Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aschem on March 25, 2016, 10:16:45 PM
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Read this today:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/23/mv-agusta-applies-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-motorcycle-news/
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Hope MVA survives....very cool bikes, love their 3 cylinder models: like Triumph triples, except with more style and verve...
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Hope MVA survives....very cool bikes, love their 3 cylinder models: like Triumph triples, except with more style and verve...
Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .
Dusty
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Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .
Dusty
Don't see any Triumphs winning WSS races or even competing for that matter.
Although the Triumph is a nice looking bike its not in the same league as the little MV i'm afraid.
Ciao
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Don't see any Triumphs winning WSS races or even competing for that matter.
Although the Triumph is a nice looking bike its not in the same league as the little MV i'm afraid.
Ciao
Street bikes and race bikes are two completely different breeds of cat . Every comparison I've read shows that the Triumph is the better bike .
Dusty
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Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .
Dusty
Except the one that counts. Panache.
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Except the one that counts. Panache.
HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES! IT'S A KILL SHOT!
Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike. Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.
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Street bikes and race bikes are two completely different breeds of cat . Every comparison I've read shows that the Triumph is the better bike .
Dusty
How quaint, someone that actually thinks bike journos are worth taking notice of. I've only seen a handful over the last 40 years that had any idea at all. WSS is a very good yardstick for "sports" bikes these days with the latest rule iterations.
If you had ever had a modern Triumph engine stripped down on the bench and looked at the engineering you might not be that impressed. I wouldn't own another one. Three was three too many.
Ciao
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HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES! IT'S A KILL SHOT!
Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike. Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.
:thumb:
Ciao
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Maybe Harley will buy them again, and sell it back for one dollar. :evil:
http://www.jsonline.com/business/100130534.html (old news)
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Doesn't Mercedes Benz own a piece of them? I guess not a big enough piece (yet) though.
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British chuckle then Italian chortle.....
I test rode a MVA 675 triple about 2 years ago. Bike impressed me with looks, sound (triple exhaust is incredible). Throttle fueling was snatchy and difficult in traffic. Never got to take it out on road as dealer was pretty conservative. He wanted my V7R for his dad and tried to make a trade, and tried to get me to test the larger Brutale. Did not like instrumentation on any of their bikes: small, difficult to read LCD type, very small mph digital number. Never happened as the more I read about issues and fueling and broken sprag-sprocket problems: I passed.
Enter the Street Triple RX 675. Had the bike a year. Just love it. It is so damned refined and yeah the engine can scream, handling amazing and I think it is pretty if you like Klingon genetics. Love the big instrument display, upright seating, reliability and the whole package just fits me. The bike can be civilized on stop and go, and give a good pucker if pushed past 9000 rpm. Brakes are incredible. Shifting is precise. Cornering a joy.
MVA is simply gorgeous though. Yes Italian design. So, I hope MVA hangs on.
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I really want an MVA F4rr. I'm 55 years old and well on my way to being fully crippled. Told Lorraine about wanting to buy one and she looked at it and the specs. She then turned to me and said "you buying that is like you sleeping with a 21 year old nympho. You think you can ride that but you'll just end up hurting yourself on it." Sometime honesty sucks. :rolleyes:
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so wait.
CH 11 is Bankruptcy law in USA? Italy? What?
And I am guessing it's not liquidation but just a way to "reorganize"? I just wonder what happened to the $100M that Harley gave them?
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Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .
Dusty
It certainly does where it matters. Dealer backup and support.
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So if the Augusta is so superior to the Triumph , which it isn't , how come MV is going tits up .
Oh Unlucky Phil , Triumph has in fact one some races .
And what do pancakes have to do with motorcycles ???
Sorry guys , just because it is Italian , and has the personality of a race horse (read as unpleasant) and says MV Augusta on it , does not make it a better bike . Besides , we were actually talking about the Street Triple VS the 675 Brutale , and the Brutale looks like a stink bug .
Oh , Phil , no one is paying YOU for your opinions . Pretty sure Egan , Henning , Canet , et al know way more about motorbikes than you .
Dusty
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So if the Augusta is so superior to the Triumph , which it isn't , how come MV is going tits up .
So by that logic Harley is better than Guzzi, or well, just about anything is better than Guzzi.
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So by that logic Harley is better than Guzzi, or well, just about anything is better than Guzzi.
Nope . Given MV's heritage and fame they should have sold like hotcakes , they didn't . I simply don't buy the argument that because something is "exotic" it is better than a reliable product .
Dusty
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so wait.
CH 11 is Bankruptcy law in USA? Italy? What?
And I am guessing it's not liquidation but just a way to "reorganize"? I just wonder what happened to the $100M that Harley gave them?
What MV requested is a "Concordato in continuit�".
It's an agreement, supervised by the court, with the creditors, to pay them less, but continue the production.
If the agreement is not found, there is bankrupcy.
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And what do pancakes have to do with motorcycles ???
Dusty
Knowing the difference between panache and pancakes helps. :blank:
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Can you use steel cut oats to make pancakes ?
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What MV requested is a "Concordato in continuit�".
It's an agreement, supervised by the court, with the creditors, to pay them less, but continue the production.
If the agreement is not found, there il bankrupcy.
Yup, basically the equivalent of a CH11 business reorganization in the US.
US law also has a personal reorganization (Ch 13) or liquidation (Ch 7).
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Knowing the difference between panache and pancakes helps. :blank:
Not in this instance . People are confusing panache with substance , so it might as well be pancakes , at least pancakes will fill you up :laugh:
Dusty
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Nope . Given MV's heritage and fame they should have sold like hotcakes , they didn't . I simply don't buy the argument that because something is "exotic" it is better than a reliable product .
Dusty
Meh, I couldn't care less.
I was just pointing out the logic of your statement was that "superiority = retail success" which I think is bunk.
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Can you use steel cut oats to make pancakes ?
....yes, then they will have panache...
kjf
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This is sad news. I never like to see people or companies struggle or fail. Fortunately, this is not yet a liquidation bankruptcy but merely a reorganization.
Leverage cuts both ways...
Polonius to his son, Laertes, in Hamlet:
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
"For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
"And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."
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Companies do this all the time, for instance GM, American Airlines, United Airlines, Delta Airlines. AMG/Mercedes owns 25% of MV, they wanted more but the majority owner Giovani Castiglioni didn`t want to give up control so AMG is leaving and their money to pay debts goes with them.
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Not in this instance . People are confusing panache with substance , so it might as well be pancakes , at least pancakes will fill you up :laugh:
Dusty
If you say so. :laugh:
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This is the article that actually might have some insight.
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/mv-agusta-in-yet-another-financial-crisis.html
That MV was able to produce a 30% growth in sales last year while claiming a large number of backorders for 2016 means there is some hope of turning things around.
Oddly, that stands in contrast to his late father, Claudio Castiglioni, who on more than one occasion, sold the company for millions only to buy it back for a nominal fee (the most recent buyer was Harley-Davidson which purchased MV Agusta for $108 million in 2008 only to sell it back two years later for a single euro). It’s a neat trick if you could pull it off, but it looks like Giovanni Castiglioni will have to go a different route.
The kid doesn't want to give up control of the company and doesn't want to live within his means.
Is this a European thing??
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Causes no worry in my mind anymore.
Seems any given respective jurisdiction's "backruptcy" anymore is merely an opportunity for an entity to aggressively "reorganize" on the tax-payers dime.
Was a time it signaled weakness either personally, professionally, corporately or nationally.
Anymore? Not so much.
More these days of an issue of hiding from commitments deemed retroactively unfair by the indebted party.
Todd.
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Pretty sure a Daytona 675 won a TT a few years ago. That'll do for me.
I'd be sad if MV went belly up, but sound financial planning and management doesn't sem to be part of thier plan. Triumphs progress has been slow and steady, but they are well established now as a decent sized player in the market.
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This is the article that actually might have some insight.
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/mv-agusta-in-yet-another-financial-crisis.html
The kid doesn't want to give up control of the company and doesn't want to live within his means.
Is this a European thing??
Not really - remember the dot-com collapse, the liar loans and real estate market, and the Wall Street bailout? Not to mention the Japanese market collapse in the late 90s, the current Chinese stock market, and numerous other examples. Pretty much human nature, which can only be overcome by self-discipline or imposed reality... :evil:
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By the way, a bankruptcy is not usually at the taxpayers' expense. It is usually at the expense of owners and creditors, who are asked (or forced) to take a haircut (or a bath).
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I am not sure why anyone here can choose a winner between Triumph and MV without riding them for some miles.
I thought the Cal 14 was a better bike than the Harley, Indian, Kawasaki, and Victory after riding some of their respective bikes.
I might add that I suspect the Beemer RT is a better ride than all of them. But I didn't get enough seat time with Telelever to make a clear conclusion. So far as power, it goes.
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U.S. Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is a financial tool that is use to reorganize financial obligations far from liquidation. The petition can be withdrawn during the whole process if the right concessions are obtained for both the debtor and those owed funds.
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M V Agusta has never been about selling enough MCs to pay for the race bikes they make/sell. In fact in the `70s they hardly made any MCs and only cared about winning races.
I met a guy who had a Yamaha dealership in the SF Bay area back then and he wanted to sell MV Agustas, so he sent them a letter and let them know. He never got anything back so forgot about it. Then 1 day months later he gets a call from port there's a box from Italy for him to pick up. He has no idea what they're talking about, but goes to see what is going on. It was a crated up MV Agusta bike the factory sent him. He paid the factory for that 750 and raced it in AFM for many years. The rest of the story is what happened when he decided to sell it.
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M V Agusta has never been about selling enough MCs to pay for the race bikes they make/sell. In fact in the `70s they hardly made any MCs and only cared about winning races.
I met a guy who had a Yamaha dealership in the SF Bay area back then and he wanted to sell MV Agustas, so he sent them a letter and let them know. He never got anything back so forgot about it. Then 1 day months later he gets a call from port there's a box from Italy for him to pick up. He has no idea what they're talking about, but goes to see what is going on. It was a crated up MV Agusta bike the factory sent him. He paid the factory for that 750 and raced it in AFM for many years. The rest of the story is what happened when he decided to sell it.
Wayne , the old MV made their money building helicopters , and the street bikes bore very little resemblance to the race bikes . The multi cylinder street bikes were shaft driven , and the engines and frames only kind of looked like the race bikes . The Count didn't want anyone to mount a challenge to the factories superiority . Don't think the modern company has any real ties to the Count's MV Agusta .
Dusty
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Ya just can't mount a rational argument based around a bikes perceived superiority because riding a bike is fundamentally an irrational pursuit. If you consider the initial purchase price and subsequent depreciation, the amount it costs to do a 1,000 k weekend ride with 3 mates, versus what it would be if you all piled into a small hatch, factor in 15,000 k from a set of tyres which @ $500 AUD a set is $10 on top of every tank of fuel, insurance, risk, blah blah......I owned an MV Agusta F4 SPR for a couple of years, did 22,000 km on it and had heaps of people tell me how "lucky I was" to own it. One day I was out with a mate and he stopped for a drink and snack he had in his Gearsack on the back, then I thought if I wanted to circle Australia, the MV was useless, so virtually gave it back to the dealer and got a new Triumph Sprint ST and did the Oz trip and 70,000 k on top. So the point is (finally), you may as well stop bringing arguments to the table in an attempt to shoot the next guy down in an attempt to justify your purchase in your own mind. If YOU think your bike is better than anyone else's, then you must be right, because an opinion can't by definition,be wrong.
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It's an unfortunate reality that if you want to sell bikes, and stick around, you have to pander to the lowest common denominator while still making a decent product.
If you decide to make the best product you possibly can, without regards to cost or producibility, you go tits up. Examples of this being Lancia and Saab. They cared about making excellent vehicles, but ultimately they failed to stick around (Lancia still exists, but in name only) The big four are around today because they had the edge in reliability and the ability to pump out millions of bikes like the Honda Dream
Guzzi is following the economies of scale to stay in business with the v7, while Ducati rides on the coat tails of fame set by the 916. MV Agusta remains a mostly unknown name in motorcycling and their bikes don't offer anything special to make them desirable over the cheaper alternatives. I think if MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening.
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Hey Doppy, if you think MV are going under because they don't offer anything special over their cheaper mainstream alternatives, what was it that made you choose your Breva over something that would perhaps have been cheaper and in some people's minds,more reliable ? My point is that there will probably always be people who want to exist a bit on the fringe, because bikes like Guzzi, MV, Ducati (to a degree), are just more interesting. What does the Honda forum look like ?
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I think Huzo nailed it on the head.
Applause and tip of the hat and poodle tail wags.
Riding is irrational, no doubt. We all have our opinions, as we are all unique individuals.
Still hope MVA survives...
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Is this really a surprise to anyone? At one of their recent press launches they even spent time trying to justify the bikes' HIGH pricetags by actually providing a presentation to try and show why they - as opposed to other European and especially Japanese makers - should be considered a "super premium" brand. Their words. Yet, only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes. Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache. Only now do they seem to be getting those things lined out on their bikes so maybe they will fill those '16 orders and come flush.
As per the Triumph/MV comparison. They've lost nearly every comparison to the little British bike not because journos take bribes, or because they are wankers (they are), or because they don't "understand" biking like we supposedly do :rolleyes:, but they've lost nearly all these comparisons because they are competing against what has been rated time and time again as one of the most well engineered and complete packages in motorcycling. Not unlike many Geese, the Street Triple and/or the Daytona come together in a way that is beyond paper numbers - the FI is spot on, the handling is sublime, it is incredibly rideable in virtually any situation you place the engine. You wanna commute? It's fine with that. You wanna highway ride or weekend tour. Totally okay. You want backroad bonkers. Oh yeah. All the while it has mostly done this without even modern riding aids like traction control, abs brakes, etc. I don't think I respected any motorcycle more than I did that little Street Triple I owned. So many times I got off the thing and just looked at saying wow, you are one ugly piece of amazing machinery. :thumb: :grin:
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Is this really a surprise to anyone? Only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes. Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache. Only now do they seem to be getting those things lined out on their bikes so maybe they will fill those '16 orders and come flush.
As per the Triumph/MV comparison. They've lost nearly every comparison to the little British bike not because journos take bribes, or because they are wankers (they are), or because they don't "understand" biking like we supposedly do :rolleyes:, but they've lost nearly all these comparisons because they are competing against what has been rated time and time again as one of the most well engineered and complete packages in motorcycling. Not unlike many Geese, the Street Triple and/or the Daytona come together in a way that is beyond paper numbers - the FI is spot on, the handling is sublime, it is incredibly rideable in virtually any situation you place the engine. You wanna commute? It's fine with that. You wanna highway ride or weekend tour. Totally okay. You want backroad bonkers. Oh yeah. All the while it has mostly done this without even modern riding aids like traction control, abs brakes, etc. I don't think I respected any motorcycle more than I did that little Street Triple I owned. So many times I got off the thing and just looked at saying wow, you are one ugly piece of amazing machinery. :thumb: :grin:
:1: BTW- I don't think all biking journos are wankers. Let's stop and remember Kevin Ashe. I loved his work and get the feeling that he was an honest, passionate, experienced rider. There is more to this than merely "my opinion is this, therefore it cannot be assailed". These are mechanical objects. There should be some objective ways of rating and comparing them. That is the challenged posed to the MC journalist community. I think MC Consumer news tried very, very hard to be objective- while still adding some personal opinions.
I have great respect for the modern Triumph. They seem to be killing it in the market based on the good old fashioned principle of making a great product at the right price. Good on them.
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f MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening
Then again, winning races doesn't seem to always equal large number of retail sales. I'm thinking Aprila, as far as visual sightings on the roads around here, about a rare as MV Augusta.
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It's an unfortunate reality that if you want to sell bikes, and stick around, you have to pander to the lowest common denominator while still making a decent product.
If you decide to make the best product you possibly can, without regards to cost or producibility, you go tits up. Examples of this being Lancia and Saab. They cared about making excellent vehicles, but ultimately they failed to stick around (Lancia still exists, but in name only) The big four are around today because they had the edge in reliability and the ability to pump out millions of bikes like the Honda Dream
Guzzi is following the economies of scale to stay in business with the v7, while Ducati rides on the coat tails of fame set by the 916. MV Agusta remains a mostly unknown name in motorcycling and their bikes don't offer anything special to make them desirable over the cheaper alternatives. I think if MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening.
BTW, They are winning in WSS and could win the Championship this year as they were second last year.
http://www.crash.net/wss
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Is this really a surprise to anyone? At one of their recent press launches they even spent time trying to justify the bikes' HIGH pricetags by actually providing a presentation to try and show why they - as opposed to other European and especially Japanese makers - should be considered a "super premium" brand. Their words. Yet, only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes. Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache.
There pricing is in line with Ducati these days. The Jap Sportbikes are just about as expensive and look like crap. The BMW S1000rr is the best value for all you get, but it`s not exactly great looking either. The FI on my '14 F4 is great.
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There pricing is in line with Ducati these days. The Jap Sportbikes are just about as expensive and look like crap. The BMW S1000rr is the best value for all you get, but it`s not exactly great looking either. The FI on my '14 F4 is great.
Kent, I do think the bikes are gorgeous and should obviously be prized by those who can afford to have one in the garage. And listen - no don't, nobody should really listen to me. :laugh: Last week my board bud on here here, Ralph Glorioso, pointed out that I'm the kinda guy who would slag a Ferrari for its poor mpg. :thumb:
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HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES! IT'S A KILL SHOT!
Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike. Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.
Triumph must be doing something right, they ain't bankrupt!
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Like I said, they're right if YOU think they are. Harley aren't broke either but they haven't won a WSBK or Moto GP race for a fair while, but would that matter if you were doing Route 66 with your mates on one ?When you're having a cappuccino on the top of the Stelvio Pass or Nordkapp with your Norge, do you care how many valves per cylinders it has ? Bugger me, if you on the road of bones on an old MZ with a Russian comrade eating boiled Black Bear, you'd call yourself blessed. The problem is not when someone takes the time to try to tell you that one bike is "better" than another, the mistake is when you enter the argument with them.
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Oh , Phil , no one is paying YOU for your opinions . Pretty sure Egan , Henning , Canet , et al know way more about motorbikes than you .
Dusty
That's actually true, I get paid for my knowledge not my opinions.
Ciao
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That's actually true, I get paid for my knowledge not my opinions.
Ciao
Yeah , and surely overpaid at that .
Dusty
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Did someone mention Ferrari?
On my bicycle ride this afternoon, across the subdivision: no kidding: two brand new Ferraris, with dealer plates. One black, and one white. I wanted to stop and drool but since people were out front of the house I refrained. Wondering if our local Ferrari dealer actually lives in the neighborhood? If so, I need to make friends.... not sure of the model, but they looked identical, and had the big engines under the rear deck under glass... V12?
MVA, I read somewhere, designed their triple exhausts to sound like a Ferrari. I believe it. Given that, I love the scream of my 675 Triple Triumph when it winds up. Then again, nothing ever beat the Kawasaki Mach III two-stroke triple for sound, and blue clouds...
Time for bed.
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Keep your hands above the covers lucydad !
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Then again, winning races doesn't seem to always equal large number of retail sales. I'm thinking Aprila, as far as visual sightings on the roads around here, about a rare as MV Augusta.
El Dorado Hills?
You'd have seen a spanking new Veloce if Elk Grove didn't say "21 and a half and not a penny less" whereupon I said "lets see how that comes out in six months".
That was 2 months ago.
The Norge runs to El Dorado Hills once a month.
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Triumph must be doing something right, they ain't bankrupt!
Triumph had been, for twenty years, the pet project of a billionaire that continued to finance its losses.
The bike that made it profitable (a thing thathappened only few years ago) had not been the Speed Triple, The Street triple, or the Daytona. It had been the Bonneville.
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Wasn't it the Monster that really grew Ducati's sales?
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Sure. But in its case, the customers saw the 916 winning on sunday, and came out of the dealer riding a Monster on monday.
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Sure. But in its case, the customers saw the 916 winning on sunday, and came out of the dealer riding a Monster on monday.
I've heard this win on Sunday sell on Monday thing a bit in my life, but I don't buy it. The vast majority of motorcyclists I know don't watch racing.
Now I'm SURE a much higher percentage of MV and Ducati owners do.
But again, I bet if you polled owners of Bonnies, Monsters, Scramblers, etc. you'd find they don't.
In those cases Ducati and Triumph plugged into something else that sells even better. It's a combination of style, price, and performance with a vague notion of some sort of brand image/heritage.
It's what sells Harleys too (especially the 50-60,000 Sportsters they sell each year). It's what's selling the V7s.
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And reliability, or reputation for it, helps too. The best thing that ever happened to Ferrari was the introduction of the Acura NSX.
Although from what I can tell, Japanese bikes are neither as bulletproof, and Italian and American bikes aren't as brittle, as legend states.
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Pit someone on Honda and they just put in gas, maybe some oil. That how a lot of them are treated.
Put someone on a Guzzi, maintence like clockwork. It's probably more due to maintenance than anything else.
The best stuff not maintained properly doesn't last very long or run very well.
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Triumph had been, for twenty years, the pet project of a billionaire that continued to finance its losses.
The bike that made it profitable (a thing thathappened only few years ago) had not been the Speed Triple, The Street triple, or the Daytona. It had been the Bonneville.
Bloor set Triumph on a realistic trajectory , willing to lose money for a while to build the brand . MV had the same opportunity .
Dusty
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Bloor set Triumph on a realistic trajectory , willing to lose money for a while to build the brand . MV had the same opportunity .
Dusty
:1:
And doesn't MV's owner have some kind of Cagiva history too or am I thinking of someone else?
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:1:
And doesn't MV's owner have some kind of Cagiva history too or am I thinking of someone else?
The Cagiva group owned the modern iteration of MV Agusta . Or did in the beginning , the Castiglioni (sp) family controlled the company .
Look fellas , the MV sport bikes are beautiful to behold , and the company should be applauded for their efforts , but in the 675 triple model range , Triumph builds a wonderful motorbike , and seem to hold the edge . The 675 Daytona is a gorgeous bike , and the Street Trip is amazing . Maybe MV will survive this and thrive , always room for another Italian thoroughbred :thumb:
Dusty
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I really want an MVA F4rr. I'm 55 years old and well on my way to being fully crippled. Told Lorraine about wanting to buy one and she looked at it and the specs. She then turned to me and said "you buying that is like you sleeping with a 21 year old nympho. You think you can ride that but you'll just end up hurting yourself on it." Sometime honesty sucks. :rolleyes:
You wife was alot more" politically correct " than mine, when I wanted a full on sport bike a few years back, my wife just shook her head, and told me I looked like a "Monkey f%$&*^g a football!"
either way, I must agree.....honesty sucks!
Rick.
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Watching this with some interest. . .
Corresponded with my dealer today who said they know as much as is appearing on the interwebs today. They haven't heard the official company line yet from their MVUS Rep - so no word on if/when/how it would/could affect new delivery, parts, serviceability, etc, etc, etc...
We laughed at the joke similar to Guzzi - MV's been going out of business since 1945.
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These bikes have been cheapened with each successive year, IMHO. There's more chinese metalwork/componentry and poor welding on them now than you'd find on a Jinlun. The triple has been plagued with fuelling/sprag-clutch/fuel-tank deformation & vibration-fatigue issues from the very first - as well as a multitude of other things - and owners now have another thing to worry about. Check out this pic of the inlet cams on an 800 after only 3,500mls (..and three oil changes). Having been shown this, the company have said it's aware of this issue and as yet it's nothing to worry about. :huh: At what mileage should the worry start??
As a lifelong 'real MV' enthusiast it saddens me to see what Cagiva have done to the reputation of this once legendary marque. The badge was without doubt sold to them too cheaply.
(http://s26.postimg.org/itisljq5h/Intake_cams_No1_Image1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/itisljq5h/)
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These bikes have been cheapened with each successive year, IMHO. There's more chinese metalwork/componentry and poor welding on them now than you'd find on a Jinlun. The triple has been plagued with fuelling/sprag-clutch/fuel-tank deformation & vibration-fatigue issues from the very first - as well as a multitude of other things - and owners now have another thing to worry about. Check out this pic of the inlet cams on an 800 after only 3,500mls (..and three oil changes). Having been shown this, the company have said it's aware of this issue and as yet it's nothing to worry about. :huh: At what mileage should the worry start??
As a lifelong 'real MV' enthusiast it saddens me to see what Cagiva have done to the reputation of this once legendary marque. The badge was without doubt sold to them too cheaply.
(http://s26.postimg.org/itisljq5h/Intake_cams_No1_Image1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/itisljq5h/)
I've owned 3 Mvs, 2 750's and a 1000 and this cam issue has been around for 15years. But as the factory says its not an issue.
Ciao
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Same thing with early V4 Hondas. A lot of talk about cam wear but in reality not all that many actually failed. Some did and they made all the news. Most racked up big mile numbers with and without oil kits and it was never proved that oil kits solved anything.
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I've heard this win on Sunday sell on Monday thing a bit in my life, but I don't buy it. The vast majority of motorcyclists I know don't watch racing.
Ducati built it's success on being the sportiest brand on the market.
Triumph don't.
Ducati sold the Monster thanks to it's victories.
Triumph didn't
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Bloor set Triumph on a realistic trajectory , willing to lose money for a while to build the brand.
To loose money for 20 years is not a realistc industrial trajectory by any means. Is a pet project that would have last as long as Bloor's interest in owning a motorcycle company, and had been saved by having the right model at the right moment, that's more a matter of luck than other (there is not a formula to made the right model at the right moment, it could happen, like it could not).
With regard to Castiglioni, he had always been more interested in doing the bikes that he liked than to own a profitable company. This outcome has always been predictable.
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Ducati built it's success on being the sportiest brand on the market.
Triumph don't.
Ducati sold the Monster thanks to it's victories.
Triumph didn't
I don't think I can emphasize enough how few people watch motorcycle racing in the US. You have to go looking very hard to find it televised here.
Sure, some vague notion of race history plays a part in the brand image.
And I'm sure more Ducati owners do seek out and watch racing here then say Harley, BMW, or Guzzi.
But again, I'm telling you that. At least in the US, most owners of Monsters or the new Ducati Scramblers have probably never seen a motorcycle race.
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I would have to second the comment about current fit and finish of MV. I saw them in my local dealer and was totally underwhelmed. No mention of this in the online reviews, BTW. There are plenty of components that are mass producd and look it. In the old days, MV would've milled every little bit from aluminum, so that it looked like the whole bike was custom machined (essentially- exactly what it was). The current 675 range is far from that. I'm still in the camp that says- if you took the badges off the bikes, you'd know tha tthe triumph Street triple is a much more developed machine.
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To loose money for 20 years is not a realistc industrial trajectory by any means. Is a pet project that would have last as long as Bloor's interest in owning a motorcycle company, and had been saved by having the right model at the right moment, that's more a matter of luck than other (there is not a formula to made the right model at the right moment, it could happen, like it could not).
With regard to Castiglioni, he had always been more interested in doing the bikes that he liked than to own a profitable company. This outcome has always been predictable.
They didn't lose money for twenty years , it was ten . In the world of mega million dollar industries ten years is completely realistic . In fact , Triumph has performed beyond expectation , while MV has become a ping pong ball , bought and sold repeatedly , even once basically given back to the Castiglioni family by HD , and thet still couldn't make it work . Sounds like a cash cow to me .
Dusty
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The T-300 series bikes were good, but low volume. They helped triumph get into the modern world. My Sprint Executive was a fine sport-tourer.
The T-500 bikes sold much better, but were still a relatively low volume deal. The 955 Daytona and Girlie Tiger were great bikes!
What really opened things up for Triumph was the introduction of the New Bonneville in 2001. Sales instantly doubled and money started flowing in.
The rest is history.
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The T-300 series bikes were good, but low volume. They helped triumph get into the modern world. My Sprint Executive was a fine sport-tourer.
The T-500 bikes sold much better, but were still a relatively low volume deal. The 955 Daytona and Girlie Tiger were great bikes!
What really opened things up for Triumph was the introduction of the New Bonneville in 2001. Sales instantly doubled and money started flowing in.
The rest is history.
There may be a lesson hidden in this somewhere , what could it be ? :laugh:
Dusty
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The 955 Daytona and Girlie Tiger were great bikes!
The 900 and 955 triples have some real character. The Street Triple I owned was a vastly superior bike in every way to this one, but the one area it couldn't remotely compete in was soul. When this one's running and not suffering under my less than capable wrenching hands, I can't help but love the thing, '99 Thunderbird Sport. It is overbuilt to a fault with many engineering conundrums but each time I think of giving up this little project, I'll do something right, it'll start running, and I'm smitten again. It's stolen more hours and heartache from me than I can recount here. Someday I'll update my thread on the bike with my timeline and that sorta thing. Most recently finally got it running again and shot a couple short 15 second videos. Of course, it's back on the lift now :undecided: :rolleyes: :boozing:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/Thunderbird/image_zpsulvmzu7i.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/Thunderbird/image_zpsulvmzu7i.jpeg.html)
http://youtu.be/_S0HEJVAAzk
http://youtu.be/K0xUYZZdCjI
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'99 Thunderbird Sport.
Yeah, the T-300 Thunderbirds were cool "almost right" retros. I really liked the T-Bird Sport. We had one as a demo, and sold a few.
We had an Adventurer that we put Super-III cams/pistons/exhaust on. It would really run!
The Thunderbirds and Adventurers were pretty slow movers on the showroom, though. Especially after the introduction of the T-500 Speed Triple.
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Bipper , that T bird is junk , isn't ever gonna run right no matter what , unfixable . When do you want me to haul it away ?
Dusty
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Bipper , that T bird is junk , isn't ever gonna run right no matter what , unfixable . When do you want me to haul it away ?
Dusty
Thanks for the kind offer, Dusty. Gimme a few more months of frustration and perhaps I'll take you up on it but for now my hands not that cold nor dead; however, maybe I can find some other things around the house to sell?
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsjqpb6wuu.jpeg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsjqpb6wuu.jpeg.html)
Yeah, the T-300 Thunderbirds were cool "almost right" retros. I really liked the T-Bird Sport. We had one as a demo, and sold a few.
We had an Adventurer that we put Super-III cams/pistons/exhaust on. It would really run!
The Thunderbirds and Adventurers were pretty slow movers on the showroom, though. Especially after the introduction of the T-500 Speed Triple.
That's kinda been part of mine here too. I swapped out to the faster green Daytona/Speed cams, opened airbox and installed KN filter, opened exhaust, rejetted carbs. Others on TRat board who successfully did this say they dyno about 90 at the rear with these changes, but no matter what you do to the thing it's never gonna be a racer even with its fully adjustable front and rear shocks. More than anything it feels to me like a straight line rowdy muscle car than any kind of "Sport" as its moniker implies - but I actually like this fact better. Now waiting on arrival of Daytona Ignitor which will raise the rev limit. Tons upon tons of other things too. Maybe/likely too much in fact. I'll have to update that thread sometime soon. If it ever gets running.
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Hot news!
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/trump-ebr-agusta-motorcycle-company.html
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Hot news!
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/trump-ebr-agusta-motorcycle-company.html
Maybe a week ago....
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Maybe a week ago....
Ok so it's news to me OK? :grin: and funny