Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: alanp on May 15, 2016, 12:20:48 PM
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This will get long, but the background is I have been a long time lover of motorcycling and find myself loving it more and more. I just returned from a 4000 mile trip to CA and am heading to ILL in a couple of weeks. Also, I have reached the stage in life where I can fortunately afford any motorcycle I want. So I have been shopping for "The One Bike to Rule Them All". It would replace the Triumph and the Suzuki in my signature, the Lemans stays.
My initial criteria (potentially subject to change)
-2 up and touring capable
-Sport tourer or ADV bike
-More power than my 650 vStrom (for passing and riding on the well known "closed tracks")
-Not too big (i.e. not a Goldwing)
-And, to keep this ramble from getting way too long, Japanese.
-Japanese because a) reliability, b) wider dealer networks and c) I would really like a LOCAL dealer (rules out everything non Japanese except KTM)
OK, so with that in mind, I have been shopping. And although I said Japanese, I haven't ignored BMW, KTM, Guzzi, Aprilia or Triumph but they are on the back burner for the reasons stated. Here is the odd thing I am finding, keeping in mind I can really get anything I want: There isn't anything I want!
Kawasaki Versys 1000 - sort of bland, bars seem too close, don't like the stock luggage. Kind of a Mazda CX-5 when a Lexus RX is more what I am thinking.
Suzuki vStrom 1000 - see Kawasaki above. Its OK, but these are both pretty basic bikes, kind of the crank window and manual door locks version on a modern motorcycle
Kawasaki Councors 1400 - A gigantic pig. And kind of outdated.
Yamaha - Aha! I am looking at Yamaha's and thinking I have found the holy grail. That Super Tenere looks really nice, and the FJR has had a stellar reputation in the sport touring circles for years.
So I ride the Super T. Nice bike - really nice. But the throttle response (it has two modes) is really snatchy in sport (s) mode. REALLY snatchy. Like gave me whiplash snatchy, the worst I have ever experienced by far. So I get on the forums and ask about it. The just of it is, yes it is snatchy and there is not really a fix. I was surprised at how many people said they just use the T mode (trail or touring?) to avoid the snatch. In T mode the bike might have as much zip as my 650 vStrom, maybe. It is a totally unacceptable situation IMO. OK, the FJR.
The FJR is a pretty sweet bike. One test ride and I am hooked. Second test ride just to make sure, not. I experienced head shake (tank slapper almost). Dealer takes the bike out and agrees, yes it has a head shake. I have ridden dozens of bikes and only once did I ever experience this (on a 1987 K100 that I sold because it had head shake that could not be fixed). All my Guzzi's have been rock solid, especially my Lemans. So, to the forums to see if this is a one off problem. Nope. Apparently all sorts of people have this issue with the much vaunted FJR. A fix might be to installed tapered roller headset bearings. Or not. This is not an acceptable condition to me (I detest head shake!) and I go away from the Yamaha dealer feeling like Yamaha is a company that doesn't know how to build a motorcycle that works. And this is a very unexpected feeling.
So Honda. Wow, I just can't see anything they make that is remotely interesting to me. They have built a wall between me and their products, and it is one butt ugly wall!
So here I sit, wanting a nice shiny new motorcycle - literally anything I can dream of - and thinking that 650 vStrom has been a really nice little bike. Why bother to replace it? This was not the outcome I was expecting...
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I know what you mean. There are really very few new bikes out there that appeal to me. But looking at what you want from a bike (and ignoring the fact that you said "Japanese") i would think an 8v Guzzi would really fit the bill. Have you ever ridden a Stelvio?
Edit: check out Mooney's post on his back road Stelvio trip.
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Wholey Schmidt some of you guys are hard to please :laugh:
Dusty
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Wholey Schmidt some of you guys are hard to please :laugh:
Dusty
I know, but you feel my pain right? ....Right?
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I know what you mean. There are really very few new bikes out there that appeal to me. But looking at what you want from a bike (and ignoring the fact that you said "Japanese") i would think an 8v Guzzi would really fit the bill. Have you ever ridden a Stelvio?
Edit: check out Mooney's post on his back road Stelvio trip.
Yes, I have. It, the BMW GS and KTM Adventure are all too tall for me. The other ADV bikes I mentioned are just enough smaller and/or lighter that I am comfortable with them.
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Alan,
I think you already have the answer, . . . you own it. The 650 V is hard to beat in so many ways. I sold mine and have missed it just about every day. Otherwise, depending on your definition of "Adventure", I'd get the Wing. Don't know if you've ridden one of the new ones, but they are surprisingly fast and handle quite well for a big bike.
If you can get a do around for the Super Ten, then I would say that's the bike.
Good luck.
Tom
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There may be some truth to the idea that you don't choose the right bike, it chooses you. Seems to me the best bikes I owned were the most "interesting" ones not necesssrily the best analyticslly, how they go on paper seems to matter less and less these days, maybe 'cos I don't ride on paper! It's a pretty good position to be in though isn't it, meandering through the mass of machinery and working towards a decision. Good luck mate, I hope you enjoy the search. Huzo.
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Alan,
I think you already have the answer, . . . you own it. The 650 V is hard to beat in so many ways. I sold mine and have missed it just about every day. Otherwise, depending on your definition of "Adventure", I'd get the Wing. Don't know if you've ridden one of the new ones, but they are surprisingly fast and handle quite well for a big bike.
If you can get a do around for the Super Ten, then I would say that's the bike.
Good luck.
Tom
Good input! I should say that I am not at all unhappy with the way things stand, just really surprised that the answer might be what I already have. I agree about the 650 strom. It is the best all around bike I have ever had, and but for a few more ponies I wouldn't even be looking.
Also agree about the Super T. It would be the answer if they could make one that didn't have THE ABSOLUTE WORST FUELING ON ANY BIKE, EVER.
As for the Wing, you are probably right but I am not a Wing guy. You might notice that I didn't mention Harley or Victory or Indian either. I am also not that sort of guy. No offense intended to anyone, just not my things.
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Well Alan, I'm sure there's something out there that will work for you. At least you have the Lemans to remember what a motorcycle feels like. If you are happy with the Weestrom, other than the power, maybe the bigger Vstrom would work?
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I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants? Both the cam heads and the newer liquid cooled models are very satisfying rides.
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Alanp, part of the problem you are facing might be the changing face of the motorcycle industry. In a word, niche. Back in the old days (sigh, not again) motorcycle choices were much more limited and our expectations, as well, were more limited. Today, you want a 1000cc? Well, sport bike, touring bike, adv bike, dirt bike? There are always trade offs in specialization and I think this is what may be affecting your decision. The market has changed, the choices have expanded exponentially and "resistance is futile." Good luck with your search.
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Now Yamaha doesn't know how to build bikes?
Fitting tapered bearings is a common.practice, among many brands, costs very little and can be done befire you pick up the bike.
So now what is the issue? Power? It has it. Gear ratios? It now has a 6 speed. Comfort? Plenty of adjustments available and so are loads if accessories. Technology? Take your pick and if you want simple they have a model for that too. Weight? You want more than a 650 VStrom right? That is no lightweight so if you want Japanese you've sort of culled the available herd already and ...
Want to be able to run 4000 miles, then do it again and take only your credit card and not need to plan around sparse dealers? The FJR does it in spades.
Fit and finish? Just looked at them and it is nothing but first class.
Seems you already said no to pretty much most of what is out there meeting your criteria and other than a very minor issue with the FJR it does everything you want.
That VStrom 650 isn't perfect either, you are just used to it and accept what faults it might have. Apply the same to other bikes and I bet there are plenty you'd be happy with.
I wonder about he headstock shake though. It isn't like it shakes going down the road and there is a fix, the VStrims do it too. No chain maintenance vs a simple tapered bearing install? Not even a question.
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You said you can afford any bike you want.
Would you consider modifying one? Thinking starting with a e.g. Norge, big Breva, 1200 Sport.
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I just spent about a year with the same problem. I rode an ST1100 Honda for about 250,000 miles and thinking of retiring I was in the market for a new bike to replace the ST. Went to my local Honda store as I have been more than satisfied with the Honda's that I have owned. Nothing there that even came close to the old ST1100. I rode a used ST1300 but liked it, not so much and they no longer make them. Tried a Yamaha and Kawasaki but no.
I ended up buying a 2015 left over Norge and I couldn't be happier. No dealer in every town but if the truth were known, there are probably very few Honda dealers who I would feel comfortable with fixing my bike. Mostly I'll do it myself anyway.
So far I am very happy with the Norge. It has all the comfort of my old ST and much more personality.
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Ride a new Stelvio...you owe it to yourself before you make a decision...
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The VFR1200 checks off 5 of your boxes,and it's shaft drive like a true Sports Tourer should be. I have the DCT version and love it. You can get factory hard bags for it also. You can now get electronic cruise control for the VFR,info in this link. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/83266-veefour-electronic-cruise-control-installed-and-tested/ (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/83266-veefour-electronic-cruise-control-installed-and-tested/)
My ride: 2010 VFR 1200 DCT
(http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/uploads/gallery/album_7574/gallery_24491_7574_5711968.jpg)
(http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/uploads/gallery/album_7574/gallery_24491_7574_4329349.jpg)
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Now Yamaha doesn't know how to build bikes?
Fitting tapered bearings is a common.practice, among many brands, costs very little and can be done befire you pick up the bike.
So now what is the issue? Power? It has it. Gear ratios? It now has a 6 speed. Comfort? Plenty of adjustments available and so are loads if accessories. Technology? Take your pick and if you want simple they have a model for that too. Weight? You want more than a 650 VStrom right? That is no lightweight so if you want Japanese you've sort of culled the available herd already and ...
Want to be able to run 4000 miles, then do it again and take only your credit card and not need to plan around sparse dealers? The FJR does it in spades.
Fit and finish? Just looked at them and it is nothing but first class.
Seems you already said no to pretty much most of what is out there meeting your criteria and other than a very minor issue with the FJR it does everything you want.
That VStrom 650 isn't perfect either, you are just used to it and accept what faults it might have. Apply the same to other bikes and I bet there are plenty you'd be happy with.
I wonder about he headstock shake though. It isn't like it shakes going down the road and there is a fix, the VStrims do it too. No chain maintenance vs a simple tapered bearing install? Not even a question.
Norge Pilot,
I agree that the FJR is a good fit for me, but of all the flaws an otherwise fully functional motorcycle could have, head shake is the single most objectionable to me, just short of maybe "the front wheel has a tendency to fly off at speed". No amount of shake is tolerable in my book. Fortunately I have only experienced it on one bike before the FJR, but my experience with that bike makes me leery. I put lots of time and money into trying to fix the shake, and it never went away. New head bearings, new tires, different pressures, suspension setup, truing the wheels, etc. Nothing helped. So while it MIGHT be that a new set of tapered roller bearings would fix the FJR problem.
As for other bikes having flaws, sure, or at least shortcomings depending on how you want to look at it. But head shake is the king of flaws in my book.
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Well Alan, I'm sure there's something out there that will work for you. At least you have the Lemans to remember what a motorcycle feels like. If you are happy with the Weestrom, other than the power, maybe the bigger Vstrom would work?
It is the best bet so far. Like the 650 to me, it is a fine bike with no major shortcomings. But I was kind of looking for "more", and there is all the farkling that has to be done to make it as good as my current 650 (Corbin seat, windshield, heated grips, luggage, crash bars etc. etc.
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By the way everybody, thanks for playing along. It is a cold rainy Sunday here, so this is entertaining me immensely! :thumb:
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The VFR1200 checks off 5 of your boxes,and it's shaft drive like a true Sports Tourer should be. I have the DCT version and love it. You can get factory hard bags for it also. You can now get electronic cruise control for the VFR,info in this link.
Hey, there is something that wasn't on my radar and I need to check it out. And despite my previous Honda comment, this is not ugly. Thanks.
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Bummer about your discounting of the FJR. I've got about 26000 on my 2010, bought new in 2011. The only front end related issue I ever had was with a worn out front tire, otherwise never an issue. A friend has the same bike, no issues from his, either. I never read of shimmy problems in magazine reviews.
I tested the Super Tenere a couple years ago. Boy, did that bike fit me like a glove. It had a quick throttle but nothing I thought about after the first observation.
Steve.
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SteveT,
I haven't completely discounted the FJR. It is my favorite of the bikes I have ridden. But as I said, the one I rode had a head shake, I see on the forums that head shake is not uncommon, so I have to figure out if there is a way to get one and be CERTAIN that it won't have that issue. Installing tapered roller bearings MAY be the answer. But how to be sure?
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I've ridden 21k miles on my Super Tenere, and better than 99% of them in "T mode". My experience is pretty common- unless you want super sport bike throttle response, "T mode" works best.
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A buddy has the Concours, loves it. A bit of a gear head (Honda XR650R, Ducati Monster, 911) and should probably be arrested for speeding. Loves the big brown Kawasaki. But as far as I know only rides one up.
It seems that many of these bikes tick all the right buttons save the "character" button. So I'll humbly suggest that you get a bike that does tick most of the boxes, character be damned (you have the Lemans for that) and enjoy the machine and being in the wind.
I have found that too many times, character gets in the way on long rides while the "appliance" lets one enjoy their vacation.
Honda; I seem to be a fan of the brand (have the CB1100 - love it!, XR650L, like the bike but a real POS so far, love the looks of the VFR but does not fit me well and considering the Africa Twin - not out yet and from what I have read I think you should at least pencil it in).
A fellow Guzzi rider had a Triumph Rocket III. He sold it for an Indian because of the need for a full dresser - but he was in awe of that bike. It's too big, it's too brash, but the torque will put a smile on your face that won't quit. :D Totally impractical so go for it.
Otherwise. Get something that does the job very well and enjoy the time on road in the wind - and hopefully you won't miss the character until you can get back on the goose.
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I have found that too many times, character gets in the way on long rides while the "appliance" lets one enjoy their vacation.
That's so damn true it's scary, took a BMW R1200 GS to Nordkapp last year 'cos I didn't have the guts to trust the Norge. But I didn't enjoy the trip as much as a result, now I'm faced with the same decision again this year.
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the VFR1200 looks promising.. I know it's British but the new Tiger could be worth a look..
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SteveT,
I haven't completely discounted the FJR. It is my favorite of the bikes I have ridden. But as I said, the one I rode had a head shake, I see on the forums that head shake is not uncommon, so I have to figure out if there is a way to get one and be CERTAIN that it won't have that issue. Installing tapered roller bearings MAY be the answer. But how to be sure?
Don't know about an FJR, but my FJ 1200 is rock steady at 150. Its an older model (air cooled) but might be worth a look.
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Don't know about an FJR, but my FJ 1200 is rock steady at 150. Its an older model (air cooled) but might be worth a look.
Yep, can't kill 'me with an axe !
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Bugger! Meant to say, can't kill 'em with an axe ! I could probably be killed with an axe, but don't give anyone on the forum any ideas!
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I've got a 2015 FJR 1300A. About 12,000 miles on it. It started getting a shimmy on decal around 45 MPH when you would take hands off the bars. Started about 4,000 miles in and continued until I changed tires at 9,000 miles. I couldn't wait to get rid of the Bridgestones. Front started cupping real bad and was only comfortable straight up or way leaned over, had to hold it anywhere in between. All the suspension tweeking did no good. New tires solved the handling and shimmy issues. Got 3,000 miles on a set of cheap (Shinko Raven, cough cough) tire and bike will go into triple digits on grooved pavement and scrape its pegs and be rock steady doing either.
It is an "appliance", but an economical, comfortable and fast "appliance". I got it late in the season last year and got a pretty good deal as the 6 speed '16s were announced.
Good luck on your search. Oh screw it, just go get a Motus! We all want one!
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Is so very difficult. So many bikes have gotten so big and gaudy. Like mine. My wife looked at EVERYTHING. Not happy. Picked up a 2009 Versys 650 a couple of days ago that she is in love with. Go figure. Much zippier than the newer version.
And the DL1000 VStrom does seem a bit dull in comparison!
We rode so many different bikes and had this same "why bother" experience.
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Just curious but did you try the Honda Africa Twin or VFR1200X?
Seems like the VFRX would be a good candidate.
I know of three FJR owners who were very happy with theirs once they changed tires.
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FJ09 or Tiger 800
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FJ09 or Tiger 800
I don't know how well the FJ09 would fit the "two up" criteria. Don't know anything about the Tiger 800.
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This will get long, but the background is I have been a long time lover of motorcycling and find myself loving it more and more. I just returned from a 4000 mile trip to CA and am heading to ILL in a couple of weeks. Also, I have reached the stage in life where I can fortunately afford any motorcycle I want. So I have been shopping for "The One Bike to Rule Them All". It would replace the Triumph and the Suzuki in my signature, the Lemans stays.
My initial criteria (potentially subject to change)
-2 up and touring capable
-Sport tourer or ADV bike
-More power than my 650 vStrom (for passing and riding on the well known "closed tracks")
-Not too big (i.e. not a Goldwing)
-And, to keep this ramble from getting way too long, Japanese.
-Japanese because a) reliability, b) wider dealer networks and c) I would really like a LOCAL dealer (rules out everything non Japanese except KTM)
OK, so with that in mind, I have been shopping. And although I said Japanese, I haven't ignored BMW, KTM, Guzzi, Aprilia or Triumph but they are on the back burner for the reasons stated. Here is the odd thing I am finding, keeping in mind I can really get anything I want: There isn't anything I want!
Kawasaki Versys 1000 - sort of bland, bars seem too close, don't like the stock luggage. Kind of a Mazda CX-5 when a Lexus RX is more what I am thinking.
Suzuki vStrom 1000 - see Kawasaki above. Its OK, but these are both pretty basic bikes, kind of the crank window and manual door locks version on a modern motorcycle
Kawasaki Councors 1400 - A gigantic pig. And kind of outdated.
Yamaha - Aha! I am looking at Yamaha's and thinking I have found the holy grail. That Super Tenere looks really nice, and the FJR has had a stellar reputation in the sport touring circles for years.
So I ride the Super T. Nice bike - really nice. But the throttle response (it has two modes) is really snatchy in sport (s) mode. REALLY snatchy. Like gave me whiplash snatchy, the worst I have ever experienced by far. So I get on the forums and ask about it. The just of it is, yes it is snatchy and there is not really a fix. I was surprised at how many people said they just use the T mode (trail or touring?) to avoid the snatch. In T mode the bike might have as much zip as my 650 vStrom, maybe. It is a totally unacceptable situation IMO. OK, the FJR.
The FJR is a pretty sweet bike. One test ride and I am hooked. Second test ride just to make sure, not. I experienced head shake (tank slapper almost). Dealer takes the bike out and agrees, yes it has a head shake. I have ridden dozens of bikes and only once did I ever experience this (on a 1987 K100 that I sold because it had head shake that could not be fixed). All my Guzzi's have been rock solid, especially my Lemans. So, to the forums to see if this is a one off problem. Nope. Apparently all sorts of people have this issue with the much vaunted FJR. A fix might be to installed tapered roller headset bearings. Or not. This is not an acceptable condition to me (I detest head shake!) and I go away from the Yamaha dealer feeling like Yamaha is a company that doesn't know how to build a motorcycle that works. And this is a very unexpected feeling.
So Honda. Wow, I just can't see anything they make that is remotely interesting to me. They have built a wall between me and their products, and it is one butt ugly wall!
So here I sit, wanting a nice shiny new motorcycle - literally anything I can dream of - and thinking that 650 vStrom has been a really nice little bike. Why bother to replace it? This was not the outcome I was expecting...
Hmmmm. 2up comfortable, light adventure and can go some distance, not heavy... GTS Vespa 300. Won't do the ton but easily, comfortably goes pretty much anywhere you want it to. Supremely reliable and solidly built. Not very cheap but holds it value.
Just an alternative you may not have considered.
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I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants? Both the cam heads and the newer liquid cooled models are very satisfying rides.
Second this -- seems like these would be obvious candidates.
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I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants?...
:1: on this one. Two bikes ago I had an '09 650 Strom. A very good bike for my touring needs, particularly after I went through the suspension on both ends, and dependable as a stone. However, I wanted to try a Guzzi, so I bought a '12 Stelvio NTX. Also, a very good bike but, as I age, it was getting a bit heavy for me to handle safely.
So -- the Stelvio has been replaced by an '07 R1200R. It came to me with some very nice add-ons; Ohlins shocks, rear mounts for the Trax cases (like the Stelvio uses), a couple of windshield options and a heated Russell seat. It had seen 60K miles of roads but with some TLC through this past winter and it's ready to go.
It's a legitimate 100# lighter than the Stelvio (the main reason for the change), handles like a sport bike with cases, easy to work on with the exception of the electronics and used parts/accessories are readily available. The R Bikes could be used for two-up touring with a seat rebuild and an upgrade to the rear suspension. The newer versions have more power, particularly with the water cooled engine, but more power is certainly not necessary for good road performance.
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No such motorcycle, probably never will be.
You can play golf with just a 7 iron but no one does. They all have a big bag of clubs.
Don't get me started on my Fly Fishing Rods.
You just have to "go to the Darkside" and add to your stable or work on your Zen and accept what you cannot change.
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The 2 FJR'S I have had (one past, one present) have been rock solid. Agree with comments about tire choice, it is very important. Pirelli Angel GT's transformed the bike. The FJR burns the lowest octane gas, oil change in minutes and is the sweetest touring engine out there, liquid power on tap, very linear. Get above 7,000 rpm and it turns into a beast.
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I like the FJR, too. Great features and good looks don't make up for the headshake, but if new tires or tapered roller steering head bearings are all it needs it may be worth the trouble. Also, I've read that if your lube the Super Tenere's throttle mechanism with the right grease (I believe MCN recommended some kind of telephoto lens grease) the snatchiness goes away. All bikes require a bit of fettering to get them right for you...
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Thanks for the input on the FJR. I think it is a great machine, but the head shake issue is quite scary to me, because I HATE HEAD SHAKE. On the FJR forum, quite a few people admit to having it, but certainly not all. I have only ridden one and it had it. As I posted over there, in the last 30 years and probably 50 different motorcycles ridden (not all mine) I haven't experienced it on any other bike no matter what. 1 up, 2 up, luggage, no luggage, this tire that tire, fast, slow, you name it, no head shake. I thought it was a thing of the past. But the FJR folks talk about dialing I the suspension, buying new tires, setting the tire pressures just so, adjusting the head bearings ... I don't want a bike that is that finicky. I don't realize there even was a bike that was that finicky. Anyway, if there was a way I could get an FJR that Had no head shake my decision would be made
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Just curious but did you try the Honda Africa Twin or VFR1200X?
Seems like the VFRX would be a good candidate.
I know of three FJR owners who were very happy with theirs once they changed tires.
Ok, wait. VFR1200X. Didn't realize it existed. Supposed to appear in May, 2016 - which is quite soon!
Just read an Aussie review from 2014 (where I guess they got it first) and it sounds like a winner, but so did the Yamaha Super T and FJR until I rode them. Have to see one, and thanks.
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BMW R1200R is also going to get a closer look, but no nearby dealers.
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I had a dream about a Buick motorbike , wonderful thing , fast , light , good handling , stable , great fuel mileage , easy to service , comfortable , attractive . Talk about a lack of dealers though ... :laugh:
Dusty
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For Japanese bikes, I can only go by what the magazines say--ironically, I have more Guzzi dealers within 50 miles than I do Big Four!
And they all love the Ninja 1000, with the optional bags. And its sister bike, the Versys 1000. And the Yamaha FJ-09.
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Background- I was on an FJR for 6 years and loved it. The seat-peg relationship was starting to bug my knees. Bought a KTM 990 ADV and was sold on the ADV riding position. Sold the FJR and bought a Stelvio. Stelvio is my new touring rig and still rack up the miles.
Bikes I would consider (none sport-touring, sticking ADV)
Triumph Explorer- big and heavy. Nothing really stands out here other than it's a triple. Buddy has one, but is looking to move on. Does everything OK, nothing well.
Triumph 800- Nice mid-sized bike. Probably the best midsized ADV out there.
Yamaha Super T- Nice bike, people ride the crap out of them. Not overly exciting, oil filter sticking forward? really?
Honda VFR1200X- I would really look into this bike. Not so much AT it as INTO it... GREAT ENGINE in a package that finally suits it, more tour than ADV, DCT option, 127HP...new this year (here)
KTM- 1190, 1290, ADV and GT forms. This bike is a rocket on either flavor. All the pros and cons of KTM and chain drive, but you won't care. This will eat miles...quickly
Ducati Multistrada- They really got this bike right. It's pricey, but great to look at. Logs miles like crazy on the best engine Ducati made to date. It's crazy fast and comfortable. Not overly porky, either. I have a Diavel and would own a Multi if it were not for the duality of the Diavel engine/Stelvio usability in one bike. The service wasn't horrible as some claim (in my garage, with plenty of reading material and drinks).
The sport touring segment is starting to get loaded- FJR is nice, Connie is nice, Motus is spendy, Duc Multi crosses over, etc...
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Not sure about two-up, but the Honda VFR800 is one of the best all-around streetbikes from Japan. Supposedly, factory hard luggage is available and '14s and '15s are still around. This is one of the few Japanese bikes that truly interests me. It works well and has a great pedigree...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/3a16d4623da7e91a0dbc5534dd4418ac.jpg)
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I think a really good look at the R1200R plain Jane or Breva 1100 might fit the bill. Both bikes make a great platform for building a bike to fit you. So don't just buy it, make it!
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I don't know how well the FJ09 would fit the "two up" criteria. Don't know anything about the Tiger 800.
Power wise 2 up would be no problem.
Lots of luggage options for both
The pillion seats are broad and flat.
It all comes down to "fit"
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Ducati Multistrada- They really got this bike right. It's pricey, but great to look at. Logs miles like crazy on the best engine Ducati made to date. It's crazy fast and comfortable. Not overly porky, either. I have a Diavel and would own a Multi if it were not for the duality of the Diavel engine/Stelvio usability in one bike. The service wasn't horrible as some claim (in my garage, with plenty of reading material and drinks).
What he said...
Modern Ducatis are in their own class. Put a Scottoiler on it and Bob's your uncle.
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Ok, wait. VFR1200X. Didn't realize it existed. Supposed to appear in May, 2016 - which is quite soon!
Just read an Aussie review from 2014 (where I guess they got it first) and it sounds like a winner, but so did the Yamaha Super T and FJR until I rode them. Have to see one, and thanks.
Yep, I've been following them since the Crosstour came out overseas a few years ago. I like the engine. Would like to see what the windshield and such is like.
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I guess I should have mentioned in the above post that along with the FJR that I own I also have a KTM 1290 Super Adventure. That replaced the Stelvio that I put 50K miles on. It weighs in at 100 pounds lighter than the Stelvio. It has the most advance rider aids of any bike I have ever owned and they just flat work. At 5' 10" with a 30" inseam I can just about flat foot it, not only that I can wheel it around the garage without worrying about dropping it.
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I feel ya. I want to like Japanese bikes, since they are of good value and are pretty reliable, but...they lack something. I've owned one of each of the big 4 Japanese manufacturers and I've always wanted something else. I had a Honda Blackbird once, and it was fast and never had any problems and it looked pretty good. I now have a Norge. Its electrical shenanigans drive me nuts, and it's not nearly as fast as the Blackbird, but it has that ... je ne sais quoi.
I played the thought experiment of "If I had to own just one bike, what would it be?" and for my needs, I think the R1200RS would tick most of the boxes. It's not too heavy, has decent wind protection, decent cases, shaft drive, heated grips, ABS, TC, and cruise control. Perhaps that's worth checking out?
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FJ09 or Tiger 800
:thumb: tiger!
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You know, it's odd. If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels. In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine. It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes. Not at all relaxing. Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is. So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800. Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me). It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.
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Don't have the time to read thru all the posts so apologies if this has been offered.
I had owned nothing but Guzzi's for 40 years then I wanted something different & I wanted a local dealer so I ended up with a Victory.
I have a 2013 Cross Country Tour that I bought new less than 2 years ago, I have 35,000 miles on it & it is a low maintenance very dependable bike. This thing reminds me a lot of a Guzzi in that they have their own "gotta get used to this" quirks, things that every new owner always asks about but are easily solved.
The handling on this 800lb cruiser is amazing and it does not feel heavy at all. The storage capacity is huge & the saddle bags come off in less than a minute so they can be carried into a motel. After break in MPG should be around 35 to 40 actual (not what the computer tells you which is high by 5 to 10).
Maintenance is an oil change, that's all. Drive belts are lasting up to 80,000, tires are about 10,000 rear 20,000 front.
Did I mention handling? I love messing with the young sport bike crowd it is so much fun & then when we meet up at a gas station down the road they all think I'm some great rider but really it's the bike.
I have spent 8 hours in the saddle with only gas stops & have been perfectly comfortable.
There are loads of goodies for them including some crazy performance stuff.
I think the 2016 Cross Country Tour sells for 21,000 new but a two year old one will go for 14,000 or under.
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You know, it's odd. If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels. In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine. It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes. Not at all relaxing. Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is. So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800. Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me). It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.
If it can carry GuzzistaJohn and his gear up and down the Ozark Mountains for hundreds of miles without grenading, it is a GOOD engine!! :tongue: :laugh:
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If it can carry GuzzistaJohn and his gear up and down the Ozark Mountains for hundreds of miles without grenading, it is a GOOD engine!! :tongue: :laugh:
Damn , that's brutal Chris :evil: I've ridden the tigger in question , engine is powerful and willing .
Dusty
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You know, it's odd. If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels. In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine. It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes. Not at all relaxing. Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is. So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800. Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me). It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.
Alan,
My Triumph experience is getting old, but I enjoyed the nature of the T300 series 885 triples, and the T500 series 955 triples. I haven't ridden a 1050 or any of the small ones, 600/675/800.
I put 25000 miles on my 1998 Sprint Executive. Great engine. Nice Sport-Tourer. Really should've kept that bike. What little vibration it had was satisfying. I owned it before my LD days, but did have a few 600 mile days on it. It was torqey as Hell and had a wide powerband.
I rode several Girlie Tigers and 955 Daytonas. I really loved the Tigers, and thought about buying one. The Daytonas were strong, but I had the Sport 1100 and liked it better. I didn't really like the bar/seat/peg relationship on the 955 Daytona, and the tank was kind of wide between the knees.
While I like twins better, generally speaking, the Early Triumph triples were good fun.
The current big Triumphs just don't do anything for me. I know the 675s are really nice, but I don't really like smaller displacement multis.
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Chain drive. Ugh (ducking).
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You know, it's odd. If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels. In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine. It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes. Not at all relaxing. Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is. So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800. Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me). It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.
Hi alanp, it's clear that you are having a damn good look around and that should help you find the bike you want, although after a while I think you just begin to realise that all of them have something and none of them have everything. I reckon there's fundamentally two main streams of rider, those who like a bike for it's quirks ( character ?) let's say.......Guzzi, and the ones that see a "good" bike as an appliance that does the "job" well and never breaks down, (sorta like a plastic bucket), you don't realise what a good bucket it was 'till the handle breaks off, but remember IT'S STILL A PLASTIC BLOODY BUCKET !!! Let's say GTR 1400 Kawasaki or similar. You've had some decent bikes by the looks, so you know what's up when looking around. This forum exists because people like to buggerise around with imperfect Italian curiosities and that's where the fun is. Have a look at the Honda Gold Wing or FJR forum and I bet it doesn't have the flavour of this one, even though there's good flavours and bad! Don't over think it mate IMO, but I agree about the head shake thing, that's intolerable 'cos even when you reckon it's sorted, you're shitting yourself every time you see some bumps in a bend. If you can reach the ground and enjoy sitting in the shed with your mates looking at it and doing "improvements", then that's the one. No bike is wrong if you're creating memories on it ! Who knows ? It could end up being Russian !
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For non-subscribers, here is a partial list if Motorcycle Consumer News' evaluation list. Missing is the Yammy FJ-09, so I know it's a partial list, but I still have that issue, and they really thought it was a very good package. I would consider one, but I would have to accept a life of chain maintenance again.
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval.asp (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval.asp)
My current FJR tires are the Bridgestone Battlaxe T-30, a MUCH better tire that latest generation Mich. Pilot Roads. PR2 were great, 3 and 4 sucked.
Steve.
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FJ-09 seems to fit your initial criteria best. I would agree with the poster who suggested you try the new Ducati Multistrada. I haven't been on either bike so take it for what it's worth. Reviews are all I know but seem to match up ok with what you want.
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Hi
I have a Stelvio and a 79 Laverda Jota, they complement each other perfectly, so perhaps you might consider two bikes rather than one that does it all?
Good luck
Bottler
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Well, I started this so I better finish it. I test rode a Honda 1200x and it didn't do it for me. The engine was surprisingly lackluster and not as smooth as I expected. A nice bike overall, but not overwhelming. But if you go back to my original post, I did mention being smitten by the FJR I rode, but was put off by the head shake. I spent a ridiculous amount of time on FJR forums over the cold rainy spell here, and determined to my satisfaction that the head shake issue, while not uncommon, is not universal. I also learned a lot about the different years, models and particularly their suspensions. Conclusion: I purchased a new leftover 2015 FJR 1300A today for $13k. I got a test ride on it and, yeah, damn smitten. So I have to take back my disparaging comments about Yamaha. Hope fully I won't have to renig on my renig.
I will pick it up tomorrow.
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As a shameless plug, I will be selling all the motorcycles in my signature (except of course the Guzzi, which is the one you wanted). Anyway, PM me if interested.
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Congratulations, Alan! I hope it helps you cover many, many miles.
I haven't made too many changes to mine over time. I think the Gen III has redesigned seating vs. my Gen II, but I bought a Sargent just after purchase (which I use for daily use), and then a year or so later I sent the OEM seat to Russell for a DayLong rebuild. DayLong is right, ahhh...
I also changed the windshield to a Rifle shield, oversized from stock (4" wider, 6" taller, if I recall).
And a Helibar upper triple clamp replacement with their bar riser blocks. Sitting nice and relaxed now. My friend with the same bike, not a change, serves him perfectly.
Enjoy!
Steve.