Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cross-tie Walker on May 23, 2016, 10:17:28 PM
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Hi All,
I'm on a several day road trip and last night I discovered no headlight and no horn. I quickly discovered the 20 amp fuse controlling those had blown. I replaced it and put on another 400 miles today with no issues. My question to the experts is do these fuses just get old and wear out. (2007 Vintage) or should I be looking for a hidden reason for the problem. I was going through some almost torrential rain and wind on the southern Oregon coast that gives me some thought about that being the cause....but then again today I hit some pretty good rain, although not as heavy and everything is still lit and loud.
Any and all opinions welcome. Thx
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Yes they do get old .
Dusty
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Fuses can fatigue like any other electrical components.
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They might in a random sort of way, but I wouldn't consider them a replacement item like brake pads or spark plugs. More like a coil or regulator.
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Everything gets old, but do fuses wear or weaken. I don't think so, but I can't say it's not possible. All fuses have or should have a margin in excess of the rated current in that circuit. Most automobiles go to the bone yard with dozens of fuses that are 10 to 20 years old and never failed. I would maintain that when a fuse blows, something caused it other than it's old and worn out. You could replace it and it may never blow again, which might lead you to believe it was simply worn out, but a simple drop of water may have shorted that circuit. I would not start ripping anything apart looking for a cause until a second fuse has blown. At that point it's safe to say, you have an issue. If you have a good meter which reads current, you might want to see exactly how much current those lights are drawing, because they can draw more current than they did when new due to excessive resistance build up over time. Good luck. :boozing:
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Most blade fuses are a single stamped metal piece with plastic molded around it.
My original EV fuses had a metal blade on the left, one on the right, and the fuse element in the middle was staked to the two blades. Then a plastic piece was attached around it. I'd never seen anything like that. They were fragile and a couple of them just failed over the years from vibration and corrosion. I ended up replacing all of them with normal fuses.
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Yes they do get old but that's no reason to blow
I tend to agree with Ibis1, the fuse blew because of an overload.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_California_Vintage.gif
There's a lot of wiring on the red/black wire downstream of the headlight relay, possibly an intermittent short in the tail light or around the brake switches.
You may go years before blowing another or it could show up as a recurring fault, if it does I like to replace the fuse with a large lamp then wiggle all the
connections until I see the light flash, better than replacing numerous fuses.
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The older glass fuses did have problems sometimes with combinations of high loads (not overload) and vibration. Also, some of the really low capacity ones did not like vibrations.
The newer blade fuses should not create a problem like that. What could have happened is that the blade contact area became small due to corrosion or such, increasing resistance and heat. That little bit of increased heat could 'help' the fuse to blow if it was already near max.
Having said all that, I suspect you have an overload somewhere, or a short.
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The older glass fuses did have problems sometimes with combinations of high loads (not overload) and vibration. Also, some of the really low capacity ones did not like vibrations.
The newer blade fuses should not create a problem like that. What could have happened is that the blade contact area became small due to corrosion or such, increasing resistance and heat. That little bit of increased heat could 'help' the fuse to blow if it was already near max.
Having said all that, I suspect you have an overload somewhere, or a short.
I'll go with the corrosion theory, replace the fuse and forget about it *unless* it happens again. I've certainly seen fuses fail from corrosion. I'm pretty anal with corrosion with the Mighty Scura as it sits beside the ocean all the time. A few thousand miles ago, I coasted into a restaurant parking lot, dead as a doornail. Fortunately, I carry spare fuses. Never has happened again.
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With blade fuses the fuse can vibrate out and become loose, causing heat which would blow the fuse. If the bike were much older I would be concerned that the fuse holder had lost its spring and was making a loose connection. I have had that happen but it was on a 20 year old bike. Make sure when you install the fuse that it required some force which would intimate a tight connection.
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OMG! A FUSE THREAD!
I'd stick with the dino fuses!
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Synthetic fuses are over priced, still blow if you pass too much power through them..
:evil:
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Where do I send my old fuses for a 'fuse analysis' ??
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Where do I send my old fuses for a 'fuse analysis' ??
I think you are in jest, however looking at the blown fuse you can tell quite a bit.
Small gap, only a small overload
Large gap, short circuit
Discoloured plastic. loose connection
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My theory :rolleyes: would be that because a fuse by definition will run warm it will go through numerous heating/cooling cycles which MAY ultimately cause it to fatigue and blow at a lower voltage than indicated.
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I think you are in jest, however looking at the blown fuse you can tell quite a bit.
Small gap, only a small overload
Large gap, short circuit
Discoloured plastic. loose connection
No , he is in Tulsa :rolleyes: :laugh:
Sorry Roy :embarrassed:
About this fuses not getting old , not in the sense of a wear item as RK also said . However , as with any conductor , after long hours of use the conducting material can get a bit brittle . There was a 15 amp on my Jackal that blew at 106K miles , and now at 130K hasn't blown again .
Dusty
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So, does one change all the fuses in the fall when the riding season ends? Of do it in the spring, maybe St. Patrick's day when you plant your taters? I'm afraid my fuses will get old next winter :undecided:
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So, does one change all the fuses in the fall when the riding season ends? Of do it in the spring, maybe St. Patrick's day when you plant your taters? I'm afraid my fuses will get old next winter :undecided:
Depends , odd years Northern hemisphere , even years Southern . Of course someone will be along shortly to disagree :rolleyes:
Dusty
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There was a 15 amp on my Jackal that blew at 106K miles , and now at 130K hasn't blown again .
Dusty
Ha Dusty,
All the fuses on the Jackal are 15 Amps
The start fuse sees 40 to 45 Amps when starting, they will get hot in a split second, melt in 1/4 second if the starter solenoid hangs up a little. It should have been a 20 at least for a safety margin. :boozing:
Roy
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Geez. It's not rocket science. What Kiwi Roy said. Little splatter, small overload. Could be due to bad connections elsewhere in the loom. Big splatter. Possible fault.
With regard to fatigue, a fatigued fuse will go open circuit even with current within spec. Now to be clear, I've never myself seen one on a bike. I've found plenty on other equipment, which is outside the scope of this thread, but it's not say it can't happen. Dusty's example. A fatigued fuse will usually go open at or near the end of the filament, with very little or no indication (splatter).
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So, does one change all the fuses in the fall when the riding season ends? Of do it in the spring, maybe St. Patrick's day when you plant your taters? I'm afraid my fuses will get old next winter :undecided:
You must replace all your fuses under the light of a blue moon, on Walpurgis night while holding a black dove in your right hand.
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You must replace all your fuses under the light of a blue moon, on Walpurgis night while holding a black dove in your right hand.
Holy shart! I hope my fuses make it that long. Now............wher e did I put that black dove?
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Ha Dusty,
All the fuses on the Jackal are 15 Amps
The start fuse sees 40 to 45 Amps when starting, they will get hot in a split second, melt in 1/4 second if the starter solenoid hangs up a little. It should have been a 20 at least for a safety margin. :boozing:
Roy
Well of course , I was just giving an example from experience .
Geez. It's not rocket science. What Kiwi Roy said. Little splatter, small overload. Could be due to bad connections elsewhere in the loom. Big splatter. Possible fault.
With regard to fatigue, a fatigued fuse will go open circuit even with current within spec. Now to be clear, I've never myself seen one on a bike. I've found plenty on other equipment, which is outside the scope of this thread, but it's not say it can't happen. Dusty's example. A fatigued fuse will usually go open at or near the end of the filament, with very little or no indication (splatter).
Nothing is outside the scope of WG :laugh:
My point was that yes , fuses can and do fatigue with age . Unusual for one to fail , but it can happen .
Dusty
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It's all Ben Franklins fault, the electrons are confused
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-1/conventional-versus-electron-flow/
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Thanks for making me even more con(fuse)d Roy :tongue:
Dusty
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Well, I can't resist any longer - have to add my thoughts to this (as a one-time physics teacher and another stint as an electronics tech).
A fuse is basically like a light bulb - but with a very thick filament that is designed to hold up for a long time unless conditions exceed its design. Like any filament, the wire in a fuse is undergoing constant low-level stress even when conditions in the circuit are normal. Eventually, a fuse can fail due to this (as well as vibration when in a vehicle).
If an old fuse blows, replace it and keep an eye out for a while. If it blows a second time, you've got reason to start checking for all the things that can cause problems, like failing components, corroded connections, and so on.
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Well, I can't resist any longer - have to add my thoughts to this (as a one-time physics teacher and another stint as an electronics tech).
A fuse is basically like a light bulb - but with a very thick filament that is designed to hold up for a long time unless conditions exceed its design. Like any filament, the wire in a fuse is undergoing constant low-level stress even when conditions in the circuit are normal. Eventually, a fuse can fail due to this (as well as vibration when in a vehicle).
If an old fuse blows, replace it and keep an eye out for a while. If it blows a second time, you've got reason to start checking for all the things that can cause problems, like failing components, corroded connections, and so on.
You seem to be fairly knowledgeable, what does the black dove have to do with this?
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Depends , odd years Northern hemisphere , even years Southern . Of course someone will be along shortly to disagree :rolleyes:
Dusty
As one out of left field on the backside of the planet I do neither. I carry a selection of fuses in a small container in my riding jacket. As a result of this I have never needed to use one. :rolleyes: 12 years and counting. :grin:
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As one out of left field on the backside of the planet I do neither. I carry a selection of fuses in a small container in my riding jacket. As a result of this I have never needed to use one. :rolleyes: 12 years and counting. :grin:
Like the spare beemer clutch cable I carried around for years , never a problem until of course leaving it at home . Broke the cable on the bike 1,000 miles from home , and 500 miles from any dealer . Bodged a solution involving a small U clamp , but still ...
Dusty
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I've had the same spare throttle cable wire tied to the working ones on the cx for prolly 15 years.
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You seem to be fairly knowledgeable, what does the black dove have to do with this?
Nothing to do with the aging - only relates to the effective replacement!
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Like the spare beemer clutch cable I carried around for years , never a problem until of course leaving it at home . Broke the cable on the bike 1,000 miles from home , and 500 miles from any dealer . Bodged a solution involving a small U clamp , but still ...
Dusty
Thread drift. On my old Matchy I broke the throttle cable in a similar position. Tied a loop in the end and put my forearm through it.. Straighten arm = go, bend arm = stop. Not vey controllable but it worked. :cheesy:
Back to thread. The Matchy never had fuses. Just replace the Lucas Smoke every now and then. :rolleyes:
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Muzz , riders of old English iron needed a spare gallon of Lucas Smoke (TM) in stock all the time :laugh:
Dusty
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Hope johnr isn't reading this; he used to work for Lucas in their motorcycle division. He is a bit sensitive about The Prince of Darkness. :wink:
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Ssshhh, my Lario has Lucas electrics
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Hope johnr isn't reading this; he used to work for Lucas in their motorcycle division. He is a bit sensitive about The Prince of Darkness. :wink:
John has pretty thick skin ... I hope :laugh: Seriously , until the Japanese and Germans began to build some motorbikes that didn't vibrate like paint can shakers no electrical systems were very reliable . The Lucas designs weren't bad , given that the British car and MC builders wanted Lucas , (and Amal , Wipac , etc) to almost give their products away .
Dusty
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I can state unequivocally there is NO thrill quite like riding a Lucas-equipped bike at night through a curve when the running lights auto-extinguish!
It was a first lesson in navigating by the moon and stars..... :wink:
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Muzz , riders of old English iron needed a spare gallon of Lucas Smoke (TM) in stock all the time :laugh:
Dusty
Just in case you run out, the Land Rover Part# is LRSMK001 and we stock it in 55 gallon drums as well! :boozing:
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Just in case you run out, the Land Rover Part# is LRSMK001 and we stock it in 55 gallon drums as well! :boozing:
So is the Land Rover smoke compatible with Jaguar ?
Dusty
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So is the Land Rover smoke compatible with Jaguar ?
Dusty
Same exact smoke, just a different label. Some guy once told me Jag smoke leaks out faster, I told him I think he's full of SHI? :boozing:
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Of course, if you translate 'Lucas' into Italian, it comes out as 'Moto Morelli'! :evil:
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Of course, if you translate 'Lucas' into Italian, it comes out as 'Moto Morelli'! :evil:
They do use a different smoke though. Do NOT use the Jaguar/Land Rover smoke in those vehicles, it will destroy the modules! :boozing:
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You guys are busting me up, Lucas "The Prince", Morelli :evil: My 6T and the Ambo resemble those remarks.
BTW: What was this thread about? :grin:
Tom
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Just in case you run out, the Land Rover Part# is LRSMK001 and we stock it in 55 gallon drums as well! :boozing:
That would be 44 Gallon drums, imperial gallons remember, they are smokier.
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You must replace all your fuses under the light of a blue moon, on Walpurgis night while holding a black dove in your right hand.
I got yer blue moon and all that dovy stuff right here. Copy and print as needed.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dUYtdv/blue_moon2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dUYtdv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dzSKJv/10_6_15_1_dumb.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dzSKJv)
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Here is a link to my info page on Lucas electrics:
http://tinyurl.com/z258lrz
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BTW: What was this thread about? :grin:
Tom
Lucas makes fuses....... :evil: (or used to anyway :undecided:)
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OMG,
That's baaaaaddddd!! :thumb:
Tom
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Hope johnr isn't reading this; he used to work for Lucas in their motorcycle division. He is a bit sensitive about The Prince of Darkness. :wink:
Too late Muzz!! Too late!
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INCOMMING!!!! :grin:
oops
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I made this video last year as a response to fuse requirements for vintage British bikes.... It may apply here...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75289626@N08/16217925418/in/dateposted-public/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75289626@N08/16217925418/in/dateposted-public/)
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INCOMMING!!!! :grin:
oops
Yep!! And here she goes :thewife:
When looking at motorcycle systems and design there are a couple of things that should be taken into consideration. They are firstly the technology and materials available at the time and secondly, just what was it intended to do.
Lucas designed and built great and good quality equipment for motorcycles given the time of manufacture. Looking back on these things I have come to believe that simplest was often the best and most reliable.
For example, My 1950 BSA Gold Flash had a six-volt system that was very reliable once it had been returned to as good as new condition. I bought another one of these bikes years later as a parts donor for mine which had come to very serious grief. I started using it, but first I re-wired it and installed a brand new proper motorcycle light unit (to replace the old yellowed car one) and fitted with the appropriate bulb. (18w x18w vertical dip vibration resistant) It also got the fully reconditioned generator of my original Gold Flash. It put out more light than a brand new car in the next lane at the testing station. The testers could not believe it!
This and similar machines could have their entire wiring lose all its smoke (love that expression) and still you could ride it as normal. Why? Because these machines were fitted with Magnetos! A wondrous self contained reliable device for making a spark at the plug at the right time and nothing else. They tended not to be fooled with by owners too, which probably helped quite a lot.
These days you are on the side of the road talking to your dealer if your freeking Speedo craps out!
Lucas though could see which way the world was turning. To supply the ever increasing demand for electrical power on motor cycles the generator was going to have to get way too big. As a result they designed an alternator system for them. This was first applied to a production Triumph in 1954.
Wait What? That was years before Solid state Diodes or Transistors had even remotely come on stream. How on earth were they going to control this thing? Well they did it through switching. This wasn't the best way but it was the best they could do with the technology at the time.
It produced a complicated wiring system that while it worked, went belly up if the average motorcyclist of the day, who didn't like wires all over his machine, so much as looked at it sideways. It was this system that earned them their "Prince of Darkness" moniker. The problem was they were just a few years ahead of their time.
Most manufacturers stayed with generator systems right up into the late 1960s for this reason. One of the last to convert was guess who? Moto Guzzi. Check out the size of the generator on a 1970 V7! It was a full size car one!
The thing is you can nearly always fix a fault with the generator system 'on the side of the road' so to speak, or at least with minimal help and technology. Good luck, though, especially in those days, finding a rectifier on your trip through Mongolia.
Once solid state rectifiers and Zenor Diodes came into play we had a simple reliable system again, though a little more complex than the old generator one, but one that was much more powerful than the by then venerable 6v 60watt generator.
Generators are still a good reliable way to supply electricity on systems where size is not an issue and are often used in such to this day.
I can honestly say that nearly all the problems I had to solve while working for Lucas were as a result of old age and neglect and/or systems being fooled with by owners who had neither the knowledge nor the skills.
There were exceptions of course, like the guy who was looking for a strange collection of electrical parts. He had been following his mates tail light one night. His mate missed a corner and sailed off a cliff into a river. The guy following, just kept doing it. Splash!
While I was there we also did a roaring trade in Lucas light units and Girling Shock absorbers for Japanese bikes. Japan appeared to be incapable of making either at that time. Their wiring systems at that time were a huge step backwards as well, but there was little that could be reasonably done about that.
I had a little side earner going re wiring bikes in those days, but I wouldn't touch a Japper. For starters I couldn't read the Japanese writing on all the little gizmos they wired in to try and make it work.
Frankly, though I was no longer working for them, I was sad when Lucas went down. The loss of resource to the public was immense as it either owned or was the distribution company for a lot of other companies. It was a one-stop shop for Girling/Lockheed, Siba(sp?) (who made mainly very high end searchlights like the ones found on fire engines up to warships.) CAV, Simms diesel, Zenith Stromberg and Solex carbs in NZ anyway, and so on.
Any questions? :laugh:
Fuses.
Now then, Fuses do have a life albeit a long one under ideal conditions. The thing is they have two ratings. The "This will blow it" rating, and a "continuous load" rating.
So a 15amp Lucas fuse is intended to blow if 15+amps is fed through it. How ever if loaded less than the 15amps but more than it's continuous rating (much lower. See chart below) continuously, it will shorten the life of a fuse by quite a substantial amount.
Now this, due to a misplaced key stab is the second time I written up this blurb. The first time was much more entertaining but was being done from memory alone, but this time I decided to check my facts on the way they are rated.
Guess what! It's different in the US to the way it's done in England! Of course it is! (Cantankerous yanks! Even drive on the wrong side! They rate petrol in a unique way too) :rolleyes:
The English (read Lucas ) way is to rate a fuse by it's "blow me now" ampage whilst the US method is to rate them by their "continuous load" rating.
Edit.
A memory stirred at this. On checking it out I found that later Lucas fuses had both ratings on them to avoid confusion.
You really would not want to get these confused. If you did you could easily get a situation where the fuse held while the wiring burned!
Here is the chart.
I can't vouch for the veracity of this chart and I do have some doubts about it. I note that in all cases the continuous rating is shown as 1/2 the 'fast blow rating. I have a feeling that that is a bit arbitrary and that the continuous rating should be higher than that.
British Lucas Fuse ~ American BUSS Fuse
Fast Blow Dual Rating ~ Continuous (AGC) Alternate Opinion (SFE ?)
50 amp 25/50 amp ~ 25 amp 25 amp SFE
35 amp 17/35 amp ~ 17 amp 20 amp SFE
30 amp 15/30 amp ~ 15 amp 15 amp SFE (too short ?)
25 amp 12/25 amp ~ 12 amp 15 amp SFE (too short ?)
20 amp 10/20 amp ~ 10 amp
15 amp 7.5/15 amp ~ 8 amp
10 amp 5 /10 amp ~ 5 amp
5 amp 2.5 / 5 amp ~ 3 amp
2 amp 1 / 2 amp ~ 1 amp
I have absolutely no idea how the Italians or other Europeans do it, but I intend to find out.
At the end of the day I carry spare fuses.
If one blows for no obvious reason I will put it down to the 'Will Of Allah' (the great blower of fuses) and replace it.
If it blows again either immediately or shortly there after that indicates a fault in that circuit that will need to be found before it's used again.
Another 'Deep sigh' (we need an emoticon for that) about simple systems. The Gold Flash only had one fuse. So did the Rocket 3, though had I kept it it would have got a second one. One for the lighting and one for the ignition.
Another word about Lucas reliability. In all the 37 years I owned the Rocket 3 I only recall ever blowing a fuse once. It was a 15 amp one and occurred through uncontrolled charging current. (The Zenor had shorted out on the clutch cable)
I must admit however to going through a few Zenors (on occasion due to corrosion, but usually just on spec) and a few rectifiers.
IMHO the rectifier was the weakest point in this system which started to show up on the triples as they had a higher output alternator than other Lucas equipped bikes. The cooling of the rectifier could have been improved with better placement too. I solved the problem by fitting two of them in parallel.
venting done :coffee:
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I'm gonna need more :coffee: and read that again Johnr :laugh:
Actually , what John is saying has also been my experience , that 1/2 wave plate rectifier is the weak link . Heck , even if had just been isolation mounted to keep the vibration at bay they probably would have been fine .
Now John , let's do be honest , the old Lucas fixed magnet mags could be a bit of a pain , but damn did they throw a fat hot spark .
Dusty
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Now John , let's do be honest , the old Lucas fixed magnet mags could be a bit of a pain , but damn did they throw a fat hot spark .
Dusty
If something had to be done to them yes. You needed to know what you were doing or it was best left to an expert. Fortunately they usually had to be very old before anything needed doing, and then it was usually just bearings, pick up brush and maybe pick up rotor and or points.
The main difference between a magneto and coil ignition was that the faster you ran a mag the better it went. The opposite was true for coil ignition. It meant though that a mag fired bike was producing it's weakest spark when you were trying to start it.
Having said that, when I rebuilt a 1953 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet I owned for a few years I took the mag in to be rebuilt with encapsulated coils. The auto Electrician I took it to sent it off to a crowd in Wellington that does aircraft mags. When I got it back I checked it by turning it over slowly by hand. No less than 2" of fat blue spark was the result! That was good enough for me!
There is a lot to be said for magnetos. The early Norton Commandos even had a space to put one if that was your preference.
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also been my experience , that 1/2 wave plate rectifier is the weak link . Heck , even if had just been isolation mounted to keep the vibration at bay they probably would have been fine .
Dusty
I think they were under cooled too Dusty.
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I think they were under cooled too Dusty.
I agree .
Dusty
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Hope johnr isn't reading this; he used to work for Lucas in their motorcycle division. He is a bit sensitive about The Prince of Darkness. :wink:
Actually Muzz, There wasn't any official motor cycle division in Lucas, at least in New Zealand. It just so happened that in the parts department I was the only bloke that knew anything about them, so I became 'It' for anything to do with them.
While in effect I was Lucas NZ motorcycles all by myself this was not officially recognised and was not reflected in my pay packet. They were getting far more from me though than could be expected from an ordinary Storeman.
I was even most of the way through writing a Girling motorcycle parts list that would have allowed them to reduce stock while still being able to supply as before when things ended.
In the end, because of this disparity I started losing interest in the Firm. If I had spent the night in Hamilton with my girlfriend and was faced with a 74 mile ride to work in the rain at 6am in the morning, well I started missing days at work.
Such a thing has a natural conclusion. I was fired, but when I turned up later in that day to collect my pay I was called into the Personal Managers office. He had found a job for me with a sub agent.
Actually, during that time I seriously considered going out on my own as a mail order motor cycle electrical supply outfit and form a supply line for MC shops and individuals. . This would extend to non Lucas gear and I envisaged ultimately have a workshop too. It depended though on being able to import Lucas motorcycle stuff at the same cost as Lucas could and not be in competition with the parent company.
All motor cycle stuff was slow moving stock for Lucas and when I discussed the idea with them they were delighted for me to take the line from them. How ever we had import licencing in those days and they were not prepared to give up that amount of their licence. The idea fell by the wayside.
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I made this video last year as a response to fuse requirements for vintage British bikes.... It may apply here...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75289626@N08/16217925418/in/dateposted-public/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75289626@N08/16217925418/in/dateposted-public/)
Well you have a fuse that can carry more amps than the wires feeding it so the wires burn. Aaahh... yes? I don't quite get the point?
I mean in any system the wiring has a certain amount of amps that it has to carry.
You don't need wires that carry any more than that baring a suitable safety margin.
You then bung in a fuse that will blow before the wires do.
So your video demonstrates what happens in a straight short with gigamungous fuse in the line.
Is that the point? Don't use fuses of higher ampage than required?
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John, it's sarcasm in response to the constant wiring issues some have with old British bikes and the well worn Lucas jokes......When I used a short length of 16 gauge wire the 40 amp fuse blew immediately on a bolted short...I added more wire and resistance till it smoked...
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Oh, Ok, I understand... I think?
Look at that? We have an entertaining thread bubbling away nicely then along comes me with a run off at the finger tips and it all goes dead! I might have to curb that tendency.
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John , seriously don't believe the thread going cold has anything to do with you . Heck , your unique insight is fascinating , I grew up on Lucas 'lectrics , only met one other person who worked for the company , and she claimed no knowledge :laugh:
Dusty