Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev m on April 01, 2016, 02:25:11 PM
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OK, there's been a lot of paranoia around this board for going on a decade with regards to half-plastic fuel filters and there's only been one or maybe 2 reports of one ever failing.
Back around 2009 or so it caused me to pull the large plastic fuel tank off my Breva and prophylactically replace the fuel filter.
At that point I think the bike was about 3 years old with about 15k miles of mostly E10 Fuel. The plastic seemed a little soft and squishy, but I didn't really think it was in any danger of separating and I started to have my doubts if there was a problem.
Fast forward to my 2013 Stone. It's now got only 10.5k miles, but that's over 3 years of using nothing but E10 fuels.
I was going to wait another year or two, but since I had to take the tank off to replace the regulator (or at least it made it a lot easier) I figured WTH.
I removed the old filter that didn't look to be in bad shape at all.
Then I donned some safety goggles, got some HEAVY gloves, and large towel.
I figured EFI system pressures are probably in the 30-40 psi range give or take, if anything they wouldn't exceed 50 psi.
So I first I dialed my compressor up to 60 psi for tank regulator output. I plugged the metal outlet of the filter by pushing it hard into a piece of wood and then using the air chock applied 60 psi to the filter. NO BOOM.
Emboldened by that I dialed up to 80 psi - NO BOOM.
Next 100 PSI - NO BOOM.
Finally 120 psi - NO BOOM, but I was having problems keeping a seal against it.
Still, that's probably 4 times the amount of pressure that filter will ever see in use and after 3+ years (probably almost 3.5 years) of immersion in ethanol laced fuels.
I'm not saying that one CAN'T fail.
But I'm guessing the failures are going to be few and far between.
If it were me, I'd probably wait till year 4-5 for replacement unless the mileage was MUCH higher.
YMMV of course, but I bet it won't...
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So, curious minds ... did you replace it after your torture test?
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Thanks Kev, I've been putting it off.Do you happen to know when the scheduled replacement is?
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Well done. Thanks for the effort. I've a metal Mahle sitting in its box, still on standby. No failures so far either.
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I had about 75-80K on the Norge when I replaced my factory filter. It was swollen and a little soft, but no signs of imminent failure. I replaced it with an all-metal one (bien sur!) and used proper Oetiker style clamps.
I count this task as one of those you clean up when you have another reason to open the tank, or when you know you are going a long, long way from help. For example, I'd likely do it if I were riding the bike up to Alaska.
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Hummm, I thought the filter was on the intake side of the pump. That way the pump is only getting clean fuel. If that's the case then there won't be much pressure at all. Still glad I have an all metal filter.
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The 2 year old filter in my v7 was yellowed and swollen.
I replaced it with a NAPA metal filter.
It sure didn't look right but maybe I'll try to blow mine up too
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I did replace it, seemed silly to open the tank and not.
The filter is between the pump and the output hose which is attached to the cover along with the integrated pressure regulator.
The pump is protected by a pickup sock, the filter is to protect the injectors.
I'm not sure there is a replacement interval per se.
I couldn't find the 11.3 oetiker clamps and used 11-13 threaded fuel injection clamps instead. I wish I'd taken the time to source the correct clamps. Oh well.
Pump removal is a little tricky.
I moved the fuel level sensor down one hole, that makes pump installation a little worse.
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Do you happen to know when the scheduled replacement is?
Oddly, the interval isn't given in my manual.
A rule of thumb is to replace the fuel filter at double the air filter life. I.e. air filter is replaced at 9,000 mi (15,000 km), so the fuel filter is at 18,000 mi (30k km).
Open to ideas.
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Oddly, the interval isn't given in my manual.
A rule of thumb is to replace the fuel filter at double the air filter life. I.e. air filter is replaced at 9,000 mi (15,000 km), so the fuel filter is at 18,000 mi (30k km).
Open to ideas.
I don't know if that rule of thumb means anything anymore.
We've been told that BMW doesn't even use filters anymore.
We've told gas station pump filters are usually well maintained.
And anecdotally I've not seen a spec of contaminant in the last few Guzzi tanks I've opened and the pickup screen looked equally pristine this time.
So I think it comes down to particulars. If you frequent a questionable gas station. If your metal fuel tank is more than a decade or so old or your tank shows signs of contaminants, then consider changing it.
Otherwise I'd let it go until it shows a problem.
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FWIW, my 2004 Prius has 155,000 mi on the odo and I've never even thought about replacing the fuel filter. Nor have the injectors ever needed any attention. Seems like fuel filters are in for the life of the vehicle these days, unless you are OCD or put improper things in your tank.
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Agreed. Just change mine as well. I don't plan on opening up that tank again for a LONG time.
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Um, gee thanks Kev......
Now that I have read your post, with my replacement filter sitting on my bench for @ 1 year, I will probably now have the only recorded catastrophic filter failure in all of Christendom........ :grin:
Good post, and thanks for risking life and limb for the rest of us.
kjf
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And anecdotally I've not seen a spec of contaminant in the last few Guzzi tanks I've opened and the pickup screen looked equally pristine this time.
The filter on my EV was so clogged up with rust no fuel was getting through. This was a metal tank though, rust is caused by the recessed moat drain plugging up and sending water into the tank, I doubt you would get that on a plastic tank as you observed.
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The filter on my EV was so clogged up with rust no fuel was getting through. This was a metal tank though, rust is caused by the recessed moat drain plugging up and sending water into the tank, I doubt you would get that on a plastic tank as you observed.
Which is also why I noted "if your metal tank is more than a decade or so old" and noted it may come down to particular operating conditions.
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Although I agree with your assessment Kev, there are still unknowns regarding the composition of the plastic. Yes, I have only heard of a few. However, the factory filter on my 09 Stelvio is in fact metal. As I had noted some time ago, when I changed out the one on my Norge, the filter was very pliable. Much more than I was comfortable with. Having said that, I too replaced it just to be on the safe side. Hindsight being what it is, I wish I had thought to test it as you just did.
Now I can't help but wonder it the plastic used in the current filters is the same as it was before? IDK....... maybe, maybe not.
Anyway, being easy and cheap still makes me feel better about having done it than not. Of course you have me wondering what lurks in the tank on the 1400. :grin:
:boozing:
John Henry
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No words needed.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/darrenbalboa26/1200SportFuelFilter_zps747dca28.jpg) (http://s975.photobucket.com/user/darrenbalboa26/media/1200SportFuelFilter_zps747dca28.jpg.html)
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No words needed.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/darrenbalboa26/1200SportFuelFilter_zps747dca28.jpg) (http://s975.photobucket.com/user/darrenbalboa26/media/1200SportFuelFilter_zps747dca28.jpg.html)
No words needed to start a general panic.
But it's good to put a pic on perspective.
I think we've had exactly two reports in a decade.
That rate of failure could easily be defective individual components and not a pattern liability.
And that's a point easier made with words.
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Not suggesting panic at all, just to do due diligence in a timely manner.
Some data points. 2008 1200 Sport, Bought in May 2010, approx. 30,000 miles and 26 months use. 90% real gas use. Bike running great then quit like the kill switch was hit. Happened while on an out of state trip, so kind of sucked a little bit (to steal a phrase).
In 2013 I bought a Stelvio and had 20,000 miles on it in 15 months and hadn't done the filter yet, but would have eventually, like the first time I pulled off the tank, and wasn't stressing over it not being done. Parts are cheap and work is easy, so no reason to ignore it for over 25,000 miles, unless you like to gamble (this is my opinion). Of course I could just be that one in several thousand kind of guy. That was the only time the bike, or other two Guzzis, ever failed to get me where I wanted to go.
I don't know if it was the plastic softening and coming apart or just a defective/weak crimp. But I had heard about it and pretty easy for even me to diagnose. I don't think it was ethanol related because I only put that in the bike on trips when real gas wasn't available.
YMMV...
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Fair enough, that's a great report.
But it definitely required words lol.
:thumb:
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The filter on my EV was so clogged up with rust no fuel was getting through. This was a metal tank though, rust is caused by the recessed moat drain plugging up and sending water into the tank, I doubt you would get that on a plastic tank as you observed.
I also just had my fuel filter and air filter replaced on my EV.
I don't know when or if the originals were replaced so I had it done. I saw the old air filter and it was time it was replaced. Peter said the fuel filter was an original type but wasn't sure if it was the original from the factory .
He also had to replace a pair of fuel lines as they were hard and leaking at the fitted clamps. Also the oil pressure sender was leaking and he fixed that, too.
I'm happy and my Guzzi is happy!
Tom
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Excellent test Kev, thank you.