Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on April 13, 2016, 08:11:07 AM
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As many of you know, I'm a tool
whore enthusiast. :smiley:
Last fall, my favorite torque wrench
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zpscf268a56.jpg)
went udders skyward. Being Matco, of course it is guaranteed for life. Whose life? :smiley: I took it to Matco Man, and he gave me the :rolleyes: and said, "I haven't seen one of these for 30 years, but I'll give it a try." I was hoping for the best. It would even torque left hand fasteners, a rare thing, plus having a swivel head. Matco Man got with me a month or so ago, and said, "Sorry. There aren't any parts available, and hasn't been for years."
My memory is failing, but I think that he *gave* me that wrench 30 or so years ago.. he's an old airplane builder friend, so I guess it doesn't owe me much. :smiley:
I was fully prepared to spend the big bux on another lifetime tool, when I had an epiphany. At my age, it won't have to last all that long.. :smiley:
Started searching the web for something a little less pricey than Matco or Snap On, and found this:
http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24330-8-Inch-Torque-Wrench/dp/B00FMPKAD0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1460029159&sr=1-1&keywords=tekton+3+8+torque+wrench
Just received it yesterday, and I'm impressed. Finish and build quality is *much* better than I expected. Guaranteed for life, too (whose) :smiley: .. and 4% accuracy.
I'll recommend it to your attention. *Much* better than the typical cheap clicker.
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Reading the reviews, some complained of it being inaccurate at lower settings but very good customer support. I would buy one..
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Same thing happened to me Chuck w/my Snap-on in 08. I got it in 88, at some point the lever to switch from right to left came out, so I saved it in the case for w/I do the lefties. At some point I lost it out of the case. I figured I would get it fixed & recalibrated in 08. The Snap-on guy gave me a newer one to use till mine came back but after 90 days I was asking where mine went. Called IL for the work order and found out there were no more parts for mine. Snap-on gave me the newer one at a reduced price of 75% of the cost. Better than full price anyway. Still 20yrs isn't a lifetime.
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Reading the reviews, some complained of it being inaccurate at lower settings but very good customer support. I would buy one..
You have to remember that some of the "reviewers" are totally clueless. :smiley:
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Cool. Timely too. I had a tool box of my better tools stolen in Chicago. It'd been amassed over many years as a young broke Dad with a penchant for used tired Japanese 4x4's (Troopers and Subaru GL's) so I had a pretty good kit.
Now I'm down to a very basic collection, and my only torque wrench is an old Made in the USofA Montgomery Ward Beam style. not sure what the date would have to be to be entirely steel, handle and all, and meet that criteria. It's old. Well made, but, beam style. Now with a Guzzi in the shed, time to add a few key bits to the box. This'll be one.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/ED04DEE0-EC18-49AB-873A-3A154EC44C9A_zpsm1y8zwxx.jpg) (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/tiokimo/media/ED04DEE0-EC18-49AB-873A-3A154EC44C9A_zpsm1y8zwxx.jpg.html)
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That old beam style is still as accurate as the day it was made. I don't have the first problem with those, but sometimes, they are just plain inconvenient to use.
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Great review, I also need to add a clicker type to my toolbox and that will be likely the one. I also have a craftsman beam type like the one Kidsmoke posted that I've been using for the past few years. Before that, I used the best guess wrench..
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Just how are torque wrenches calibrated? Prolly a mega-buck electronic gadget for use where absolute precision is demanded. Sure would be nice to have something simple that would ,say, clamp in a bench vice for use in a home shop. Would only need to check a couple values in the range of the wrench, just to be sure all is well after an "incident" like the wrench jumping off the bench & hitting the concrete floor. Yea. **it happens.
ronkom
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When I was at Southern Aviation in Shreveport we had a master tourqe wrench calibrater that was sent to be calibrated every year so we didn't have to send our individual wrenches off to be calibrated , just checked them on that. Grandpa's old beam type OTC was spot on, like Chuck said. He's right about some of the reviewers too. At Royal Airlines we had a tourqe wrench for the prop nuts on G1 props, I think it was 1300 ftl lbs. after each use it was reset by clamping the end in a vice and turning it backwards. We always had the new guys with a vice on their toolbox do it on that. When it clicked it would clear off the tool box of every thing. Absolutely hilarious
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I also have a torque wrench that can no longer be calibrated, Snap-on of course. I looked at these new fangled electronic torque transducer thingies. One review I read said that the ones from Harbor Freight are very accurate over the entire range, also the ones provided by Delco. I have not purchased one yet, has anyone else availed themselves of this new techonology or have any comments that are pertinent?
Brian
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That old beam style is still as accurate as the day it was made. I don't have the first problem with those, but sometimes, they are just plain inconvenient to use.
Thanks for that. I was told years ago that the beam type was accurate but it's good to hear it from you.
Rule of thumb on WG-- if Chuck or Charlie say something, listen.
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I would think it would be quite easy to make a wrench checker with a weight or scale and lever.
I wonder how important it is to have an wrench when the bolt tightness is effected so much by thread state, lube etc.
I have seen mechanics tighten the bolts on a turbine by measuring the stretch (hollow bolt) that must be more accurate isn't it?
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Where is the Tekton wrench made?
Taiwan. It appears to be very good quality.
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Just how are torque wrenches calibrated? Prolly a mega-buck electronic gadget for use where absolute precision is demanded. Sure would be nice to have something simple that would ,say, clamp in a bench vice for use in a home shop. Would only need to check a couple values in the range of the wrench, just to be sure all is well after an "incident" like the wrench jumping off the bench & hitting the concrete floor. Yea. **it happens.
ronkom
Ron, what I use to check the clicker is my beam wrench. An 8 point socket on the clicker will fit the half inch beam wrench. Get the picture? :smiley:
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I would think it would be quite easy to make a wrench checker with a weight or scale and lever.
I wonder how important it is to have an wrench when the bolt tightness is effected so much by thread state, lube etc.
I have seen mechanics tighten the bolts on a turbine by measuring the stretch (hollow bolt) that must be more accurate isn't it?
Absolutely, but not warranted on our ditch pumps. :smiley:
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Thanks for that. I was told years ago that the beam type was accurate but it's good to hear it from you.
Rule of thumb on WG-- if Chuck or Charlie say something, listen.
Thanks, John.. but I'm not in Charlie's league on Guzzi stuff. That said, I *can* tell you about torque wrenches. I use them in industrial applications, and probably have more experience with them than most. On one of my jobs, I'll do several hundred torque settings per day. I have all kinds of them, from inch lbs. to 200 ft. lbs.
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Well, boys, as long as we're havin' a torque wrench thread, here's the final authority on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdVR6T0cxXg
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Totally bad ass and self calibrating. :thumb:
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ichibon has taught me about everything I know.. :thumb: Wish I'd seen how to make the bad ass torque wrench before I wasted my money on one. :smiley:
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The manager at the local Discount Tire told me to bring mine in and check them on a calibrator they have.
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I'm probably in for a good flaming, but here goes. I've got one of those $12 jobbies from Harbor Freight. Accuracy claims are plus or minus 4 ft lbs. I don't do a whole lot of wrenching, my LeMans is currently a patient of The Guzzi Doctor, but for the occasional axle nut I need to torque after a tire change, it's great.
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Ok, put on your flame suit. plus or minus 4 lbs is pretty useless at a 10 lb setting. :evil:
For an axle nut, "tighten it until you fart." (Roperism) :smiley: No torque wrench needed.
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I also have a torque wrench that can no longer be calibrated, Snap-on of course. I looked at these new fangled electronic torque transducer thingies. One review I read said that the ones from Harbor Freight are very accurate over the entire range, also the ones provided by Delco. I have not purchased one yet, has anyone else availed themselves of this new techonology or have any comments that are pertinent?
Brian
I have the one from Harbor Freight - I've compared it to a range of traditional ones, and it seems pretty consistent and accurate. I've not tested it on an actual torque calibrator. However, it does mean I can carry a torque wrench on the bike while traveling. One thing to note is that it uses a 1/2" drive (F for handle, M for sockets) so you need to have a 1/2" drive wrench or speed handle, or carry adapters for both ends. Using the adapters has the potential to introduce a degree of error in torque values, but so far I haven't found a problem.
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Ok, put on your flame suit. plus or minus 4 lbs is pretty useless at a 10 lb setting. :evil:
For an axle nut, "tighten it until you fart." (Roperism) :smiley: No torque wrench needed.
Actually, Harbor Freight claims (!) accuracy +/- 4%, not 4 ft-lbs, on their traditional torque wrenches, and 2% on the electronic one (which BTW doesn't have much low range). Whether that claim is valid in the real world is a good question..
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Your new one looks (except for the labeling) exactly like the ones at Harbor Freight, right down to the case it comes in.
I'm using a thirty year old plus Craftsman. Still within spec.
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I'm a gearhead (tool whore) who has followed the torque wrench debate for many years. One thing that has stood out is that these tools are most accurate over the middle 60% of their range. As an example, a torque wrench with a range of 0-100 lb/ft would be most accurate from 20~80 lb/ft. This means that you really need a couple wrenches, maybe even three. The first would be for light applications (the 10NM axle pinch bolts on my Stelvio comes to mind), the next for stuff in the 10lb/ft~80lb/ft range, and a final one for really cranking down on things like the wheel nuts on the Stelvio (110NM). The good news is that these tools are not horribly expensive and give peace of mind for those of us who do not have calibrated muscles. Years ago it was shown that a very experienced mechanic could do just as well as a torque wrench. I'm not that good or lucky.
Peter Y.
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I would think it would be quite easy to make a wrench checker with a weight or scale and lever.
I wonder how important it is to have an wrench when the bolt tightness is effected so much by thread state, lube etc.
I have seen mechanics tighten the bolts on a turbine by measuring the stretch (hollow bolt) that must be more accurate isn't it?
The most accurate methods of tightening a fastener in descending order of accuracy.
Stretch
Torque to angle
Torque wrench
Ive been using the Warren and Brown wrenches for over 40 years to torque everything from motorcycle cylinder heads and cases to 747 main wheels and engine mount bolts.
Its actually triple signal so you always know if its hit the selected torque. You can hear it, see it and most of the time feel when it triggers. Able to be easily calibrated and safe to back fasteners off with it.
Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfj8vJJkc5g
Ciao
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Sorry if I missed something Chuck, but why didn't Matco give you a new one? Warranty should mean something....
Mark
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The warranty was for life....of the wrench
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Not good business - would have earned far more to replace or substantial discount....
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Okay, another dumb question. How does using an extension on a torque wrench effect torque values?
Or does it?
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It's difficult to hold the extension straight up from the fastener so it will add a moment arm to the torque wrench will render errors in the final figure.
Also, at high torque values the extension can twist, affecting the torque value. And both can happen.
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Okay, another dumb question. How does using an extension on a torque wrench effect torque values?
Or does it?
An extension, (from the socket attach point on the wrench to the fastener point) does change the wrench setting. Its dependent on the distance from the wrench socket attach point and the fastener point of the extension and also the angle at which the extension is in relation to the center line of the wrench. Its a basic formula which you will be able to find on line. Never bothered to commit to memory.
If you mean a straight ratchet extension, no impact on wrench setting.
Try http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing_spec/calculator/torque_adapter_extension.htm
Ciao
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Sorry if I missed something Chuck, but why didn't Matco give you a new one? Warranty should mean something....
Mark
Matco Man (Steve) *gave* me that wrench 30 or so years ago. It was in my original post. I'd have felt a little funny asking him to warrant it.. :smiley:
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well then that makes sense....
Glad you got good service out of it then and it more than lived its life I'm sure.
Mark
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Chuck,
Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I passed my old bean wrench on to my Son when I got my fancy click wrench.
FYI, When I retired from the R&D lab & no longer had access to precision balances for checking piston/rod weights etc. I bought a Harbor Freight "compact scale". I had a friend back at the lab make me up a plastic bottle w/lead shot to an exact weight, to calibrate my new scale. Bummer report, the thing would not consistently repeat readings to near the accuracy I wanted. I hope HF is using better Chinese electronics in their electronic torque wrench.
ronkom
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It's difficult to hold the extension straight up from the fastener so it will add a moment arm to the torque wrench will render errors in the final figure.
Also, at high torque values the extension can twist, affecting the torque value. And both can happen.
From the original post
Chuck said " plus having a swivel head"
I wondered how that effects the torque setting?
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From the original post
Chuck said " plus having a swivel head"
I wondered how that effects the torque setting?
Ok, let's do the math. Say the effective length of the torque wrench is 14", and the head is swiveled 10 degrees. Let's pick a number, say 20 ft. lbs. Doing the trig, the effective perpendicular length is now 14" -.2127" . .2127/14 = .015, so you'd have to add .015% to the 20 ft lb reading, which would be 20.3
At least that seems right to me. For all practical purposes, I never used to worry about it. The important thing with torque is to make all the fasteners the same. You would be surprised at how well an experienced mechanic can do that.
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There is a fellow I know who took his torque wrench to work and chucked the half inch drive in a vice then started cranking. His foreman asked what he was doing and he answered, "Calibrating my torque wrench." which was his arm. :thumb: