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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sib on May 01, 2016, 01:00:17 PM
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NO, this isn't another tire thread. My V7II Stone has 8000 miles on it and it needs new tires. I already know I'm putting on Pirelli Sport Demons, I've already bought them, so there's no need to talk about that. I'm looking for advice about the best way to remove the wheels, pry off the tires and mount the new ones. Is there a trick to getting the wheels off? Do I need (or is it easier) to pull off the bevel drive? What brands of tire irons (spoons?) are good? Do I need special stuff to insure a good rim seal? Do I need to balance the tires? Any other advice out there? I should say that I'm pretty handy with tools but I have no recent experience with motorcycle tires. Many thanks in advance for all advice, hints, and warnings. Sam
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I prefer Metz , er , never mind :rolleyes: There are several really good tutorials on youtube .
Dusty
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I prefer Metz , er , never mind :rolleyes: There are several really good tutorials on youtube .
Dusty
Oh, come on, Dusty, surely you could be more helpful :grin: I already know how to find things on the web. I'm looking for special insights from this distinguished collection of guzzisti. With all the opinions usually flung around here, I'm certain that you all have opinions about how to properly change a tire.
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Hi Sib, great that you want to delve into the black art of tire mounting and balancing!! :evil: Seriously, if this is a one time thing you'll be better off removing the wheels and taking them to a local bike shop for mounting and by all means balancing them. Removal and reinstallation is pretty straight forward if you have a lift or some means to suspend the bike to do both wheels at once otherwise it's two trips to the shop. If you really want to learn this procedeure as Dusty said ,you tube is your friend. As far as tools, Ebay can supply you with a good set of irons for cheap. Buy the longest you can, 18" ones make it a breeze.
A good C Clamp will help you break the beads and by all means do it on a sunny day to help the tires be more pliable. Liquid soap mixed with water is a great tire lube,use plenty! As far as balancing, there are several inexpensive static balancers out there and they will do a good job. Google and You Tube are great tools for learning this whole process. It's really just a series of steps that as You say, If your handy with tools you can do this.
Keep us Posted :popcorn: :boozing:
Paul
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Pull off the bevel drive?
I'm pretty sure you don't have to do that on the V7II to get the wheel off.
The V7II Stone are tubeless right?
I'd let a garage to do it, myself. If you have a car, ring around for the cost of a tyre change on a loose wheel, it should be dirt cheap.
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Oh, come on, Dusty, you could try to be more helpful :grin: I already know how to find things on the web. I'm looking for special insights from this distinguished collection of guzzisti. With all the opinions usually flung around here, surely someone has opinions about how to properly change a tire.
OK then , here goes . First , get out the swear jar , because , well , just because .
Seriously , tubeless tires are a breeze . Take the bike for a ride long enough to warm up the old tires. I like to start with the rear . If you don't have a bead breaker , a large c clamp will suffice . Peal off one side , the other side will be fairly easy . When installing the new tire , warm it up in the Sun until good and soft , lube it up with something , start it on , use small bites , the first side will be easy . Start the other side , compress the tire into the drop center , work around in small bites . Replace rear wheel , go for another ride to warm up the front , and repeat . Shouldn't take more than a week, how much vacation do you have ? :grin:
Dusty
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Thanks for all the advice so far. I am considering having my dealer do the job, but they're backed up until late May and I want to RIDE this month. That's the main reason why I want to do it myself, although a second reason is to bolster my self-confidence and sense of independence (if I'm successful).
Glad to know I don't have to remove the bevel box, and thanks for the tips on long spoons, a C-clamp, and liquid soap. I suppose an alternative to soap would be KY Jelly. As I approach the middle of my eighth decade, I seem to have fewer other uses for the stuff :laugh:
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What I use are two of these. The little lip helps to keep from slipping and scaring up the rims. And they are long enough to have good leverage. The bend comes in handy also at times.
http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0007-Curved-Tire/dp/B000GZJ38O
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It really isn't hard to do Sib . Are you fairly patient ?
A couple of points , and don't ask why I bring these up . First , double and triple check the direction of rotation , and the check it again .
Balancing can be done by propping the axle on a couple of saw horses , or chairs , whatever is handy . I have learned to simply note the position of the valve stem after repeatedly spinning the wheel .
Did I mention checking the direction of rotation and location of the little red dot ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
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It really isn't hard to do Sib . Are you fairly patient ?
A couple of points , and don't ask why I bring these up . First , double and triple check the direction of rotation , and the check it again . Second , make sure the little red dot on the tire is opposite the valve stem , 180 degrees away .
Balancing can be done by propping the axle on a couple of saw horses , or chairs , whatever is handy . I have learned to simply note the position of the valve stem after repeatedly spinning the wheel .
Did I mention checking the direction of rotation and location of the little red dot ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
Yes, even dealers have had the rotation wrong for me several times, easily done!
If you're taking the loose wheel to the dealer, I'd suggest putting a strip of masking tape on the rim with the rotation arrow done with a marker.
Re Your dealer quoting you end of May to install the tyres you bought elsewhere, ring around !
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most dealers and shops don't really care what brand wheels they are if brought in loose and just have to R & R tires. check around to some other shops. heck even Cycle gear does them.
Doing them yourself for the very first time by yourself not recommended. Changing tires might seem to be pretty simple but you can screw up rims and tires with tire irons if you don't know what your doing.
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Tire change... stopped that years ago. My MC tire shop has free install with tire purchase, that if you bring him the wheel, not the bike. Tire prices are about equal with install as online tires and paying install.
BTW: I was told the dot line up with the valve stem?
Tom
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The Motion Pro catalog is a great place to start...great tire tools. Also, resist the temptation to use too long a tire lever. An indiscreet pull of your lever can screw up the runout on your rim. Me and Kevin Cameron prefer 8" or 9" levers. Tire lube and a way to hold your wheel stationary make things easier. A static balancer like this:
http://www.amazon.com/BikeMaster-Wheel-Balancer-800-256/dp/B0068FUWGI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1462143807&sr=8-8&keywords=static+wheel+balancer
works great with self-adhesive wheel weights. Be certain that you clean the balancer weight location on the rim with alcohol so you don't throw a weight. You'll need a source of high-ish pressure air to get your tire to seal and seat (hand pumps just don't work with tubeless wheels). Take your time and be careful...
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As stated there are lots of video's on youtube. Watch them. Take note about the drop center and where the tire needs to be positioned in it while your installing the tire. One word of advise I'll give you is if you are forcing the tire onto the rim you are doing something wrong.
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I'd say one thing to be cautious of is not over torquing the pinch bolts on the front axle. I haven't heard of V7's having issues but some early Stelvio's had their fork castings broken when the pinch bolts were over torqued. I have found removing the bevel box to be easier upon reassembly than trying to do it with the box attached and many like to check the drive shaft and splines to make sure they have sufficient grease applied which isn't always the case from the factory.
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I plan on changing a lot of tires, so I invested in some tools as follows (some of which have already been mentioned):
- Harbor Freight Motorcycle Tire Changer - MUST be modified with Mojo Blocks.
- Mojo Blocks and Mojo Lever
- Marc Parnes wheel balancer (I rest it on two sawhorses)
- Wheel weights
- Motion Pro rim protectors
- Ru-Glide, rubber lubricant
While the HF changer is working for me, I would probably buy a No-Mar changer if I had to do it over again, but they cost more. I'd really prefer one that goes on a truck hitch, rather than a free-standing unit.
I did it the first time solo after watching a few YouTube videos. It took me a long time and I ran out of swear words, but I'm pretty fast now. I can easily change a tire in the evening, at my convenience, when shops are not open - and I can do it faster than I can drive to a shop with my wheels, wait for them to install, and drive home.
Also consider:
Maybe put in some new valve stems. I like the angled ones that make it easy to check pressure and add air.
You can change your own wheel bearings too. I like the Pit Posse wheel bearing removal tool.
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I regularly change tires, with nothing more than a few screwdrivers, crowbars, and a bead breaker wedge. The spoons, fancy bead breakers, do make it easier though. Motorcycle tires, etc. are a piece of cake. I do like the plastic wheel savers though if I care about the wheel (they're powder coated on my V11 sport). Have done all the way from ATV/ motorcycle tires, up to 11.00-20 semi tires, all the way to 38" tractor tires by hand. Just got done breaking down and changing tires out on a military semi tractor. Don't know why people pay to go to a gym. You really work up a sweat working with the bigger ones.
And yeah the advice about really paying attention to rotation is sound. Nothing sucks more than airing up a tire, and stepping back to admire your work only to realize you're going to have to redo it.
TDF
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Among other things, Scud says:
While the HF changer is working for me, I would probably buy a No-Mar changer if I had to do it over again, but they cost more. I'd really prefer one that goes on a truck hitch, rather than a free-standing unit.
Most excellent information in your post. Just FYI, I prefer the changer to be bolted down. I have studs in the floor so it is removable. Todd at Guzzitech has a No-Mar (I think) hooked to a truck hitch, and it's not terribly stable. I prefer bolted down and have the ability to walk around it.
To the OP.. That said, be prepared for some frustration. Trust me. I've changed several tires using the above method, and the Kid used to work in a motorcycle shop when he was really a kid. He's changed some tires.
We put new tires on the Monza yesterday, and it was a 3 hour affair. (!) The front tire bead would *not* seat. We slathered it with Ru-Glide..nope. warmed it up, nada.. kept running up the shop air pressure until I finally said no more at 95 psi. :shocked: Put the valve core back in and pumped it up to 50 psi and bounced it on the floor repeatedly. Nothing. More Ru-Glide. Tried it at 95 a few more times. Finally, I went to the tractor garage to get the biggest tie down straps I own to wrap around it (with fear and trepidation). When I came back to the shop with them, the Kid said, it just seated. WHEW!! I've never seen anything like it, nor had he.
On that particular tire, I would have gleefully paid the $42 the local shop wants.. :smiley:
It's not always a walk in the park.
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One trick I learned was warm tires go on easier. Put the new ones in a black garbage bag out in the sun while your pulling the wheel. One of the many sites with info: http://www.clarity.net/~adam/tire-changing.html
I liked it because it mentions some homemade tools, save some money, (Guzzi content).
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Just FYI, I prefer the changer to be bolted down. I have studs in the floor so it is removable. Todd at Guzzitech has a No-Mar (I think) hooked to a truck hitch, and it's not terribly stable. I prefer bolted down and have the ability to walk around it.
I bolted my HF changer to a pallet. Can't drill into my post-tension slab in the garage or seriously bad things happen. I'll have to visit Todd - good excuse to ride the Santa Monica Mountains again.
+1 on warm tires. Set those lizards out in the sun if you can - especially the rears. However, the Mojo Lever provides a LOT of leverage and is very effective (even on cold tires), once you figure it out.
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Water soluble lube is best. No oil based grease or WD40. You're first time would be best with a mentor helping or monitoring you.
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I removed the tires on my bike, and it was a lot more difficult than I was expecting. I scarred up my rims, so I definitely will use the plastic protectors next time or even better, I'll take them in somewhere. After I painted the wheels, then I had the new tires mounted back on at a car tire shop.
As far as balancing goes, I used Ride-On and that stuff is great. Rides as smooth as silk at any speed, plus you get some protection against flats. I highly recommend taking a look at that stuff. Amazon.
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NO, this isn't another tire thread. My V7II Stone has 8000 miles on it and it needs new tires. I already know I'm putting on Pirelli Sport Demons, I've already bought them, so there's no need to talk about that. I'm looking for advice about the best way to remove the wheels, pry off the tires and mount the new ones. Is there a trick to getting the wheels off? Do I need (or is it easier) to pull off the bevel drive? What brands of tire irons (spoons?) are good? Do I need special stuff to insure a good rim seal? Do I need to balance the tires? Any other advice out there? I should say that I'm pretty handy with tools but I have no recent experience with motorcycle tires. Many thanks in advance for all advice, hints, and warnings. Sam
Good on you Sib for wanting to understand your bike a little more deeply. I'd say that most of us old timers 60+, take our tires to the shop to be mounted, not because we can't do it ourselves, but 'cos we've lived through the years where we had no choice other than to do it ourselves, having said that it is an invaluable skill to get yourself out of the poo if you're stuck. Now the thing is you could buggerise around for God knows how long damaging your fingers or worse still, your beautiful rims for a saving of 3/5 of bugger all, howevever I reckon the best thing to do is find an old timer with decent credibility, (take your time here), and take a wheel or two off your Guzzi and ask him if he'll walk you through the procedure, it'll save you a lot of grief and the old bugger will appreciate that you bow to his knowledge and wisdom gained over a lifetime. Also the forty bucks or so you woulda given the shop could go towards a few drinks and a good conversation which is sure to follow, (depending on how many drinks)!!!. Anyway, that's what I'd do. Huzo.
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Did I mention checking the little red dot ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
I damn well should know Dusty one, but what's the little red dot for again? I'm sure I've been told before but ummmm....!
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The dots generally indicate the light spot - but it's a good idea to look it up for each manufacturer before you mount the tire. The heavy spot on the rim is generally at the stem. However, if you have a wheel balancing tool, you can find the exact heavy spot on the rim. I put my bare rims on the balancer and mark the heavy spot with an "H" inside the rim. It's never been exactly at the valve stem, but is within a few inches of it.
When I mount the tire, I put a piece of masking tape outside the rim at the dot, and align the dot to the tape, rather than the stem. I'm not sure if it makes any practical difference, but my theory is that starting with the best balance possible will require adding the least amount of weight.
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It really isn't hard to do Sib . Are you fairly patient ?
A couple of points , and don't ask why I bring these up . First , double and triple check the direction of rotation , and the check it again .
Balancing can be done by propping the axle on a couple of saw horses , or chairs , whatever is handy . I have learned to simply note the position of the valve stem after repeatedly spinning the wheel .
Did I mention checking the direction of rotation and location of the little red dot ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
LOL, screwed up both a couple of times.
For lube I get the stuff from NAPA (Ruglyde). Yep, I know a gallon is way too much but it works so much better for me when trying to reseat the bead. I have used detergent and water but the Ruglyde works better.
I didn't see anyone mention a ratchet strap? Used to keep the beads 'sealed' so you can get them seated.
C-Clamp. I also use a small wood block or Al plate (2"wide 4" long) under the clamp to push more of the bead down. WD40 works to help unseat stubborn beads (clean it off once the tire is off the rim).
I only have 12" spoons cause I used to carry them on the bike with me when I had tubes. They have worked fine. I just picked up a set at Cycle Gear. I like to have three of them.
Don't have anything fancy to work with. Just plop a couple of 2x4s on the ground and set the tire on them. Not good for your back :)
Balancing I do with the axle. One end on a table, the other in my hand. Works well enough. FWIW, I have also put wheels back on the bike without balancing. They do OK.
Check your wheel bearings while you have the wheel off. Don't forget to put some grease on the splines when you reinstall the wheel.
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I didn't see anyone mention a ratchet strap? Used to keep the beads 'sealed' so you can get them seated.
I did on the novel I wrote above. :smiley: I would do that as a last resort only. I have visions of ratchet strap parts heading for my eye..
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I keep a can of either (starting gas aerosol) and if I get one that will not seat I just brake the bead and spray a bit in and light it with a bic. The seating pop is less noisy than the compressed air one.
Learned from my friend Cody who uses this method on tractor tires (and his pan head).
Works every time.
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We put new tires on the Monza yesterday, and it was a 3 hour affair. (!) The front tire bead would *not* seat. We slathered it with Ru-Glide..nope. warmed it up, nada.. kept running up the shop air pressure until I finally said no more at 95 psi. :shocked: Put the valve core back in and pumped it up to 50 psi and bounced it on the floor repeatedly. Nothing. More Ru-Glide. Tried it at 95 a few more times.
Here, all "classic" Guzzis with cast rims get their tires and rims sprayed liberally with Windex to get the beads to seat. Seems to be the only thing that works for me. Still takes a lot more psi than I'm comfortable with.
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It took 100psi for my front to seat. I was watching the installer.
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I don't have a tire machine but you do want to support the rim and not have the brake disc support any weight. For this I use a small barrel ( 20 or so gallon)with heater hose that is slit down its length on the edge that touches the rim. Holds the thing up in the air to lever the tire off. Some good advice on the preceding posts, not much I can add except to make sure the opposite edge of the tire that you are levering on is in the valley of the rim. Tires are generally mean dirty bastards but they are not real bright so just be smarter than the tire and you'll do fine.
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My experience is they generally seat around 40-45. Not this
mean dirty bastards
:smiley:
I keep a can of either (starting gas aerosol) and if I get one that will not seat I just brake the bead and spray a bit in and light it with a bic. The seating pop is less noisy than the compressed air one.
Learned from my friend Cody who uses this method on tractor tires (and his pan head).
Works every time.
I've heard of that, but was afraid to try it. :smiley: It's filed away in my steel trap memory now, though. :smiley: :boozing:
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You gotta use the real ether, starting fluid burns too slow. Acetylene and ox work well but I usually use more than is needed so it can be exciting
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gulp..
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gulp..
Yep
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You gotta use the real ether, starting fluid burns too slow. Acetylene and ox work well but I usually use more than is needed so it can be exciting
Start stuff works fine for me, has never failed but then I have only done it once. I have watched the guys down at the tire store near my shop and they use an air can and charge it up to 110 psi and release it all at once on pesky truck tires. Every body stands back. I showed them the start stuff and the owner thought that OSHA would not approve.
Anyway its a last choice but if all else fails it WILL work!
On another note, does anybody know the # for a bosch oil filter that fits a round fin?
:-)
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It took 100psi for my front to seat. I was watching the installer.
They likely didn't lube the tire enough.
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Lighter fluid works. Haven't used it on motorcycle tires. Tractor tires in the field away from everyone and I wasn't the one taking the risk.
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I have a harbor freight tire changer. I use it as a work bench for tire changing. A pair of beautiful long handled spoons I have not touched in years. I use a big "C" clamp to break bead, ratchet straps to compress tire. Once you pinch the two beads together with 8 ratchet straps the tire will come off easy by hand. You can use ty-straps also if you have them, I do! By far the easiest way and way safer for the rims as far as scratching or dinging them in my opinion.
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To the OP. Had enough advice yet? :smiley: It's not simple *all* of the time in your home shop. I've done it for years and will continue to do it, but "occasionally" you will hardly make wages. :grin:
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Progress report:
After reading all the valuable comments and advice here, I decided to take the wheels off myself and let a pro replace the tires. The stories about seating the beads spooked me.
I decided that the easiest way to remove the rear wheel was to first remove both mufflers and the right shock absorber, and then remove the wheel along with the bevel box.
A local shop changed the tire and checked the balance in 10 minutes while I waited, and for a very reasonable price.
Putting things back together was only mildly challenging. After several false starts, I had to resort to being clever. The trick I used was to first lay the wheel down with the right side facing up, then put in the cush rubbers, and lay the bevel box over it. After the wheel and bevel box were properly united, I inserted a dowel (mock axle) into the bevel box and wheel to keep things aligned, lifted the two while holding them together and rolled the wheel so that the bevel box studs went into the mating holes in the swing arm. After a bit of jiggling, everything was seated and I threaded on the cap nuts lightly. Then, I inserted the axle from the left, making sure it went through the brake caliper holder and the left spacer, then into the wheel and eventually pushing out the dowel. Whew! Actually, it was easier than it reads.
While the bevel box was out, I inspected it for oil leaks (negative) and also inspected the splines for rust (none), moisture (none), and grease (there was an adequate amount).
Now, on to the front wheel, which I hope and expect will be easier.
Thanks again for all the advice. Sam