Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rodekyll on April 27, 2016, 07:11:13 PM
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I'm investigating different options for improving the steering on the trike. I've raised the forks about as far as they'll go (had to add spacers to the handlebar risers to clear the fork tube ends), and I'm still rassling it through high speed twisties. I understand these earle's fork and other leading link sidehack front ends help with the steering effort. Also, traditional trees with modified offsets seem to be out there. I'm ignorant abut the comparative advantages and suitability of the different designs. All I know is that I'd like a range of adjustability to it. Anyone want to help me understand the fancy front ends? Anyone have a setup suitable for a new-type tonti steering neck for sale?
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I ordered a Ural leading link off eBay for $450 incl freight out of russia. I'm pretty sure I can adapt it to my 'vert hack. The modified triple tree helps a bit but not worth the investment in my opinion.
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modified triple clamps were done by the Steerite company (in Canada?) I think they went out of business..
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I bought a Unit Leading Link Fork several years ago, got it from a fellow that took the assembly off his Stone so the cost was exactly half of new. Fits right into the stock EV trees...
Works for me.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img600/156/copyofthehackisback010s.jpg)
Picking up the Christmas tree with the Grandsons...
(http://imageshack.com/a/img4/8730/aroundthechristmastree0.jpg)
A Saturday rip to the lumer yard...
(http://imageshack.com/a/img152/299/hack017medium.jpg)
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modified triple clamps were done by the Steerite company (in Canada?) I think they went out of business..
I had a set modified by them--they work very well.
Rich
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I have the Unit fork on my R100 / Watsonian rig. It is like having power steering
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Use one with a steering damper.
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I had the first Unit fork to be put on a Jackal on the Jack-All hack tractor.
It is like having power steering
Yep.
I ordered a Ural leading link off eBay for $450 incl freight out of russia. I'm pretty sure I can adapt it to my 'vert hack. The modified triple tree helps a bit but not worth the investment in my opinion.
That sounds like it would be right down your alley..
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A couple of questions and an observation or two . Has anyone ever tried an Earles fork on a trike ? My understanding is the main two advantages of the Earles are greatly reduced trail and the fact that a leading link fork tends to rise under braking . Just curious , the dynamics of a trike and a sidecar rig would seem to be different , the trike concentrates more weight over the rear , while a hack distributes weight more evenly , correct ? Not sure if this is even possible in this application , but an investigation into the way HD sets up their forks and triple trees on the FLH series might be worthwhile . Just food for thought , I'll be quiet now .
Dusty
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There are tremendous side forces on the front end. Leading link/ Earles provides necessary rigidity.
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Buy the one from the previous post about the sidecar/Cal II for sale. For <the price of a new front end, you also get Guzzi spares.....As handy as you are, if the stock setting don't suit you, you could make a bottom swingarm with the adjustments you need. http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=83115.0
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All constructive comments are welcome, Dusty.
I thought about the Cal II hack, but the paperwork stops me. I'd have to find some way of parting it out on-the-spot.
So far it appears the Unit unit is favored. I see that Dauntless (DMC) in WA has some custom front ends and trees for their hack and trike conversions. Has anyone used their products?
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I have never bought anything from Dauntless but my wife and I owned seven sidecar rigs over a period of 30 years and five of our rigs had leading link front ends; they were GREAT. But, I've never seen a leading link fitted to a trike BUT have seen modified triple trees on a lot of them. Around ten years ago, Dauntless was loved by some and despised by others due to mounts that they had purchased, not fitting correctly, etc. From what I've read, Dauntless cleaned up their act and I haven't heard or read anything negative about them in years. They've been around long enough and have sold enough sidecars, frames, rigs, front ends, etc. so they're probably your best best for reliable information re. whether to use a modified triple tree or a leading link on a trike.
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Good informaion, Jackson, thanks!
I visited DMC a few years back after the WA breakfast. I thought the people were nice, and it looked like a busy shop. I am considering another visit this summer for some tech advise.
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I ordered a Ural leading link off eBay for $450 incl freight out of russia. I'm pretty sure I can adapt it to my 'vert hack. The modified triple tree helps a bit but not worth the investment in my opinion.
I can find ural leading link parts here and there -- I see a pair of forks in Canada. Can you tell me what the fork tube diameter is on those, and does it look like you can get a pair of calipers mounted to them?
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I have not recieved the fork assy yet. Rough dimensions taken from a Ural were enough to convince me it could be done. The one I bought included the triple tree assy. Ural uses Brembo calipers. The seller was good enough to remove the drum brake set up and replace with the single disc brake setup. I will add an add'l. Caliper as I believe it to be needed. My plan was to use the guzzi wheel, disc, and calipers adapted to the Ural fork. And probably use the Ural triple tree and Bush to fit the guzzi yoke. I'm away from the shop for a while. I'll be back in mid May and will start on the adaptation then. I'll have a LOT more answers for you by mid june...... hope this helps, dave.
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RK, if you use the key words: leading link fork ural. You should find it on ebay. The seller is iural75
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There's a ural in town with the brembo brakes on the front end, but I haven't seen him this year yet. When I do I'll make him come by for a fitting.
But please humor my dimension questions when you get back. I'll have my rig in America in June and hope to splice on whatever I end up with on-the-spot. So it would be handy to know if the ural upper tubes would slip into my trees or if I'll have a nightmare of adaptions to make.
I found the ural postings on ebay. I sent him an email. All I see is the disk brake version in his inventory. Looking at the parts lists I'm not sure how it becomes adapted to disks.
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I'll be happy to get you the dimensions. Feel free to pester me if I forget. I know the tube diameter is very close, the problem is with the spacing.
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But your 'vert has umm . . . 35mm forks @110mm (iirc from a recent topic here), and I believe the EV has 43 or 45mm forks with wider spacing.
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Dauntless (DMC) has severed ties with the machinist who was making the offset triple trees for Guzzis. Ownership has made no effort to source elsewhere...
Looking to DMC is a dead end.
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Unit Forks are expensive and worth it.
Sidestrider (Doug Bingham) in Los Angeles was a dealer for Unit. Don't know if he still is- or even if he is still in business.
sidestrider.com
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Bob Nolan built some leading link forks, but I was not interested in them back then. Now I am contemplating doing it, sure miss Bob. Does any body have engineering drawings? That would solve the hard part.
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Bob was a one-of-a-kind. I didn't know he made leading links though -- or maybe, like you, I just don't remember because I had no interest at the time. I can find out if there are any left -- I still have a line on Marian. I'll send an email.
I found drawings doing google searches. Unfortunately, the text for the callouts wasn't in the collections, so while I have pictures, there's no 'splainin.
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Unit Forks are expensive and worth it.
Sidestrider (Doug Bingham) in Los Angeles was a dealer for Unit. Don't know if he still is- or even if he is still in business.
sidestrider.com
Doug Bingham died a few months ago. RIP :lipsrsealed:
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I had the guy in Canada fix a tree a few years ago, so I call his stopped as you know. But he told me to check with Custom tripletree.com. He want my tree(Jackal 2000) as a tinplet. And $1000 plus. Wasp in leading link in England want with import duty and the shocks (got to shipped by them selfs) $2400 US. The guy Au. Wants $3500 plus freight and duties.So the Ural sounds good.Rudyr
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Didn't have all facts last nite. SteerRite son told me to check with the people in Il. The wasp leading link sent a hand drawn picture what measurement on a Triumph bonneville(didn't know what they would be a Triumph ,England ah.) The guy from Au(down under) he got right back to and didn't need anything but money, to send it right up. A friend of mine has a Ural going take a few measurement and look on EBay.Rudy
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I appreciate your effort, rudyr. :smiley: For measuring purposes, mine is also a Jackal. If a ural can be made to fit yours, it will work on mine.
I've got some feelers out for possible used ones, and I'm calling around the trike/sidecar shops (they're mostly not open over the weekends) to see what they might advise. The drum brake set on ebay was coming out of Russia and was wrecked/rebuilt. It seemed like more of a risk than I wanted to take. Also, the seller did not tell me what the fork tube diameter or spacing is, and he has sold it. So I don't have any measurements.
I'm kinda surprised that none of the sidecar guys on WG have an extra one in their stash. I've got an ad in the classified too, and there has been no comment on it at all. I'll drive to where it is, assuming the seller will let me swap it out on-the-spot.
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You know I have run a raked tree for years and I have no issue with them, except head shake( must keep one hand on bars all the time). I told the guy in Il. I could get a tree for a Harly for $650 and he's got them for that. But hadn't made one for a Guzzi or Triumph. I've got two Jackal's and have the tree pulled off one now. Just haven't sent it yet $1000 plus just upsets me.Rudyr
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The Ural guy on eBay was good enough to swap the drum brake for a dust brake set up for me. I just need to replicate it for the second disc.
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The head shake -- especially when crossing the sidewalk into the street at an angle or waddling through badly potholed surfaces at walking speeds -- can be bad enough to make the throttle twist. Although I do have to keep one hand on the bar or it shakes, the steering damper has taken most of that away when the rig gets up to about 25mph. The hand on the bar is just to settle it down -- it doesn't fight over who's steering.
The other issue for me is the amount of force it takes to follow the twisties. I can push through most at the speed limit or indicated speed for the curve, but it takes full body English on the bars to convince it. "Good" steering has been described to me as "power steering". Mine definitely does NOT meet that definition.
Ideally the forks I get should have adjustable geometry to tune that steering effort.
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Just got off the phone with Dauntless (DMC) in WA. They have nothing for the guzzi. The triple tree product they used to carry is NLA from the mfgr and they have no new source. The leading link forks they have on the website was a 1-off custom for a customer and they did not develop any tooling as they went along. So while they could possibly do another 1-off ($3200-ish + 6-week lead time + my rig in their shop for the duration), they weren't real enthusiastic about it. Jay, the owner, said UNIT in the UK did the concept so well that most other customizers didn't try to compete -- they let UNIT have the technology and looked for other products to make their mark with.
Jay also told me that the leading link has been overtaken by the modified tree sets since for tube diameters have gotten larger. He suggests that I could do "95%" of what a leading link does at half the cost.
So DMC isn't a player. The search continues.
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Wonder what the triple tree and steering stem dimensions for the HD FLH are . David , you are running the 45 MM forks , correct ? Anyone know what the HD stanchions measure at ?
Dusty
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Yes, Dusty -- 45mm fork tubes. The HD ones I see seem to be 41mm or 49mm. These folks go way out of their way to have non-standard stuff.
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If you go to the wasp site and look at all the different pictures, look at Harley. The down legged or bent out. That tells me he uses thr same tree just the stem dia. And length. One size fits all just bind the down ledges to fit the brake as well as the front swing arm. Just my way of thinking.Rudyr
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/jYP75a/EML_Guzzi_M.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jYP75a)
I had an EML rig with the leading link. The best (not the cheapest) way to go.
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BillinPA had a Cal II for sale with sidecar. A while ago. He mentioned having an EZ steer triple tree for it. Maybe he still has it? I'm pretty sure he sold the sidecar....Worth a shout out...
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Thanks. I sent Bill a PM.
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I pmed you back Rk I sold the trees to a fellow last year. They were the 35mm. I have modified trees on my superglide rig for all the reasons you list. I couldn't be happier with them. I got mine from hawg halters who likely cannot help with the Guzzi........but it never hurts to ask.