the manuals that came with a '73 Honda Elsinore or Husqvarna MX'er from the '70's and you'll see the similarities. Ask someone who knows how much is required to keep a modern 450 dirt bike in racing condition! My maintenance routine is mostly an annual fluid change and air filter service. I did change the plugs last summer but the old ones looked pretty close to new. I've never had to add a drop of oil to it. I did put a new set of tires on last season, second for the front, the third for the rear. Even with "only" 120 hp or so, it doesn't have traction control, and it's unbelievably fun to twist the throttle so that back tire takes some abuse. It'll exceed any speed limit in the US without getting out of second gear so the "low power" isn't a problem in my mind, and there's four more gears past that one and I personally guarantee that mine will hit the red line in sixth. The trans may not shift as slick as the average rice rocket but its pretty nice, far and away better than any other Guzzi I've owned or ridden. It's pretty high spirited to ride on the street, not difficult to control or anything, it's just that you know you're holding it back all the time. The MGS is much more fun on the track where I can flog it to the best of my ability, it certainly doesn't seem overstressed or useless. I know a street version of it wouldn't sell, but it works for me. I've never been one to ride a spec sheet and nothing else I've been on gets close to it's "manner of going". If you ever get the chance to ride one, don't pass it up.
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:boozing:
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You lucky bastard. :wink::cool:
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Thanks for the report QV. Beautiful machine-glad to hear it's fun too.
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Cool news QV but I'm still a little scared by verbi-porn from the Tropic of Capricorn and feel engi-shamed into not taking your MGS seriously.
Anyhow, I'm glad you like it and sure would enjoy one myself if they weren't such masturbatory POS's and likely appendage augmenters like my Smith & Wesson .44 is.
What a great lottery pay-off one would make, right after I fit a trailer hitch to a Ferrari GTO! :evil:
Todd.
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I'm sure its fun but even the owner admits that he's only done 5,000 miles on it in how many years? I think its great that there are people who have gone to the trouble and expense to get an MGS-01 on the road but it doesn't alter the argument I'm making that it is not a *practical* road bike in the way that other 'Sportsbikes' are. Its also not about 'Performance' per se but comparable and perceived performance.
Pete
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It's an absurdly over stressed platform that is effectively useless as even a rarely used road tool!
I think this to be true of most sport bikes... they might last 50,000 miles if you're lucky. Of course most of that luck usually has to do with not destroying them into a wall or a tree.
I would still like to see a water cooled V4 in a guzzi mounted in the traditional guzzi style. The nimbleness of a bike with a longitudinal crank goes unappreciated until you ride the alternative.
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Pete,
You are right, that's not a lot of miles considering the time I've owned the bike. I save riding it for special occasions. My point to you is that I haven't had to "throw anything away after several hours of use", and "fragile" is not a word I would use to describe this machine.
Regards,
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The prettiest of all guzzi-engined sportsbikes were built by Mr. Magni IMHO. I passed over an MGS being sold locally in order to buy this one - and with 18,000mls under its wheels it still runs like a Swiss watch. As a long-term Ducati 888 (Strada & SP) owner/rider, I can tell you that the 'kitted' Australia isn't only more practical, it's truly a match for the Ducs of its era. It may not make the kind of power modern-day sportsbikes make, but when given the beans it puts enough down to have me sliding back in the seat! It's chuckable too, and despite its size it feels lighter than my old Le-Mans ever did.
Given the current trend for 'retro & classic replica' machines, were Guzzi to bring something like this to the market with Griso mechanicals, I'm sure they'd sell as many as they could make.
(http://s26.postimg.org/8adqz9h61/Magni.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8zwjbmhph/full/)
picture upload (http://postimage.org/)
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QV, congratulatios owning such a beautifull bike.
if you ever get fed up riding it , just park it in your living room.
i cant see why every bike should a practical road bike.
i own several bikes that are fun , but far from practical.
a bike just being gorgeous is good enough for me.