Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ponti_33609 on April 05, 2016, 12:32:39 PM
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Dumb question that I queried here and Googled on-line without luck.
So I understand the differences between a Guzzi Big and Small Block engine definition. My question is what are the other manufactures like Triumph, Honda and the like? What are they or considered something different?
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HD has Sportster and Big Twin.
The rest are kinda inline four, single, etc.
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Dumb question that I queried here and Googled on-line without luck.
So I understand the differences between a Guzzi Big and Small Block engine definition. My question is what are the other manufactures like Triumph, Honda and the like? What are they or considered something different?
So is "in-line, single, etc" a similar engine reference then?
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So is "in-line, single, etc" a similar engine reference then?
Not exactly . Honda has built several variations of single cylinder engines , slopers like the 50/65/90/110 CC motors , and the vertical 100/125 CC variant . Triumph built 350/500 CC engines on the same block , the 650/750 CC engines on a different block . There are many other examples like the Yamaha YZ 400/4 which was a different engine from the larger 4's , and the R65 BMW engine which was built on a different architecture than the other airheads .
Dusty
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AJS/Matchless used the same crankcase/bottom end on their 350 and 500 singles. Their 500 and 650 twins were much the same.
The 250 and 400 Honda twins used the same bike with the same architecture in the motor. The 400 was not a bad bike, the 250 was a slug.
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I'm not 100% sure I understand the question but here goes anyway: Guzzi has become knows for its V twin with the crankshaft in line with the wheels/frame. The basic variants were know as big block and small block and the displacement ranged from 350cc to 1200...or I guess the 1400 is also a BB. HD has stuck, more or less, with its 45 degree V twin in various displacement sizes but the engines are usually referred to according to what the heads look like...shovel head, knuckle head, etc. Most of the Japanese bike manufacturers have experimented with lots of other possible engine arrangements. They have had singles, inline twins, V twins, V four, inline fours, radial, so there is no signature Honda (for example) engine. They have made darn near everything. Ducati is known for the 90 degree V twin...but they also have made singles and V fours. It's complicated!!
I think it comes down to what a company can afford to do. Guzzi is so small that they have to stick with the same basic tooling. They can tweak from time to time but really cannot afford to risk the expense or possible loss of market share by making drastic changes. One of the great benefits of this slow progress is that we can share knowledge across quite a few model years and it's still valid.
Peter Y.
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Just to confuse things , you have the Boss Hoss car on two wheels , one version with a "small block" Chevrolet , and one with a "big block" Chevrolet . AND , what about the Amazonas or the Munch Mammoth , powered respectively by a boxer VW motor and a 1200 CC NSU car motor .
Dusty
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So take the old Honda's discussed. Would they be closer to a big or small block or is the inline 4 it's own thing?
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With Honda in line fours there really isn't a clear distinction between big and small block designation. They have made small ones, say 450 cc, middle ones, say 750 cc and big ones, say 1100cc . With guzzi the distinction is clear and simple, they only make a big and a small displacement version of basically the same motor. Hence the big and small block designations. I hope that makes some sence. :laugh:
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Dumb question that I queried here and Googled on-line without luck.
So I understand the differences between a Guzzi Big and Small Block engine definition. My question is what are the other manufactures like Triumph, Honda and the like? What are they or considered something different?
They are different.
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With all due respect, you basically asked for folks to detail out all the engines in all production motorcycles. It's a bit broad to expect people to describe in this little box.
It's great that you're asking about engines, but I'd recommend you do some reading.
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With all due respect, you basically asked for folks to detail out all the engines in all production motorcycles. It's a bit broad to expect people to describe in this little box.
It's great that you're asking about engines, but I'd recommend you do some reading.
Not my intention and as I started with I did some searching. Just wanted to basically know if they fit into different categories and based on the responses they do.
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That got me thinking! And avoiding the pain of my tax return :laugh:
Made me realise how much information is simply absorbed through meeting and talking with other riders and from reading magazines, forum posts etc.
As to big block and small block I do think it's a Guzzi thing produced by having two distinct product lines from the 1970s to date.
I'm amazed at the division it causes between Guzzista in the UK e.g. "I'd never ride a small block they're not proper Guzzis"
Does this happen in the US and elsewhere?
All the best
Steve
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So take the old Honda's discussed. Would they be closer to a big or small block or is the inline 4 it's own thing?
Bob, if I'm understanding your questions correctly you're asking if there is a universal definition of small block and big block, and the answer is simply NO.
The terms are used, rather loosely, when a company makes two (or possibly more) basic engine crankcase/block designs that are similar but of different physical sizes.
It's easy to see how that applies to Guzzi at certain periods of their history, and certainly easy to understand with Harley (Sportster unitized motor vs. Big Twins of various generations).
As has been pointed out there are times when you could see such a delineation with BMW airheads, though if memory serves that was never true with oilheads as I THINK even the R850R used the same physical block as the R1100R.
I'm sure if you look closely enough at other brands I'm sure you could find similar relationships between some of their motors, but many brands have so many other motors that it's not a commonly used term unless you're talking about a particular subset of their model line-up.
Use of the term with regards to one brand doesn't imply any similarities with a use of the term with another brand. So there is nothing in common say with a Guzzi big block or Harley big block EXCEPT that they each have a little brother in the form of a smallblock or Sportster motor that share their unique, respective designs.
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Bob, if I'm understanding your questions correctly you're asking if there is a universal definition of small block and big block, and the answer is simply NO.
The terms are used, rather loosely, when a company makes two (or possibly more) basic engine crankcase/block designs that are similar but of different physical sizes.
It's easy to see how that applies to Guzzi at certain periods of their history, and certainly easy to understand with Harley (Sportster unitized motor vs. Big Twins of various generations).
As has been pointed out there are times when you could see such a delineation with BMW airheads, though if memory serves that was never true with oilheads as I THINK even the R850R used the same physical block as the R1100R.
I'm sure if you look closely enough at other brands I'm sure you could find similar relationships between some of their motors, but many brands have so many other motors that it's not a commonly used term unless you're talking about a particular subset of their model line-up.
But there is nothing in common say with a Guzzi big block or Harley big block EXCEPT that they each have a little brother in the form of a smallblock or Sportster motor respectively.
Yes, this explains it best! Thx.