Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: swbrenton on May 13, 2016, 02:44:31 PM
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Last Friday I was going up I-77, heading for a rally in Ferguson NC. I was in the middle lane around Columbia SC, going about 65 MPH and saw the traffic ahead of me slow down so I reached up to apply the front brakes. Immediately upon applying brakes, the front wheel jerked to the right and I went off the bike to the left. I landed on the pavement face and left shoulder first and closed my eyes. All I remember is the sound of helmet grinding on the highway. I stayed face down and slid to a stop. I was hurting and my right hand was under my body.
Fortunately just before this had happened I had passed another rider and he turned out to be an EMT. He stopped and took control, commanding me not to move, keeping other traffic from running over me and calling for an ambulance.
As it turned out I could barely move, I suffered several broken ribs and a fractured scapula. The ambulance came and took me to the hospital where I spent 4 days.
I was wearing a Nolan N104, Aerostich Roadcrafter one piece, BMW Motorrad boots and no-name gloves. The boots are the only survivors.
I haven't seen my bike yet, a 2003 EV Touring. I have over 110,000 miles on this bike and hope to put lots more on. I hope to retrieve it tomorrow. My good friends at Ridge Motorsports, Batesburg SC are storing it for me.
Why did this happen, I ask myself. Maybe I applied the brakes too hard. Maybe there was oil or debris on the road. I don't know and probably never will know. I am glad to still be alive.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iqetTv/Aero_Stich_201.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iqetTv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gnynov/Nolan_102.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gnynov)
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Without your gear it would have been much worse. Overall you came out pretty well. Heal quick.
GliderJohn
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WOW !
Dusty
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VERY glad to see you can write up the report on that. A good report, including your gear and how it fared helps all of us. Thanks for sharing.
I had a similar experience with the brakes on my EVT, once, and once only. It was a mid-speed thing and I tapped the front brake to trim speed for some routine reason. As I tapped, it felt like one caliper only was effective, and it went to total lock on a mild tap. And for some reason it jerked the front wheel over to the left hard enough to make me think I was going to lose both grips. I was shaken by the experience, but it has never happened again to me, and this is the first I've read about it happening to anyone else. All I can think is that something was caught betwwn the pad and rotor on one side and all the braking force went to the other. But that still doesn't explain why the wheel wanted to go hard over.
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Great you are still around.
Probably a patch of oil or something like that. As it happened so fast seems like something slick on the road as opposed to some kind of brake failure.
Better your helmet and gloves in the can than you. Heal well.
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People can make their own choices, but there's a million reasons why I'm an ATGATT rider - and most of them are experiences like yours.
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People can make their own choices, but there's a million reasons why I'm an ATGATT rider - and most of them are experiences like yours.
:1:
Thanks for posting, swbrenton. It may not be possible to analyze this incident to find a clear cause, but I am glad you are relatively OK, and will ride another day.
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Glad you're ok or at least will heal up. I drive that section of road quite often. Could have been oil, but more likely - SC has some pretty evil cracks/pot holes on I-77. Some easily big enough to throw a bike's front tire way off. I ruined a car tire last year (hit it in the dark). If I'd been on a bike there is no question I would have gone down.
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Thanks for the post.
Glad you're not worse.
The ribs, why did it have to be the ribs?
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Heal well. Thanks for posting!
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Ouch!
Happy it wasn't as bad as it could have been. Your post is a good reminder that we should always be prepared.
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Yeah, glad it wasn't worse.
Heal well!
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Wow.. All Gear All The Time.. .works!!! Sorry about the bike.. Glad you are 'ok'.....
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... saw the traffic ahead of me slow down so I reached up to apply the front brakes....
Really glad to hear you came out of this okay. I have to admit I sometimes ride with an open-face helmet, but stories like yours keep me in my full face helmet more of the time.
I wonder why you applied the front brake(s) first. Doesn't your EV have the integral braking system, or has it been disintegrated? I always apply my T3's integrated system first when having to initiate a hard stop.
Moto
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Glad to hear you are mending and seem to be in good spirits.
The folks at Ridge Motorsports are great, I purchased my 2016 Bonnie T120 from Jeff a couple of weeks ago.
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Thank goodness you survived - coming off at 65mph must have been terrifying.
What makes it more distrurbing is the thought that you didn't do anything obviously wrong - that this appears to have been a chance even. That is clearly not true - something happened to cause it - but we can't learn from it, so it can happen happen to any of us.
Just a thought - would ABS have made a difference? Almost certainly not. Traction control?
Beerman
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VERY glad to see you can write up the report on that. A good report, including your gear and how it fared helps all of us. Thanks for sharing.
I had a similar experience with the brakes on my EVT, once, and once only. It was a mid-speed thing and I tapped the front brake to trim speed for some routine reason. As I tapped, it felt like one caliper only was effective, and it went to total lock on a mild tap. And for some reason it jerked the front wheel over to the left hard enough to make me think I was going to lose both grips. I was shaken by the experience, but it has never happened again to me, and this is the first I've read about it happening to anyone else. All I can think is that something was caught betwwn the pad and rotor on one side and all the braking force went to the other. But that still doesn't explain why the wheel wanted to go hard over.
I don't understand, "tapping" the front brake at the lever is supposed to actuate only one front caliper. Aren't they integrated?
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I don't understand, "tapping" the front brake at the lever is supposed to actuate only one front caliper. Aren't they integrated?
2003 EV - The right front disc/caliper is independent. The left front disc/caliper is integrated with the rear disc/caliper. The integration does not occur with the hand brake.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Thanks for posting. Sorry for you, but it always good for the rest of us to hear of accidents and evaluate our own performance. By way of admission, I had a near identical get-off on the freeway at similar speed. I was doing a quick head check before changing lanes. Just as I looked back, something happened up ahead. When I looked forward again it was a sea of red lights and I instantly calculated that there was no way I was going to stop before impact. Bad coincidence. Happened in microseconds. I braked hard to attenuate the most I could. Overbraked the front and slid just as you did. When I and the bike came to a halt, the incident up front had cleared and traffic was now rolling away. We slid to where the last car USED TO BE. My only serious medical injury was caused BY MY SAFETY GEAR. Doh! Leather overpants with side zippers. Pants leg rolled while I was sliding and the zipper teeth took out a big chunk of my knee. Pulled off the broken windscreen and rode back home. The WORST part was calling Regina from the ER to tell her I was fine but that it was HER bike I had been riding. Uh-oh!
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Glad you're around to tell the tale! Sliding down interstates must be the worst. Good choices on the gear!
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I'm so glad your still with us! terrifying.. broken ribs hurt..btdt
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get well soon. glad you were wearing your gear. If there's a way to fix the Cali, this group will figure it out.
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2003 EV - The right front disc/caliper is independent. The left front disc/caliper is integrated with the rear disc/caliper. The integration does not occur with the hand brake.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
I know that. But Foto made it sound like a malfunction when only one caliper worked when he tapped the front brake in his above post.
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I'm happy to hear that you're okay. Could have been much worse. You'll probably never know exactly what caused the bike to react that way but you're around to tell the story and that's all that counts.
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Speedy recovery... Good gear made the injury a lot less than it could have been.
You're lucky, time to buy a lottery ticket.
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I know that. But Foto made it sound like a malfunction when only one caliper worked when he tapped the front brake in his above post.
Only one side does work from the front brake lever .
Dusty
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Condolences. I've had a front wheel disappear like that and it happens so fast there's nothing that can be done: up then down. Mend fast!
Rich
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SW,
Wow, what an experience. The mystery wash out endures. All the gear, all the time, hooray for you!
Watched a young sport bike rider this afternoon blow through our area doing 60 in a 30: flip flops, t-shirt, no helmet, you know.
Shake my head. Heat is on here on the TEXAS gulf coast. Hot and humid as hades. Hence, many riders strip. Big mistake.
Take care and heal up, and ride again.
My bet: oil slick, or some pavement divit caused your drop at speed.
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Makes me want to think about just using the pedal and not the right front brake.
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2003 EV - The right front disc/caliper is independent. The left front disc/caliper is integrated with the rear disc/caliper. The integration does not occur with the hand brake.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
My EV has delinked brakes on account of I do a lot of riding on no roads. There are times in my environment where linked brakes can be a bad thing -- like downhill switchbacks on slippery clay. If you do 90% or better of your miles on pavement, then I would not recommend delinking the brakes.
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Is it possible on a linked brake system that if the rear wheel bearing goes that the rear wheel will wobble forcing out the rear calipers which forces brake fluid hard and fast to the front caliper momentarily locking the front as the rear kicks to the side throwing you on your face?
just saying because i had something similar on a car when a left front bearing went and the right wheel locked up. Lucky not to roll.
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One of the most neglected service items on any vehicle is the brake system. I flush yearly and inspect at every tire change. Glad you are still around.
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....Just a thought - would ABS have made a difference? Almost certainly not. Traction control?
Beerman
Glad you're still alive. I would respectfully disagree with the above comment. This is exactly the situation that ABS is designed to prevent. As soon as you lock up your front wheel, you lose all control. If the bike and the locked wheel are pointing even a little off dead straight ahead, you WILL go down.
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Wow man glad you are all right. Jeff and Byron will take good care of the bike; they serviced my EVT for years when I lived down that way. Hopefully Byron will figure out what went wrong (for all of us).
I've lost the front wheel on dirt at only about 35mph but I know how it is. You are going fine and then the next second your face is sliding on the Earth with no clue as to how it got there. Unfortunately your section of Earth was paved and moving a lot faster. Heal up.
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This is exactly the situation that ABS is designed to prevent.
I agree. It is also exactly the situation the integral (linked) original braking system on the EV was designed to prevent. I suspect this particular EV was de-linked, since the OP referred to actuating the "front brakes," in the plural. In the original system only a single brake is activated by the front lever. The foot pedal activates a single front disk and the rear disk, as pehayes said earlier.
There is nothing more dangerous than overbraking a front tire that is not brought up to temperature by a gradual increase in braking force. The brilliance of the integral system is that the rider can use a more abrupt application of force without putting it all on the front tire too soon (before it heats up) -- that is, if they apply the foot pedal first, and aggressively. A secondary benefit is that riders who habitually grab the front lever first will have less power at their disposal to lock the wheel, though this is not the optimal way to use the system.
I hope the OP will clarify whether the brakes were delinked, since this information could be helpful to others.
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...There is nothing more dangerous than overbraking a front tire that is not brought up to temperature by a gradual increase in braking force....
It's not only the tire "being brought up to temperature". During braking, the effective moving weight of the bike shifts toward the front wheel. During controlled hard deceleration, the front wheel bears as much as 80% of the full weight of the bike plus rider, which makes it grip the road better and able to brake harder without locking up, than an un-weighted wheel would. In contrast, if the front wheel is braked suddenly before the weight transfer can occur, it can much more easily lock up and then more easily slide.
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I had a similar get-off years ago on my brand new kawi. Fractured scapula and cracked ribs. Couldn't understand why the bars nearly jerked from my hands and the slammed the pavement pretty hard. I think I was only doing 45 mph. I went back to the spot a few days later and sure enough there was a groove or crack in the pavement with some little bit of gravel in it. The skid marks showed that was where the tire began laying rubber down. Happy you didn't get hurt too badly. Funny though, while I was in waiting in hospital to see the Doc They brought in a fellow who went down on US 60 on his Harley. He was riding bare chested with no gear but his engineer boots. The guy looked like raw hamburger. I was in the bed next to him and he reeked of booze. Maybe that dulled his pain a bit because he was yakking at me the whole time they were scrubbing and bandaging him. I told him my helmet and leathers kept me from looking as bad as him. He called me a pussy and said s--t happens. I wonder if he's still around?
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Scary stuff!!! Glad you're going to be OK :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Not good news swbrenton but thank you for writing it up.
Broken bones equate to a seriously bad 'get off' in my book, as does a face plant! Scares the bejeezus out of me that, as I'm an open face man. I think you were unlucky but I suppose it could have been much worse. You could have been hit by someone!
The circumstances worry me a bit too. A front wheel slide is a pretty quick way to exit ones bike as I know from experience (1970s Bridgestone front tire. 1st and last. Never been offed so fast in all my life! ) but I'm worried about the cause.
I hope someone does the fine tooth comb act with your brakes to see if there was a fault, because if there was I for one want to know about it! Frankly I'm hoping they are fine and it was something on the road.
The comments about de-linking and ABS have been interesting but I don't think they hold any water in this instance.
You have over 100,000 miles up on this bike alone! That makes you a very experienced rider and I don't for a moment believe that such a rider would over brake his front end delinked or not. Or, even if in a neglectful moment he did he would a/ likely have eased off quick enough or b/ at least remembered that he'd done it.
Ergo, either your front wheel went out for some other reason (like yak fat on the road or similar) or, given that you had just applied the brakes, something, at this point unknown, locked them.
In either case I don't believe ABS would have helped.
I wonder, were you on a curve at the time?
Personally I haven't got enough miles up on my own Guzz to be comfortable with the linked brakes yet. In a "STOP RIGHT F******G NOW" situation I still grab the handlebar (front) brake, then follows a period of teeth gritted brow sweating terror while the following goes through my mind.
"holycrap I haven't got enough brakes oh that's right I'm supposed to use the foot brake too"
Then there is the interminable wait while I get my foot off the board and up onto the brake peddle. Only then do we start to slow down at an acceptable rate.
I think there is room for improvement in this set up.
Thanks again for writing this up. Doing that gives us the opportunity to vicariously learn through others misfortune. It's a good way to do it.
A bit like the pub/campfire tales of "How I crashed and burned and lived to ride again" Such can be the cause of great merriment when properly told (though I realise that is not the intent here) but they have their purpose and usefulness.
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The OP mentions nothing about a emergency stopping situation that may have resulted in a skid. We know nothing about his rider skills..I believe no one can make a judgement without more facts...
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The comments about de-linking and ABS have been interesting but I don't think they hold any water in this instance.
You have over 100,000 miles up on this bike alone! That makes you a very experienced rider and I don't for a moment believe that such a rider would over brake his front end delinked or not. Or, even if in a neglectful moment he did he would a/ likely have eased off quick enough or b/ at least remembered that he'd done it.
I've got similar miles of experience, and I've scared myself silly inducing a skid by grabbing the front brake of my old TDM 850 in a panic situation. It's hard to brake with your best technique when you're surprised, I've found. (And I've practiced my technique lots and lots in non-panic situations.)
Personally I haven't got enough miles up on my own Guzz to be comfortable with the linked brakes yet. In a "STOP RIGHT F******G NOW" situation I still grab the handlebar (front) brake, then follows a period of teeth gritted brow sweating terror while the following goes through my mind.
"holycrap I haven't got enough brakes oh that's right I'm supposed to use the foot brake too"
Then there is the interminable wait while I get my foot off the board and up onto the brake peddle. Only then do we start to slow down at an acceptable rate.
I think there is room for improvement in this set up.
There's room for improvement in your technique! With this system you should apply the foot pedal first. Then you can add the front lever for more power. Using the front lever first doesn't take advantage of the set up at all.
This is my considered opinion, at any rate.
I do hope the OP will provide more details when he's able. I imagine this is something that could have happened to any of us.
Moto
P.S. Thanks, sib, for adding the important point about weight transfer.
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In either case I don't believe ABS would have helped.
Wrong
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One of the most neglected service items on any vehicle is the brake system. I flush yearly and inspect at every tire change. Glad you are still around.
:1: 1000 times.
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Glad you're still alive. I would respectfully disagree with the above comment. This is exactly the situation that ABS is designed to prevent. As soon as you lock up your front wheel, you lose all control. If the bike and the locked wheel are pointing even a little off dead straight ahead, you WILL go down.
Thanks SIB. I wasn't trying to in anyway suggest that ABS can not be a key safety feature, and thank you - and others - for comment on this point. I was trying to question whether ABS or Traction Control could/should help. My first thought was that because the OP described the action as an immediate reaction with the wheel moving to the right, ABS would not have helped - it didn't sound like the wheel locked. I'd love to be wrong on this, but it would be helpful to understand.
Beerman
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Maybe too much of reaction on part of rider gave an inadvertent pull to the right on the bars????
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Hey, all else taken into account, final score:
Rider 2, Misfortune 1.
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. As soon as you lock up your front wheel, you lose all control. If the bike and the locked wheel are pointing even a little off dead straight ahead, you WILL go down.
There is almost always some camber involved, and of course the locked wheel goes ever so slightly downhill following the camber until you lose balance.
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First of all thanks to all who have replied with wishes to get well soon. I'm working on it.
I am pleased this thread is getting a responsible discussion of 'what-ifs'. I had posted it to make anyone aware of my misfortune in hopes it may help them in the future avoid similar. I found an article recently (before the crash) that had been weighing in my mind. It was in the May 2016 issue of Cycle World, pg 36. It read "I've really been focused on the first 3 percent and the last 3 percent of my braking." I had been thinking about this a lot and wondering if I should take away anything from the article. I like to read and attempt to improve my skills as much as possible, but I could not see the importance of this. Now I see better.
As for more detail regarding the conditions: Time of day was just a little after 12 noon. Clear sky, clear road, sunny warm about 75F. The road ahead was straight and level. I was in the middle lane of a three lane highway with light traffic. I had just eaten lunch at Chick Fil A, and shortly after arriving in the ER I threw that up (sorry nurse Heather).
I went to Ridge Motorsports today with some buddies and a trailer to retrieve my bike. I had been told the tow driver started the bike when he had it. So one of the mechanics at the shop started it and rode it up onto the trailer. I had a big smile on my face, this is, and has been, one durable bike.
I will need a new fairing, windshield, front brake lever and mirrors. The tip over bars, floor boards and saddle bags have road rash but are in working order. There are two small scrapes to the front fender. And that's it. No other visible damage. I cannot ride yet due to broken bones and generally I'm slow to get things done so I will take my sweet time and go over the bike very carefully. (I have done all the maintenance on this bike myself) (Except for the camshaft recall, this is a hydraulic lifter engine).
Stephen
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nmpova/Guzzi101.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nmpova)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iv6CMF/Guzzi102.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iv6CMF)
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Steve I think I have the windshield that will fit the stock fairing if you can find one or repair the one you have. I know I have two of the lollipop mirrors too.
George
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I think I have a front brake lever, but let's check fitment.
Rich A
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Is there a skid mark on the right rotor in the picture above?
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Is there a skid mark on the right rotor in the picture above?
I didn't notice one today while looking over the bike. I will check closer during teardown and rebuild.
I will probably replace both front rotors just as a precaution anyway. Those rotors are EBC aftermarket which I installed several years ago. I give rotors a very important safety rating and since they experienced this recent trauma I think I will just retire them and give the bike brand new ones. She deserves it.
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Steve,
I have a full EV fairing with short and tall screens if you need.
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I've got similar miles of experience, and I've scared myself silly inducing a skid by grabbing the front brake of my old TDM 850 in a panic situation. It's hard to brake with your best technique when you're surprised, I've found. (And I've practiced my technique lots and lots in non-panic situations.)
Interesting Moto. I can honestly say I have never experienced that problem.
(I have experience braking right on that edge though, but with drums anyway, you get sufficient feel for what your tire is doing to control it.)
There's room for improvement in your technique! With this system you should apply the foot pedal first. Then you can add the front lever for more power. Using the front lever first doesn't take advantage of the set up at all.
You are probably right about my technique there Moto. The trouble is I am finding it difficult to retrain my self after what in reality is only a year of Guzzi riding when stacked against over 40 years of doing it the other way round. Despite my best efforts to date, my right hand still thinks it's in charge of 80% + of the braking. I did think of delinking them but I think there might be a better way.
That also doesn't address the time lag. It takes time to translate the recognised need to active application of the foot brake. In cars that has been measured as 3/4 of a second. How far does one travel in 3/4 of a second at say 70mph? I can't be bothered working it out, but I'm sure that time would be better spent with the brakes applied.
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Wrong
kentktk, this is'nt a simple pol so that won't do. You need reasons behind such an opinion.
At this point of time I am not convinced that the wheel did lock up, or if it did, that it was not caused by something physical (rather than over braking) which would have rendered ABS null and void.
We'll just have to wait and see what the OP comes up with in his postmortem.
I am not however dissing the effectiveness of ABS, it's the kind of thing that I would not mind having but don't feel sufficient need to fit it.
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No dog in this fight, but since I have a few different types of bike in the stable, non of which have linked brakes of this type, having to react differently from one bike to another in an emergency/panic situation would be a no go for me. I'd de-link them. YMMV
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Johnr:
0.75 sec @70mph equates to 77 feet
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Interesting Moto. I can honestly say I have never experienced that problem.
(I have experience braking right on that edge though, but with drums anyway, you get sufficient feel for what your tire is doing to control it.)
You are probably right about my technique there Moto. The trouble is I am finding it difficult to retrain my self after what in reality is only a year of Guzzi riding when stacked against over 40 years of doing it the other way round. Despite my best efforts to date, my right hand still thinks it's in charge of 80% + of the braking. I did think of delinking them but I think there might be a better way.
That also doesn't address the time lag. It takes time to translate the recognised need to active application of the foot brake. In cars that has been measured as 3/4 of a second. How far does one travel in 3/4 of a second at say 70mph? I can't be bothered working it out, but I'm sure that time would be better spent with the brakes applied.
I should say that I haven't locked my brakes at highway speed, just coming to an unexpected downhill stop, at a stop sign that I hadn't seen. I've spent a lot of time bringing my front tire to the howling stage, to judge its lockup threshold. But I do think emergencies are different.
Having to use the foot pedal from a floorboard set up -- so you need to raise your foot to move it to the pedal, if that is what you face -- is a real concern. My T3 has foot pegs, so there is no greater delay than in using the hand lever. For a floorboard set up, one of Honda's systems in which (I recall) the front lever operated the rear disk and one front disk, would be better. This might not be too difficult a change to make on your bike, if you can source the appropriate master cylinders. Maybe you are considering this?
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No dog in this fight, but since I have a few different types of bike in the stable, non of which have linked brakes of this type, having to react differently from one bike to another in an emergency/panic situation would be a no go for me. I'd de-link them. YMMV
Agreed, this is a bit of a problem, though I've found I can adapt to using different systems better than I first expected. In my case, with only two bikes, my preference would be to link the brakes on my Griso, rather than de-link the ones on my T3. Maybe someday.
I definitely prefer the everyday riding experience of the linked brake system.
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Stephen, glad you are still with the living! I guess you were not towing the trailer this time. Are you going to have the Roadcrafter repaired or just replaced? I'm so used to us being in matching gear that I'd hate to see you change, particularly after this testimony to how well the suit works. Looking at the left knee I can only imagine what would have happened if you were wearing jeans.
Peter Y.
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Stephen has been riding that same EVT for a long time and I'm sure it wasn't a technique issue. You can grab a handful of that front lever on the EVT and the usual consequence is that you don't have enough stopping power. This time it obviously had too much. Looking at that picture of the RH side above if you do a closeup of the rotor it looks like there's a black mark on it and I'm wondering if he got a piece of debris or something in there just as he squeezed.
I dug out the mirrors so I'll get them down to him.
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For a floorboard set up, one of Honda's systems in which (I recall) the front lever operated the rear disk and one front disk, would be better. This might not be too difficult a change to make on your bike, if you can source the appropriate master cylinders. Maybe you are considering this?
Well no, I hadn't considered that. But given that for all intents and purposes nearly all stopping comes from the front end and considering what would have to be done to achieve the suggested set up I doubt I would do that.
What I have been thinking about, and I grant freely that I'll have to think about it quite a lot more, is converting the front right disk set up (the handlebar operated one) to the specks of the same year EVs that had a single front disk.
The rational being that they were meant to operate on their own on the front and would have sufficient braking power to do it.
This would mean that the right hand would achieve its expected results without applying the foot brake at all, buy me time, and that the foot brake would help matters along once applied.
It would also be a lot simpler and cheaper than delinking.
The only flaw I can see in this idea to date, is that in total my front brakes could well be much too powerful, with one full steam front brake on the right and another 1/2 steam one on the left being applied at once.
This might not be as bad as it sounds in practice though as I, as I'm sure you have, have long learned to treat the back brake with a great deal of caution, especially under heavy braking.
This is of course because as the weight moves forward to the front wheel the available traction at the rear reduces considerably. It then slides at the drop of a hat. (and yes, I know ABS would fix that, but I don't have it.)
As a result, through another of those long ingrained habits, I tend to stab the back brake peddle somewhat gingerly under heavy emergency braking. I use it more as a steadying brake and rely on the front for real stopping.
As an example, my last bike had a powerful front brake and a pretty useless back one. It was however built in a time when tires were narrower than they tend to be these days (it had 19" wheels). None the less, given a rough chip road surface in good condition it could lift the back wheel nearly a foot off the ground under emergency braking. Not much traction for the rear brake then! In fact it may as well not been fitted!
(I would add that it did this with absolutely no encouragement from me. Intentional "Stoppies" were unknown at the time and would have been considered a very stupid thing to do)
If I do get around to making this brake mod it will carefully tested. It will depend a great deal on the feedback and feel of the brake and I just might have to drop the hydraulic pressure a little in the right front, but that is a relatively easy thing to do.
There are however a great many higher priority items on the bike to spend money I don't have on before that reaches the top of the list.
I also think we may have strayed far from the OPs post and intent.
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Very glad you are OK! Another testament to wearing our gear. Thank goodness there wasn't a semi barreling down behind you! Continue to mend, and hop back on and enjoy life :cool:
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The rear end of my 98 EV began passing me and my wife as the bike slowly low sided when I grabbed too much from brake in a.panic situation.
Photos revealed that I was on a painted arrow when the front wheel locked and the bike spilled us onto the road. The bike faired better than we did.
We had all the gear on. My wife suffered a cracked bone in her wrist. I suffered a banged up knee and a sore ankle from the Guzzi taking a short ride on it.
Sue's gear survived. My helmet took a whack on the back, my riding pants are missing some material at the knee and my boots are missing some shiny leather from the toe area.
Tom
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I dug out the mirrors so I'll get them down to him.
You're a good man George. Thanks.
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kentktk, this is'nt a simple pol so that won't do. You need reasons behind such an opinion.
At this point of time I am not convinced that the wheel did lock up, or if it did, that it was not caused by something physical (rather than over braking) which would have rendered ABS null and void.
We'll just have to wait and see what the OP comes up with in his postmortem.
I am not however dissing the effectiveness of ABS, it's the kind of thing that I would not mind having but don't feel sufficient need to fit it.
I'm an ABS fan but am not yet convinced that it would have prevented this particular wash out. Holy cow, so glad that once your ribs heal you'll be ok. Great job with the ATGATT.
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Agreed, this is a bit of a problem, though I've found I can adapt to using different systems better than I first expected. In my case, with only two bikes, my preference would be to link the brakes on my Griso, rather than de-link the ones on my T3. Maybe someday.
I definitely prefer the everyday riding experience of the linked brake system.
Floorboards *would* be different. I don't like them, Sam I am.. :) for that very reason of having to pick up your foot to apply the brakes. I pretend the brakes aren't linked, and always start to slow down with the front brake, followed by coordinating the rear. The linked brakes just give a much more powerful coordinated brake application. You *can* get lazy, though, and use the rear brake all the time. This will give you grief getting on the Mighty Scura.. :) so I don't do that..
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In my case, with only two bikes, my preference would be to link the brakes on my Griso, rather than de-link the ones on my T3. Maybe someday.
I definitely prefer the everyday riding experience of the linked brake system.
Same here. I'm getting better with my G11 during panic stops but I still have problems with locking the back wheel. I don't think it's a matter of control after decades of soccer, some taekwondo and generally using my feet because I don't want to lean over or pick up stuff chubby mans long reach. I think is more a matter of my 260 lbs geared up pressing down on the little brake lever.
Maybe I need to get a bigger master cylinder to increase the effort on my rear brake.
I would prefer linked to be able to use more of my brute leg force and less of my finer control hand strength.
Photos revealed that I was on a painted arrow when the front wheel locked and the bike spilled us onto the road. The bike faired better than we did.
I hate those damn Thermoplastic Arrows! The Engineer that designed those accidents waiting to happen should be horsewhipped. Whenever I see them I figure the arrows are just hidden oil pools waiting for the unsuspecting 2-wheeler.
Mark
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kentktk, this is'nt a simple pol so that won't do. You need reasons behind such an opinion.
I am not however dissing the effectiveness of ABS, it's the kind of thing that I would not mind having but don't feel sufficient need to fit it.
You will only need it when you need it and then it`s too late.