Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: shelbygt on April 27, 2016, 08:37:20 PM
-
Have a Eldorado former police bike bought. Frame stamped VP 11xxx. Titled as 74, bit no disk brake front. Is engine supposed to match frame? My73 Eldorado civilian has a later Vin. Is something different about police bikes?
-
Are you sure its VP11xxx? Is is a US bike? Maybe an 850GT?
-
That's what's stamped in frame. Title matches frame. Was told formerly Detroit police?
-
Have any pictures?
-
I do but need to figure out how to post.
-
Right here you can add a picture.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gkk3dv/ex.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gkk3dv)
-
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cWEwyv/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cWEwyv)
-
I do but need to figure out how to post.
right below the type field in reply "add image to post" click it and drag your pic from your desk top.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jaeUJv/IMG_1746.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jaeUJv)
-
Ah, its not a frame tag number. What is the engine number?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gkzPka/vin_frame_eldorado_4.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gkzPka)
-
As far as I know, late 60s and early 70s Guzzis were titled using the frame numbers, they were stamped into the steering head tube and the engine numbers didn't match. The numbers all tended to begin with a 10xxx or 11xxxx At some point in 71 or 72, the powers that be decided to add a frame tag for bikes coming to the USA and it was also decided to use the engine number as the official VIN and the numbers on the tag matched. I can see by your photo that the rivets that held the frame tag are still in the head stock. This bike may have been retitled, back when that was easier, because of a missing title. Does the title match the frame or the motor?
-
As far as I know, late 60s and early 70s Guzzis were titled using the frame numbers, they were stamped into the steering head tube and the engine numbers didn't match. The numbers all tended to begin with a 10xxx or 11xxxx At some point in 71 or 72, the powers that be decided to add a frame tag for bikes coming to the USA and it was also decided to use the engine number as the official VIN and the numbers on the tag matched. I can see by your photo that the rivets that held the frame tag are still in the head stock. This bike may have been retitled, back when that was easier, because of a missing title. Does the title match the frame or the motor?
My '69 Ambo has a frame tag, so it was earlier than '71 or '72.
-
Frame matches title. Engine starts with 60XXX. So are we thinking this is a 70 or 71 frame that somehow over the course of 40 plus years was retitled as a 74? Engine seems later model?
-
Engine number puts it as a mid '73 build and possibly titled as a '74. That's if the engine is original to the frame.
-
But the frame number would allude to it being built earlier, maybe 70 or 71?
-
Its a Guzzi don't get caught up in the numbers. The frame could have been build in 1968 and not used until 1974.
-
Does it have a 4LS front drum brake? My first Eldo was a mid year '73 that had one.
-
It's possible that the frame has been changed. Loop police frames have a few differences that can distinguish them from civilian. Like all things Guzzi, this is not true in all cases. The most obvious is the siren mount tab on the left passenger peg loop however, by 74 however, these were gone due to the use of an electric siren. The frame gusset just above the tool box should be reinforced with an extra steel plate, it should also be drilled for rear crash bars. And, there shouldn't be a side stand tab welded to the left lower frame rail.
-
Yeah I'm not gonna get worked up about numbers matching, curious more than anything. I have this thing rigged for fun. I'll get it home and get more details. The frame stamps seem to verify that it was police and it has police goodies. After all these years who knows? It received a custom paint job along the way.
-
Is this the bike out of Peoria IL?
-
While it would be kind of rare in the US those numbers seem to point towards an 850GT.
-
IIRC, Guzzi also made an 850 California in '73 and or '74.
-
Is this the bike out of Peoria IL?
Yes it is. Does that help?
-
If it is any help, my '72 ex police Eldo engine and frame numbers are identical as shown on the manufactures tag. The engine number is bracketed by * but preceded by VP as stamped on the engine block.
-
Yes it is. Does that help?
I looked at that bike about a little over a year ago when it was for sale in Chicago. Then I contacted the seller that you bought it from. I have a picture he sent me of the "60s" painted gas tank and it has a flip up cap. That tank indicates that it's a 74, 850GT. It jives with the police dash and running boards. The bike should have had chrome fenders.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nJ9krF/850gt_tank.png) (http://ibb.co/nJ9krF)
-
I think 99% of Loops that are f/s are billed as "police" models and the sly sellers also thrown in a comment or two about Cycle Garden.
-
Mark showed me one time that a police frame will have a stamped stiffener on the rear fender mount.
-
Guy seems like a straight shooter. Probably repeating what he was told when he bought it. I'm okay with an 850 GT, too. Like I said, I have this whole thing rigged for fun. I wouldn't get worked up either way.
-
Another tell for a police model is the location of the ignition key. The true police models I've seen have it on the left side, below the seat. Civi models are generally in the speedo bezel or dash pod, depending on if it has a tach or not. Does it have the solo seat/radio box and pursuit lights?
-
Does it have the solo seat/radio box and pursuit lights?
Those are kinda valuable.. :smiley:
-
Mine does...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iNXDBF/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iNXDBF)
-
Cam, that's sweet!!!
Tom
-
Cam, that's sweet!!!
Tom
Thanks Tom. My 3rd loop in 20 years. This one is special, '71 Ambo. Older restoration by BJ Swartz.
-
Found this info on the This Old Tractor website... This confirms what you guys have been saying. Looks like what we have is an 850GT California. I'm cool with this. I already have an Eldorado. Looks like fenders should be chrome. Wonder if they're the same as the Eldorado; only in chrome?
Matching numbers: 850 GT models (not imported to the USA) do not have matching frame and engine numbers. Eldorado and 850 California Police motorcycles (imported to the USA) have matching frame numbers and engine numbers.
Frame and Engine Numbers
From Ralf Brinkmann:
The leading two letters of the serial number on frame and engine block reflect the Guzzi model:
VS 00AA to VS 99SS: V7 700
VM 00AA to VM 25EP: V7 Special
VP 00AA to VP 58WH: 850 GT
VP 11111 to VP 16230: 850 GT California
-
Cam3512:
Where did you get your rear crash bar?
I've had trouble finding one that truly fits.
I see your unique upper attachment is the same as mine.
-
Cam3512:
Where did you get your rear crash bar?
I've had trouble finding one that truly fits.
I see your unique upper attachment is the same as mine.
MG Cycle sells them.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d1FuJv/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d1FuJv)
-
Well, cam, there's a difference from the mg cycle one vs. mine. I know because I tried. I was confirmed by mg cycle that the rear crash bar they have differs in the upper attachment. We compared photos from nonpolice vs. Police.
-
Well, cam, there's a difference from the mg cycle one vs. mine. I know because I tried. I was confirmed by mg cycle that the rear crash bar they have differs in the upper attachment. We compared photos from nonpolice vs. Police.
The difference in the above photo appears to be the BOTTOM mounting point. Top is a bolt that goes into the reinforced gusset on the police bike frame. Civilian loops don't have rear crash bars.
-
This how the MG Cycle rear crashbars mount:
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/mg152b_02.jpg)
Not the same as original police rear crashbars. The one MG Cycle sells are often referred to as "European" crashbars.
-
As usual you are correct Charlie. I didn't notice the "bend" in that photo. I thought I found the straight police bars. Do they not repro them anymore?
-
As usual you are correct Charlie. I didn't notice the "bend" in that photo. I thought I found the straight police bars. Do they not repro them anymore?
I haven't looked for police crashbars, so don't know for sure that they're not available, but a quick check online is coming up empty. At one time MG had both types available, but I think their source was Stucchi. Since Stucchi reorganized into LGC Srl, it seems they've been concentrating more on accessories for later model bikes. Maybe eventually they'll do more police rear crashbars.
-
Yep, the authentic police rear crash bars are not currently available from anywhere (other than possibly on ebay and such luck). I have taken my time to look for them. The MG Cycle looked first promising, but luckily Rick and I did enough home work at the time of my ordering, and found out about the difference.
MG Cycle attempted to source "the vertical type Police rear crash bars" around that time, but ended up getting the "curved 850GT style" instead. They had seen (apparently) only one place to make the authentic police style, but until they make more, the only thing to do is to keep looking. Used on Ebay or such. That's why my asking. I thought there's more to it.
Anyhow, MG Cycle deleted the rear crash bars from my order at the 11th moment. Thanks for reinforcing my own conclusions w/ MG Cycle. Kinda cool to have an authentic police bike but at times some simple things get complicated . . .
-
Almose 20 years ago I needed a pair of rear crash bars for my first police Eldo. I walked into a small Guzzi shop in NJ (long gone), and he had an NOS pair hanging on the wall. Still wrapped in paper.
Have you called MG Classics or Harpers?
-
Mine does...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iNXDBF/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iNXDBF)
That is a beautiful Police bike Cam!
Jim