Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bpreynolds on April 20, 2016, 02:56:19 PM
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Now before anyone accuses me of not having warm blood flowing through my body, let me say they are nice bikes, there's no doubt about that. But when I strolled into my local dealer I expected to be knocked off my feet. The photos are stunning. Online the attention to details and such seems outlandishly awesome. And I generally love Triumphs. But there they were right in front of me, a Thruxton R, a Street Twin, and a new T120 and I'll be darned if I didn't feel a little let down by the whole package of each one. The R had been pre-purchased but the owner backed out of the deal when it arrived with no details as to why. The T120 had some nice touches and I was surprised that I actually found myself gravitating more to it than any of the others, but even then nothing made me want to get out the checkbook. Something about the tank shape on the R in person that bothered me and didn't come off nearly as well to my eyes in person as in pics. I guess, I dunno, all these bikes including the Ducati Scramblers sitting next to them, very nice machines, but they all in person strike me a little bit of trying too hard for something that Guzzi seems to get without even trying. Even bikes like the Racers that are kind of over the top in styling still seem tastefully authentic when compared with the bikes I saw today. All subjective, of course. And golly, you'd have to be a hater to kick either of those new Triumphs or even the Duc Scramber out of the garage, but still I wasn't nearly as impressed as I thought I'd be. I'm sure Triumph will sell - and a I understand it, already have sold - a bundle of them.
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That's because you own a Griso :thumb:
I'm still as happy with mine as the day I bought it and I don't see anything else I'd like more. I saw the Triumph's at first and thought maybe, but no thanks.
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Interesting. I'll have to head down to the local Triumph dealer to take a look. That whole pics vs real life thing can go either way. Sometimes, months of anticipation just can't match the reality of the bike or the reality of what that 40/50 year old bike we remember was like to ride and maintain.
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Completely subjective of course, but seeing them in the flesh, the radiator ruined it for me. Aesthetics are such a major piece of owning a retro bike like this, but so much of that is lost with the radiator. It's sort of a slippery slope -- if I'm going to have a radiator, why not have a mono-shock as well, etc.
On the other hand, I'm really impressed by what they did with the fuel efficiency (in part of function of liquid cooling, of course). Aesthetics aside, the Street Twin has some appeal.
The Thruxton R kind of struck me as having a "trying too hard" quality to it, aesthetically. More like a vanity project than a real café racer. People criticize the 9T (which I own) of being this way, but I think the Thrux goes even further.
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I'm still waiting to see them in person, and I still expect to like the T120 a LOT.
But with Harley just releasing a new XL1200 Roadster... I THINK I might have found what is going to join our fleet next!
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
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I'm still waiting to see them in person, and I still expect to like the T120 a LOT.
But with Harley just releasing a new XL1200 Roadster... I THINK I might have found what is going to join our fleet next!
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
that does look nice.. in the pic at least..
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Now before anyone accuses me of not having warm blood flowing through my body, let me say they are nice bikes, there's no doubt about that. But when I strolled into my local dealer I expected to be knocked off my feet. The photos are stunning. Online the attention to details and such seems outlandishly awesome. And I generally love Triumphs. But there they were right in front of me, a Thruxton R, a Street Twin, and a new T120 and I'll be darned if I didn't feel a little let down by the whole package of each one. The R had been pre-purchased but the owner backed out of the deal when it arrived with no details as to why. The T120 had some nice touches and I was surprised that I actually found myself gravitating more to it than any of the others, but even then nothing made me want to get out the checkbook. Something about the tank shape on the R in person that bothered me and didn't come off nearly as well to my eyes in person as in pics. I guess, I dunno, all these bikes including the Ducati Scramblers sitting next to them, very nice machines, but they all in person strike me a little bit of trying too hard for something that Guzzi seems to get without even trying. Even bikes like the Racers that are kind of over the top in styling still seem tastefully authentic when compared with the bikes I saw today. All subjective, of course. And golly, you'd have to be a hater to kick either of those new Triumphs or even the Duc Scramber out of the garage, but still I wasn't nearly as impressed as I thought I'd be. I'm sure Triumph will sell - and a I understand it, already have sold - a bundle of them.
What your suffering from here is you have hyped it up so much in your mind that it cant really be anything but slightly disappointing in the metal.
Happens to me with movies when I see the shorts. looking forward to seeing it so much that it never meets expectations.
Then again some bike just Photograph really well and don't look so good in the flesh and others like the Grisso I think look lousy in photos and much better in the metal.
Ciao
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Oh a post about what someone doesn't like......this will go 30-40 pages :rolleyes:
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I'm still waiting to see them in person, and I still expect to like the T120 a LOT.
But with Harley just releasing a new XL1200 Roadster... I THINK I might have found what is going to join our fleet next!
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
Ok Kev....but when you decide to pick up that new Sporty I call dibs on your current one!
Terry
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I went down to the new location of AZ Superbike for Guzzi bits and had an opportunity to look at the new Triumphs as well.
I came away much the same in that while I was not particularly disappointed, I did expect more form them in the "flesh".
It seems they are very excellently portrayed in advertising and review photos but in person they were just "nice".
Not at all bad, and in fact, I really didn't think much about the lack of impact until reading this thread... Just kinda - nice.
As far as these are concerned:
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
Taking what I enjoy the hell outa in my own Spurtster and adding a fine injection (though my Sport has the best set up carb that I've ever ridden), rubber mounts, dual-four pot brakes and better suspension travel than my Hugger - it looks tough to beat in its class and outside of its class in some cases.
I'd like to have their Cop/Fire side bags on it for utility's sake.
Todd.
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A Triumph thread has only one picture. It's of a Harley - and it appear four times. - just sayin'
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I'm still waiting to see them in person, and I still expect to like the T120 a LOT.
But with Harley just releasing a new XL1200 Roadster... I THINK I might have found what is going to join our fleet next!
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
This is very good looking bike, a real competition for MG bikes. I was thinking to add a BMW RnineT to my stable next year but now I have to seriously revisit my plans :)
Thanks Kev_m for posting this :)
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I was thinking to add a BMW RnineT to my stable next year but now I have to seriously revisit my plans :)
There's another interesting variation on real and media based perceptions right there.
They had an RNineT in the entrance of AZ Superbike and compared to the photos and video I had seen of it, it was stunning in person. Quite the opposite of the effect of the Triumphs on me in that reality beat out media-sell.
It looked considerably smaller and better thought out than I had perceived from the media surrounding it.
Todd.
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I'm still waiting to see them in person, and I still expect to like the T120 a LOT.
But with Harley just releasing a new XL1200 Roadster... I THINK I might have found what is going to join our fleet next!
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
Why buy new, when slightly used will do. Tons of 1200's for under 5k.
~just sayin'
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I've seen the 900 and the T120 in the flesh and I was as impressed as I had been with the photographs. Great effort from Triumph. The Thruxton is going to be a hot rod.
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Why buy new, when slightly used will do. Tons of 1200's for under 5k.
~just sayin'
Tons of em, sure, like the one in my garage (which isn't going anywhere anytime soon cause it's my tour bike, when I'm not doing it on the V7).
That said, this offers a lot...
ABS
Keyless ignition
USD forks
Lighter wheels
Smaller instrument pod
The cosmetics I've preferred since I saw my first Sturgis Shovelhead models.
Hell, I've hated a lot of the gaudy Harley tank graphics over the years. Even in my first Harley I bought new in 93 I had a new tank custom painted and hand lettered. Nice, simple, name instead of a gaudy badge. So they even got that right on this one.
Yeah, I could save a few bucks building this, but it would be a compromise or cost more once I figured my own labor.
I'd rather just add to the fleet.
In other news, discussing it with Jenn. She thinks she might want to add a Ducati Scrambler decked out for touring as her second bike.
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Picked up the STRX 675 at my dealer today. While waiting, asked about the new Bonnies: still NONE on floor. All pre-ordered, all sold, all picked up so far. The T120 turns my eye, maybe.
That XL1200 is pretty, do they make it in other than flat black? Must weigh a ton though.
Been pondering empty space in my moto-only garage a bit. Still thinking about the BMW F800GT...a lightweight, made for touring bike.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/car-reviews/bmw-f800gt-review-not-hellraiser-4109198
By the way, the Trumpet has a cpu remap, new firmware, and was checked thoroughly. No clear cause as to no-idle. Triumph America (top level) got interested in my experience after I answered a one-year owner's poll and gave them the story. We need dry weather here in Houston, TEXAS and I will take the Trumpet for a 200 miler and hopefully rebuild confidence in the bike.
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I saw a Street Twin in the flesh and thought "home run." As for the radiator, didn't bother me in the least. I liked the way they made it smallish without any attempt to hide it-it is what it is. Euro 4 is responsible, as we all know.
I've had 3 Hinkley Bonnies and found them all great. Got a V7 for a change of pace-very pleased with that machine as well.
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Triumph the company here in the US are good people and have great customer service, and their dealers always seem happy.
I'm with the OP, saw a T120 in the flesh and was underwhelmed. Don't know why. Forgettable bike.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that Harley looks like if you sat on it you'd be humping a horse while grabbing his ears, while he is sitting on his haunches. Where is a "puke" emoticon when you need one??
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I was pretty impressed with new Triumph. It looks lighter and smaller than the last Bonnie, sized and looks more like the original IMO.
And then you have a spirited Thruxton that looks tasty and should actually perform. :thumb:
Sorry, I won't even get comment on a Sportster. :whip2:
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it looks like we're all agreed, then.
Brian, you'll be trading your Griso in on a new Sportster.
Enjoy.
Ralph
ps: Will you be wanting your black leather jacket back?
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Well, as I wrote in another thread, I had the opportunity to compare the new Triumph bikes directly to the V9. The Guzzi in comparison simply looks more valuable. More genuine. But: the new Triumphs all are nice bikes. In my opinion they are at par with the Honda CB 1100.
The Harley is great! I am really delighted they have a Roadster again in the Sportster lineup.
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Girlfriend got herself a Street Twin some weeks ago. Nice looking bikes. There are some areas where modifications would be appropriate. Like spedometer, front light mounting brakets, the headlight itself... however that is subjective. I just don't like the finish of those components. On the other hand there are many aftermarket suppliers offering a bazillion of parts. The bike itself runs very nice and I like the engine compared to the previous iteration. More punch, more character... less "linear" but still predictable. Well done.
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Well, as I wrote in another thread, I had the opportunity to compare the new Triumph bikes directly to the V9. The Guzzi in comparison simply looks more valuable. More genuine. But: the new Triumphs all are nice bikes. In my opinion they are at par with the Honda CB 1100.
The Harley is great! I am really delighted they have a Roadster again in the Sportster lineup.
Funny you should mention the CB as it immediately came to mind when I was looking at these new Triumphs, me even thinking the Honda pulls the styling off a bit better.
As per the Harley, I've had posts on this board proclaiming my fondness for the Sportster line. Great looking bike and I've obviously always preferred the standard peg mounts so that one is indeed sharp.
it looks like we're all agreed, then.
Brian, you'll be trading your Griso in on a new Sportster.
Enjoy.
Ralph
ps: Will you be wanting your black leather jacket back?
Ralph, you must keep the coat; everyone knows you look better than I do in any leather jacket. Just yesterday I was riding and sporting my Roland Sands leather bike jacket (purchased at 1/3 cost at the local Motorcycle Superstore Warehouse here in Louisville). Walking into a store I caught a glimpse of my librarian self in the store window, sadly much more Nerd About the Word than Rebel Without a Cause.
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"Walking into a store I caught a glimpse of my librarian self in the store window, sadly much more Nerd About the Word than Rebel Without a Cause."
Now that was funny!
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Ok Kev....but when you decide to pick up that new Sporty I call dibs on your current one!
Terry
I'm glad you like Terry. Though even if I do get the new 1200R in the next year or so, I'm currently planning on keeping the XL1200Lr as my "touring" bike. At least until the kids are old enough that they can both accompany Jenn and I to rallys and such, at which point I'd probably replace it with a larger "touring" bike (Cali 1400, Dyna, RK, etc.).
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that Harley looks like if you sat on it you'd be humping a horse while grabbing his ears, while he is sitting on his haunches. Where is a "puke" emoticon when you need one??
Well, like you said - Beauty is in the eye of the Beer-Holder, so I can't argue at all except to say I feel differently. And that's cool.
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Some like, some not. The only modern Triumph models that have a soul are the triples IMO. The others may look retro but the 270 crank kills it for me. The few that I have ridden were almost Honda bland. The Sportster has never looked right-like a German Shepherd. Low in the hips and tall at the head. No offence intended to those who love them, just not for me.
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Triples?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/triumph_trident_t140_agostini_zpsrjvwwpwj.jpg)
So Mr. Marketing Guy, whats Iconic with the new twins? :boozing:
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Is it me or does that guy look really tiny on that bike? Can his feet even touch the ground? Did he need a hand to mount that steed???
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Is it me or does that guy look really tiny on that bike? Can his feet even touch the ground? Did he need a hand to mount that steed???
Speaking of horses.. :evil: I agree with your simile, btw.. maybe that guy did like I used to do when I was 3-4 years old. I'd put the bridle on Connie, lead her over to the fence, climb the fence and clamber on. :smiley:
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Here's a really short rider on a very tall bike. Once in the saddle, or more appropriately, standing on the pegs, there was no stopping him. Gaston Rahier, riding for BMW in the 1980s.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n284/bcgilligan/Gaston%20Rahier_zpsuan7h373.jpg
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Triples?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/triumph_trident_t140_agostini_zpsrjvwwpwj.jpg)
So Mr. Marketing Guy, whats Iconic with the new twins? :boozing:
Yeah, I stared at this photo for a while, and finally said to myself (i'm the only one that'll listen to me), "I don't remember those bikes being THAT big.
I was glad to see that in the very next post, someone pointed out the very thing that bothered me about the photo. What I don't understand is: Why has nothing been said about the front fender looking backwards on the sportster? I don't like the radiators (or the chains) on the Triumphs. The small ones don't have radiators, do they? Are the chains maintenance free? Do you still have to adjust the rear wheel like you used to on older chain bikes? Do you have to do it on belt bikes?
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What I don't understand is: Why has nothing been said about the front fender looking backwards on the sportster? I don't like the radiators (or the chains) on the Triumphs. The small ones don't have radiators, do they? Are the chains maintenance free? Do you still have to adjust the rear wheel like you used to on older chain bikes? Do you have to do it on belt bikes?
To answer a few of those questions:
* Sportster fenders are highly stylized/chopped, but not uncommon in the industry.
* No, chains are not maintenance free.
* You have to adjust the rear wheel on chain or belt bikes. Though I'll say both are quite infrequent these days unless you're abusing them. It's not uncommon for a belt to last 100k+ miles and not need to be adjusted any more often than the rear tire is replaced.
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I have been feeling the same about current bikes. I think it's because I'm really happy with the bikes I have. I find myself asking if the new models answer as well for me as my Vintage and my Triumph T100. So far, the answer has been a resounding, "NO!"
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Yeah, I stared at this photo for a while, and finally said to myself (i'm the only one that'll listen to me), "I don't remember those bikes being THAT big.
I was glad to see that in the very next post, someone pointed out the very thing that bothered me about the photo. What I don't understand is: Why has nothing been said about the front fender looking backwards on the sportster? I don't like the radiators (or the chains) on the Triumphs. The small ones don't have radiators, do they? Are the chains maintenance free? Do you still have to adjust the rear wheel like you used to on older chain bikes? Do you have to do it on belt bikes?
Triples?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/triumph_trident_t140_agostini_zpsrjvwwpwj.jpg)
So Mr. Marketing Guy, whats Iconic with the new twins? :boozing:
Is that a Brylcreem hairdo or just a weird streamlined helmet? :undecided:
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Some like, some not. The only modern Triumph models that have a soul are the triples IMO.
:1:
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(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q679/poconos/XS11_DD_011016_Pull_4a_zpslwfynl7r.jpg)
I saw the Harley and it reminded me of the XS11 custom a friend of mine is building. His is from a parts bike he bought with a hacked frame. The shortened rear doesn't appeal to me, especially on the long wheel base XS, but the Harley reminded me of it straight away.
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To answer a few of those questions:
* Sportster fenders are highly stylized/chopped, but not uncommon in the industry.
* No, chains are not maintenance free.
* You have to adjust the rear wheel on chain or belt bikes. Though I'll say both are quite infrequent these days unless you're abusing them. It's not uncommon for a belt to last 100k+ miles and not need to be adjusted any more often than the rear tire is replaced.
Sportsters are chick bikes. :evil:
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And there you have it. Everybody HANG ON!
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Sportsters are chick bikes. :evil:
Omg, it was hilarious yesterday.
Jenn and I ride down to the Harley dealer near AC to inquire when we might get a chance see the R.
On the way we talked about what we might want to do when the kids are older and can accompany us to a rally. Her Monster isn't going to cut it 2-up with a kid.
So when we got there she stood up a Dyna and a Softail just to see.
The salesman must have noted that, but left us alone for a while.
When he finally asked us if he could help and we started chatting about the new R he, at one point, broke into the conversation with "so this would be for her" and Jenn and I started cracking up.
He immediately said "I just saw her trying on bikes for size and thought, but sure it's good for you too" or something like that. It was funny.
I explained, that no Jenn already had a Sportster and hasn't touched it in 4 years since she got her Ducati. And that she was just confirming that she has no interest in any other Harleys lol.
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I like the look of the HD Roadster. But I still think I would go with a Roamer/Bobber. The HD does put out some huge torque numbers, toping out at 70 some odd at 3700 rpm, but the V9 hits max torque at 3000, but at 45LB, its a long toss to 70! But the Guzzi is a much smaller motor.
But its the weight that, at least on paper, glares. The V9 on the road weighs 432, the HD comes in at 564. A 130 pounds no mater how low you carry it, is still 130lb. Don't get me wrong, for a 1200cc air cooled bike, the HD is not far off the 1100 Breva I ride daily, though the Breva does have a CARC, but nevertheless it still well in the ball bark.
I'll bet the Roadster is a blast on the line, I would like to ride one before they are discontinued in an year or two do to slow sales.
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Somebody forgot to put a fender on the front of that Sportster that fits, and in the process they lost the back half of the rear fender. Other than that......
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Somebody forgot to put a fender on the front of that Sportster that fits, and in the process they lost the back half of the rear fender. Other than that......
Yes, if you ride on anything but a clean/dry road, you will be slinging up a lot of debris on the motor's front and maybe the rider's back!
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Small fenders? You guys HAVE seen other motorcycles recently right?
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/sportster/roadster/gallery-images/dom/16-hd-roadster-1-large.jpg)
(http://www.ducati.com/cms-web/upl/MediaGalleries/732/MediaGallery_732521/Color_M-1200S_Red_01_1067x600.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/100614top-i.jpg)
(http://cdn.silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Triumph-Thruxton-R-1.jpg)
(http://images.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/media-library/Images/Configurator/MY16/Speed%20Triple/NN3/RHS/NN3_MY15_Speed_Triple_PR_RHS.png?w=600)
Need I go on... :boozing:
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New Triumphs; +++++
New Harleys; ---------
I owned a Harley once, I won't do it twice.
I have 4 Triumphs
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Some like, some not. The only modern Triumph models that have a soul are the triples IMO. The others may look retro but the 270 crank kills it for me. The few that I have ridden were almost Honda bland. The Sportster has never looked right-like a German Shepherd. Low in the hips and tall at the head. No offence intended to those who love them, just not for me.
I agree about the 270 degree crank. Having ridden and early 360 bike and the later Scrambler with the 270 crank, the 270 is completely bland. New York pizza vs Dominos.
I have an 800 triple and while the power band is sweet I still haven't warmed up to the gear whine and 4 cylinder sounding exhaust note.
Pete
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My good riding buddy just took delivery of a lovely 2016 Bonneville T120 in Cranberry and Silver. Deja vu all over again ....... made me flash back to when he took delivery of one of the first 2001 Bonnie 790s in the country in early 2001. Same colors ....... 15 years later. I haven't had the opportunity to ride it yet ....... thought I'd wait until the tedium of break-in was completed. I'm hoping I don't like it, because the Griso sale has left some bucks in the new bike fund. I'm still entertaining the thought of picking up a 2014 CB1100. There's a bunch of those still unsold at dealers across the country (check Cycle Trader), and the prices aren't going up! Not sure I'd like the four cylinder feedback, but they appear to be nicely finished bikes. With a set of hard luggage, I think it'd be a do it all machine.
I do wish that Triumph had retained the 360 degree crankshaft on their new twins. If I want v twin sound, I have Guzzi for that. I love the exhaust note of the earlier T100 with TOR (Triumph Off Road) mufflers. Now that does sound like the 1960s!
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My friends 790 had Staintunes installed after the "off road" mufflers. Now that was sweet. Never understood why he sold that bike. With all the other tweaks it was making 62HP at the rear wheel. A whole lot of fun.
Pete
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My friends 790 had Staintunes installed after the "off road" mufflers. Now that was sweet. Never understood why he sold that bike. With all the other tweaks it was making 62HP at the rear wheel. A whole lot of fun.
Pete
There is so much aftermarket stuff for the 790 and 865 Bonnies. They can be as mild-mannered (or not) as you want to make them. The basic engine design lends itself to performance mods (DOHC, 4V per cylinder, short stroke.) Your buddy's 62hp at rear wheel must have been in the 70+ at the crank, which would make for a nice-performing Bonneville. My totally-stock 790 was mild-mannered, but it was adequate. She'd run nicely all day at 70mph +. Longest single day was from Lacrosse WI to Waseon OH, approx. 540 miles.
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I can tell you it was all done without getting inside the motor. Just the typical intake, exhaust and timing mods. It didn't alter tractability at all just more responsive when you twisted the throttle.
Pete
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Funny you should mention the CB as it immediately came to mind when I was looking at these new Triumphs, me even thinking the Honda pulls the styling off a bit better.
As per the Harley, I've had posts on this board proclaiming my fondness for the Sportster line. Great looking bike and I've obviously always preferred the standard peg mounts so that one is indeed sharp.
Ralph, you must keep the coat; everyone knows you look better than I do in any leather jacket. Just yesterday I was riding and sporting my Roland Sands leather bike jacket (purchased at 1/3 cost at the local Motorcycle Superstore Warehouse here in Louisville). Walking into a store I caught a glimpse of my librarian self in the store window, sadly much more Nerd About the Word than Rebel Without a Cause.
Depending on the Kentucky DMV rules, a winged wheel motorcycle cap with a Speidel chrome expanding watch band might get you "the look". Especially if you wear a white T shirt with a pack of Luckies rolled up in one sleeve. You'll get more respect that way, Rodney.
Ralph
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Last night I read the Rider magazine glowing review of both the T120 and the new Thruxton.
One thing that stood out to me and, frankly, causes me concern about the Thruxton is it's frame and steering geometry. The wheelbase of the T120 is 56.9 inches while the Thruxton is shortened to 55.7. Part of this is resulting from the steepened steering angle of the Thruxton. The T120 has 25.5 degrees of rake with 4.14 inches of trail (traditional numbers) while the Thruxton has a rake of 22.8 degrees and 3.6 inches of trail.
The numbers for the Thruxton classify it as a short, stubby bike with a steep steering head.
I'm sure this shaves the bike's perceived weight and makes it into a very quick-steering animal that feels like a nimble bicycle in the parking lot and a sportbike on curvy roads and switchbacks. However, I have concerns about it being jittery, especially at speed.
I have experienced this with the new water-cooled BMW GS introduced in 2013. BMW steepened the steering angle and reduced trail of 3.5 inches. The BMW felt light and very quick-steering. However, it felt jittery and unstable at speed. In 2014, BMW relaxed the steering angle, extending trail to 3.9 inches and added a steering stabilizer. It still feels jittery to me.
Anyway, hard to know without an extended test ride. The magazine testers don't seem to capture issues like this. I love the look and engine specs of the new Thruxton. That 3.6 inches of trail concerns me.
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Small fenders? You guys HAVE seen other motorcycles recently right?
Need I go on... :boozing:
Yep, that's the trend. Makes the front end look lighter by exposing the wheel. Still, as a practical matter in everyday use, you're gonna get a lot of crud up front. Just keep a wash brush handy and/or maybe try a Fendaextenda.
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I test sat them yesterday, to me very nice looking bikes. The Street Twin seat is low, to tight for me, T120 felt pretty good and the Thurxton wouldn't be an all day ride but better then my Lemans. The shop also sold Roayl Enfield what great looking bikes, if they could just bring them up to a little more modern performance...
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Why did they go to a 270 degree crank?
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The problem with doing retro styling is that the manufacturer has to really nail it. If even a few details are off it ruins it for me. These new Bonnevilles do look good in the promotional pictures. However, I've been around long enough to know that all new bikes are shown in the best light and look great in the promotional pictures. Hopefully, I'll see the Bonnevilles soon and will like the look.
Ducati's sport classics were a huge disappointment to me when they came out around 2006/7. So many details were completely off. The tanks were so huge and wide. The rear end of the bike was jacked up like a sport bike. The dual exhaust worst laid out extremely wide and away from the bike, whereas, a classic bike has the exhaust tucked in tight to the frame. My problem is that I actually know what these bikes should look like
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The 270 crank runs a lot like the MG 90 L-twin. It develops good power up high and less vibration. The 270 engine runs without both pistons stopping at the same time. When one reaches TDC, the other is at mid stroke. Arguably, it's a better design.
I have a 360 twin motorcycle and I love it. It does start to get unpleasant at speeds over 60 mph, although it will happily do the ton.
(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff485/jetmechmarty/Dogwood%202016/DSCN4692_zpstftxdo15.jpg) (http://s1238.photobucket.com/user/jetmechmarty/media/Dogwood%202016/DSCN4692_zpstftxdo15.jpg.html)
Many of these bikes have been converted to 277 over the years. It's a popular mod, albeit expensive.
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Why did they go to a 270 degree crank?
Feel.
It's funny that earlier some posters claimed the new Bonnies have no soul, but the Triples do.
Maybe that was true to some extent with the T100 variants, as they were a bit too smooth. But I never felt the Triples had much character either.
But reports are the 270 crank changes that and gives it a different feel.
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Yep, that's the trend. Makes the front end look lighter by exposing the wheel. Still, as a practical matter in everyday use, you're gonna get a lot of crud up front. Just keep a wash brush handy and/or maybe try a Fendaextenda.
Leafman, if you are up around DeKalb County I will let you ride my T120 around Little River Canyon.
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Why did they go to a 270 degree crank?
I believe "sound" has a lot to do with it. The 270 exhaust note is far more "exotic" than the 360's plodding blahhhh.
I picked up my Street Twin last week. Loving it so far. I think it looks awesome, it handles well, is a lot of fun to ride.
I ordered and am waiting for the optional 60's style plank seat, which will raise the seat height some and ease the knee bend a bit. The exhaust note is very pleasing on this bike, rather similar to a Ducati or Aprilia. 60mpg is rather noteworthy too.
Triumph emailed me a survey, and one of the questions was regarding my "decision for selecting the ST", and listed "sound" as one of the selections, along with looks, performance, etc. So Triumph is aware that muffler music is important to most, or at least some riders...one reason I never bought a BMW, lol.
I believe more parallel twins are going to the 270 crank...the Yamaha F7-07 comes to mind.
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I think my preference for the 360 engine's sound is rooted in my time amongst Meriden Triumphs. I consider the change to 270 engines akin to Harley Davidson going to a 180 degree format. It just doesn't sound like a Bonneville...
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I think they went the way of 270 crank because of the success of the Scrambler. They figured they couldn't lose doing it.
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I think my preference for the 360 engine's sound is rooted in my time amongst Meriden Triumphs. I consider the change to 270 engines akin to Harley Davidson going to a 180 degree format. It just doesn't sound like a Bonneville...
270 degree - or to some people 90 degree - cranks in Brit-twins have a, longer than the current Scrambler, history.
They've been limited manufacturer offerings, re-welds and heat-twisted mods for some time.
Sometimes it was for tractability advantages, sometimes for the inherently "smoother" operation and sometimes likely, just 'cause.
In any case, I doubt significant emphasis was place upon mere exhaust note though that would be a much more noticeable benefit to the curbside appeal crowd.
Todd.
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Leafman, if you are up around DeKalb County I will let you ride my T120 around Little River Canyon.
Thank you, much. I'm way down on the gulf coast. Little River is a great riding place. Been there many times.
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I rode my 2001 Bonneville to the local Triumph/Guzzi dealer today. He has a couple Street Twins and T120s on display. Also the other new Triumphs in the lineup. After looking at the more modern bikes available, I came to the conclusion that the non Bonneville bikes were either too tall or too "Insect looking" to appeal to me. The Street Twins had nice mag wheels, but only single disks front and rear. I much preferred the T120s, with triple disks, but they seem to only come with spoke wheels. I really like the Bonneville black. It seems a little more compact than my 2001. I liked the overall look, and a few of the features stood out. The fuel injectors are made to resemble Amal monoblock carbs, complete with the ring that held on the top of the "carb".Some may cry foul but to me it evoked memories of my older 60s triumphs. The front fender brackets are flat on the top side of the fender sheetmetal, and are engraved (stamped) with the Triumph logo. The spark plugs are now much easier to get to, and the radiator did not look ungainly to me. The turn signals are compact and look aftermarket. The lights front and rear also hint of Britbikes past.There was no Thruxton on hand, nor any of the new small block Guzzi variants on hand. If the new Bonnies run as good as they look, all will be well. It did not bother me in the least, however, that my dinosaur Bonnies were British made, and the new ones are "ThaiRumphs"
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I rode my 2001 Bonneville to the local Triumph/Guzzi dealer today.
It did not bother me in the least, however, that my dinosaur Bonnies were British made, and the new ones are "ThaiRumphs"
In my eyes, my bud's 2001 Bonnie is quite sharp and looks a lot more appealing to me visually than the new Street Twin.
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"I believe "sound" has a lot to do with it. The 270 exhaust note is far more "exotic" than the 360's plodding blahhhh."
Have you ever heard a Norton Commando with Roadster pipes?
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"I believe "sound" has a lot to do with it. The 270 exhaust note is far more "exotic" than the 360's plodding blahhhh."
Have you ever heard a Norton Commando with Roadster pipes?
Yes, that lumpy cadence and sound. Like a 90 degree VTwin.
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I still haven't seen the new Triumphs in person yet.
But I saw the new Harley Roadster today - LOVE IT!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/de2a01c654979175c96f580a2cf3eef9.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/6f8eca01f0c944c37446ceff87292b7e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/70e65c2a563ca48b7794b3bec8666b5e.jpg)
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I've had 6 V-twins and 2 270 degree crank bikes and never confused the sound of one for the other.
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I still haven't seen the new Triumphs in person yet.
But I saw the new Harley Roadster today - LOVE IT!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/de2a01c654979175c96f580a2cf3eef9.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/6f8eca01f0c944c37446ceff87292b7e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/70e65c2a563ca48b7794b3bec8666b5e.jpg)
HD did a nice job on this one. Kev - MSRP? And HP? It is the stock 1200cc engine, isn't it? What, maybe 60-65hp and a lot of bottom end torque?
Bob
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HD did a nice job on this one. Kev - MSRP? And HP? It is the stock 1200cc engine, isn't it? What, maybe 60-65hp and a lot of bottom end torque?
Bob
MSRP $11.2k but add $~1k more if you want ABS/security-keyless ignition
Stock 1200 motor, makes about 60-65 rwhp/70 ft lbs torque
A set of mild mufflers should get you 70/75, a full stage 1 with remap should be in the 80's for both.
Yeah, I think it's a nice one. Maybe even nicer than the XR/XRX to me.
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Only Harley is able to get away with this crazy pricing.
FYI: Picked up a new Norge 8V for 12k.
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Only Harley is able to get away with this crazy pricing.
FYI: Picked up a new Norge 8V for 12k.
That's a silly comparison. The Norge MSRP is $16.2k.
Let's compare apples with apples.
And even if you can get a deeper discount on one brand, that likely just means it depreciates faster down the road.
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How much extra for a gas tank that fits on the sportster?
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I still haven't seen the new Triumphs in person yet.
But I saw the new Harley Roadster today - LOVE IT!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/de2a01c654979175c96f580a2cf3eef9.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/6f8eca01f0c944c37446ceff87292b7e.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/70e65c2a563ca48b7794b3bec8666b5e.jpg)
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
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Spring time! :kiss:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/Kevin_zps284oymlm.jpg)
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That's a silly comparison. The Norge MSRP is $16.2k.
Let's compare apples with apples.
And even if you can get a deeper discount on one brand, that likely just means it depreciates faster down the road.
Kev, name another apple. Griso maybe?
Naked roadster,elemental V-twin.
Guess there's the added cost of a shaft drive system to offset MSRP.
Horsepower and torque ? Ouch!
Personally, resale value has never factored into my motorcycle purchases (although a nice bonus !)
Different customers I'd reckon, and I thoroughly enjoyed my sporty all those years ago...(all those lbs.ago).
The mighty Griso is a rangey beast to the Sporty's compact muscular stance.
Well, at the end of the day maybe apples to oranges here too. :boozing:
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As much as I'd like to like the Sporty, I just can't. I really like the engines, and after all.. to me a motorcycle is all about the engine.
But.
My feet in front of me and leaning forward like that? Nope. Won't happen. The ergos are just all wrong for me. If you like it.. more power to you. :smiley: Maybe if my feet were sort of behind me? <scratching head>
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As much as I'd like to like the Sporty, I just can't. I really like the engines, and after all.. to me a motorcycle is all about the engine.
But.
My feet in front of me and leaning forward like that? Nope. Won't happen. The ergos are just all wrong for me. If you like it.. more power to you. :smiley: Maybe if my feet were sort of behind me? <scratching head>
(http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/Harley-Davidson/XL1200R_07-170.jpg)
This is as far back as they ever dared put them. Except for...
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/Harley-Davidson-XR1200-Best-Used-Bikes.jpg)
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a little more daylight between MSRP of Sportster and Griso than I realized.
Although mine was 11,400 plus tax/tag/title etc.
Nice suspenders don't come cheap either.
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I do like the look of a 1200R.............. ................... :evil:
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Returning home from a ride last night on the Griso I am again reminded of how splendid a machine Guzzi could have made/could make if they stuck that 8V into a more retro styled package. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
Here they already have an air cooled engine generating more horsepower and torque than any of these new Triumphs. And they already have a record of strong success with the V7 line.
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READERS DIGEST VERSION - read bold
OK, good morning all. In the interest of discussion let me clarify, answer, and muse.
First let me say that I LOVE Guzzi, and I think the Griso is a sublime bike. As a matter of fact I do see a bit of similarity between the Griso experience and the Buell S3T and the late-model Harley XR/XRX. Riding each of those bikes was what actually prompted me to buy the Buell in the first place.
Alright, as I will address later in this post, I do realize there are not insignificant differences in the motors of these two bikes. But looking at the BIG picture (L4's, flat sixes, etc.) these air-cooled twins are more similar than not despite their differences.
THING IS, as much as I can enjoy this type of bike short time, I've repeatedly bought and then sold bikes with this particular riding position (feet under/behind me). As brilliant a motorcycle was my R1100RSa, my Breva 1100, or that Buell S3T, I simply prefer slightly different ergonomics and aesthetics.
That said:
Kev, name another apple. Griso maybe?
Naked roadster,elemental V-twin.
Guess there's the added cost of a shaft drive system to offset MSRP.
Horsepower and torque ? Ouch!
Personally, resale value has never factored into my motorcycle purchases (although a nice bonus !)
Different customers I'd reckon, and I thoroughly enjoyed my sporty all those years ago...(all those lbs.ago).
The mighty Griso is a rangey beast to the Sporty's compact muscular stance.
Well, at the end of the day maybe apples to oranges here too. :boozing:
When I said Apples-to-Apples I was simply addressing the singular issue of comparing MSRP to MSRP. Comparing MSRP to
"what one person negotiated" is like comparing Crankshaft HP to RWHP. They're not the same, and the comparison loses a lot of validity.
Now if we want to expand the conversation to include "value for the money" it gets difficult because VALUE varies with the buyer.
It doesn't matter to me that the Harley is $11.2k (or $12.2k with ABS/Security) and the Griso is $12.9k, because the Griso doesn't add up at the end of the day to be the bike I want.
I like both motors, but I actually think I prefer the Sportster motor to the 8V, it's a difference in how it makes power. I've never enjoyed higher rpm riding on any bike I've owned, except for the occasional WOT run. But that's not where I ride a bike, and the Sporty motors make more than enough when I do.
So what are the other differences?
TO ME:
I prefer the ergonomics of the Sportster (and this new one looks to fit very similar to my current one).
I prefer the maintenance (no valves to check).
I prefer the cast wheels.
I like the looks of both, but give a nod to the Sporty.
I like Shaft Drives and Belts, but since I don't ride any dirt or gravel, I actually think the Belt is less maintenance/cost/hassle over the life of the bike. Slight nod to the Sporty.
Now let me address other points you brought up.
HP/Torque:
Peak hp is not my concern. But IF it is YOUR concern. Then wouldn't my counter argument be that the Griso ($13k) or a Norge ($16.2k) makes no sense. A Ducati 1200 Monster ($13.5k) makes 127 rwhp / 82 ft. lbs. so it is to the Griso 8V what the Griso 8V is to the new Roadster in hp. Why stop there, a Yamaha FZ1 ($10.8k) makes 126 rwhp/ 65 ft. lbs. (and I'm sure Kawasaki or Triumph have contenders in that price range too). But obviously that's not the ultimate measure of a machine to you or me.
Resale value - I'm not sure how much I really think about this with a bike purchase. BUT I AM a bike HO, and I used to buy and sell bikes about every 2 years. On Harleys I don't think I've ever eaten more than about $2k in depreciation, which was nice. Now I've slowed down on that considerably and I'm currently trying to hold onto bikes much longer, so it's not a big deal. But it is nice to know they are MUCH easier to sell than a Guzzi in most cases.
But like you say, maybe they are apples and oranges too --- all based on those particular factors that you care about. I've got my list and I don't fault anyone for theirs.
Truthfully as I see this segment, the CHIEF competitor for the Sportster really remains the Bonneville...which is why I brought all this up in this thread.
a little more daylight between MSRP of Sportster and Griso than I realized.
Although mine was 11,400 plus tax/tag/title etc.
Nice suspenders don't come cheap either.
Ha ha--- I hear ya
As much as I'd like to like the Sporty, I just can't. I really like the engines, and after all.. to me a motorcycle is all about the engine.
But.
My feet in front of me and leaning forward like that? Nope. Won't happen. The ergos are just all wrong for me. If you like it.. more power to you. :smiley: Maybe if my feet were sort of behind me? <scratching head>
It's funny, but like I said earlier, I really like both engines. Roper will lose his mind, but having ridden both, put me squarely in the 1100 2V/cylinder Guzzi camp. I really would prefer that to the 8V. Maybe that's ONE of the reasons I went backwards from an 1100 CARC Big-Block to a 750cc small-block. I dunno. But I like the Sportster engine a lot so there's no problem there.
As for ergos. I was shocked how similar the new Roadster ergos are to my current Sportster. My feet are BARELY in front of me. It's VERY similar to how I sit on my V7... which is more foot rearward than I used to sit on my Jackal.
This is BARELY foot forward, maybe not even enough for longer rides (as my knee/leg cramps up a bit on the V7 on longer stints without stops).
<shrugs>
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To help re-rail this thread, I, too, saw the new Triumph Modern Classics in the flesh the other day. I thought they looked really good. I was able to sit on a silver Thurston R and a black T120. The Thruxton R seems very small but not horribly so. The T120 seems like it would be much more practical and comfortable, especially with a King & Queen seat and a windscreen installed.
As for whether they are "meh," beauty is indeed in the eye of the beer-holder. Personally, while sober, I think they look very good, even better than the outgoing Modern Classics. If I had had a lot of beer to drink, I might have made a deal on the Thruxton R. If I had had only some beer to drink, I might had made a deal on the T120 instead. :boozing:
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Even with "Retro" being less than an objective term, I just don't think the Griso even belongs in this discussion. That's a good or bad thing depending on your slant.
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I remember the first time I saw the new T120 in the flesh. I came in thinking that it would be The Next Bike. However, my first impression was...plastic. So much plastic.
Long story short, I ended up buying an R NineT a few months later. Much more expensive, but more power and better-looking IMO.
I think someone mentioned The Only Harley I Would Consider Owning (if it had ABS).
(http://www.motorshow.me/GalleryPics/170000/B171721.jpg)
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Kev, well thought out response.
Would have expected nothing less from you!
I have found in my advancing age and weight that a peg position further back
(within reason) allows me to put less pressure on the buttocks.
Interesting how these pressure points can effect one person so much differently than another..
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Kev, well thought out response.
Would have expected nothing less from you!
I have found in my advancing age and weight that a peg position further back
(within reason) allows me to put less pressure on the buttocks.
Interesting how these pressure points can effect one person so much differently than another..
Yeah it is funny.
I do better with a good seat and letting my butt take the weight, but I have to be careful with my legs.
I don't know if the phenomenon is related to age or my current state of training/working out, but over the last few years I've developed much less of a tolerance for sitting with my knees bent. The MORE bent, the less comfortable. Mostly one side (left), the knee cramps up and develops some muscle pain from the knee back upward toward my butt. Seems to be more pronounced if I've been running more in any given week or month than training in the martial arts. So I SUSPECT it's related to running, but I'm not positive.
I need to speak with a doctor or physical therapist and get some ideas to address it.
But the easy answer for motorcycles is to sit with my feet somewhat in front of me and better yet have multiple foot positions available (highway pegs, floorboards etc.) or in absence of multiple foot positions I simply need to stop and take more breaks.
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I remember the first time I saw the new T120 in the flesh. I came in thinking that it would be The Next Bike. However, my first impression was...plastic. So much plastic.
Long story short, I ended up buying an R NineT a few months later. Much more expensive, but more power and better-looking IMO.
I think someone mentioned The Only Harley I Would Consider Owning (if it had ABS).
(http://www.motorshow.me/GalleryPics/170000/B171721.jpg)
that one would be my first choice for a Sportster, maybe just a test ride :rolleyes:
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Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just add to this one.
But if I DID start a thread, it would be called:
Saw the new Triumphs today. NOT MEH
But when I strolled into my local dealer I expected to be knocked off my feet. The photos are stunning. Online the attention to details and such seems outlandishly awesome. And I generally love Triumphs. But there they were right in front of me, a Thruxton R, a Street Twin, and a new T120 and I'll be darned if I didn't feel a little let down by the whole package of each one. <snip> Something about the tank shape on the R in person that bothered me and didn't come off nearly as well to my eyes in person as in pics
I have to say I felt completely opposite of you.
There they were in front of me a Thruxton R, A T120, and a Street Twin.
I stood up the Thruxton and the Twin.
WOW, I gotta say WOW. They both fit, all looked gorgeous and the attention to detail was FANTASTIC. Very clean well made parts, not a busy design. VERY VERY high quality look and feel.
The water-cooling is hidden very well and the radiator all but disappeared to my eye. It certainly didn't disrupt the lines on the machines.
Hell, I'm surprised how much I liked the Street Twin.
Funny though, it never occurred to me that the Thruxton might use a cable clutch, I found that kinda funny sitting there with those huge Brembos and that expensive suspension. I don't mind, but I laughed.
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"I believe "sound" has a lot to do with it. The 270 exhaust note is far more "exotic" than the 360's plodding blahhhh."
Have you ever heard a Norton Commando with Roadster pipes?
:1: No doubt Triumph isn't trying to sell to those that remember yesteryear Triumphs, rather new buyers that compare current models to each other. They could probably care less about 360 cranks, they hear the 270, like it, like the looks and buy it.
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Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just add to this one.
But if I DID start a thread, it would be called:
Saw the new Triumphs today. NOT MEH
I have to say I felt completely opposite of you.
There they were in front of me a Thruxton R, A T120, and a Street Twin.
I stood up the Thruxton and the Twin.
WOW, I gotta say WOW. They both fit, all looked gorgeous and the attention to detail was FANTASTIC. Very clean well made parts, not a busy design. VERY VERY high quality look and feel.
The water-cooling is hidden very well and the radiator all but disappeared to my eye. It certainly didn't disrupt the lines on the machines.
Hell, I'm surprised how much I liked the Street Twin.
Funny though, it never occurred to me that the Thruxton might use a cable clutch, I found that kinda funny sitting there with those huge Brembos and that expensive suspension. I don't mind, but I laughed.
DITTO 100%
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Comments regarding a 270 vs 360 crank in this thread and why, oh why? Here are the comments from Stuart Wood, Triumph's Chief Engineer on the Bonnevilles (BTW, PH2 is PistonHeads.com, whoever they are...):
PH2: Why change the engine's firing order from a 360-degree crank to a 270-degree one?
SW: "Smoothness and refinement. Do you want a vibrating British single character in a modern machine? I don't. I want it to sound great, which the 270 does, but the main reason is down to the capacity increase. You can get away with a 360 crank on a smaller engine, but the bigger the capacity gets, the less balance you get within the engine. The 270 crank is better balanced and has natural second order vibration cancelling, making it a really smooth motor. When you add bigger pistons you need this smoothness."
Here is the complete interview of Stuart Wood by PH2: http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-ph2/stuart-wood-ph2-meets/33164
BTW, loving the T120 and the "older" variations of the "new Bonnevilles". But different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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If it wasn't for the ~100 pound weight savings on my V7 I would have purchased a Triumph. :thumb:
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Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just add to this one.
But if I DID start a thread, it would be called:
Saw the new Triumphs today. NOT MEH
I have to say I felt completely opposite of you.
Well good on ya, then :boozing:
I saw them the other day again when I was in the dealer for a different reason.
Still meh.
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I liked everything I saw.
For ME, I'd probably chose the T120 (though I didn't care for this color), but the size, shape, power, weight, included accessories (heated grips and centerstand) all add up to something I'd dig. I'd take the T120 Black for less chrome, but still it's a good looking bike.
(http://preview.ibb.co/gT56gF/IMG_20160519_141139201_HDRa.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b41e1F)
The ThruxtonR is a thing of beauty with lots of attention to details in parts from the kickstand to the swingarm, from the steering neck to the engine cases. I was very happy with how it fit ergonomically too:
(http://preview.ibb.co/cbeova/IMG_20160519_140848239a.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dPfHov)
But the big surprise for me was how much I liked the Street Twin. The cast wheels are much nicer in person than in pics, and the overall bike shared the build quality I noticed in the T120 and Thruxton. It even fit very nicely, despite it's diminutive seat height. I texted Jenn and photo and it has caught her eye. Maybe a "bagged Scrambler" has a competitor for when it comes time to buy her a dedicated "tour" bike. Time will tell, but I'd happily add one to the fleet.
(http://preview.ibb.co/jMvTva/IMG_20160519_135700628_HDRa.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i4mq8v)